Is Google that bad?

[jamezr]

I don't think anyone has said Apple is the same as Meta

These 3 instances are your proof that Apple and Google are identical in how they deal with privacy and selling user data?

One company data mines everything you do and sells it to the highest bidder as a business model. The other company collects data that .... is needed for operations of apps... Lawsuit still pending... And the Siri thing was the iPhone triggering microphone when it thought people said Hey Siri. And that's how Apple is identical to Google?

Yeah nope. Apple does not do the same thing. Did you actually read the articles? You are not helping your cause.

Even Marques' latest video acknowledges that using a FitBit is to give your data to a company that data mines and sells everything you do. Apple does NOT do this. A lot of other companies do this to an extent but nowhere near the extent that Google does this.

I was willing to hear you out but you have provided no proof or support of your argument.

Now I give you kudos for not trusting any company. This, again, is why I run an encrypted DNS service at the Profile level of Mac OS and adblockers at the OS level.

I don't think anyone has said Apple is the same as Meta or Google. Google's business model is data........ we all know that.
But then Apple monetizes our data as well. They might use it for their own purposes like using our data to sell us their own services. But they still monetize our data. They would just rather use our data to sell or promote their OWN services. This way THEY make money from our data and not some outside data broker.
But don't be so naive as to think they do not monetize our data.

 

[BigMcGuire]

I don't think anyone has said Apple is the same as Meta

I don't think anyone has said Apple is the same as Meta or Google. Google's business model is data........ we all know that.
But then Apple monetizes our data as well. They might use it for their own purposes like using our data to sell us their own services. But they still monetize our data. They would just rather use our data to sell or promote their OWN services. This way THEY make money from our data and not some outside data broker.
But don't be so naive as to think they do not monetize our data.

Steve Adam's argument is that Apple is the same as Google. Maybe I mis-read that.

I will give you that Apple is starting to head in that direction - especially with the explosion of their services revenue and putting ads in Maps, App Store, etc. But it isn't the primary means of revenue for now.

Agreed - they definitely monetize our data internally - but not by selling our data to the highest bidder (for now). I understand that Google anonymizes before selling.

My AdGuard Encrypted DNS blocked logs - Last 90 days. Note: I don't use Google services if I can help it. Apple is #2 on the blocked requests list.

 

[BigMcGuire]

Also I understand that this is an Alternatives to iOS thread. Google is a great alternative to iOS. Google Photos is unparalleled. Gmail is amazing. Google Drive is great (when it doesn't throttle you which everyone does today).

I would encourage adblockers and encrypted DNS but for most people, this is something that most are unwilling and don't care to do.

Like Steve Adams mentioned - you can turn off a lot of the tracking. There are some amazing privacy focused Android options (Pixel, FairPhone, Graphene OS, etc). Anyone who hasn't tried Android - I'd highly recommend they do so. You need to try it yourself.

I don't think most people care that their data is being sold - based on the # of users who use Facebook / Google / etc... So "Is Google Bad" is subjective. Google is similar to most other companies - they're in business to make $. How they do it is different than most (scale/how/etc). Their products are very good, if not the best (especially services).

 

[Steve Adams]

These 3 instances are your proof that Apple and Google are identical in how they deal with privacy and selling user data?

One company data mines everything you do and sells it to the highest bidder as a business model. The other company collects data that .... is needed for operations of apps... Lawsuit still pending... And the Siri thing was the iPhone triggering microphone when it thought people said Hey Siri. And that's how Apple is identical to Google?

Yeah nope. Apple does not do the same thing. Did you actually read the articles? You are not helping your cause.

Even Marques' latest video acknowledges that using a FitBit is to give your data to a company that data mines and sells everything you do. Apple does NOT do this. A lot of other companies do this to an extent but nowhere near the extent that Google does this.

Whatever helps you sleep at night my friend. It's all good and it's all the same. Enjoy. If you don't want data collection and spying 1. stop using a smartphone, dumb phone etc, and get off the internet. Everything and everyone is collecting what you do to make money.

That's the long and short of it. Marques is a known Apple fan, He tries to nitpick their product but down low he's apple through and through. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but he tries to come off as impartial.

As I have said Many many many times, They are all the same and don't pick anything because of privacy because there is none if you are using smart devices. Don't pick a company because THEY tell you they don't sell your data. They all do. Pick a company or product you enjoy using.

 

[Steve Adams]

Steve Adam's argument is that Apple is the same as Google. Maybe I mis-read that.

I will give you that Apple is starting to head in that direction - especially with the explosion of their services revenue and putting ads in Maps, App Store, etc. But it isn't the primary means of revenue for now.

Agreed - they definitely monetize our data internally - but not by selling our data to the highest bidder (for now). I understand that Google anonymizes before selling.

