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No.

Mac "Pro".

3GB memory, single quad core, 640GB HD and an Nvidia GT120.

$2,500.

The only possible explanation for that "Pro" computer is that Apple really wants to get out of the professional market.
 
Linux and Windows are now where the serious pros dwell.

Yeah, if you like constant crashing, multiple programs to get things done, etc.. I've been on many boards reading of more complaints with the pc software. Yes, they all have there fair share of problems but seems the mac has less of them.
I don't know about you folks, but seeing what apple did with the 27 inch imac (putting desktop processors in them), am thinking this is a test to see if an imac could make it as a pro desktop. Bring in light speed (whatever its called) as a small connection for the imac and this could kill the mac pro line. I guess time will tell.
 
The entire Pro line is a joke. The cost, the spec .. it's pathetic. But I'm pissing in the wind .. profits up by 50% ... billions in the bank. They simply don't have to listen to advice / criticism because they're cash rich and can get away with it.:mad:
 
I don't know about you folks, but seeing what apple did with the 27 inch imac (putting desktop processors in them), am thinking this is a test to see if an imac could make it as a pro desktop. Bring in light speed (whatever its called) as a small connection for the imac and this could kill the mac pro line. I guess time will tell.
This is the direction I see them going. Their intent is to usse LightPeak to handle drive throughputs IMO (RAID and backup storage) on an iMac, and dump the MP line all together.
 
No.

Mac "Pro".

3GB memory, single quad core, 640GB HD and an Nvidia GT120.

$2,500.

The only possible explanation for that "Pro" computer is that Apple really wants to get out of the professional market.

How about Apple wanted to increase the profits on their Mac Pro line and so raised the price of dual socket systems to the same sort price Dell, HP, Fujitsu and Lenovo sell for. Then they have the issue of people wanting single socket systems and with the changes that the Nehalem X58 based platform brought it makes no sense to offer a dual socket system with one processor when they would have the same performance as the single socket version and could reduce costs considerably, even with a custom board.

Then because of Apple's way of thinking: the single socket Mac Pro can't be cheaper than the iMacs. Sure the competition's similar specced systems will be $1,200-$1,800, but people bought quad core Mac Pros for $2,299 the year before and for $2,499 from 2006 to 2008, so a $2,499 Mac Pro doesn't seem out of the question and they get a 50%+ margin on it. They make more money, customers get better than they could last year.

Maybe you are right and they want to stop supporting professionals, I mean all they do is bitch and moan anyway ;), but I think it is far more likely it is just a case of Apple's thinking and how they want the image of their product ranges to appear. Let us not forget that if you only look at Apple's range the line up made sense when it came out, it's a little out of whack right now due to Apple not refreshing processors (3.20GHz Xeon 3565 has replaced the 2.93Ghz and the 2.66Ghz is shortly to be replaced by a 2.8GHz chip). It isn't the first time iMacs have been revised and out performed Mac Pros. Obviously if you are comparing Macs to PCs then everything under the top systems are expensive and lacking features, but many do not as a Mac is the only choice for them and Apple do have an attitude of not caring if you don't want what they offer.

People may talk about the impending doom of the line on here but for all anyone knows they are selling more Mac Pros than ever and see no issue with the line and are oblivious to all this talk.
 
How about Apple wanted to increase the profits on their Mac Pro line and so raised the price of dual socket systems to the same sort price Dell, HP, Fujitsu and Lenovo sell for. Then they have the issue of people wanting single socket systems and with the changes that the Nehalem X58 based platform brought it makes no sense to offer a dual socket system with one processor when they would have the same performance as the single socket version and could reduce costs considerably, even with a custom board.
I can't say for the UK, but here equivalent systems from other vendors are actually less expensive than the MP's, particularly for the base models (both Quad and Octad). It does get closer as you go up in clocks. They also offer better pricing over the phone than they do on their web sites (and it does NOT have to be in quantity). I've gotten better pricing for a single system that way.

Then because of Apple's way of thinking: the single socket Mac Pro can't be cheaper than the iMacs. Sure the competition's similar specced systems will be $1,200-$1,800, but people bought quad core Mac Pros for $2,299 the year before and for $2,499 from 2006 to 2008, so a $2,499 Mac Pro doesn't seem out of the question and they get a 50%+ margin on it. They make more money, customers get better than they could last year.
I understand your logic here, and actually agree with it. They don't want the MP cutting into the iMac sales, as they sell more and it likely does have a higher margin. Both result in a lot more $$$ from the iMacs.

People may talk about the impending doom of the line on here but for all anyone knows they are selling more Mac Pros than ever and see no issue with the line and are oblivious to all this talk.
We can't know for sure as Apple won't split the numbers out publicly, but given the pricing increases with the '09's (and it will follow on the '10's), I seriously doubt it.

