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Is BitTorrent Ethical?

I use Bittorrent all the time, for the same reason I use Soulseek. There are a lot of stuff out there that I can't get on DVD, or sell for outrageous amounts of money in VHS format or something.

I recently downloaded the second season of Twin Peaks. Any fan of the show knows the controversy with the second season being released on DVD, but when it finally is, your damn right I'll delete the files and buy it.

Old video game ROMS is another shady area. It's easy to download 4,000 Super Nintendo games and have them on your computer. They are mostly discontinued, but are still distributed in some cases and it's still considered to be illegal.

All in all, I think I use P2P networks honestly. Some may disagree.

Fishes,
narco.
 
narco said:
I recently downloaded the second season of Twin Peaks...
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Oh really? Might just have to reappraise my stance on downloading stuff then...







No, only kidding. I'm prepared to wait for its DVD release -- what's another year or so after all this time? :rolleyes:
 
Blue Velvet said:
No, only kidding. I'm prepared to wait for its DVD release -- what's another year or so after all this time? :rolleyes:
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I've been saying "what's another year or so" for the past 4 years, I just had to get it! :) It's amazing how much better the second season is too, it'll be nice to (hopefully) get some extras. I know David Lynch has a lot of stuff to release on DVD, but he seems to be taking his sweet time!

Fishes,
narco.
 
Sometimes I miss episodes of Lost and Alias, so I turn to BitTorrent to download them. The TV networks don't make it easy for me to catch my favorite shows on the net, so I have no problems downloading off the net from BT. I could as well record it to VHS or PVR but no, I prefer watching it on my Cinema Display, and commercial free.
 
narco said:
I know David Lynch has a lot of stuff to release on DVD, but he seems to be taking his sweet time!
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Don't blame my lovely David. :mad:

:D

No, it's been tied up in red-tape over distribution rights. Now that Paramount have got it back from Artisan, I expect to see something very soon... the log told me.
 
Lacero said:
Sometimes I miss episodes of Lost and Alias, so I turn to BitTorrent to download them.
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As have I. But ABC has been showing Lost and some other shows on the Weekends, in case you missed it during the Week. WB does that too, Second-Chance Sunday and Charmed on TNT the following Tuesday. Quite nice if you miss something. I was trying to TiVO an episode of FireFly I hadn't seen when they started showing it on Sci-Fi, but I screwed it up and missed the first 20 minutes. I used BT, watched what I missed, and then deleted it. Probably not a good thing, but I wanted to see what happened. Guess I could have gotten the DVD, or waited until they re-ran it... but I didn't.

Just try not to make a habit of it.
 
let me just say one thing to all the people rolling their eyes because my "conscience is hurting" after downloading a tv show on bittorrent.

nothing really makes my conscience hurt. although im a nice guy and i know right from wrong, i dont have guilt trips about things and i won't refrain from doing something because it is illegal. im just thinking about an issue that had me stumped.
 
I think that it's wrong to use bittorrent to download copyrighted material. Being a college student, it's tempting to go and download music, movies, and videos without paying for them as I do already. But it's still wrong, and attempting to justify it doesn't work.

The people who get hurt aren't the record execs or the higher-ups. I agree with Savage Henry, that the plebs get it first. I'd love to stick one to the record industry especially, but downloading music instead of purchasing it isn't the way. In the end, I'd be downloading it for the sake of my having music for free, trying to justify it by saying that I'm rebelling against the greedy record execs.

People are just happy using bittorrent because they don't see the people they hurt, and that it's unlikely for them to get caught. Imagine if you, along with hundreds of thousands of others, could steal from stores without ever getting caught, and don't have to see the jobs that are lost because of it. That's pretty much what's happening nowadays with programs like bittorrent that allow people to steal music. (I won't euphemize it by saying "sharing music.") If you've ever been posed - "If you could get away with [something], would you do it?" - and if you have already chosen to steal music, then you've already answered "yes" to the question.

Bittorrent can be used to legitimate purposes, but if you just look around - 99.99% of the time, it's not.

As for TV shows, I think that's sort of blurry.
 
solvs said:
I used BT, watched what I missed, and then deleted it. Probably not a good thing, but I wanted to see what happened. Guess I could have gotten the DVD, or waited until they re-ran it... but I didn't.

Just try not to make a habit of it.
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Please...give me details as to why you consider this to not be a good thing. Are you so scared and paranoid that you believe you must delete a copy of a TV show? Maybe you have a small HD.

This is what I'm talking about. Timid to even download a TV show to watch something you missed or messed up on a DVR. Kindly explain to me the difference in recording this on a DVR or downloading from BT or P2P. I don't think you can come up with a logical, reasonable answer.

This kind of behavior will further drive our rights into the ground. Sure, pay for stuff you like and think is worth it, but don't be so scared that you won't even download something to try it out first.

