Is it possible to be happier outside the Apple ecosystem?

[Cuesca]

I've literally never bothered to check into this and my experience with displays has been fine. The one exception I can think of was my 5K iMac, which developed some image retention. Had that replaced under AppleCare and went on using it just fine.

When the first non-optical drive MBP came out LG screens were notorious for retention. I traded in 5 of those for the screen alone. I also got Apple care and 2 years later the Samsung screen was replaced with an LG when it got damage. Luckily it had very minor retention. In 2017 I returned 3 MBP because the LG screens was just more faded than Samsung which tend to be look warmer for me. Some people also prefer the LG screens due to PWM issues but those don't affect me. Then the keyboard gave out. MBA M2 I think I went through just 2 so Apple is getting better with their QC. This is just Macbooks alone.

The trade in was way worst for iPhones and especially iPads(I think I returned/rebought 6 M4 13" because most of the screens are so bad), I paid premium money so I kinda expect a premium product. The customer service at the Apple Store is great though, I think the one in Northridge knows me by name at this point.

 

[Bungaree.Chubbins]

TBQH I think Apple is happier to be getting rid of me...

I've return and rebought countless devices ranging from the iPhone to iPads to MacBooks to get the right screen(I would buy something, check if it has an LG screen and if it does return it ASAP) because of the display lottery. Apple's customer service is great, but I must be on their list or something by now. If I were to guess how many products I've exchanged because of the display lottery it must be in the number of around 300 devices from 2010 to now.

I think by far the worst was the iPad Mini 6, returned 8 times until I got one with acceptable jelly scroll.

Wow, you must be very picky, and have amazing eyesight!

I’ve returned maybe 3 Apple products, max, since I started buying them with my iPod nano in 2006. I think my iPhone 4, 5s, and 6s each developed minor niggles for which Apple gave me a replacement unit.

 

[Cuesca]

Wow, you must be very picky, and have amazing eyesight!

I’ve returned maybe 3 Apple products, max, since I started buying them with my iPod nano in 2006. I think my iPhone 4, 5s, and 6s each developed minor niggles for which Apple gave me a replacement unit.

No, just cursed with mega OCD. I am someone who would pay $500-$1000 to fix a door ding. When it comes to technology I hate things like light leaks, uneven brightness or yellowing areas on the screen which I happen to run across a lot in the lower end iPads, Airs and Minis as well as some Surface Pro tablets. The iPad Pro with OLED seems to have improved on this however I am still seeing some light leaks. But the major issues with those are crackling speakers which for an over 1k device is not acceptable for me.

 

[throAU]

You’ve glossed over a lot of the other vendor drawbacks outside of the integration.

 

[anthony131]

I’ve been trying to ween myself off of the Apple products over the past couple years. It’s been frustrating, as a very long term user, watching this company continue to make the user experience measurably worse year over year. Unfortunately, in my experience, even a downgrade in an Apple experience is still better than how most replacement services integrate with Apple devices.
For example, I’ve been using Arc on my phone. It’s great for my primary needs - to look things up while I’m away from my computer - but it has poor password integration and essentially no bookmarking. I mean, if you’re a power browser person, get an Android.
I’ve also subscribed to the Proton suite but it has its own fallbacks as well - in part, the poor password integration.
I just feel like *everything* is getting worse with each software or hardware upgrade. Might be time to give Android a shot.
More to your point though, it is incredibly difficult and time consuming to break the connections within the Apple ecosystem.

 

[Bungaree.Chubbins]

No, just cursed with mega OCD. I am someone who would pay $500-$1000 to fix a door ding. When it comes to technology I hate things like light leaks, uneven brightness or yellowing areas on the screen which I happen to run across a lot in the lower end iPads, Airs and Minis as well as some Surface Pro tablets. The iPad Pro with OLED seems to have improved on this however I am still seeing some light leaks. But the major issues with those are crackling speakers which for an over 1k device is not acceptable for me.

Fair enough. Some of this is because I have no choice. There are a few dings in my car (that were there when I got it) that I would very much love to get fixed, but it's just not on the priority list at the moment.