My AdGuard Encrypted DNS blocked logs - Last 90 days. Note: I don't use Google services if I can help it. Apple is #2 on the blocked requests list.
View attachment 2632954

I did say that, somewhat. I said, that they all collect data, they all sell your data. To what amount is illrelevant. They all do it. But some "CLAIM" they don't.

 

[robvalentine]

Whatever helps you sleep at night my friend. It's all good and it's all the same. Enjoy. If you don't want data collection and spying 1. stop using a smartphone, dumb phone etc, and get off the internet. Everything and everyone is collecting what you do to make money.

That's the long and short of it. Marques is a known Apple fan, He tries to nitpick their product but down low he's apple through and through. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but he tries to come off as impartial.

As I have said Many many many times, They are all the same and don't pick anything because of privacy because there is none if you are using smart devices. Don't pick a company because THEY tell you they don't sell your data. They all do. Pick a company or product you enjoy using.

My take on the video is that they were recording the data to present back to the user, which is essentially what you get the fitbit air for. I know Garmin get and use the data from my watch. Just like Apple, whoop, Google, Suunto etc. I think some posters on here are misreading what he says about data collection. A fitness tracker without data is useless.

 

[BigMcGuire]

My take on the video is that they were recording the data to present back to the user, which is essentially what you get the fitbit air for. I know Garmin get and use the data from my watch. Just like Apple, whoop, Google, Suunto etc. I think some posters on here are misreading what he says about data collection. A fitness tracker without data is useless.

16:26
"... from Google, and we know Google, a company that famously wants all of your data because they're literally a data and ads company and the more they know about people the more money they can make. Of course it's Google that's willing to buy fitbit and then sell a subsidized fitness tracker to get it in as many people's hands as possible to get as much data from those people as they can. That's just something to keep in mind because it's Google."

(My own attempt at typing out what he said so it may not be 100% perfect).

Misreading what he says about data collection? ......... He called out one company specifically and that company's practices....

This is a good example of different business models - Apple isn't subsidizing their hardware by selling your data like Google does. Apple would lose money doing that.

 

[BigMcGuire]

I did say that, somewhat. I said, that they all collect data, they all sell your data. To what amount is illrelevant. They all do it. But some "CLAIM" they don't.

Hey we can disagree on some parts and agree on others and I'm cool with that. If everyone thought the same way I did - this world would be boring as heck. I appreciate your views and the pleasant chats we had - your views helped me learn a bit more about data collection by all companies (Apple included) - not just business models that result from data collection (Google).

Hope you have a great Wednesday and hope to see you around on the forums here.

 

[robvalentine]

16:26
"... from Google, and we know Google, a company that famously wants all of your data because they're literally a data and ads company and the more they know about people the more money they can make. Of course it's Google that's willing to buy fitbit and then sell a subsidized fitness tracker to get it in as many people's hands as possible to get as much data from those people as they can. That's just something to keep in mind because it's Google."

(My own attempt at typing out what he said so it may not be 100% perfect).

Misreading what he says about data collection? ......... He called out one company specifically and that company's practices....

TBH I didn't watch that far, but he mentioned data at the start and My point about Apple, Whoop, Garmin etc still stands. Google wants your data for advertising, Apple wants your data for advertising. A fitness device without data is useless. Strava needs your data for their heatmaps, (if you use data that is). The data collection stick you are using also applies to the Apple fitness app. It's just that Apple gouges your wallet too.

 

[BigMcGuire]

TBH I didn't watch that far, but he mentioned data at the start and My point about Apple, Whoop, Garmin etc still stands. Google wants your data for advertising, Apple wants your data for advertising. A fitness device without data is useless. Strava needs your data for their heatmaps, (if you use data that is). The data collection stick you are using also applies to the Apple fitness app. It's just that Apple gouges your wallet too.

It was a very long video. I would never pay a subscription for a health tracker - especially not one like Whoop - but that's me lol. Some people have $ to throw at that. My wife and I spent a lot of time this year getting rid of most of the subscriptions we could and it was amazing how much we saved per month (Could buy an Apple Watch every few months with the $ we are saving). So I'll avoid subscriptions like the plague, lol.

I agree with everything you said except the Apple part - Apple doesn't make a habit of selling user data for advertising. Apple's primary income is from hardware sales - not selling user data to the highest bidder and selling ads as a business model - unlike Google.

I am so tempted to go to a basic Casio G-shock. 😛

 

[Steve Adams]

It was a very long video. I would never pay a subscription for a health tracker - especially not one like Whoop - but that's me lol. Some people have $ to throw at that. My wife and I spent a lot of time this year getting rid of most of the subscriptions we could and it was amazing how much we saved per month (Could buy an Apple Watch every few months with the $ we are saving). So I'll avoid subscriptions like the plague, lol.

