Is Apple really thinking of ditching the MBA?

[Mac 128]

My daughter goes to college this fall and we had been trying to figure out what laptop to get her. She has her heart set on a Mac after using them throughout HS. We'd held out on the long shot something would be announced at WWDC.

We went to the store and took a test drive of every model. She far and away preferred the MacBook Air. She liked the form factor, keyboard and weight. She didn't like the keyboard on the MacBook.

We looked at the screens of all three through multiple angles/programs. And it didn't make a bit of difference to her. While she could see a difference, it wasn't big enough to remotely change her mind. (This is the same daughter who still uses a original Mini and doesn't see the big deal about mom's iPad Air.

As much as we all obsess about specs, some consumers are driven by other things. Made my decision easy...and saved me a buttload of money too.

I'd wager you just explained why Apple will get rid of the Air as fast as it can. The new keyboards are here to stay, and Retina displays aren't going to make a huge difference to many people, especially where money is concerned. The only exception is the 11" Air which is truly awful.

 

[bodonnell202]

I can't imagine any possible scenario where it makes sense for Apple to introduce a new Air model. The air will stick around as long as necessary to get the price of the MB down to replace it. The Air is the non-retina MBP which Apple keeps around for folks who still need a built-in DVD, and don't care about Retina displays.

The Air is the iPhone SE of the MacBook line. It will serve its purpose, open up new low-end customer adoption, and then fade away, replaced by a new high end model as the current rMB depreciates to take the Air's place.

I also don't see a 14" rMB. Considering the rumored changes for the MBP, there's not likely to be a huge difference between a 14" MB and a 14" or 15" MBP.

I agree, in fact I think it is quite possible that they will discontinue the 11" MBA (since the rMB can replace it as the small ultra-portable) and only keep the 13" MBA with a modest spec boost as the budget option.
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My daughter goes to college this fall and we had been trying to figure out what laptop to get her. She has her heart set on a Mac after using them throughout HS. We'd held out on the long shot something would be announced at WWDC.

We went to the store and took a test drive of every model. She far and away preferred the MacBook Air. She liked the form factor, keyboard and weight. She didn't like the keyboard on the MacBook.

We looked at the screens of all three through multiple angles/programs. And it didn't make a bit of difference to her. While she could see a difference, it wasn't big enough to remotely change her mind. (This is the same daughter who still uses a original Mini and doesn't see the big deal about mom's iPad Air.

As much as we all obsess about specs, some consumers are driven by other things. Made my decision easy...and saved me a buttload of money too.

Screen resolution doesn't make as big of difference to the average consumer as tech enthusiasts who hang out on this site like to think. Most are only concerned about the size and don't give a second thought to the resolution.

 

[sracer]

I'd wager you just explained why Apple will get rid of the Air as fast as it can. The new keyboards are here to stay, and Retina displays aren't going to make a huge difference to many people, especially where money is concerned. The only exception is the 11" Air which is truly awful.

LOL The 11" MBA has a higher pixel-per-inch density than the 13" MBA but I know that it gives an air of "discernment" to rag on the MBA 11" screen as a "blurry, pixelated abomination" (tm).

The primary reason why Apple will discontinue the MBA will be in an effort to recalibrate the price tiers of their notebooks. The MBA may be best-sellers, but they're dragging down sales on the higher end Macbooks (Pro and non). People are comparing and contrasting value of the MBA vs the rMB vs MBP and choosing the MBA.

Apple did that with the Macbook Pros when they introduced the retina display. Prices were jacked up $400-500 over the non-retina models. The rMB will soon be the rMBA by default.

 

[jpn]

i really want the next macbook air to be the 1st apple iOS/macOS cross over machine.
leave the macbook and macbook pro using macOS.
iWork apps already were made to have almost total similar capabilities.
iCloud allows Contacts, Music, Photo, etc and virtually all apple software to sync beautifully.
i want a macOS version for apps. that's made for keyboard input not touch screen input.
new apple file system (APFS) can work across iOS and macOS.
its time.
do it.
then i will go iCloud storage 100% at the same time.

