Is AT&T losing its grip on the iPhone? ~ great read on cnn

Discussion in 'iPhone' started by EarthDawn, Sep 1, 2009.

  1. alent1234 macrumors 603

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    #2
    you can't just make a VZ version of the iphone. you have to support their version of CDMA, Sprint's CDMA, pay royalties to Qualcomm and maybe even load up software that Qualcomm requires. not 100% sure about the last one. all that for technology that is already obsolete. even if they made a VZ compativle LTE version they still have to support their version of CDMA.

    if you look at apple's products, it's all about selling the same or very similar product in different packages. Minis and imacs are desktop versions of the Macbook Pro. the only desktop Apple sells is the Mac Pro. AppleTV is an iMac with slightly different software. Same thing with Time Machine or Capsule or whatever it's called.

    RIM sells CDMA blackberries that operate on GSM, but they are expensive. and CDMA phones have this annoying "feature" where you can't talk on the phone and use data at the same time
     
  2. wilderness1957 macrumors regular

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    #3
    IF... BIG IF... HUGE IF.... IF Verizon gets the iPhone and all these people switch from AT&T to Verizon they all realize they have to buy a NEW iphone.... One that Verizon ok'd... You think people bitch about AT&T not having MMS, just wait till you see it on Verizon. There are definatly a lot of hurdles to get over before the iPhone comes to Verizon
     
  3. Gix1k macrumors 68030

    Gix1k

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    #4
    I see Verizon trying to put their spin on the firmware with that CDMA, red menu crap they add to all phones that's garbage.
     
  4. patrickdunn macrumors 6502a

    patrickdunn

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    #5
    Not to mention, cripple the heck out of the App Store like they said they would.
     
  5. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #6
    I think when ATT loses the iPhone exclusive I bet we can expect to see iPhone prices jump a lot. Right now Apple is forcing ATT to put a $400 dollar subsidize on the iPhone. The other smart phones only have a $250 subsidize on them. I would expect the careers to bring the subsidize in line with the other phones. I could expect in the future Rim to demand that the subsidize on there phones be that to match the iPhone. That or require the iPhone have it raised.

    Right now the iPhone has a massive pushing unfair market advantage over other smart phones. To be fair iPhone prices need to be raised 150 bucks.

    I also expect come next summer the iPhone will be released to all careers and prices to go up.
     
  6. TuckBodi macrumors 6502

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    #7
    2G iPhones have this same thing too.

    My take is they need to spread the bandwidth out by going with multiple vendors. In the past year I've gone from 3 bars to 2 bars and now to 1/0 bars the past few months at my house (even with a new phone). AT$T is either pulling bandwidth from the 2G space and/or their network is simply overwhelmed. I know I'm not the only unsatisfied customer and pretty soon Apple has to do something as AT$T doesn't care (only about money).
     
  7. jav6454 macrumors P6

    jav6454

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    #8
    It's AT&T and yes, they are pulling 2G bandwidth and injecting it to the 3G systems. There was an article of that a while ago.
     
  8. Maverick1337 macrumors 65816

    Maverick1337

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    #9
    With my iphone 3G, im able to text while talking but i can't use the internet, is this the reason?
     
  9. TuckBodi macrumors 6502

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    #10
    Nope, it's AT$T because they're sucking me dry with all the dropped calls I'm having and business I'm losing (I work from my house). And yeah, while I've read articles surmising they are pulling bandwidth their customer service denies anything going on and in fact blame it on me, my iPhone, Apple and even the tree's in my neighborhood...anything but them. Apple graciously gave me a new iPhone to prove it was not them or the phone, so that leaves me or the tree's. Funny though how my tree's have grown that much, and I have the same problem during the winter when they are dormant, and for the first year *I* was using the phone I was getting 3 bars.
     
  10. FXT 1 macrumors 6502

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    UK
    #11
    The iPhone 3G uses GSM, not CDMA, so sorry you have some other problem :)

    I can talk and surf the web simultaneously, no problem! O2 isn't that bad I guess. :rolleyes:

    "Only over 3G though"
     
  11. Goodeye macrumors 6502a

    Goodeye

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    #12
    Everything else you said was pretty spot on, but the above examples you gave are about the stupidest thing I have ever heard.
     
  12. alent1234 macrumors 603

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    #13
    they all use the same nvidia integrated GPU which is part of the chipset which means they all use the same model motherboard, or a very similar one since the higher end versions have a socket for a discrete GPU. the Mac Pro is a Nehalem CPU which means it has to use desktop parts. iMacs use Core 2 Duo CPU's which are strictly laptop CPU's. with the limited production runs of the time capsule and appleTV it's very likely they are just mac mini's with slightly different software and hard drives

    Apple likes nvidia because they were the first to use a one chip chipset. they've been doing it for almost 10 years starting with the original x-box. starting around 2003 they started selling them to motherboard makers. Intel is only now doing one chip chipsets. before that it was separate northbridge and southbridge chips

    this is why you can buy PC's for so much cheaper for the same performance. they mostly use desktop parts for desktops which are a lot cheaper
     
  13. zookster macrumors member

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    Feb 2, 2009
    #14
    You would think that Verizon would make the jump to GSM at some point. It is a very large pill to swallow, but AT&T did it years ago going from TDMA to GSM. Further, Verizon is 40.3% owned by Vodaphone which is internally a GSM company. I mean it does stand for "Global Standard Mobility" already.

