Only devices I use that are Apple that leave the house is my iPhone, and an Apple watch. The Apple Watch doesn't leave my arm. My iPhone uses cellular to track. I'm not using anybody's wifi.
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Is Apple's Crowdsourced Find My Network mandatory?
- Thread starter PlainviewX
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Correct. I want the "legacy" way only. If future devices will be mandatory to use crowdsource, I'd be pretty annoyed at that.
MozMan68
macrumors 603
I'm taking you've turned off traffic updates as well? Apple by default tracks every single device's movements to improve traffic data...and it's not the easiest option to find and turn off.
Why do they do that?... because they are Apple and we have been told we can trust them that this default tracking like we are discussing is not traceable back to the individual user, is destroyed once utilized, and does not cause a negative effect to the individual user (use up data.."cost" them time/money...etc.)....all for a better world! 🙂
Why do they do that?... because they are Apple and we have been told we can trust them that this default tracking like we are discussing is not traceable back to the individual user, is destroyed once utilized, and does not cause a negative effect to the individual user (use up data.."cost" them time/money...etc.)....all for a better world! 🙂
You have WiFi turned off when out and about? Bluetooth too? 🤔🤔
LogicalApex
macrumors 68000
Apple collects this data in the most privacy enhancing way as possible. They only collect it from users who are actively navigating via Apple Maps and they clip off segments of the trip to ensure that the randomized session ID could never be tracked back to any individual user as they don’t have a complete trip from start to finish. Including inserting noise data randomly from the device to further complicate their ability to work backwards
The innovation Apple is doing regarding offering features we all expect in a privacy first manner is commendable. They are building the tracks that will power the entire tech industry if privacy laws keep going the right way in places like the EU.
MozMan68
macrumors 603
Sorry…that’s incorrect. We are speaking of two different things.
Every…single…phone tracks movement whether using Maps or not. It is a default setting in iOS since back to when Maps was first introduced. The main purpose of course is to track traffic patterns for use ON Maps, but it is active as long as your phone is on and sending a signal.
What you are referring to is new Maps tracking active routing which yes, also tracks movement, but it is mainly there to analyze routes, slow downs or consistent changes which may represent closed roads, etc. for this, yes, they only “track” the middle of the route so as not to see where phones are starting or ending routes while still keeping the middle tracked portion completely anonymous and private.
LogicalApex
macrumors 68000
That’s not accurate. Apple does not collect iPhone locations all the time. The method used is as I mentioned. It is collected by Apple users who are using Apple Maps navigation in a privacy focused manner. Google captures location information all the time on Android to power a host of features. Apple doesn’t follow the same model.
Can you cite the source for your claim or find it in Apple’s Privacy Policy?
Privacy
Apple products, including Apple Intelligence, are designed to protect your privacy, because privacy is a fundamental human right.
www.apple.com
MozMan68
macrumors 603
That’s not accurate. Apple does not collect iPhone locations all the time. The method used is as I mentioned. It is collected by Apple users who are using Apple Maps navigation in a privacy focused manner. Google captures location information all the time on Android to power a host of features. Apple doesn’t follow the same model.
Can you cite the source for your claim or find it in Apple’s Privacy Policy?
Privacy
Apple products, including Apple Intelligence, are designed to protect your privacy, because privacy is a fundamental human right.www.apple.com
This is what you are referring to and is specific to Maps and user selected routing…
That particular part…the one associate with Maps…is the “improve Maps” toggle in the pic below.
Also in the pic is what I circled and is defaulted on with every single iPhone sold.
It allows Apple to anonymously use the movement data from your phone to obtain traffic date and route data for use WITH Maps. You do NOT need to have Maps open for this data to be collected.
The Maps specific data you are referring to is based on the one article given 2 years ago when new Maps was introduced. And yes, when utilizing Maps to do an actual route, Apple collects parsed and anonymous encrypted data to improve those specific routes by seeing where you go based on where Apple told you to go, how fast you got there, etc.
The traffic toggle has been around since Apple introduced its own Maps and you may have to dig, but there are a bunch of articles talking about what it does and how to turn off as it is hidden fairly well from the average iPhone user. But because it is anonymous and encrypted, I don’t think most people mind.
And this is what makes Apple traffic in Maps so good. All of those iPhones, using Apple Maps or not, sending speed and location data so Apple can get that traffic info.
Oh…Google does the same, but can’t control it as well because Android is used on other people’s hardware while Apple has it as the default on every phone. Waze can’t because it’s an app and specifically asks its users to run the app whether routing or not in order to get that data.
Edited because I forgot the second pic. Also…very recent article on this particular toggle and an explanation from Apple. Their explanations specific to businesses and a new option coming that will show you how busy it is, but the toggle has been there for nearly a decade tracking your movements anonymously for traffic data as it states.
Apple Maps could soon be able to tell you how busy a business is based on anonymous location data - 9to5Mac
We’ve already detailed a handful of new features coming to Apple Maps in iOS 14.5, including Waze-style reporting and hazard...
9to5mac.com
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hwojtek
macrumors 68020
Yes you are, as BSSIDs of the wifi networks your devices are exposed to while you roam are used to enhance the location metadata, in regards to both your devices and the wifi networks themselves. Unless you deliberately turn off wifi in your devices, that is.
