Is Apple going to make a bluray disk supported MacBook Pro

[SarcasticJoe]

Sony basically tried to make Apple bend over and screw over their customers really bad by demanding that Apple would have to embed DRM right into the OSX kernel if they wanted to have Blu-ray on their machines. Steve Jobs, who was still alive and well at the time, basically told Sony that they weren't going to have it and just dropped the idea altogether.

More probably than not, it was all just a plot on Sony's side to stop Apple from being able to put Blu-ray drives into their laptops and thus keep the competive edge stemming from their laptops having them. I don't think this was a very smart move considering Sony has been complaining about Blu-ray uptake has not been anywhere near as big as they had anticipated and people are now moving away from physical media.

 

[roadbloc]

The answer is no. Apple seem to think that disc storage is redundant and that nobody uses it. Couldn't be further from the truth but there appears to be no changing their mind on it.

 

[Nermal]

Hi, as you referred Macgo player, may I ask what happened when you use Macgo Blu-ray player? Could you please offer some more clues? We are here to help you solve out.

An example is with "The Winter Soldier": Some parts are in French. If you don't turn on subtitles then you get nothing. If you turn them on then you get subtitles for the English parts too. It doesn't seem that your software can automatically switch the subtitles off and on like a standalone player does.

[Edit: At the other end of the scale is 崖の上のポニョ (Ponyo), where the subtitles kept turning themselves off. The third time that this happened I gave up.]

I've also had issues in the past with movies that wouldn't play at all, but I haven't run into any recently so that might be fixed now

 

[UBS28]

We got retina displays but can't take full advantage of it because Apple won't support Blu-ray. iTunes movie quality isn't as good.

 

[SarcasticJoe]

The answer is no. Apple seem to think that disc storage is redundant and that nobody uses it. Couldn't be further from the truth but there appears to be no changing their mind on it.

You may be right when it comes to distribution of film and tv-shows, but if you don't count consoles, software is pretty much an all digital affair these days.

Just look at Microsoft's Office, at retail apart from the old 2011 edition they'll only sell you a code for a 1 year subscription to an online service called Office 365 rather than an application that runs locally and comes on a physical disc.

With consoles the only reason why physical copies are so common is that they still need retail to push the consoles themsevles and retailers don't exactly like selling a console that doesn't get them return business (i.e people come back to buy games). Thus they have to price digial downloads the same or higher than physical copies even thou digital downloads cost them lot less. One German retailer flat out refused to stock the digital download only PSP Go just because it was an all digital download console.

We got retina displays but can't take full advantage of it because Apple won't support Blu-ray. iTunes movie quality isn't as good.

At 1080p blu-ray is hardly taking "full advantage" of Apple's "retina" screens. Maybe blu-ray's successor/expansion with the capacity for full movies in 4k will, but some people say that's basically dead in the water with how physical media is selling less and less.

 

[roadbloc]

You may be right when it comes to distribution of film and tv-shows, but if you don't count consoles, software is pretty much an all digital affair these days.

I live in an area where you can't even get 1 megabit download speeds. Downloading stuff really isn't an option unless you're okay waiting 1-2 weeks for it. Downloading may be awesomely convenient in areas of great coverage, but in the areas where coverage is weak, it is a downright pain.

Now until Google gets on with its plan to have internet hot air balloons or whatever, the only real option in mine and many other areas around the world is to get media on discs. Because you may just die of old age waiting for something to download. (For example, Wolfenstien New Order took a whole 1.5 months to download for me. And the only reason I had to download it is because the local CEX weren't selling any disc copies.)

 

[SarcasticJoe]

I live in an area where you can't even get 1 megabit download speeds. Downloading stuff really isn't an option unless you're okay waiting 1-2 weeks for it. Downloading may be awesomely convenient in areas of great coverage, but in the areas where coverage is weak, it is a downright pain.

Now until Google gets on with its plan to have internet hot air balloons or whatever, the only real option in mine and many other areas around the world is to get media on discs. Because you may just die of old age waiting for something to download. (For example, Wolfenstien New Order took a whole 1.5 months to download for me. And the only reason I had to download it is because the local CEX weren't selling any disc copies.)