As I understand it, the Windows based software is improving, and there's been contention between Adobe and Apple for some time. As a result, Adobe's focusing on the Windows side far more than OS X versions. 3D work has gone Windows (and Linux to a degree as well, given some of of our members that are video editors). It's more than a remote possibility that other software developers may follow IMO.
 
I can't say for the UK, but here equivalent systems from other vendors are actually less expensive than the MP's, particularly for the base models (both Quad and Octad). It does get closer as you go up in clocks. They also offer better pricing over the phone than they do on their web sites (and it does NOT have to be in quantity). I've gotten better pricing for a single system that way.

Here, like in the states, you can certainly get comparable systems cheaper, but at the "retail" pricing level they are all about the same still. Obviously most PC systems at this level come with a warranty, adding to value. There is certainly a bigger gap now than there was in 2008 when looking at price and features.

We can't know for sure as Apple won't split the numbers out publicly, but given the pricing increases with the '09's (and it will follow on the '10's), I seriously doubt it.

Without knowing the true customer base for these systems it is hard to even guess, I wouldn't be shocked by any number be it 100,000 or 10000.

As I understand it, the Windows based software is improving, and there's been contention between Adobe and Apple for some time. As a result, Adobe's focusing on the Windows side far more than OS X versions. 3D work has gone Windows (and Linux to a degree as well, given some of of our members that are video editors). It's more than a remote possibility that other software developers may follow IMO.

I'd guess the majority of users are buying them for audio, final cut or are artists who are accustomed to or want OS X and Apple's way of thinking. I guess some appstore developers use them, but I would think most aren't. They also have a place in academia still. I think Bubba Satori was right with his comment in the other thread that it'll be users who leave, Apple won't drop their pro software, but it may not be as enticing as it once was.

I think something else to bare in mind when discussing this stuff is that digital media creation is growing fast and there are a lot of creative types (many young and learning on Macs) who (will) need powerful, stable, reliable, systems but have no real technical knowledge when it comes to hardware and it is very easy to keep going with what they know and just buy the Mac Pro that fits their budget. There are also plenty of other reasons to deal with the negatives and still buy these systems. The things that drew people to OS X and Macs in the first place.
 
Here, like in the states, you can certainly get comparable systems cheaper, but at the "retail" pricing level they are all about the same still. Obviously most PC systems at this level come with a warranty, adding to value. There is certainly a bigger gap now than there was in 2008 when looking at price and features.
I wasn't quite sure how the comparisons stacked up in the UK, as the pricing is higher from what I've seen. But I've never pulled them up on UK pricing only, and made a side-by-side cost comparison either, as I really didn't have a need to. :eek:

I didn't even bother mentioning the warranty or hardware options available on the PC side, as I knew you're aware of it. But it does make a difference in corporate purchasing environments, as they want a single service provider and are willing to pay the increased costs to get it vs. 3rd party upgrades and multiple support requirements that follows if it's not necessary.

For home or independent pros (anyone on tighter budgets), that's not as much of an issue, as the financial aspects will dictate decisions.

But the value the earlier MP's offered ('06 - '08's) is no longer there in the US, and from what I understand, has followed suit in all markets.

Without knowing the true customer base for these systems it is hard to even guess, I wouldn't be shocked by any number be it 100,000 or 10000.
No, we don't know the real numbers, and it could be anything. But my point is that I'd expect it to be falling, not increasing, as the current systems have lost their value given the higher costs and for some that research them thoroughly, the issues are making them unattractive as well.

I'd guess the majority of users are buying them for audio, final cut or are artists who are accustomed to or want OS X and Apple's way of thinking. I guess some appstore developers use them, but I would think most aren't. They also have a place in academia still. I think Bubba Satori was right with his comment in the other thread that it'll be users who leave, Apple won't drop their pro software, but it may not be as enticing as it once was.
They do still have their place and users interested in them. Either by preference or necessity (i.e. extensive software investments). I also agree with Bubba Satori that the customers will be the one's to abandon Apple, not the other way around. Apple will drop it only when it's no longer financially viable to them.

That doesn't mean pros won't have any ability to use OS X however (excluding Hackintosh means). I didn't do well to clarify there, sorry. :eek: Given Apple's way of thinking, it seems most likely that they'll shift the focus to the iMac and equip it with LightPeak to handle the drive throughput requirements (maybe a few other devices may develop LP based products). But the general impression I have, is they want thin, attractive systems that use external devices for expansion. LightPeak + USB + FW will provide that to their way of thinking IMO.

OS X being available to PC's is another option (keeps those using OS X based applications buying them - Apple's software products, when they must have PCIe slots). But the iMac direction is far more likely I think, rather than either porting OS X to PC's or MP's continuing on with desktop processors.