Some people in World would have you believe that the very word "download" is bad, wrong, evil, and immoral. This has got to change. Remember, in the end, this is all about super-rich, powerful corporations that already have hordes of money from screwing the artists for decades now crying because they believe they are loosing money. If you want to support this corporate rule, fine go ahead. By you being so scared and timid believing the way you do, we will be corporate-owned ourselves one day...if we aren't already.

It's not like the normal home-user is out of the street selling dvd copies, recorded tv shows, etc for profit. You know the warnings at the beginning of movies that says you can't engage in unauthorized reselling, etc?, well, we are not. Casual home use where no profits are being made should be totally acceptable with noone complaining they are being cheated. Think about it.
 
ZoomZoomZoom said:
If you've ever been posed - "If you could get away with [something], would you do it?" - and if you have already chosen to steal music, then you've already answered "yes" to the question.
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Thats total nonsense. Nice blanket classification of people you have going there. I'm sure you are not as righteous as you make yourself out to be.
 
I can see it now...when going to a friend's house to watch TV, you must pay because you are not directly paying a bill that contributes to the cable signal being piped into his house. Woops, I looked at your TV and noticed it was playing TV Show X, here's a 5 spot for the 5 seconds of illegal viewing.
 
I use bittorrent directly to download IPTV (Systm and the like), and I kind of use it to watch some TV shows that don't really get shown down here within years of release (well, not directly as my brother downloads them.)

I used to pirate music, but then I came across eMusic, and I get all my music from there now :)
 
slimflem said:
Please...give me details as to why you consider this to not be a good thing. Are you so scared and paranoid that you believe you must delete a copy of a TV show? Maybe you have a small HD.

This is what I'm talking about. Timid to even download a TV show to watch something you missed or messed up on a DVR. Kindly explain to me the difference in recording this on a DVR or downloading from BT or P2P. I don't think you can come up with a logical, reasonable answer.

This kind of behavior will further drive our rights into the ground. Sure, pay for stuff you like and think is worth it, but don't be so scared that you won't even download something to try it out first.

Some people in World would have you believe that the very word "download" is bad, wrong, evil, and immoral. This has got to change. Remember, in the end, this is all about super-rich, powerful corporations that already have hordes of money from screwing the artists for decades now crying because they believe they are loosing money. If you want to support this corporate rule, fine go ahead. By you being so scared and timid believing the way you do, we will be corporate-owned ourselves one day...if we aren't already.
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And how is downloading something for free going to give the artists any more money than they would have received from these corporations?

slimflem said:
It's not like the normal home-user is out of the street selling dvd copies, recorded tv shows, etc for profit. You know the warnings at the beginning of movies that says you can't engage in unauthorized reselling, etc?, well, we are not. Casual home use where no profits are being made should be totally acceptable with noone complaining they are being cheated. Think about it.
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The notice actually talks about illegal reproduction, not necessarily selling it.
 
A musician friend of mine told me that while I was registering the information about his CDs in the CDDB, he wouldn't mind if I uploaded his music to some sharing network, so that he would get extra exposure. Of course, I wasn't comfortable doing it but it was one of the best reasons for file sharing--artist promotion.

I don't agree with going against anyone's wishes concerning their own work.

The technology is ethical but some of its uses aren't.
 
belvdr said:
And how is downloading something for free going to give the artists any more money than they would have received from these corporations?

The notice actually talks about illegal reproduction, not necessarily selling it.
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Did you read what I actually wrote? I said, if you like something and you think it is worth it, then buy a copy and pay the person. If not, then don't buy and delete it if you so choose. Why should I pay upfront for something if I don't even know I am going to like it and if it's even worth my money? P2P is great for try before you buy. So yes, I fall somewhere in the middle of this great debate. I have no problems paying for stuff at all, and do. I just don't believe in forking out a lot of money upfront for something I don't like and then not being able to return it because I have been thrown into a stereotype and it's assumed I just copied it and am trying to get something for free.

Man, I'm such a bad person for downloading/"stealing" some music. I'm just the scum of the earth. I should be locked up in prison for trying out some music before I pay for it. I'm not better than any other criminal and downloading music is going to push me into more crime, according to other posters on this forum.

If I can't take something back that I don't like, then I should be able to preview it first...and sometimes a 20 second preview is not good enough. And I'm for damn sure not going to go stand in some mall or best buy listening to their little cd listening stations.
 
slimflem said:
Did you read what I actually wrote? I said, if you like something and you think it is worth it, then buy a copy and pay the person. If not, then don't buy and delete it if you so choose. Why should I pay upfront for something if I don't even know I am going to like it and if it's even worth my money? P2P is great for try before you buy. So yes, I fall somewhere in the middle of this great debate. I have no problems paying for stuff at all, and do. I just don't believe in forking out a lot of money upfront for something I don't like and then not being able to return it because I have been thrown into a stereotype and it's assumed I just copied it and am trying to get something for free.