I agree with everything you said except the Apple part - Apple doesn't make a habit of selling user data for advertising. Apple's primary income is from hardware sales - not selling user data to the highest bidder and selling ads as a business model - unlike Google.

I am so tempted to go to a basic Casio G-shock. 😛

G-shock addict here. They are great. Casio, timex, citizen, etc are all great affordable time pieces that never need updates and will last forever as long as you keep batteries in them. I am done with all that stuff too. I am not bothering with smartwatches. It's a waste of money and other way to milk you out of your cash. With subs for all features to work, and then after 4 or 5 years that 1000 dollars is rendered basically useless because they stop updating them because of "hardware constraints". What a scam.

I have the first ever publically released G-Shock model still. I am missing the strap loop for the end of the strap. I also have hamilton, rolex, breitling and other watches too. Sort of my jam. I am done with the boutique models however, they are always having to go in for servicing every year or so. My wife's gold/stainless tudor is needing service now and it's going to cost like 1500.00 bucks just for that. Timex? wind it up again and go.

 

[throAU]

These 3 instances are your proof that Apple and Google are identical in how they deal with privacy and selling user data?

One company data mines everything you do and sells it to the highest bidder as a business model. The other company collects data that .... is needed for operations of apps... Lawsuit still pending... And the Siri thing was the iPhone triggering microphone when it thought people said Hey Siri. And that's how Apple is identical to Google?

BUT BRO

SEEING WHAT I LOOK AT ON THE APPLE APP STORE BY USING THE APPLE APP STORE TO REQUEST CONTENT FROM THEIR SITE IS UNACCEPTABLE!


ffs... some people.

 

[jamezr]

This is what I love about this sub forum... @BigMcGuire and @robvalentine and @Steve Adams and I can all have differing opinions and still have a polite discussion. We can all respect that we have different thoughts and not make things personal.
Thanks guys for the observations and information!

 

[BigMcGuire]

G-shock addict here. They are great. Casio, timex, citizen, etc are all great affordable time pieces that never need updates and will last forever as long as you keep batteries in them. I am done with all that stuff too. I am not bothering with smartwatches. It's a waste of money and other way to milk you out of your cash. With subs for all features to work, and then after 4 or 5 years that 1000 dollars is rendered basically useless because they stop updating them because of "hardware constraints". What a scam.

I have the first ever publically released G-Shock model still. I am missing the strap loop for the end of the strap. I also have hamilton, rolex, breitling and other watches too. Sort of my jam. I am done with the boutique models however, they are always having to go in for servicing every year or so. My wife's gold/stainless tudor is needing service now and it's going to cost like 1500.00 bucks just for that. Timex? wind it up again and go.

I bought my first G-Shock this year (2 months ago). A GW-5000U-1JF from Japan. It ... is ... amazing... 20+ year battery life. No subscriptions. It kicked off my wife and I cutting all the subscriptions we could last month/this month. We got rid of cellular on our Apple Watches and we won't be upgrading our stuff anytime soon (if ever, for me).

It was a slap in the face to see how much $ we were spending upgrading our Apple stuff every 2 years even with trade in (not to mention Verizon Wireless cellular on our watches ($640+/2 years)).

These companies do a great job separating me from my $. Amen. lol.

I am a new G-shock convert. Watching all of the "Good Time Keeping Show by Greg Anderson" YouTube videos.

 

[Steve Adams]

This is what I love about this sub forum... @BigMcGuire and @robvalentine and @Steve Adams and I can all have differing opinions and still have a polite discussion. We can all respect that we have different thoughts and not make things personal.
Thanks guys for the observations and information!

One Hundred Million percent. Don't take things as a personal attack, an attack against a family memeber etc. It's not. It's point out things that maybe difficult to hear but people need to know ALL these companies are in it for themselves. Once you come to that realization life becomes much freer. I use all platforms because I am not blind to think one is better than the other looking out for my best intentions.

But being adults while having a convo is great. I appreciate it.

 

[Steve Adams]

BUT BRO

SEEING WHAT I LOOK AT ON THE APPLE APP STORE BY USING THE APPLE APP STORE TO REQUEST CONTENT FROM THEIR SITE IS UNACCEPTABLE!


ffs... some people.

No need to yell. we are all adults here.

 

[Steve Adams]

I bought my first G-Shock this year (2 months ago). A GW-5000U-1JF from Japan. It ... is ... amazing... 20+ year battery life. No subscriptions. It kicked off my wife and I cutting all the subscriptions we could last month/this month. We got rid of cellular on our Apple Watches and we won't be upgrading our stuff anytime soon (if ever, for me).

It was a slap in the face to see how much $ we were spending upgrading our Apple stuff every 2 years even with trade in (not to mention Verizon Wireless cellular on our watches ($640+/2 years)).