I suppose that's just what you have to put up with if you live in a REALLY rural area... However the vast majority of the population in industrialized countries live in cities or towns, where high speed internet is usually available. Even with the majority of the world's population being in less developed countries, over 50% of the world's population already lives in cities.

 

[Macgosoftware]

Reply to Nermal

An example is with "The Winter Soldier": Some parts are in French. If you don't turn on subtitles then you get nothing. If you turn them on then you get subtitles for the English parts too. It doesn't seem that your software can automatically switch the subtitles off and on like a standalone player does.

[Edit: At the other end of the scale is 崖の上のポニョ (Ponyo), where the subtitles kept turning themselves off. The third time that this happened I gave up.]

I've also had issues in the past with movies that wouldn't play at all, but I haven't run into any recently so that might be fixed now

Hi! As to your subtitle issue, could you help us to check whether your other Blu-ray discs have the same turning off issue?
We are unable to repeat the issue during testing discs.
The latest version is 2.10.6, please help to have a try again:
http://www.macblurayplayer.com/user/download/Mac_Bluray_Player.dmg

Thanks for your assistance!

 

[yjchua95]

I suppose that's just what you have to put up with if you live in a REALLY rural area... However the vast majority of the population in industrialized countries live in cities or towns, where high speed internet is usually available. Even with the majority of the world's population being in less developed countries, over 50% of the world's population already lives in cities.

I was based in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, for the better part of last year and earlier this year and high speed internet doesn't really exist even in the city centre. You're lucky if you can get 2 Mbps there.

Now that I've moved down to Melbourne, Australia (and will stay there for the next few years), high speed internet is everywhere. It was a huge relief to get out of KL.

Meanwhile, my hometown of Queenstown, NZ, doesn't have fast internet either, but then, it's in the mountains.

 

[Wolfpup]

Sony basically tried to make Apple bend over and screw over their customers really bad by demanding that Apple would have to embed DRM right into the OSX kernel if they wanted to have Blu-ray on their machines. Steve Jobs, who was still alive and well at the time, basically told Sony that they weren't going to have it and just dropped the idea altogether.

Apple's made excuses bordering along those lines, but they make no sense. First it's the film industry that wants DRM, and they already have it in iTunes to support being able to rent stuff there. And Apple was one of the first members of the Blu Ray committee or whatever it's called. I had ASSUMED that would mean they'd be one of the first with Blu Ray, and was shocked when they weren't. They've thrown away sales of Mac Minis for years because of that too (and now ditching the 10 foot interface on top of that).

Just look at Microsoft's Office, at retail apart from the old 2011 edition they'll only sell you a code for a 1 year subscription to an online service called Office 365 rather than an application that runs locally and comes on a physical disc.

Just FYI the Office subscription service DOES run locally, it's just licensed differently. But you don't have to do that, a regular purchase of Office makes more sense IMO, except maybe in some particular situations. Not a fan of how Microsoft has been trying to push software as a service though.

With consoles the only reason why physical copies are so common is that they still need retail to push the consoles themsevles and retailers don't exactly like selling a console that doesn't get them return business (i.e people come back to buy games).

There's also the problem that they'd make the platforms worthless...there'd be no reason not to just do the same thing on PCs. The only thing the consoles have going for them now is that you can actually buy most games on them. (Versus pretty much just GOG on PCs.)

At 1080p blu-ray is hardly taking "full advantage" of Apple's "retina" screens.

Point is it's taking better advantage than anything else is. You've got this crazy high resolution display on some Macs, and then they try to push you to this DRMed up store with low quality video? Blu Ray and for that matter broadcast TV take WAAAAAAY better advantage of the screens than that.

 

[SarcasticJoe]

Apple's made excuses bordering along those lines, but they make no sense. First it's the film industry that wants DRM, and they already have it in iTunes to support being able to rent stuff there. And Apple was one of the first members of the Blu Ray committee or whatever it's called. I had ASSUMED that would mean they'd be one of the first with Blu Ray, and was shocked when they weren't. They've thrown away sales of Mac Minis for years because of that too (and now ditching the 10 foot interface on top of that).

Apple hasn't direct made any excuses except for Jobs calling blu-ray licensing a "bag of hurt" when a journalist asked about it after a keynote. The talk about embedding it into the kernel was actually leaked after Jobs made that comment. As for being in the Blu-ray forum, it really doesn't mean anything, you still have to license it from Sony even thou on paper it's from the forum.