 

[KassyKat]

So you own a MB retina? Is that how you can say it's "much better"? MBA is a dinosaur. I mean, feel free to justify it all you want.
Also, it's *than, not then. lol.

Well, I actually DO own both, and both have their spot in my line up. I have the 13" MBA maxed out, and the Rose Gold MB maxed out. The MBA is a bit heavier, but the screen is actually larger, and is still a very clear screen. Remember, although the MBA does not have a Retina display, it is still an upgraded display sporting 127ppi. The MB has 226ppi, but to give an idea of how that compares, a
32" HDTV with 1080P has 52ppi. So, either way, the screen has a great resolution.
If you actually place the two systems next to each other, you'll see that the main area that you notice the difference is when looking at text. On images, you can barely see the difference.

For me, the MBA is a bit easier to use for intensive things. For travel, the MB is lighter and easier to store, but both are nice. Also the affordability of the MBA makes it a strong decision for many folks that would not normally look hard at a Mac laptop. The Macbook does come in some seriously pretty colors, but both are very nice and serve a purpose.

 

[toddzrx]

I also don't see a 14" rMB. Considering the rumored changes for the MBP, there's not likely to be a huge difference between a 14" MB and a 14" or 15" MBP.

There will be if a proposed 14" MB uses a Core M processor like the current 12".

 

[Osty]

I hope they don't. I love the 11 inch MBA - best computer I've ever owned. I want another one

 

[Appleaker]

i heard from news that apple thinking of ditching the mba and in future there will only be mbp and mb... is it really truth?

The MacBook Air will stick around for a few more years until the price of the MacBooks are reduced. I don't see them updating them in that time however there are rumours of an update that tweaks the ports and maybe upgrades the CPU, which is possible.

Apple will introduce new sizes of the MacBook which will be to replace the 13" MacBook Air. It is likely that these will have more than one USB C port (with one being TB 3). The larger models may use the newer versions of the 15W processors currently used in the MacBook Airs as the battery can accommodate the higher power usage however this is just speculation and the more likely rumour is that they will use Core M processors to achieve a fanless design and better battery life.

The new MacBook pros will be thinner than the MacBook Air and other than the price, there will be no reason to get an Air for the people who want portability, performance and more than one port.

 

[throAU]

i heard from news that apple thinking of ditching the mba and in future there will only be mbp and mb... is it really truth?

I suspect you'll hear, either next year or the one after, that "RMB IS THE NEW ENTRY LEVEL AT $1099!"

Or similar.

I think the writing is on the wall given the new MB is more "Air" than the Air. The fact that Apple didn't call it the Macbook Air 12" is a sign.

I very much suspect we will get back to MacBooks and Macbook Pros, all retina, and the Air will fade out like the Macbook Classic. It's the only non-retina device in Apple's lineup and it shows.

Yes, it's cheap. But i believe Apple can fix that by dropping the price of the Macbook to that level.

The original Macbook Air (from 2008) was expensive also. It wasn't until the second generation that Apple got the price down in an aggressive push. I suspect you'll see the Retina Macbook go through the exact same process.

 

[Appleaker]

I suspect you'll hear, either next year or the one after, that "RMB IS THE NEW ENTRY LEVEL AT $1099!"

Or similar.

I think the writing is on the wall given the new MB is more "Air" than the Air. The fact that Apple didn't call it the Macbook Air 12" is a sign.

I very much suspect we will get back to MacBooks and Macbook Pros, all retina, and the Air will fade out like the Macbook Classic. It's the only non-retina device in Apple's lineup and it shows.

Yes, it's cheap. But i believe Apple can fix that by dropping the price of the Macbook to that level.