I think something else to bare in mind when discussing this stuff is that digital media creation is growing fast and there are a lot of creative types (many young and learning on Macs) who (will) need powerful, stable, reliable, systems but have no real technical knowledge when it comes to hardware and it is very easy to keep going with what they know and just buy the Mac Pro that fits their budget. There are also plenty of other reasons to deal with the negatives and still buy these systems. The things that drew people to OS X and Macs in the first place.
This is another reason I feel the iMac for professional use is the direction they're headed. PnP to the ports and load drivers = really simple, and doable even by the least technical people on the planet. :p
 
Yeah, if you like constant crashing, multiple programs to get things done, etc.. I've been on many boards reading of more complaints with the pc software. Yes, they all have there fair share of problems but seems the mac has less of them.
I don't know about you folks, but seeing what apple did with the 27 inch imac (putting desktop processors in them), am thinking this is a test to see if an imac could make it as a pro desktop. Bring in light speed (whatever its called) as a small connection for the imac and this could kill the mac pro line. I guess time will tell.

Hmm last time I tried Windows it never crashed. Ever. And I do a lot of stuff.

Also, do you not use multiple programs to get things done? Can you tell me what this "uber program" is that I should be using on my mac that can apparently do all of my work? That would be sweet, thanks.
 
So far most of the i5 and i7 imacs have = Fail. Yellow and flickering screens.
Some people getting DOA Imacs on delivery. Plenty of horror stories on the threads. What ticks me off though is that apple acknowledges this problem and not the Mac Pro audio bug.
 
That doesn't mean pros won't have any ability to use OS X however (excluding Hackintosh means). I didn't do well to clarify there, sorry. :eek: Given Apple's way of thinking, it seems most likely that they'll shift the focus to the iMac and equip it with LightPeak to handle the drive throughput requirements (maybe a few other devices may develop LP based products). But the general impression I have, is they want thin, attractive systems that use external devices for expansion. LightPeak + USB + FW will provide that to their way of thinking IMO.

This is another reason I feel the iMac for professional use is the direction they're headed. PnP to the ports and load drivers = really simple, and doable even by the least technical people on the planet. :p

As someone who doesn't require PCIe, I'm actually looking forward to seeing the first Lightpeak based iMac systems.
 
The iPad clearly shows where the journey with Apple is headed.

OS X 10.7 will introduce an AppStore for Mac OS X. In OS X 10.8 or 10.9, you will no longer be able to install software that was not bought in the AppStore. The Macs will finally be there where Steve Jobs already wanted them back in 1984.

How many professional users and developers of professional software do you guys think will follow Apple down this road?

More than 2/3 of Adobe's applications ONLY run on Windows. So much for "all professionals in the graphics and audio business out there are using Macs". That time is LONG over, and I think here in Europe that time actually never even existed. Adobe probably had some very good reasons not to port so much of their stuff to OS X at all. The user base is too small and the costs are too high.

The Mac Pro will disappear. It's an expandable PC that can run OS X - I'm sure Jobs hates it with all his guts, as he always hated the idea of open computer platforms.

Apple is all about control - especially about control over their customers. They want to -own- their customers.

I don't know about you guys, but I know for certain that my days in Apple land are counted. When the time is ripe for the next upgrade cycle of my equipment, I will jump ship.

Windows 7 and Ubuntu 9.10 are both awesome platforms, and especially Ubuntu has evolved - and improved - at an incredible speed. I will miss the one or the other application for Mac OS X, but I certainly won't miss OS X itself. Compared to Linux, OS X feels unstable, bloated and slow. It even feels unstable, buggy and slow when compared to Windows 7.

OS X looks pretty, yes. But you should not never forget that it is just a pretty looking prison for its user.
 
.
I'm scared.
It's no longer Apple Computer. It's Apple Gadget.
I'm still trying to figure out what the value of Snow Leopard is.
How many pro applications can run in 64-bit?
.
 
if this happens, it would be the most retarded thing apple has done, and they are guaranteed to loose a bunch of their users.

sure hope that never happens. if it does, geohot will become the saviour
 
How many people buy a MP from their local Apple Store anyway? I don't recall seeing them at the Apple stand in Best Buy. Apple said when they dropped the "good, better, best" setup with the first MP they were going for more of a "here's the generic nothing-some-pro-wouldn't-need base model, BTO other stuff as you need it" approach. (hence the low-end graphics and lack of wifi. BTO them if you need them). You order online for that. Last time I was in my local Apple Store, there were 2 MPs on display. MBPs and iMacs had about 6 machines EACH. And I think those Mac Pros were there to sell ACDs as much as they were there to sell MPs.

Last time I checked (admittedly that was 2006) you could BTO your MP with the Airport card right in the store (I did). Memory and hard drives are a given (though you'd be a fool to get them from Apple). I don't know about video cards -- it's possible you might have to wait, as the stores don't seem to stock them.
 