Sony is sort of playing both sides as they have both a music and film arm, so it's completely feasible that this division had a hand in not only creating the DRM in the blu-ray standard, but putting it in as a requirement for licensing the tech. This basically makes it two good reasons why Sony would demand things they know Apple won't stand for. After all, Apple's global market share (in sold machines, not revenue before anyone brings up those figures) is well below 10% and that still leaves 90% of the market where Sony can embed all kinds of nasty DRM into the drivers. We are after all talking about the same company that embedded rootkits onto music CD's.

There's also the problem that they'd make the platforms worthless...there'd be no reason not to just do the same thing on PCs. The only thing the consoles have going for them now is that you can actually buy most games on them. (Versus pretty much just GOG on PCs.)

It wouldn't make the platform worthless, it would instead make the platform more popular the same way Steam practically ressurrected PC gaming. Just look how nobody buys physical copies of PC games anymore even thou they're still available.

Point is it's taking better advantage than anything else is. You've got this crazy high resolution display on some Macs, and then they try to push you to this DRMed up store with low quality video? Blu Ray and for that matter broadcast TV take WAAAAAAY better advantage of the screens than that.

I don't know if you've been watching movies in 720p or something, but iTunes IS ahead of broadcast TV, which is still mostly 480 or 720p last time I checked. Sure, it doesn't quite compare to blu-ray's due to a lot of people not having the capacity to stream 1080p with blu-ray level encoding, but it's not bad by any means.

 

[Wolfpup]

Apple hasn't direct made any excuses except for Jobs calling blu-ray licensing a "bag of hurt" when a journalist asked about it after a keynote.

Which remains a pathetic joke. If making an OS is too hard for you, it's time to leave the market. Oh, but wait, what's this? They rent their own movies? Hmm...

As for being in the Blu-ray forum, it really doesn't mean anything, you still have to license it from Sony even thou on paper it's from the forum.

It's not Sony, it's a bunch of companies including Sony. I can't remember who all but Microsoft's another one, as is the MPEG group, etc.

Sony is sort of playing both sides as they have both a music and film arm, so it's completely feasible that this division had a hand in not only creating the DRM in the blu-ray standard, but putting it in as a requirement for licensing the tech. This basically makes it two good reasons why Sony would demand things they know Apple won't stand for.

It's true Sony's on both sides now, but it's still the film industry as a whole that wants things like HDCP and the like, and Blu Ray's programmable and lets publishers stick more inane DRM on it if they want.

It's not alone...there are requirements for streaming Netflix and probably everything else that the pathways have to be protected. The same stuff would exist in/for iTunes too. Jobs just wanted to push his own rental store and so ludicrously whined about how making an OS was so very hard. Not something a person in charge of an OS company should be doing, but most people probably didn't hear it or if they did didn't get how ludicrous that was.

and that still leaves 90% of the market where Sony can embed all kinds of nasty DRM into the drivers. We are after all talking about the same company that embedded rootkits onto music CD's.

That was indeed incredibly lame, but that's not what's going on with Blu Ray, and no Sony software of any sort is even required to play back Blu Ray.

It wouldn't make the platform worthless, it would instead make the platform more popular the same way Steam practically ressurrected PC gaming. Just look how nobody buys physical copies of PC games anymore even thou they're still available.

They're very rarely available though. If you want to buy retail, you have to do a ton of research ahead of time to see what kind of DRM if any is on the game. It's a giant pain trying to deal with that. THAT'S what's been killing that market, not Steam per se. Half the "retail" games are essentially just Steam codes anyway, with a huge percent more just codes for other equivalent systems.

I don't know if you've been watching movies in 720p or something, but iTunes IS ahead of broadcast TV, which is still mostly 480 or 720p last time I checked.

It isn't even close to broadcast. Nothing beats it or even gets close save for Blu Ray. My NBC broadcast is over 2MB/s. That's two MEGABYTES, not bits. Nothing beats that save for Blu Ray.

 

[SarcasticJoe]

Which remains a pathetic joke. If making an OS is too hard for you, it's time to leave the market. Oh, but wait, what's this? They rent their own movies? Hmm...