The original Macbook Air (from 2008) was expensive also. It wasn't until the second generation that Apple got the price down in an aggressive push. I suspect you'll see the Retina Macbook go through the exact same process. Supporting non-retina displays means currently Apple needs to

Very true. Apple might actually reduce the price of the 12" when in introduces the new MacBook Pros.

 

[kiwipeso1]

i really want the next macbook air to be the 1st apple iOS/macOS cross over machine.
leave the macbook and macbook pro using macOS.
iWork apps already were made to have almost total similar capabilities.
iCloud allows Contacts, Music, Photo, etc and virtually all apple software to sync beautifully.
i want a macOS version for apps. that's made for keyboard input not touch screen input.
new apple file system (APFS) can work across iOS and macOS.
its time.
do it.
then i will go iCloud storage 100% at the same time.

As a programmer, though not under the onerous Apple NDA,
I'd like to point out that the macOS will never marry iOS,
as you'd have a system designed for fine mouse control working with a touchscreen system made for finger sized operation at the same time.

What would make more sense as the next generation of laptops and apple keyboards become backlit e-ink keys with oled touchbar at the function key, along with the touch ID sensor at the end of the touchbar.
This would allow for universal keyboards which would work in any country,
as Siri could detect which language to offer the keyboard layout in, and it would work in almost every set of characters.
This would mean that Apple could standardise on just laptop, wireless and wired layout for all markets.
That would be incredibly useful for those of us who don't want to be stuck with the default keyboard,
and it would be worthwhile as a premium experience.

 

[jpn]

As a programmer, though not under the onerous Apple NDA,
I'd like to point out that the macOS will never marry iOS,
as you'd have a system designed for fine mouse control working with a touchscreen system made for finger sized operation at the same time.

What would make more sense as the next generation of laptops and apple keyboards become backlit e-ink keys with oled touchbar at the function key, along with the touch ID sensor at the end of the touchbar.
This would allow for universal keyboards which would work in any country,
as Siri could detect which language to offer the keyboard layout in, and it would work in almost every set of characters.
This would mean that Apple could standardise on just laptop, wireless and wired layout for all markets.
That would be incredibly useful for those of us who don't want to be stuck with the default keyboard,
and it would be worthwhile as a premium experience.

hi
thanks for your thoughts.
1 i don't think its useful to use the word never. nor practical.
2 i hear the argument of ability to insert something "anywhere" where the cursor is, vs. ability to insert a cursor anywhere, including only where a finger or apple pencil can point. there are versions of this rationale out there.
on the other hand, i never asked for a screen where i can point to on it. i simply asked for a version of iOS that is totally compatible with keyboard input. i don't need both on the same machine or at the same time.
the point being that iOS output and macOS output being totally interchangeable and usable. this is where apple could realize its vision for cloud computing. and get far ahead of google netbooks and windows. it would create a next generation platform for cloud and laptop devices. much like what windows did for the world in the late 20th century with windows and office. more and more the developing countries are accessing the net over smartphones rather than laptops. file compatibility is crucial to being sure people are seeing exactly what i sent.
3 i do like selectable layout keyboard concept.
but on the other hand, apple is and has been light years ahead of windows in keyboards, fonts, standardized unicode encoding, etc.
by using apple it has always been easier to type/input glyphs other than ASCII.
iOS 10 has dual automatic keyboard/language input ability. but only for two western alphabet language encoding systems. not a combination of, for example, english and japanese, or, english and burmese where the character sets are dramatically different, even though Romanized input methods are frequently used for both.