Man, I'm such a bad person for downloading/"stealing" some music. I'm just the scum of the earth. I should be locked up in prison for trying out some music before I pay for it. I'm not better than any other criminal and downloading music is going to push me into more crime, according to other posters on this forum.

If I can't take something back that I don't like, then I should be able to preview it first...and sometimes a 20 second preview is not good enough.
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Calm down; I simply disagreed with a couple of things you stated. I didn't say anything about you being scum or anything like that.

I still disagree, because if the artist wanted you to be able to download more than a 20 second preview, they would have made that possible. Some people may think they like it by listening to the 20 second preview, and buy it, but then don't like it. That still puts money in the artist's pocket, which according to you and others, aren't getting enough anyway.

slimflem said:
And I'm for damn sure not going to go stand in some mall or best buy listening to their little cd listening stations.
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Why not? That's trying before you buy.

EDIT: I probably missed your point about trying and buying before writing my first reply. I was trying to read them too quickly, and breezed through all three quickly.
 
belvdr said:
Some people may think they like it by listening to the 20 second preview, and buy it, but then don't like it.
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...and then the consumer is screwed. Sorry, no refund.

btw: I am calm. It's just a topic I get worked up about. :D
 
belvdr said:
EDIT: I probably missed your point about trying and buying before writing my first reply. I was trying to read them too quickly, and breezed through all three quickly.
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See, I caught you. At least you admitted it. Many would not.
 
slimflem said:
...and then the consumer is screwed. Sorry, no refund.

btw: I am calm. It's just a topic I get worked up about. :D
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Cool beans about the calmness. I'm not trying to get anyone worked up.. :D

I agree about the refund problem. However, I guess most people would try to buy the CD, rip it, then return it.
 
slimflem said:
Did you read what I actually wrote? I said, if you like something and you think it is worth it, then buy a copy and pay the person. If not, then don't buy and delete it if you so choose. Why should I pay upfront for something if I don't even know I am going to like it and if it's even worth my money? P2P is great for try before you buy. So yes, I fall somewhere in the middle of this great debate. I have no problems paying for stuff at all, and do. I just don't believe in forking out a lot of money upfront for something I don't like and then not being able to return it because I have been thrown into a stereotype and it's assumed I just copied it and am trying to get something for free.

...snip...

If I can't take something back that I don't like, then I should be able to preview it first...and sometimes a 20 second preview is not good enough. And I'm for damn sure not going to go stand in some mall or best buy listening to their little cd listening stations.
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I read through your other posts in this thread, but if I miss some points, please forgive me.

Anyways, what you do is your thing. I'm not going to try and change what you're doing.

The thing I disagree with you is the whole "try before you buy" argument. It seems as you feel you're entitled to try something to see if you like it, and if you do, you'll buy. Well, that's not the way it works. I mean, do you go into a restaurant and take bites out of food to see if you like it first?

If you don't like the way the business model works, then don't participate.

Anyways, you could always listen to the radio to see if you like a band or performer. Or you could go to the library and borrow CDs to see if you like them. There are other options.

Anyways, this is just my opinion. Who's to say I'm right or wrong?
 
slimflem said:
Thats total nonsense. Nice blanket classification of people you have going there. I'm sure you are not as righteous as you make yourself out to be.
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Whatever floats your boat, but thanks for making a personal attack. I can claim to not have pirated/illegally downloaded anything since I sorted through that it was wrong. (Yes, I buy all my music, and I had to use a trial version of Macromedia Flash because I couldn't afford it.) And why is my earlier statement total nonsense? It's stealing all the same. And as for a blanket classification, what is there to prove me wrong? The internet has music thievery not only because of the wrecked recording industry, but because people don't (often) get caught.

You make arguments for the "Try before you buy." Firstly, you can listen to small clips if you want on ITMS/amazon and such. And if that's not good enough for you, and if you - along with many other people out there - have to listen to songs a few times in order to make a decision - then there's a mistake somewhere with the record industry's business model. Even though your method is more efficient, the record industry still holds the rights to the music, so it is still stealing in the sense that you take what you did not pay for. And, most people don't do what you do and actually purchase the music. They just sit with thousands of songs on their HDs, not paying a cent. I don't think that you quite understand the problem here - it's already obvious that the record/other companies put the customer in a pickle, but the ethics of bittorrent still lie in customer response to the companies' screw ups. Their mistakes don't give the public the right to put the law into their own hands, to steal or "try before you buy."

In the end, if you look at all of the justifications, you wouldn't be able to reproduce (respectively) your actions on bittorrent at a brick-and-mortar store. It's just taking something without paying for it, not getting caught, and then trying to weasel out of guilt.
 
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