    John
     
  14. FearNo1 macrumors 6502a

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    #15
    Like at+t hasn't?

     
  15. FearNo1 macrumors 6502a

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    #16
    Why would the price increase if other cell services offer iphone? That is against economics. Besides, it has been shown that apple makes a profit on each iphone sold (that is from a cost to sales price ratio)

     
  16. alent1234 macrumors 603

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    #17
    everyone is deploying 4g lte starting this year. Except tmo
     
  17. kdarling macrumors demi-god

    kdarling

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    #18
    Verizon doesn't mess with their smartphone UIs, except to add an optional theme. You can change it right away to any theme available in the world.

    Of course, Apple is against having themes at all.

    Verizon only said they were going to put on a link to their own store... not prevent anyone from continuing to go to other stores if they wished, and downloading any app at all... just as you can do now.

    Which is a lot more app and store choice than Apple or ATT gives. Verizon even allows Slinging over 3G.

    What made sense for Europe, didn't necessarily make sense for the USA. Verizon has always been about network quality. GSM was the cheaper way at first, but had downsides like the infamous GSM buzz, and hard-handoffs, which are drop-prone unlike CDMA.

    Moreover, engineers knew that sooner or later, everyone would have to go to a CDMA air protocol to get 3G speeds and more user capacity. And that's exactly what happened. The GSM carriers switched to W-CDMA radios for 3G.

    The CDMA carriers used... well, CDMA again. That's one reason why they were able to deploy 3G faster and more widely.
     
  18. kdarling macrumors demi-god

    kdarling

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    #19
    Every other phone maker does it. Apple can hire the same outside contractors to do a code port as everyone else does.

    Moreover, Apple went to Verizon before to propose a CDMA phone, so they're obviously not against it.

    Verizon has already said that CDMA will be around for at least ten more years. LTE is not being primarily deployed for phone use.

    If, in ten years, both ATT and Verizon have widely deployed LTE and switched to LTE phones, then both GSM and CDMA will be dead here.
     
  19. thelatinist macrumors 603

    thelatinist

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    #20
    I believe that Verizon will invest the money it would take to switch over to a 2G technology like GSM, a technology ready to be transitioned out over the next five years, especially when they've committed to transitioning to LTE as a 4G data-and-voice technology. I don't think Apple really wants to make a CDMA iPhone, but they may end up making a multi-mode device briefly during the transitional period.

    In the long-term, though, I think that the answer is LTE. My guess is that in 5-6 years both Verizon and AT&T will be rolling out LTE networks, and that new iPhones will be capable of handling LTE data/VoIP with GSM as a backup technology. These phones will work in most Verizon areas, but will have to roam on T-Mobile/AT&T in non-4G areas (perhaps as part of some sort of reciprocal data agreement -- operating two separate and completely overlapping LTE networks makes no economic sense).

    Meanwhile Sprint, with its decision to commit to WIMAX, will be left in the same position as NEXTEL with its iDEN network...
     
  20. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #21
    simple one the other manufactures are going to really start complaining about apple having an unfair market advantage. The iPhone 16G cost more than a Blackberry Bold unsubsidized yet when you put in the $400 it makes it cheaper.

    That is why you could expect the price to increase. More so you can expect the subsidize prices of the iPhone to increase to bring it more in line with other smartphones. It would effectively raise the price with contract for the iPhone $150 bring it in line with everyone else.

    Apple risk getting looked at by the FCC for unfair market advantages because of the much larger subsidized on the iPhone compared to other smart phones
     
  21. thelatinist macrumors 603

    thelatinist

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    #22
    I really don't think they're going to be able to wait that long to switch to LTE, once it becomes clear how much more sense it makes as a technology. 100% IP, with the efficiency of Internet routing and the ability to abandon copper entirely (ending reliance on expensive agreements with Telcos for routing calls). I think in 4-5 years both Verizon and AT&T will have implemented LTE in all major metros, covering 80%+ of their subscribers.
     
  22. alent1234 macrumors 603

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    #23

    see my above post on how Apple does things. sell the same or very similar hardware in different products with minor differences. a CDMA iphone would probably be too much in manufacturing costs since it would be a limited production item. only way we'll see a CDMA iphone is if next year Apple can buy radios that do all frequencies very cheap. even RIM offers CDMA/GSM on only a few phone models

    Dell is the only company i can think of that can do mass customized production efficiently.
     
  23. kdarling macrumors demi-god

    kdarling

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    #24
    Not sure what you mean. The main change would be from phone to tower. Phone companies won't put voice calls over the public internet. They'll still be routing them over their old paths. The phone system is designed around time slot protocols to ensure voice quality. IP is actually a pain to use, in that it's not natively designed for realtime data.

    It shouldn't be that limited. If they sold a reasonable 5-10 million CDMA phones, that would surpass the original models. If they sold to Verizon and Sprint, they could get 12 million sales, which is almost as much as ALL models sold overseas since the beginning.

    Samsung makes some CDMA/GSM models, too.

    PS. My gut unproven feeling is that Jobs is a stumbling block. I think once he leaves for good, Apple will hugely expand its markets.
     
  24. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #25
    you do know that the internet backbone is that old copper system right.

    The internet piggy backs over the telephone system not the other way around. Like some one pointed out voice going IP only is does not have the efficiency you think it has. Voice works on a very reliable time proven system.
     

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