 

[kiwipeso1]

hi
thanks for your thoughts.
1 i don't think its useful to use the word never. nor practical.
2 i hear the argument of ability to insert something "anywhere" where the cursor is, vs. ability to insert a cursor anywhere, including only where a finger or apple pencil can point. there are versions of this rationale out there.
on the other hand, i never asked for a screen where i can point to on it. i simply asked for a version of iOS that is totally compatible with keyboard input. i don't need both on the same machine or at the same time.
the point being that iOS output and macOS output being totally interchangeable and usable. this is where apple could realize its vision for cloud computing. and get far ahead of google netbooks and windows. it would create a next generation platform for cloud and laptop devices. much like what windows did for the world in the late 20th century with windows and office. more and more the developing countries are accessing the net over smartphones rather than laptops. file compatibility is crucial to being sure people are seeing exactly what i sent.
3 i do like selectable layout keyboard concept.
but on the other hand, apple is and has been light years ahead of windows in keyboards, fonts, standardized unicode encoding, etc.
by using apple it has always been easier to type/input glyphs other than ASCII.
iOS 10 has dual automatic keyboard/language input ability. but only for two western alphabet language encoding systems. not a combination of, for example, english and japanese, or, english and burmese where the character sets are dramatically different, even though Romanized input methods are frequently used for both.

1. An alternative word is can't. As in iOS can't work with macOS, the interfaces are completely different.

2 a. iOS has always been compatible with keyboards, however it is unlikely that Apple is prepared for the coming merger of Chromebooks with Android that will see Android netbooks do what you're thinking of.

2 b. The problem is with the iOS kernel not being made to present the filesystem, 2017's APFS will allow for a transition to fixing this shortcoming around iOS 12 or later, but for now the entire kernel of iOS is not suited to display filesystem data.

3. This could be fixed at little effort by Apple if it wasn't so US-centric.
An obvious solution would be to reuse the auto-emoji code to create a Romanised to native input method for Kanji, etc.

Hopefully this is a bit clearer for you now...

 

[jpn]

1. An alternative word is can't. As in iOS can't work with macOS, the interfaces are completely different.

2 a. iOS has always been compatible with keyboards, however it is unlikely that Apple is prepared for the coming merger of Chromebooks with Android that will see Android netbooks do what you're thinking of.

2 b. The problem is with the iOS kernel not being made to present the filesystem, 2017's APFS will allow for a transition to fixing this shortcoming around iOS 12 or later, but for now the entire kernel of iOS is not suited to display filesystem data.

3. This could be fixed at little effort by Apple if it wasn't so US-centric.
An obvious solution would be to reuse the auto-emoji code to create a Romanised to native input method for Kanji, etc.

Hopefully this is a bit clearer for you now...

hi
thanks
its crystal clear:
1. it can be done. just can't be done by people without vision.
2. other companies as you say are doing it
3. APFS will make it eventually able to happen.
4. i never have thought apple is usa-centric. apple has always been at the forefront (before Noto fonts by google) of creating or using font rendering standards.

 

[kiwipeso1]

hi
thanks
its crystal clear:
1. it can be done. just can't be done by people without vision.
2. other companies as you say are doing it
3. APFS will make it eventually able to happen.
4. i never have thought apple is usa-centric. apple has always been at the forefront (before Noto fonts by google) of creating or using font rendering standards.

1. It can't be done without crippling the entire macOS experience for the sake of working like iOS is the problem.
2. Other companies have planned ahead, and already have the features in place. Apple is lagging, as always, in iOS features.
3. APFS will take until 2018 to be stable, and Apple will need that length of time to plan for redesigning the kernel to display a filesystem similar to macOS. It risks severe incompatibility with existing apps in doing so, so it will take years.
4. The solution is trivial, and does not depend on fonts. Most of the functionality can be done within the spell-checking functions in conjunction with auto-correct as used by the forthcoming auto-emoji feature in iMessage.

 

[throAU]

2 b. The problem is with the iOS kernel not being made to present the filesystem, 2017's APFS will allow for a transition to fixing this shortcoming around iOS 12 or later, but for now the entire kernel of iOS is not suited to display filesystem data.

err.

iOS does not present a filesystem BY DESIGN.

It's not because apple couldn't do it, it's intended to be that way. If Apple WANTED a visible filesystem on the iPhone, it would have one already. iOS was originally split off from OS X, with various stuff stripped out and replaced with mobile friendly equivalent functions. If a filesystem visible to the user was desirable, it would not have been removed.

