I sync my my photos with Google Sync and I have access to them on both Windows and Mac. You don't give up anything because you use an iPhone. An iPhone can work independently of your Mac or Windows PC.
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Is Apple Holding Us Hostage?
- Thread starter groove-agent
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I use a SP3 with my MBPs and MBA. When I need an OS X-only App, I just remote into my Mac workstation. I am very happy with the Surface Pro, and feel it is a nice compliment to my nice Apple laptops.
Definitely feel locked into apple and just purchased my first MBP.
Currently pay for Apple Music and don't love it but family members use it so I spend the $15 a month. Will sign up for storage soon so that's another $10 per month. Have an original Apple Watch, an original iPad mini (held on because I don't actually use an iPad since I have a 7+ iPhone). Gf has a 7+, iPad Air 2 and Apple Watch. Figured at this point were all in.
Pay for the storage bump on every iPhone and now dongles for the new computer. Definitely feel a bit nickeled and dimed by Apple but it is what it is. The camera is great, I take a thousand pictures and videos and have started making YouTube vids so I bought final cut.
I tried a Surface and had graphic driver errors and other headaches from the get go. Trying to stay a bit ahead of all in Apple by using gmail, google photos and google drive.
Conscious choice but it sure is pricey.
Currently pay for Apple Music and don't love it but family members use it so I spend the $15 a month. Will sign up for storage soon so that's another $10 per month. Have an original Apple Watch, an original iPad mini (held on because I don't actually use an iPad since I have a 7+ iPhone). Gf has a 7+, iPad Air 2 and Apple Watch. Figured at this point were all in.
Pay for the storage bump on every iPhone and now dongles for the new computer. Definitely feel a bit nickeled and dimed by Apple but it is what it is. The camera is great, I take a thousand pictures and videos and have started making YouTube vids so I bought final cut.
I tried a Surface and had graphic driver errors and other headaches from the get go. Trying to stay a bit ahead of all in Apple by using gmail, google photos and google drive.
Conscious choice but it sure is pricey.
I don't know how you can have all these "pro apps" and not go over 160 GB. I'm the same type of user and I have to have 512. Are you using external drives? I even archive my video and photographs to external 3.5" drives. I have two 512GB SSD drives in my cMBP equaling 1TB. To get 1TB in a current MBP, it's a $500 - $700 up sell depending on your currency. Dell charges $2xx.
When it comes to Apple, I'd hardly call it a steal. Years ago I would buy a maxed out 15" for $2600, or a 17" for $3200. Now that doesn't even get me a maxed out 13" which is only DUAL CORE and no ports. I think the steal is Apple's hands in our pockets.
[doublepost=1500611579][/doublepost]It's not silly, it's common sense. Sticking with one company gives a higher chance of compatibility amongst devices. Similar devices have user experiences which makes it easier to learn, and quicker transitions if you're working from multiple devices.
@groove-agent I went with 512 but have a 2TB passport external and plan to buy an external SSD if anyone has brand/size recommendations for an external ssd to store photos and videos.
I have Adobe CS6 installed along with Office 2016 Home & Business and they use up less than 15 GBs. I am not like some users with impostor syndrome who feel they need to have every pro app on the market installed to feel like they some how belong. Its a reality this is the case for many, when they are hardly using the apps. Anything installed is used, my only exception was some of the bundled apps like iWork (which I had to use when my O365 sub ran out) and I do use Photoshop and Illustrator regularly.I don't know how you can have all these "pro apps" and not go over 160 GB. I'm the same type of user and I have to have 512. Are you using external drives? I even archive my video and photographs to external 3.5" drives. I have two 512GB SSD drives in my cMBP equaling 1TB. To get 1TB in a current MBP, it's a $500 - $700 up sell depending on your currency. Dell charges $2xx.
When it comes to Apple, I'd hardly call it a steal. Years ago I would buy a maxed out 15" for $2600, or a 17" for $3200. Now that doesn't even get me a maxed out 13" which is only DUAL CORE and no ports. I think the steal is Apple's hands in our pockets.
[doublepost=1500611579][/doublepost]It's not silly, it's common sense. Sticking with one company gives a higher chance of compatibility amongst devices. Similar devices have user experiences which makes it easier to learn, and quicker transitions if you're working from multiple devices.
