PlainviewX

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Oct 4, 2013
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Is there a way to opt out of this? I really hope there is. Also, if there is, will people be automatically opted in to it like Amazon Sidewalk?
 

I7guy

macrumors Penryn
Nov 30, 2013
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Gotta be in it to win it
Thanks for the info. That's awful. Apple is supposed to be all about privacy, but in reality, not really.

It should be OPT IN!
Apple IS about privacy and I think you are conflating ideas. IMO, the rational for opt-in is that Apple wants people to use it out of the box and that is the majority.

Peopke who don’t want to “find my” stuff are probably in the minority.
 
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Night Spring

macrumors G5
Jul 17, 2008
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Peopke who don’t want to “find my” stuff are probably in the minority.

Exactly. I'm not really sure what negative effects you could be inflicted with by being included in the Find My network. As I understand it, it's not like your location is shared over this network. Your device is just being used as relaying stations to share locations of Find My items.
 
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PlainviewX

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Original poster
Oct 4, 2013
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Apple IS about privacy and I think you are conflating ideas. IMO, the rational for opt-in is that Apple wants people to use it out of the box and that is the majority.

Peopke who don’t want to “find my” stuff are probably in the minority.
This isn't about your devices. I have that enabled. This is about Apple using my device to find other people's devices. Users shouldn't be automatically enrolled in it. It should be an opt in, not an opt out.
 
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PlainviewX

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Original poster
Oct 4, 2013
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What exactly in Find My do you find against privacy?

An argument could be made that it wastes battery, or bandwidth. But, privacy?
I have app suggestions turned off yet I still sometimes, weirdly, get app suggestions when I'm near certain locations. Any further layers of tracking, I'm against. And now that you mention it, yes, I'm sure they will have a noticeable hit and bandwidth. It will be interesting to see what the bandwidth hit will be.

It should be opt in, not opt out.
 
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I7guy

macrumors Penryn
Nov 30, 2013
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Gotta be in it to win it
This isn't about your devices. I have that enabled. This is about Apple using my device to find other people's devices. Users shouldn't be automatically enrolled in it. It should be an opt in, not an opt out.
I disagree. Why should I go flipping on every option. For those who have a strong opinion (and are probably in the minority), they can opt out. Why force what I believe are the masses to opt in?
 
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PlainviewX

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I disagree. Why should I go flipping on every option. For those who have a strong opinion (and are probably in the minority), they can opt out. Why force what I believe are the masses to opt in?
Then you're completely OK with Amazon's Sidewalk then?
 
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Lihp8270

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Dec 31, 2016
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I have app suggestions turned off yet I still sometimes, weirdly, get app suggestions when I'm near certain locations. Any further layers of tracking, I'm against. And now that you mention it, yes, I'm sure they will have a noticeable hit and bandwidth. It will be interesting to see what the bandwidth hit will be.

It should be opt in, not opt out.
The bandwidth and battery hit will be so low as to be near immeasurable
 
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Saladin12

macrumors member
Apr 26, 2021
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I have app suggestions turned off yet I still sometimes, weirdly, get app suggestions when I'm near certain locations. Any further layers of tracking, I'm against. And now that you mention it, yes, I'm sure they will have a noticeable hit and bandwidth. It will be interesting to see what the bandwidth hit will be.

It should be opt in, not opt out.

Aren't you sharing that data regardless of whether you opt-in or opt-out of the crowdsourced Find My network? Especially if you have Find My active for your own devices?
 
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PlainviewX

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Oct 4, 2013
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Aren't you sharing that data regardless of whether you opt-in or opt-out of the crowdsourced Find My network? Especially if you have Find My active for your own devices?
Not for other people's usage. I have all tracking and targeting off.
 
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PlainviewX

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Original poster
Oct 4, 2013
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The bandwidth and battery hit will be so low as to be near immeasurable
It'll be low, but I don't think it will be immeasurable, but it shouldn't be any unless I say so, not unless I say no.
 
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TruBleu

macrumors 6502
Sep 20, 2014
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The Hague, Netherlands
Aren't you sharing that data regardless of whether you opt-in or opt-out of the crowdsourced Find My network? Especially if you have Find My active for your own devices?
It is not a one-way street. If you want to be able to find your device using the ‘find my’ network, you participate in it. If you opt out, you won’t be able to locate your device using the same.
 