These companies do a great job separating me from my $. Amen. lol.

I am a new G-shock convert. Watching all of the "Good Time Keeping Show by Greg Anderson" YouTube videos.

Like I said, check out the timex, regular casio, citizen, seiko etc. If you want to talk affordable watches, let me know!

 

[Steve Adams]

Steve Adam's argument is that Apple is the same as Google. Maybe I mis-read that.

I will give you that Apple is starting to head in that direction - especially with the explosion of their services revenue and putting ads in Maps, App Store, etc. But it isn't the primary means of revenue for now.

Agreed - they definitely monetize our data internally - but not by selling our data to the highest bidder (for now). I understand that Google anonymizes before selling.

My AdGuard Encrypted DNS blocked logs - Last 90 days. Note: I don't use Google services if I can help it. Apple is #2 on the blocked requests list.
View attachment 2632954

Need to circle back to this chart which has very very interesting data. Compare the requests. That's the telling stat in all of this. WHO IS NUMBER ONE?

 

[BigMcGuire]

Need to circle back to this chart which has very very interesting data. Compare the requests. That's the telling stat in all of this. WHO IS NUMBER ONE?

It helps I'm on a Mac and heavily involved in the Apple Ecosystem. Most of those requests get let through because I use Apple services heavily (way too engrained for my liking (I went back to FastMail from Apple Mail earlier this year)). It is a LOT of requests.

I probably send/receive a few hundred iMessages per day, I got 64k photos and 2k videos, and I use Safari as much as I can. (I use Music, Apple Notes, iCloud Drive, etc).

Still glad my Encrypted DNS is blocking the tracker portions of those requests (which I use on my iPad, iPhone, and Mac - and even work machines).

 

[Steve Adams]

When I set up my entire system in our new house when we move, I will get some similar data to see how it shows when using google phones and windows. Going to be very interesting.

 

[BigMcGuire]

When I set up my entire system in our new house when we move, I will get some similar data to see how it shows when using google phones and windows. Going to be very interesting.

I look forward to your results - definitely agree. One thing I'll give Android/Windows is you can do a lot more lock down of how traffic flows if you want. Only fairly recently were we able to set up encrypted DNS via a profile on Mac OS (3-5 years?).

 

[MarkX]

@Steve Adams

1500 for a service! Are you getting a new movement?

I've been in to collecting watches for years, some expensive, some cheap and have never paid that for a watch service.

You shouldn't be having to service a watch every couple of years either, depending on the model it can be as much as 10 years like newer Rolexes.

 

[Steve Adams]

@Steve Adams

1500 for a service! Are you getting a new movement?

I've been in to collecting watches for years, some expensive, some cheap and have never paid that for a watch service.

You shouldn't be having to service a watch every couple of years either, depending on the model it can be as much as 10 years like newer Rolexes.

Don't think so. That's canadian dollars as well. I don't know what it needs, it's not keeping time at all. It was my mothers and was passed down to my wife.

 

[Technerd108]

Don't think so. That's canadian dollars as well. I don't know what it needs, it's not keeping time at all. It was my mothers and was passed down to my wife.

Maybe buy her a new watch? $1500 can buy a nice watch for her? Mechanical movements generally need servicing around 5-10 years. Seiko and Orient movements like 4r35 may run closer to 20 years without needing service. Service costs can vary widely by brand and what they need to do. Seiko service should cost under $200 while ETA style movements around $300 or you can just replace the movement for less?

If you like analog and digital watches there are a few nerds on here like myself. There are some very nice affordable watches under $400. There are mainstream brands, micro brands and Chinese micro brands like San Martin or Watchdives, etc. Watchuseek.com is a decent resource. Affordable Watches Forum.

 

[cbsnbiker]

When signing up for Google, we all agree to their terms of service - which is as clear as crystal in the documentation, and which we agree to in order to sign on. I agree to and like their collection of my data, because it targets advertising to my desires and interests, which is as convenient as heck. Their "how" is valid because 1. It's useful; and 2. We agree to it in the sign-up process.

However, if you don't want that to happen, then don't sign up for Google.

I agreed to nothing of the sort.

I have never signed up for Google. I have never created a Google account. I have never had a Gmail account. I stopped using Google as a search engine well over a decade ago. Etc.

Yet, Google has hoovered up all sorts of data on me, without my consent. This started with harvesting my contact and other info from the address books of hundreds of persons, back in the early days of Google and Gmail (or possibly earlier). This hoovering continues to this day.

I have no power to remove this data. None of us do.

Of course, Google is not unique in this. Facebook is also guilty of this. It has volumes of data on me without my consent, posted by others, despite my never having subscribed to it.

And so forth.

I remember when the World Wide Web went live. I was concerned about privacy. I and many others advocated for strong privacy protections. We were ignored. Here we are.