I don't think you understand what you're talking about, the kernel is not used to "display filesystem data".

 

[kiwipeso1]

err.

iOS does not present a filesystem BY DESIGN.

It's not because apple couldn't do it, it's intended to be that way. If Apple WANTED a visible filesystem on the iPhone, it would have one already. iOS was originally split off from OS X, with various stuff stripped out and replaced with mobile friendly equivalent functions. If a filesystem visible to the user was desirable, it would not have been removed.

I don't think you understand what you're talking about, the kernel is not used to "display filesystem data".

Sorry, you must have me confused for a sucker who pays too much money to get told marginally more about iOS internals than other people do already. I'm not that kind of developer that Apple loves to extract money out of annually.
Modern mobile OS use visible filesystems for a good reason, which could be best described as "a logical user experience".

Once APFS is ready, then there is the possibility that iOS will catch up to other platforms.

 

[sracer]

err.

iOS does not present a filesystem BY DESIGN.

It's not because apple couldn't do it, it's intended to be that way. If Apple WANTED a visible filesystem on the iPhone, it would have one already. iOS was originally split off from OS X, with various stuff stripped out and replaced with mobile friendly equivalent functions. If a filesystem visible to the user was desirable, it would not have been removed.

Apple wanted to not support an active stylus either, but... things change.

Apple is wrestling with their design decision to avoid a universally-accessible file system in iOS. Their current implementation of supporting cloud services is a kludge. That half-baked solution has reached the limit of usefulness. To move beyond that, Apple will need to rework the sandboxed storage concept. That will be quite an undertaking since they've painted themselves into a corner.

This is all only my opinion of course.

 

[jwolf6589]

I have chatted to Apple store staff several times over the last few years when buying MacBooks both for myself and friends/family and asked them which Mac sells the most, they have all said the Macbook Air and its very popular with students. For this reason i think Apple would keep it around, they would be mad to stop selling their most popular Macbook unless the new ones can match its price point.

You can still get that 2012 Macbook Pro with the DVD drive, so guessing it would hang around like that one did.

I bought that MacBook Pro last year. I have hundreds of DVD's and while I also use Netflix streaming and iTunes, not all my DVD's are available on the services.

 

[throAU]

Sorry, you must have me confused for a sucker who pays too much money to get told marginally more about iOS internals than other people do already. I'm not that kind of developer that Apple loves to extract money out of annually.
Modern mobile OS use visible filesystems for a good reason, which could be best described as "a logical user experience".

Once APFS is ready, then there is the possibility that iOS will catch up to other platforms.

APFS has nothing to do with whether or not iOS has a filesystem.

Some mobile platforms have a user visible filesystem, some don't. APFS has absolutely zero to do with that.

If you think it does, please explain what you think APFS will provide that UFS, HFS or any of the other available filesystems would not provide to iOS.

Whether or not you're "that kind of developer" (whatever that means), the info above is all out in the open whether or not you have a developer account.
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Apple wanted to not support an active stylus either, but... things change.

Apple is wrestling with their design decision to avoid a universally-accessible file system in iOS. Their current implementation of supporting cloud services is a kludge. That half-baked solution has reached the limit of usefulness. To move beyond that, Apple will need to rework the sandboxed storage concept. That will be quite an undertaking since they've painted themselves into a corner.

This is all only my opinion of course.

You're taking things out of context. Apple wanted a UI that was usable without a stylus. The "if you see a stylus, they failed" was in relation to the UI. In those times, touch UIs were not a thing, and a stylus, as used in the Palm and Windows CE was the norm. The "stylus" (pencil) on the iPad pro is not required to use the UI. It's provided for drawing with. Not to drive the UI.