It's not about it being too difficult to implement, it's all about licensing. There's a reason why companies that make software that's used to rip content off blu-ray discs and break the copy protection are registered in places where Sony can't get to them. Sony naturally won't grant them a license, so they have to be registered where Sony can't sue the pants off them and doing this kind of thing is not going to be possible for Apple.

It's not Sony, it's a bunch of companies including Sony. I can't remember who all but Microsoft's another one, as is the MPEG group, etc.

Being in the blu-ray forum really means nothing when it comes to the control of the standard. You literally HAVE to be in the forum to even be able to licese the standard.

It's true Sony's on both sides now, but it's still the film industry as a whole that wants things like HDCP and the like, and Blu Ray's programmable and lets publishers stick more inane DRM on it if they want.

The film industry is EXACTLY why we have DRM and HDCP. If you let the tech industry run it's course and develop it's own stuff you get things like DVI and DisplayPort. HDMI is basically DVI with a simpler plug, better audio (DVI can carry audio as well) and an option for HDCP. HDCP would literally not exist if it wasn't for film studio bosses being afraid of people making pirate copies of films with a trick simiar to when people made pirate copies of VHS cassettes with two VCR's.

It's not alone...there are requirements for streaming Netflix and probably everything else that the pathways have to be protected. The same stuff would exist in/for iTunes too. Jobs just wanted to push his own rental store and so ludicrously whined about how making an OS was so very hard. Not something a person in charge of an OS company should be doing, but most people probably didn't hear it or if they did didn't get how ludicrous that was.

I don't know what you're talking about with this "an OS is so hard to make"-babble, but the reality is that Apple tried licensing blu-ray, however Sony intentionally sabotaged it so that they could sell more Vaio notebooks with blu-ray drives.

That was indeed incredibly lame, but that's not what's going on with Blu Ray, and no Sony software of any sort is even required to play back Blu Ray.

Sony software is not required, but a license from them, or rather their proxy, IS required unless you want to get sued to oblivion.

They're very rarely available though.

Stores generally also stock PC games if they stock console games... The only place where you see only console games on store shelves is in asia where PC games are mostly played in web cafe's and billing is done based on how many hours you've played.

They're very rarely available though.

If you want to buy retail, you have to do a ton of research ahead of time to see what kind of DRM if any is on the game. It's a giant pain trying to deal with that. THAT'S what's been killing that market, not Steam per se.[/QUOTE]
PC retail sales went down the toilet well before infamos DRM solutions like SecuROM started becoming a pain in the ass by doing things like breaking disc drives.

It isn't even close to broadcast. Nothing beats it or even gets close save for Blu Ray. My NBC broadcast is over 2MB/s. That's two MEGABYTES, not bits. Nothing beats that save for Blu Ray.

I can see you're trying to make it look like I claimed that iTunes was as good as blu-ray, but I only said that it's not THAT far off. It really isn't that far off thanks to better compression. As for NBC having 2MB/s broadcasts, it's not that impressive when you consider that it's 16Mb/s and is just 2Mb/s more what the second generation AppleTV, that couldn't go any higher than 720p at 30FPS, was able to handle.

 

[Wolfpup]

It's not about it being too difficult to implement, it's all about licensing. There's a reason why companies that make software that's used to rip content off blu-ray discs and break the copy protection are registered in places where Sony can't get to them. Sony naturally won't grant them a license, so they have to be registered where Sony can't sue the pants off them and doing this kind of thing is not going to be possible for Apple.

Huh? They're doing something that's illegal in the United States (even if it shouldn't be). Apple wouldn't be doing anything illegal, they'd be licensing Blu Ray like everyone else, just as they do for DVD. If they don't want to bundle the price into the OS (as Microsoft has pulled the DVD license out of Windows), they can easily just sell it through the Apple store, or alternatively only pay the license if someone actually downloads it from the store (if they want to offer it for free), which is what Microsoft does with the Xbox One.

And it's not Sony they're paying it to, it's the group that deals with Blu Ray, just as the DVD group handles DVD.

I don't know what you're talking about with this "an OS is so hard to make"-babble, but the reality is that Apple tried licensing blu-ray, however Sony intentionally sabotaged it so that they could sell more Vaio notebooks with blu-ray drives.