My iPhone 5 screen has yellowed enough for me to notice, and if my main phone were like that I too would be irritated. The (dubious) benefit I have is that my eyesight is crap. Insofar as I can tell, my MacBook Pro's screen is perfect, certainly it is better than the 28" Samsung UE590 screens attached to it. My iPhone 14's was fantastic, right up until I smashed it, now I'm trying to figure out how to find the money to get it fixed.

When I used my Mum's A16 iPad to check it out, I didn't notice anything untoward with the screen. It looked great to me, but then I think that my iPad Air 2's screen still looks pretty good...

 

[arc of the universe]

...For me, the most important factor in this debate is price...

after a long, long post, in the last sentence, that is what you wrote.

i totally am there with you! if its price you want, or need, then there are great alternatives to apple. go for it. im sure it will be great for you.

here is why i stay with apple:

- history
- quality
- design
- long term oriented product specs
- marketing
- values

if you want to know what i mean by these, read on.

history: apple was my first computer. my first mobile fon. my first tablet. my first cloud backup system. (history is different from "eco-system")

quality: there is a reason why apple is consistently voted at or near the top in its customer service, every year. its not only because their apple care is the world's envy, its because they build quality into their devices so that they can estimate their product life, and do a great job of supporting your device for a very long time.

design: when i pick up my M4 MacBook Air, there is a way it feels in your hand, with rounded corners that you know it was very well thought out and designed and machined. good design did not die with the exit of Jony Ives. it continues on.

long term oriented product specs: i have confidence that the long term product direction of apple has told me that i need 16GB of RAM and an M4 machine to weather out the future road map of AI. no other company does this. with other companies, they drop things and entire lines and directions very easily.

marketing: owning apple makes you feel good about your decision to invest in it. they do this very well.

values: i share their values. i want to support such a company. no other company is even thinking that protecting my privacy is important. all other companies are feeding at the trough of using and re-using my info to make more money. only apple is trying to make money by protecting my privacy.

if it were only about an "eco-system" then i would have moved to google several years back. i think the software "eco-system" they have built is truly great.

 

[TracerAnalog]

Of course people can be happy without Apple (or any other brand). Data collection policy and quality are major deciding factors for me.

With Apple I have the impression they at least try to respect my privacy, whereas Google just milks your data for everything you have. I don't like targeted ads, I loath tracking, I absolutely hate everything Meta. I have to spend a lot of time and effort disabling Windows and Android features so I can use those products privately.

The hardware outside Apple is a mixed bag. In my experience you can go (way) cheaper than buying Apple, but often it is clear why things are cheaper, and of lower quality. If you spend 'Apple money' on other brands however, you definitely can get some good tech with innovative features.

 

[naught@home]

It is possible, but it's not probable…

 

[RSB96]

As a user of both platforms, I honestly don't think you're necessarily going to be happier outside the ecosystem than inside.

On Android you have amazing hardware, I love my Galaxy Fold and it works great, while the iPhone is... fine. It's a good phone, with very good hardware, but it doesn't impress or feel "wow" as it did years ago (no normal phone really has that "wow" factor for years, we're not going to fool ourselves).

On tablets, I still believe that just because of the quality of the apps, the iPad is superior, although the Galaxy Tab Ultra is an exceptional device, the iPad is light years away in screen calibration, raw power, specific apps and software updates. One UI's software is very powerful, but with iOS 26 the difference seems to have narrowed enormously between the two OSes.

On watches, I like the Apple Watch more than the Galaxy Watch 8 Classic I have, for battery life and software, although this may be unusual. It has better features in training than the Apple Watch, because when you run and stop because there is a traffic light or a crosswalk, the training is automatically paused, super fast and resumed super fast again, which with the Apple Watch you have to do manually (or it warns you that you are not moving after several minutes, which, in short stops like the ones I mention, makes no sense).

And then comes the synchronization between devices that on Android... is not so good. Yes, you have the Galaxy ecosystem, as is my case, it has some features similar to those offered by Apple, although not all, but if you do not have the Samsung ecosystem forget something as comfortable as the universal clipboard (something I use a lot).