Yes, things change. But the developers of iOS have not spent the engineering time and effort they have to provide a mechanism for apps to talk to each other in a controlled manner, just to throw it all away and open up direct filesystem access. Apple are trying to build a mechanism to enable you to do the things you "need" access to the filesystem to do, in a different and more secure way.

 

[kiwipeso1]

APFS has nothing to do with whether or not iOS has a filesystem.

Some mobile platforms have a user visible filesystem, some don't. APFS has absolutely zero to do with that.

If you think it does, please explain what you think APFS will provide that UFS, HFS or any of the other available filesystems would not provide to iOS.

Whether or not you're "that kind of developer" (whatever that means), the info above is all out in the open whether or not you have a developer account.
[doublepost=1466792886][/doublepost]

You're taking things out of context. Apple wanted a UI that was usable without a stylus. The "if you see a stylus, they failed" was in relation to the UI. In those times, touch UIs were not a thing, and a stylus, as used in the Palm and Windows CE was the norm. The "stylus" (pencil) on the iPad pro is not required to use the UI. It's provided for drawing with. Not to drive the UI.

Yes, things change. But the developers of iOS have not spent the engineering time and effort they have to provide a mechanism for apps to talk to each other in a controlled manner, just to throw it all away and open up direct filesystem access. Apple are trying to build a mechanism to enable you to do the things you "need" access to the filesystem to do, in a different and more secure way.

This is not relevant to the topic of MBA at all & really doesn't matter to the subject.
As for "not that kind of developer", as in I don't pay the annual developer tax to Apple.

Back to topic though, MBA won't be ditched because intel makes cpu products for each Apple product type.
Macbook, MBA, MBP and perhaps a forthcoming MBP supercharged with Xeon later this year.

 

[Appleaker]

I don't know why this topic swayed towards macOS and iOS merging but why would it happen? There is honestly no purpose to merging the two apart from creating a niche hybrid device. iOS may become more like macOS in the future (in terms of functionality) but they are very different systems and Apple wouldn't have 1 poor OS when they can have 2 good OSs that are optimized for their respective devices.

I believe that, just like the non-retina MPB, the MBA will stick around as an entry level model because it is popular among students and, along with the old retina MPB, will be the only notebooks in the lineup that have the variety of ports that are used right now. Once the world shifts towards USB C and the MB decreases in price, it will be shifted out of the lineup. Obviously, the 11-inch will be likely first to go and Apple may even lower the price of the 13-inch.

 

[kiwipeso1]

I believe that, just like the non-retina MPB, the MBA will stick around as an entry level model because it is popular among students and, along with the old retina MPB, will be the only notebooks in the lineup that have the variety of ports that are used right now. Once the world shifts towards USB C and the MB decreases in price, it will be shifted out of the lineup. Obviously, the 11-inch will be likely first to go and Apple may even lower the price of the 13-inch.

It is possible that the 11" will go and the 13" will become a 14" by reduction of the bezel size.

 

[Appleaker]

It is possible that the 11" will go and the 13" will become a 14" by reduction of the bezel size.

It might be possible but I don't see them changing the MacBook Air (at least not significantly) but instead introducing new models of the MacBook. Could be 14" or it could be 13". I suppose keeping the same height and width while increasing the screen to 14" is plausible since they do have extremely large bezels. but the new MacBooks will a different height and width regardless of the screen size as it has a different design and form factor. Time will tell.

 

[kiwipeso1]

It might be possible but I don't see them changing the MacBook Air (at least not significantly) but instead introducing new models of the MacBook. Could be 14" or it could be 13". I suppose keeping the same height and width while increasing the screen to 14" is plausible since they do have extremely large bezels. but the new MacBooks will a different height and width regardless of the screen size as it has a different design and form factor. Time will tell.

I would expect a 14" screen would allow for a FHD resolution, which is all that most MBA people would say is needed to make it perfect for their usage.
I could be wrong, but as the screen would effectively be a new configuration, a FHD resolution would be ideal for watching movies while being highly portable.