And once Apple shifts to Airtag-compatible mesh of Apple devices phasing out the legacy FindMy technique, it's gonna be either you participate and help others in order to be helped, or you're on your own. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
TrueBlou
macrumors 601
Two things keep me - and I do mean me, if you don’t like it, please yourself, that’s the way of the world 😉 - I (and my family) use Find My a lot. Whether that’s checking on AirTags, finding devices, or whatever. My dad famously uses it a bloody lot to see if we’re at home, so he can pop up for a coffee and get peace from my mum for a little while 😂
That I/we use it, it seems only fair then that we also take part in the crowdsourcing, pay back unto others, what we take advantage of.
Secondly, there’s no privacy concerns in using the feature - no-one gets any access to any of our information in any way. Sharing a small amount of location data here and there, which is not tied to you, or your account is fine by me. It’s less invasive on privacy than visiting most websites.
I’ve never monitored data/battery impact for the feature, but likewise, I’ve never had the need to, as both my battery life and data use are very good - admittedly data use is definitely not a concern anyway, as I have unlimited data.
But I also keep an eye on my dad’s account for him. He has a minuscule amount of data, and also uses Find My, his monthly data use over the past three years, has yet to go above double digits. Taking into account the other things he does, I don’t see Find My having any meaningful impact on his data usage.
I’m personally happy that it’s defaulted to opt-in. Most people probably wouldn’t take the time to look into it, and discover that it’s perfectly safe. So selfish though it may be, defaulting to enabled, makes my use of the feature better, I suppose 😉
That I/we use it, it seems only fair then that we also take part in the crowdsourcing, pay back unto others, what we take advantage of.
Secondly, there’s no privacy concerns in using the feature - no-one gets any access to any of our information in any way. Sharing a small amount of location data here and there, which is not tied to you, or your account is fine by me. It’s less invasive on privacy than visiting most websites.
I’ve never monitored data/battery impact for the feature, but likewise, I’ve never had the need to, as both my battery life and data use are very good - admittedly data use is definitely not a concern anyway, as I have unlimited data.
But I also keep an eye on my dad’s account for him. He has a minuscule amount of data, and also uses Find My, his monthly data use over the past three years, has yet to go above double digits. Taking into account the other things he does, I don’t see Find My having any meaningful impact on his data usage.
I’m personally happy that it’s defaulted to opt-in. Most people probably wouldn’t take the time to look into it, and discover that it’s perfectly safe. So selfish though it may be, defaulting to enabled, makes my use of the feature better, I suppose 😉
MozMan68
macrumors 603
hwojtek
macrumors 68020
Absolutely no. Your phone works for calls just as well if you disable bluetooth and wifi. Want to use other services provided by Apple, play by Apple rules. It's simple. There are no free lunches.
MozMan68
macrumors 603
You'll also need to turn off "traffic and Routing" and "Improve Maps..."Analytics"... There are a whole slew of items that also grab data even when you are on cellular only. Not necessarily part of the "mesh network"...but still...
haruhiko
macrumors 604
Haha sometimes Apple’s privacy first policy backfires on themselves. People now put everything in microscopes. The find my network is so beneficial to every user out there, I can locate my car (with an AirTag attached to the sun visor) even when it’s offline in an underground car park because someone with an iPhone passed by. And what’s being broadcasted to the network? The location of my item, not the stranger’s iPhone, I won’t know which iPhone reported the location, neither does Apple. So it benefits the others without hurting your privacy.
When it comes to privacy, I trust Apple much more than the others - because if they fail at it, it will be headlines on all major media outlets and every tech website.
When it comes to privacy, I trust Apple much more than the others - because if they fail at it, it will be headlines on all major media outlets and every tech website.
hwojtek
macrumors 68020
I assumed he doesn't have cellular data turned on in the first place...
MozMan68
macrumors 603
Nah…a new iOS was announced…it’s just crybaby season on Macrumors.
Incorrect, it has everything to do with what you were responding to. Although you're not connecting to someone's Wifi, iPhone will still ping information back to Apple, for thing. Unless you've also turned off all the little settings.
The fact you think my post had nothing to do with what you were responding to, just shows how uninformed you are.
Apple_Robert
Contributor
That product is different than the Apple app and feature being discussed.
"Find My" is secure and isn't being used every few minutes with the new feature.
From a personal preference perspective, I think Apple should have given users the option to be a part of the bee hive or not. Since my security is intact and my battery isn't impacted from the feature being turned on, I am not going to go on a crusade calling for immediate change, which would be a bit over the top action.
In my opinion, you should file a report with Apple stating your wishes on the matter.
If something can protect the user’s privacy and has the potential to help someone find their valuable device with the help from others, then yes, it should be a default opt-in. All the data that leaves your iPhone for this purpose in a month could fit in a text file the size of a few KB and doesn’t identify you personally. So you’re not going over your data limits with this feature turned ON.
If you’re so worried about being tracked, the stuff you need to turn off on your iPhone would make it worthless. Even when not connected to a network your iPhone can be tracked with WiFi and Bluetooth just being turned on. And this is the reason Apple implemented Private Address for WiFi and MAC address randomization.
You're claiming I'm using people's WIFI when I'm not connected to them? Is that what you're claiming? That's what my post was in response to that you went off in a different direction about.