That's an utterly absurd claim. "Tried licensing"? Had they wanted to, they could have used it just like everyone else.

And "babble"? Steve Jobs was the one babbling.

Sony software is not required, but a license from them, or rather their proxy, IS required unless you want to get sued to oblivion.

Yes, from the Blu Ray group that handles licensing. So what? This is exactly like DVD, MPEG, and a million other technologies.

PC retail sales went down the toilet well before infamos DRM solutions like SecuROM started becoming a pain in the ass by doing things like breaking disc drives.

No they weren't. Going in to this past console generation, right as activation was starting to go nuts, PC was still either EA's #1 or #2 platform (I forget which, but they were both huge businesses). PC games sold very well. It didn't start falling apart until all this DRM stuff.

I can see you're trying to make it look like I claimed that iTunes was as good as blu-ray

Huh? I never said anything like that. I'm pointing out it's not remotely close to broadcast TV, much less Blu Ray.

It really isn't that far off thanks to better compression[/url]

It doesn't have better compression than Blu Ray. It's more efficient than broadcast TV, but not THAT much more efficient that it can remotely make up for multiple times more data.

As for NBC having 2MB/s broadcasts, it's not that impressive when you consider that it's 16Mb/s and is just 2Mb/s more what the second generation AppleTV, that couldn't go any higher than 720p at 30FPS, was able to handle.

The stuff Apple's renting isn't anywhere near that bit rate.

 

[logicstudiouser]

You can buy the UJ-267 internal panosonic drive for MacBook Pro and download the blu-ray player application. There are several third party apps that can be used to write on blu-ray.
It is unfortunate that Apple never officially went the blu-ray route, but you can still do it and there are online tutorials that are pretty straight forward.

 

[sixrom]

My retina equipped 15" MBP is ideal without an optical drive. I wouldn't want it any other way.

Apple did exactly the right thing.

 

[Nermal]

Hi! As to your subtitle issue, could you help us to check whether your other Blu-ray discs have the same turning off issue?
We are unable to repeat the issue during testing discs.
The latest version is 2.10.6, please help to have a try again:
http://www.macblurayplayer.com/user/download/Mac_Bluray_Player.dmg

Thanks for your assistance!

Sorry, I forgot to reply to this. I've only seen the problem with that one movie. I currently have version 2.10.3 so I'll upgrade it and see whether it helps.

 

[mpainesyd]

You can buy the UJ-267 internal panosonic drive for MacBook Pro and download the blu-ray player application. There are several third party apps that can be used to write on blu-ray.
It is unfortunate that Apple never officially went the blu-ray route, but you can still do it and there are online tutorials that are pretty straight forward.

Some external blu ray burners work fine with a Mac
See https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1739897/
I burn 25GB blu ray disks for backups from time to time (never know when the next sun storm/cosmic ray hits and zaps magnetic media!). Finder treats blank blu ray disks the same as DVDs - no additional software is needed.

Third party Mac software will read/play blu ray recordings.

 

[Macgosoftware]

Reply to Nermal

Sorry, I forgot to reply to this. I've only seen the problem with that one movie. I currently have version 2.10.3 so I'll upgrade it and see whether it helps.

Ok. If any problems please help to contact us at support@macblurayplayer.com.
Thanks!

 

[Nermal]

Meanwhile, my hometown of Queenstown, NZ, doesn't have fast internet either, but then, it's in the mountains.

The Chorus site shows 100 Mb/s available in about half of the town, with the rest to be done within the next two years. It's not as bad as you make it out to be

BUT... I get your point. It'll be a long time before streaming can replace Blu-ray*. And by then there may be a newer optical format anyway - and I live in hope that the studios will treat it as a home cinema format rather than as a home video format...

*And on that note, Spark seems to be in "do as I say, not as I do" mode with 100 Mb/s plans and a streaming service that caps out at 5 Mb/s.

 

[yjchua95]

The Chorus site shows 100 Mb/s available in about half of the town, with the rest to be done within the next two years. It's not as bad as you make it out to be

BUT... I get your point. It'll be a long time before streaming can replace Blu-ray*. And by then there may be a newer optical format anyway - and I live in hope that the studios will treat it as a home cinema format rather than as a home video format...