I do offload a lot of photos and videos to external storage that I don't need immediate access to. A lot of the popular YouTubers do the same.
When I said 'steal' I was referring to technology in general. An IBM PC in the 80's cost about $5,000, a Macintosh 128k cost about 2,500. Adjusted for inflation, in 2017, these would cost 15,000 and 6,000 respectively. So, you are getting more value for your money in terms of compute power. Taking into consideration what most users need a computer for these days, which is primarily consumption, its overkill. The creative and pro markets which was a big deal in the 80s and 90s has become niche. Even the smartphone and tablets which have contributed to this change are affected by the increase in computing power. You don't need an iPhone or iPad to access Facebook, Snapchat, Instagram, Twitter, take a selfie, do email, record video. A cheaper $300 Android can do that too.
Steve Jobs did say that iPhone is 5 years ahead of anything in the market in 2007. The industry has caught up. Photoshop CC on Mac vs Windows is no different. I have intimate access with both macOS and Windows 10 to comparatively say, either is a win-win in 2017. If you want more value for money, go with Windows. If you prefer the user experience on a Mac, go with that.
I can't say I feel trapped, but as a musician, Apple offers more out of the box for me, improving the value-to-cost ratio by a large margin. Mainstage 3, as well. Even Logic Pro X is good value for the money. As Mr. Dee said:
I'm another in the few million setup like that. I upgraded my mid-2012 cMBP with a 480GB SSD, and struggle to fill it. I do store externally and in the cloud. For photos, it's easy to use what comes with the Mac. That will make it harder to switch unless I deliberately move to something OS-independent. For now, though, it works just fine for my needs. I have never needed the latest and greatest. Even at 5 years old, I cannot complain at all about this particular Mac.
Very, very well said. Echoes my thoughts exactly, you just put it into the right words.
I'm definitely with the OP. I've been an Apple user since the 1980s and have personally purchased and owned over two dozen Apples/Macs in that time. I have become less and less enamored with the Apple experience, but there are still high "switching costs" to use the economics jargon.
The last time hardware felt this bad from a bang-for-the-buck standpoint was before Apple switched over to Intel. Those were some dark days as we ran Motorola chips and Apple tried to convince us of the "megahertz myth," but on the upside, the machines were solidly built. And while we were often asked to make short term tradeoffs for long term reasons (e.g., changes in ports, the very painful switch to OS X), even in the moments when users were collectively most frustrated, we "got" it. We knew the reasons. We didn't feel like design or functionality decisions were made as solutions in search of problems.
The obsession with thinner and lighter disappoints me greatly. Not enough to switch—indeed, I do feel stuck—but not enough to keep throwing money at Apple like I used to either.
I think what's most frustrating about the situation, though, is the way these conversations go on here. Someone like me hates it. Someone else comes along and basically says I'm an idiot or labels my view irrelevant because it doesn't agree with their own. It's hard to have a rational discussion around here in which everyone listens with an open mind to everyone else. Forum rules and guidelines just don't prevent delicate sneering. Too bad.
The last time hardware felt this bad from a bang-for-the-buck standpoint was before Apple switched over to Intel. Those were some dark days as we ran Motorola chips and Apple tried to convince us of the "megahertz myth," but on the upside, the machines were solidly built. And while we were often asked to make short term tradeoffs for long term reasons (e.g., changes in ports, the very painful switch to OS X), even in the moments when users were collectively most frustrated, we "got" it. We knew the reasons. We didn't feel like design or functionality decisions were made as solutions in search of problems.
The obsession with thinner and lighter disappoints me greatly. Not enough to switch—indeed, I do feel stuck—but not enough to keep throwing money at Apple like I used to either.
I think what's most frustrating about the situation, though, is the way these conversations go on here. Someone like me hates it. Someone else comes along and basically says I'm an idiot or labels my view irrelevant because it doesn't agree with their own. It's hard to have a rational discussion around here in which everyone listens with an open mind to everyone else. Forum rules and guidelines just don't prevent delicate sneering. Too bad.
I've been "a happy hostage" of the Mac since 1987.