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PlainviewX

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Original poster
Oct 4, 2013
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As long as Amazon does what Apple does, which is provide a toggle. Otherwise I have none of Amazon’s products.
They provided a toggle, but you were automatically opted in to sharing your wifi with any other Echo/Ring/Etc. users.
 
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hwojtek

macrumors 68000
Jan 26, 2008
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Poznan, Poland
This isn't about your devices. I have that enabled. This is about Apple using my device to find other people's devices. Users shouldn't be automatically enrolled in it. It should be an opt in, not an opt out.
So you take advantage of other people who enabled their devices as relays in order to help you find your stuff but you do not wish to relay data in to help other people find their stuff. Two questions:
- how would you find your stuff if everybody turned off the relay switch?
- what does relaying data do to you in regards to your privacy?
 
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hwojtek

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Jan 26, 2008
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Poznan, Poland
It will be interesting to see what the bandwidth hit will be.
Judging by the design of the Find My feature which transmits date, time, location and unique ID of the sensed device, something around 2 kilobytes of data per device sensed in a radius of roughly 30 meters, assuming you are on the move, not stationary.
 
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TruBleu

macrumors 6502
Sep 20, 2014
287
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The Hague, Netherlands
While I agree to OP’s sentiment that participation on ‘Find My’ network should have been Opt-in, I don’t necessarily agree with their reasoning behind it (privacy / battery/ bandwidth and so on). I think it should have been opt-in because that’s the right way to do it. When I am made to share any of my resources for any purpose, I should be allowed to make a conscious decision and agree or disagree based on that. Doing that would probably not work in favour of Apple though, considering that many people would disagree when they see any pop-up/prompt asking their consent for things like these. However, Apple could easily present their case that participation in the network also helps users in making use of the network to locate their device, should they lose it. But then again, I also think that not many users would be patient enough to read/listen to that argument and make a decision, rather than just saying ‘disagree’ and going on with their lives.
 
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velocityg4

macrumors 603
Dec 19, 2004
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Georgia
I'd say something in between is ideal. If you turn on iCloud and Find My Whatever in iCloud. Then it should automatically enable the Find My Network. As you've decided you want your device findable. You should reciprocate. But if you don't enable Find My Whatever device. Then you shouldn't be automatically enrolled in the Find My Network. A good compromise is when nobody is happy.

Personally, I don't care. I'm using Apple's devices and I trust them more than most companies. If I thought they were bad actors. I wouldn't care what options they gave. As I wouldn't believe them.

As I have their devices. That means they potentially have access to everything. My call history, location history, messages, pictures, web browsing, voice, fingerprint, faceprint, social security number, banking, private conversations, passwords... Well you get the picture. Relaying an anonymous encrypted location ping for some strangers device is the least of my worries.

It wouldn't matter what devices I used. I'd have to trust the device manufacturer. As they could be snooping any or all of this data.

I'll trust what they say. That Apple only knows my devices location on Find My when I make an active request or when someone I authorized with Share My makes that request. That the data is deleted after 24 hours. That when it helps find another device. Apple won't know my devices location or that it was my device which found it. They'll just know the location of the found device for the person looking for it.
 
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Saladin12

macrumors member
Apr 26, 2021
37
21
It is not a one-way street. If you want to be able to find your device using the ‘find my’ network, you participate in it. If you opt out, you won’t be able to locate your device using the same.

Ahh! Did not know that - that's fair enough! That seems dangerous though - I know once when I lost my work iPhone and I was able to locate it using Find My. Was a life saver!
 
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SpecMode

macrumors member
Jun 27, 2007
63
71
NorCal
Keep in mind that there are two distinct "Find My" methods: the 'legacy' method using GPS/WiFi/cell network mapping, and the new Find My "network" that uses crowdsourced Apple devices as a massive mesh of Bluetooth beacons for more precise location of lost devices, even those without an active cellular/WiFi network connection (as is required for the legacy method).

It follows that one should be able to opt out of participation in the new crowdsourced network, with the caveat that any device not participating would also not be capable of being located by the network itself (e.g., turning the feature off blocks all Find My network Bluetooth pings) — only via the legacy method that requires an active network connection.
 
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