*And on that note, Spark seems to be in "do as I say, not as I do" mode with 100 Mb/s plans and a streaming service that caps out at 5 Mb/s.

I live on the Kelvin Peninsula side of Lake Wakatipu, and as far as I know, my area doesn't have Chorus' 100 Mb/s service yet.

But to be honest, I'm happy with a 1 Mb/s connection as long as it's stable

I currently live in Melbourne though, slow internet's never a problem there!

 

[SarcasticJoe]

Huh? They're doing something that's illegal in the United States (even if it shouldn't be). Apple wouldn't be doing anything illegal, they'd be licensing Blu Ray like everyone else, just as they do for DVD. If they don't want to bundle the price into the OS (as Microsoft has pulled the DVD license out of Windows), they can easily just sell it through the Apple store, or alternatively only pay the license if someone actually downloads it from the store (if they want to offer it for free), which is what Microsoft does with the Xbox One.

In case you still don't understand, it's not about Apple being too cheap to pay for the license. Apple has plenty money basically just lying around and could just license the tech with a lump sum, however it's about the other license terms Sony demanded of Apple when they originally tried to license the tech

And it's not Sony they're paying it to, it's the group that deals with Blu Ray, just as the DVD group handles DVD.

Maybe not directly, but it is to Sony by proxy. Sony has the blu-ray license money fairly clearly on their balance sheet and has been over the last couple of years complaining about how they're not making as much money from the tech as they had hoped to.

That's an utterly absurd claim. "Tried licensing"? Had they wanted to, they could have used it just like everyone else.

Yes, by screwing all their customers and letting Sony embed the same kind of malware they put on CD's directly into the OSX kernel. With the CD malware (which amongst other things sent data to Sony on what music you listened to) you could at least remove it, with this stuff it's embedded right into the kernel.

And "babble"? Steve Jobs was the one babbling.

Care to post a link to him ever saying anything like that?

Yes, from the Blu Ray group that handles licensing. So what? This is exactly like DVD, MPEG, and a million other technologies.

The blu-ray group is basically a Sony facade and it's really they who decide on the license terms. In the case of when Apple tried to license the tech, they deliberately went and put in terms they knew Apple wouldn't accept. This looked a lot better than a flat out refusal and it's a pretty common thing to do in the business world.

No they weren't. Going in to this past console generation, right as activation was starting to go nuts, PC was still either EA's #1 or #2 platform (I forget which, but they were both huge businesses). PC games sold very well. It didn't start falling apart until all this DRM stuff.

Care to post some links because I remember PC retail being marginalized back in the PS2/Xbox/Gamecube days partly due to piracy.

Huh? I never said anything like that. I'm pointing out it's not remotely close to broadcast TV, much less Blu Ray.

I just gave you a link where they showed that it is pretty close to blu-ray quality even when it's a blu-ray with good quality encoding

It doesn't have better compression than Blu Ray. It's more efficient than broadcast TV, but not THAT much more efficient that it can remotely make up for multiple times more data.

If it can get as close as in the link I posted at a fraction of the size, then it IS better compression. Compression quality is about size-to-picture-quality and when you have almost the same picture quality at a fraction of the size, it's beyond obvious which compression is better.

The stuff Apple's renting isn't anywhere near that bit rate.

Maybe not (can't seem to be able to find any actual bitrate info for the 1080p streams), but being pretty close to blu-ray quality would imply it's better actual quality than your NBC stream.

Also, what kind of fossil watches broadcast TV in 2014?

 

[roadbloc]

I suppose that's just what you have to put up with if you live in a REALLY rural area... However the vast majority of the population in industrialized countries live in cities or towns, where high speed internet is usually available. Even with the majority of the world's population being in less developed countries, over 50% of the world's population already lives in cities.

Areas in both Leeds and Manchester still have signal and broadband issues. And those are both city areas. Granted, it is better than where I'm at, they can actually get 3G in most places and a decent connection speed. But there are plenty of areas in built up places still with little coverage or poor connections.

In many countries it is still an issue. Apple don't seem to think this however because America (where they're at) has good internet connections.

 

[MrX8503]

I think you should rename this thread to "Is Apple going to kill the classic MBP?". That's more likely to happen than Apple supporting bluray.