I hope no one "frees me" from this bondage any time soon!
However, I do remain a careful shopper, and I get as much use out of my Macs as I can before replacing them. And I have no problems using 3rd-party peripherals at all -- mice, keyboards, displays. I haven't used an Apple keyboard since before the end of ADB!
I hope no one "frees me" from this bondage any time soon!
However, I do remain a careful shopper, and I get as much use out of my Macs as I can before replacing them. And I have no problems using 3rd-party peripherals at all -- mice, keyboards, displays. I haven't used an Apple keyboard since before the end of ADB!
You can make those same arguments about Microsoft and Android based devices as well. Anytime you change platforms, it's going to involve a level of inconvenience (at least initially) that you wouldn't get if you continued using the same platform. This phenomenon isn't exclusive to Apple.
I have an NVidia video card and a GSYNC display on my gaming desktop. If I switch to AMD I need to either get a new monitor or live without the variable refresh rate function... That's inconvenience over staying with NVidia
I have DirecTV in my home, if my cable company has a promotion to save me money and I switch, I have to rip out all the current equipment, put new equipment in, do some rewiring, lose everything on my DVR, reprogram my recordings. Reprogram the new remotes to work with my TV/receivers... That's an inconvenience over staying with DirecTV
If a gun owner has a collection of AR15's and wants to move to AK's, that means different ammo, different magazines, and different accessories... An inconvenience over sticking with ARs
I have an NVidia video card and a GSYNC display on my gaming desktop. If I switch to AMD I need to either get a new monitor or live without the variable refresh rate function... That's inconvenience over staying with NVidia
I have DirecTV in my home, if my cable company has a promotion to save me money and I switch, I have to rip out all the current equipment, put new equipment in, do some rewiring, lose everything on my DVR, reprogram my recordings. Reprogram the new remotes to work with my TV/receivers... That's an inconvenience over staying with DirecTV
If a gun owner has a collection of AR15's and wants to move to AK's, that means different ammo, different magazines, and different accessories... An inconvenience over sticking with ARs
You are stuck only if you think you are. No one's holding a gun to your head.
Ugh. This is exactly what I meant in my previous post. So much sneering.
No one alleged that people have a metaphorical gun to their heads. The point the OP was making is NOT that we "can't" switch. It's that switching costs are so very high for many users that when they (we) calculate the pros and cons, it doesn't make sense to switch—despite that cons list for staying with the platform being large and growing.
That's not an issue of mindset, and your suggestion that it is indicates you didn't really understand what the OP was saying. It's a basic cost benefit calculation, and we make those every day across a large variety of things. For some people, like you it sounds, it's an easy one. For others, like the OP and me, it's a much more frustrating one.
TL/DR: Different people are different.
[doublepost=1503179078][/doublepost]
This is all of course entirely true. That said, it's also the case that Apple has a much stronger ecosystem than any of the other manufacturers you named in computing and other industries. The debate over whether we should laud Apple for their business savvy or criticize them for their anticompetitive practices is a totally separate one—and for purposes of this discussion, irrelevant.
I don't think the OP was trying to criticize Apple at all. He/she was merely talking about the quandary faced and expressing curiosity about whether others feel the same.
In what way?
[doublepost=1503211726][/doublepost]
So let me understand here. Dont like the new Macbook because of "No ports, glossy screen, only 16GB of RAM", and you are thinking of moving to a Surface or Eve device with fewer ports, glossy screen, and only 16GB or RAM.
Makes sense to me.
[doublepost=1503238334][/doublepost]I just came back from Best Buy and couldn't find anything to spend my money on. It was depressing. I was even contemplating the Microsoft Surface because a laptop and tablet for the price of a MBP seemed like good value IMO. Fifteen years ago I would have laughed at the idea of buying a Microsoft-made computer. What is the world coming to?
Of course I'm exaggerating, but does anyone else feel similar?
yes he did. Read first post again
You need to read more carefully.
The OP is complaining about high cost of "staying with the ecosystem". Switching actually will cost less. Read the first post again.
And yes, the OP did imply that by stating he considered switching to Surface.
No one is forcing anyone to stay with Apple. Some people just don't want the hassle of switching as implied by the OP. You really need to read more carefully.