Apple needs a pro level machine to develop their own products. What are they going to do, run hackintoshes? As long as they make products for consumers, the pro line will exist. They will sell them to the general market too. I would never consider doing any of the dev I do on an iMac. I am certain the engineers at apple feel the same. In many cases its not physically possible.

Cry all you want about price and comparable pcs costing less. It is only reaching deaf ears. You are not the pro's target market, even if you demand you are.
 
2013 will be the last year, given the direction Intel's moving with the Xeon parts. More cores, and higher prices.

I agree. I plan to buy my next MP in 2012. I doubt very much that by the time I'm ready to get another machine circa 2018 MP will be around. My 2018 machine probably will be some iteration of an iMac, hopefully one that will allow me to use my 30" ACD as a secondary display. By the time I'm ready to buy again around 2021 (seeing that the iMac has about half the useful life of a MP), my next option will be some sort of a cloud terminal, a supercharged iPad, with little internal storage to speak of, just the ability to communicate with the cloud at lightning speed (pun intended) and able to transmit images to a large display wirelessly. The world of computers is inevitably moving into the cloud, and will be driven/supported by subscriptions rather than today's pay once and use forever (err, until the next upgrade) model.
 
Look at why they bought Shake,so they could say our software does award winning compositing and milk the marketing angle. No I think if they dropped the Mac Pro etc in the future the market share would eventually slip again. They have to much to lose and to little to gain from a marketing angle to do that.


As for 3d animation work stations {not render boxes} I think the number of those in the industry {not film studios, freelancers etc} is actually growing, albeit slowly, but growing.



If Autodesk had not hoovered up all the top 3d apps I really think we may have got XSI on the Mac.
 
The iPad clearly shows where the journey with Apple is headed.

OS X 10.7 will introduce an AppStore for Mac OS X. In OS X 10.8 or 10.9, you will no longer be able to install software that was not bought in the AppStore. The Macs will finally be there where Steve Jobs already wanted them back in 1984.

How many professional users and developers of professional software do you guys think will follow Apple down this road?

More than 2/3 of Adobe's applications ONLY run on Windows. So much for "all professionals in the graphics and audio business out there are using Macs". That time is LONG over, and I think here in Europe that time actually never even existed. Adobe probably had some very good reasons not to port so much of their stuff to OS X at all. The user base is too small and the costs are too high.

The Mac Pro will disappear. It's an expandable PC that can run OS X - I'm sure Jobs hates it with all his guts, as he always hated the idea of open computer platforms.

Apple is all about control - especially about control over their customers. They want to -own- their customers.

I don't know about you guys, but I know for certain that my days in Apple land are counted. When the time is ripe for the next upgrade cycle of my equipment, I will jump ship.

Windows 7 and Ubuntu 9.10 are both awesome platforms, and especially Ubuntu has evolved - and improved - at an incredible speed. I will miss the one or the other application for Mac OS X, but I certainly won't miss OS X itself. Compared to Linux, OS X feels unstable, bloated and slow. It even feels unstable, buggy and slow when compared to Windows 7.

OS X looks pretty, yes. But you should not never forget that it is just a pretty looking prison for its user.

All that is certainly true. Add Apple's reluctance to rectify the basic power management fault in the 2009 Mac Pro (Audio bug). It looks like an 18 year old high school user without even owning a 2009 has found the fix for that. It tells you volumes about Apple's attitude towards the Mac Pro.
 
Mac pro for life here. I need more cores, even more the better. I would get the Haswell update which would provide 16 cores in the future.

For Financial modeling (Quantitative finance,derivatives) More cores is fine.

I remember paying 25K+ for a Sun Ultra creator workstation with 2x 200Mhz Ultrasparc CPUs and 2GB of ram back in 1999

I have ported quite a bit of Unix stuff that ran on Unicos and Solaris on to the Mac Pro.

I still think Apple will keep selling the Mac Pro line because there are people who still need them. My office has 8 of them and I have one at my home office.
 
I still think Apple will keep selling the Mac Pro line because there are people who still need them.

many.jpg
 
Apple is all about control - especially about control over their customers. They want to -own- their customers.

I don't know about you guys, but I know for certain that my days in Apple land are counted. When the time is ripe for the next upgrade cycle of my equipment, I will jump ship.

Couldn't agree more. I'm too giving very serious considerations as to where my next couple of thousand euros go.

Gugucom - "It looks like an 18 year old high school user without even owning a 2009 has found the fix for that." Could you give me a link for this please?
 
Couldn't agree more. I'm too giving very serious considerations as to where my next couple of thousand euros go.

Gugucom - "It looks like an 18 year old high school user without even owning a 2009 has found the fix for that." Could you give me a link for this please?
Here.
 
Thanks Nanofrog. Now if someone can tell me what "yes I am going to charge $ 40 for the fix - lmao, no way ofc its free" means I'd be a bit wiser!
 
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