The best headphones I've tested have been the Pixel Buds Pro 2. They sound great, have good noise cancellation and the microphone is by far the best of all. Galaxy Buds Pro and AirPods have mediocre microphones, or their algorithm is much worse than Google's.

For me, although I like a current Android phone much more than an iPhone (for the foldable factor), and although I use the Android/Windows ecosystem at work, I would not change the entire ecosystem only for mobile, at least in my experience, since in the end what I use most in everyday life is the computer/tablet, so I find it more convenient iPad/Mac than Android tablet/PC

 

[The Game 161]

I can't stick to one now

Apple will always have my money for ecosystem but couldn't use just apple now

 

[uacd]

S25 Ultra

It was recently sold for literally 600 EUR in Netherlands (256GB model). It is 16 Pro Max level phone!

I didn't buy it because unfortunately there is widespread hardware fault with this model - OIS and AF somehow "fall off" and phone can not focus anymore. Don't want to deal with servicing a new phone or replacements, will wait for newer model.

And as for your question: one ABSOLUTELY can be happy outside Apple.
Life is not about tech, and people often forget about that.

Moreover, with so many bugs and issues, one can be depressed inside Apple's ecosystem. Yeah yeah yeah, that's me! I keep using it only because I have wasted lots of money and it would be unsustainable to go and waste even more to replace it with Windows+Android. When my Apple devices die or go fully obsolete I will probably give alternatives a chance, especially consdering I am not new to Android and Windows and know how to work with them, just don't have them at home

 

[TechnoMonk]

My happiness doesn’t depend on Apple or any devices. These are tools, and Apple integrated ecosystem makes it easier for me with out hacks. If I liked tinkering, I would use non Apple ecosystem.
I have realized long time ago that better specs mean nothing if the experience is poor, I buy devices to use not gloat on specs.

 

[skottichan]

As someone who's neck deep in the Apple ecosystem...


Yeah. I mean, people should be happy with whatever they choose.

 

[BigMcGuire]

I’m a big believer in, you don’t miss what you don’t know. Most people I know are heavily one side or the other. I was Android, switched to Apple after Ice Cream Sandwich (Note 3 was a great phone). I am very happy with Apple - privacy, ease of integration with my data and settings thanks to iCloud.

Now… I have thousands of dollars of Apple TV movies, Apple Books, and Apple Music. And of course, it’s not even possible to move that out of the eco-system.

Heavily reliant on iMessage. 99.9% of my texting is done on my Mac. I just can’t imagine texting on a phone (which I do if I have to (voice to text)).

I use my LLM of choice (Grok), I use my email of choice (Fastmail), weather app of choice (Carrot), Signal Messenger for a few family chat (some family is not Apple), etc so I’m not 100% tied into the ecosystem but the ecosystem is nice.

AirPods instantly available and switch instantly to any of my Apple devices - even my watch? Wow. Convenient. Amazing. I have gripes about iCloud but it’s worked nicely for me for over a decade now.

 

[jz0309]

I've actually lived a pretty happy life before there was an internet, leave alone smartphones and some "gadget" ecosystem.
Sometimes I really think the world was a better place back then ...

 

[Harthag]

I've actually lived a pretty happy life before there was an internet, leave alone smartphones and some "gadget" ecosystem.
Sometimes I really think the world was a better place back then ...

100%. Fond memories of actually calling girls on the phone to ask them out without any text or messaging BS. Had to just roll with it on the fly and hope 😂 . As soon as AIM and ICQ became a thing the downfall of humanity began.

 

[Astuces iOS]

Is it possible to be happier outside the Apple ecosystem?

No it's impossible guys.

 

[robvalentine]

I’ve been trying to ween myself off of the Apple products over the past couple years. It’s been frustrating, as a very long term user, watching this company continue to make the user experience measurably worse year over year. Unfortunately, in my experience, even a downgrade in an Apple experience is still better than how most replacement services integrate with Apple devices.
For example, I’ve been using Arc on my phone. It’s great for my primary needs - to look things up while I’m away from my computer - but it has poor password integration and essentially no bookmarking. I mean, if you’re a power browser person, get an Android.
I’ve also subscribed to the Proton suite but it has its own fallbacks as well - in part, the poor password integration.
I just feel like *everything* is getting worse with each software or hardware upgrade. Might be time to give Android a shot.
More to your point though, it is incredibly difficult and time consuming to break the connections within the Apple ecosystem.