You quoted iregret. That person is not the OP. groove-agent is the OP. Pretty simple here.
In addition to you, too, being confused by what-was-said-to-whom (above): Sorry, but you misunderstand. This is not my reading problem. In economics and business, "switching costs" does not just refer to the direct monetary costs of switching. Hassle has a cost too—e.g., productivity, satisfaction. Just because these costs are either indirect or non-monetary does not mean they do not exist.
If you don't believe me, just Google "switching costs." The very first search result will explain it to you.
Next time, maybe don't be so quick to tell others to "read more carefully"? Yeah...
Apple is a monopoly in the iOS/ macOS market.
A monopoly always charges higher prices than firms in any perfect competition market and can pretty much do whatever it wants since you don't have any options. So either deal with it or move to windows, which has its own advantages and disadvantages.
As for me - all the software I use is cross-platform, so I never feel tied into any of the ecosystems currently running a 2016 13'' nTB Macbook with a galaxy s8, works wonderfully. Oh, and a single usb-c cable for charging and connecting everything
A monopoly always charges higher prices than firms in any perfect competition market and can pretty much do whatever it wants since you don't have any options. So either deal with it or move to windows, which has its own advantages and disadvantages.
As for me - all the software I use is cross-platform, so I never feel tied into any of the ecosystems
currently running a 2016 13'' nTB Macbook with a galaxy s8, works wonderfully. Oh, and a single usb-c cable for charging and connecting everything 
I'm hanging on to my late 2013 rMBP till it gives up the ghost! Then, switching over to Windows! I've been using both platforms for years and either work just fine for me.
I absolutely love my rMBPs but, going further, I don't see the value proposition in buying a mac laptop. Windows 10 is just as good, and in some instances better, as OSX and the build quality has (for the most part, sans trackpad ) caught up!
I strongly believe Apple is now completely fixated on iOS, and the mac OS is just an after thought. MS, on the other hand, is *hungry* again!
I absolutely love my rMBPs but, going further, I don't see the value proposition in buying a mac laptop. Windows 10 is just as good, and in some instances better, as OSX and the build quality has (for the most part, sans trackpad ) caught up!
I strongly believe Apple is now completely fixated on iOS, and the mac OS is just an after thought. MS, on the other hand, is *hungry* again!
I unfortunately feel the same way about my 2014 15" rMBP. (Really wish I had a 2015 model, but the cost to upgrade is just prohibitive. The market for used MBPs really tanked after the 2016 introduction.)
I still vastly prefer MacOS compared to Windows. I have VMs running both Windows 7 and Windows 10, and while they are dramatic strides forward, I'm still happier in my native Mac operating system. But you're entirely right that the gap has narrowed, and that coupled with the high price of Mac hardware is rough.
Out of curiosity: what is it you like so much about the Mac trackpad experience? Is it Force Touch, gestures, or something else? Maybe I'm too old school, but I actually have ALL of that stuff turned off!
This. I recently was having issues with Photos and iCloud.. so I used Google Takeout, organized all my photos as I wanted them.. removed ALL photos/videos from iCloud (all devices) and started fresh.. Thanks to having backed up on Google Photos.
Yes, and that is what people ignore when looking at specs on paper. Sure a similar specced out Windows PC is cheaper, but you lose a lot of software and integration. People just se XGhz is faster than YGhz! GarageBand is not free to develop. Apple is paying their developers a salary for developing that program. Therefore, the cost is absorbed in the purchases.
Same with FCPX. Show me a comparable video editor at $300. Premiere Elements is absolutely horrible. Premiere Pro CC is subscription - if I stop paying after a year or two I lose the software.
I'm personally happy in "Apple world" and wouldn't want to switch. I have a 2016 MacBook Pro, which I absolutely love and is just right for my needs. When I'm at home, I connect it to the LG Ultrafine display, connect one cable and I have a "desktop" computer. Everything syncs with my iPhone... I've had Windows and Android devices in the past and after experiencing multiple issues I would never go back. Apple products aren't "perfect," but anyone switching will (in my opinion) see what a great experience Apple is actually offering. I've gone Mac, Windows and back to Mac, and I think I'm back for good!