THis maybe just me, but I found that third party alternate apps work quite well, and sync over google drive, so I can sync notes through nebo from my pixel, galaxy tab, iPad pro, macbook pro, and windows laptop easily. One drive would also do the trick, and I imagine dropbox too. I don't like notifications from my phone on my laptop though to be fair. Apart from whatsapp, but that's an even easier sync than Nebo.

I love my Mac, but for my uni course Windows has run smoother. I sold my iphone 16 pro to return to my pixel 9 pro as it's more usable software wise imho

 

[AlaskaMoose]

These days, it seems most people still stay within the Apple ecosystem because of the tight integration between their devices, but outside that factor, what other advantages are there to keep buying Apple products?

I was thinking... maybe one can be happier outside the Apple ecosystem? There are many reasons for it:

- More hardware to choose from, whether that's phones, tablets, laptops, smartwatches, etc.

More often, other brands offer way better hardware (screens, storage, ram, batteries, cameras, wired and wireless charging speeds...) for less money, and you can often find unbelievable deals on these products, like with Samsung.

I mean, less than 2 months after the Z Fold 7 release, I've seen the device 400€ cheaper (1.550€ outright). If you fandom a slim device, the S25 Edge can now be bought for 850€.

These are amazing prices for top notch hardware. Meanwhile, Apple is still selling the latest base iPhone 16 with 128GB and 60Hz screen for 800€...

Same can be said with tablets and smartwatches. The most expensive smartwatches can be found way cheaper 6 months after release.

Then, you have other Android benefits, like better AI features, Gemini, more customization, more consistent navigation throughout the OS, better multitasking, being able to download torrents, etc. Now Google and Samsung guarantee 7 years of OS updates, so not an Apple benefit anymore.

You can pair a Google or Huawei watch with a Samsung or Oppo, you can use an Ultra tablet with a Xiaomi phone, etc. Maybe the integration isn't as tight as with Apple or between same brand devices, but it's not terrible either. Now we have Android Quick Share for easy file transfers, but there's also third party options, like Blip, which works as good.

Having better hardware (Apple still doesn't have foldables, for example), more options, sometimes better software (now more obvious than ever with AI), and all that for much less money than with Apple.

So, if one doesn't need the super tight integration of Apple devices, can they be happier outside of their ecosystem?

For me, the most important factor in this debate is price. Being able to buy an S25 Ultra or Edge when there's discounts for the same price as the base iPhone 16 is just crazy.

The whole ball of wax amounts to the following: One usually is the most comfortable with whichever ecosystem one is most familiar with, the one that has provided the most pleasant experiences. It is about one's experiences based on one's likes and dislikes.

In reality, the older Mac users like myself enjoyed "tinkering" with our Macs (repairing it if needed, upgrading the RAM or hard drives, video cards, and so on... all geared to extend the usefulness of the Mac at hand). This is something that, for the same reasons, a lot of PC users had and still do these days. One can't ignore the fact that there are a lot more PC users than Mac's, and in my view this trend will continue in the PC user community.

I care the least about system integration the way Apple has done. I don't need a notice (notification) to tell me that another device has been added to my account, nor about Apple News, or iCloud, not even About Apple Pushing its Music (I want to listen to my Playlists), not even having my Contacts/passwords/Calendars/Notes/Music/Photos & Videos, and on and on stored in iCloud. I don't even want Apple AI in my iPhones, iPads, and Macs in my household. The bottomline is that I don't like being lead by the nose by Apple.

That said, I would be very happy with either a Mac or PC that I could upgrade myself. But now that I have spent years using Mac OS-X and feel that I would be wasting a lot of time learning the PC, I just grind mu teeth and pay the exorbitant costs of a Mac that would be nearly obsolete a few years later.