Is it possible to be happier outside the Apple ecosystem?

[sjsharksfan12]

Do you just need something with the Apple TV app?

Apple TV app - Devices

The Apple TV app and Apple TV+ are available on a wide variety of streaming platforms, popular smart TVs, and AirPlay‑enabled TVs.

www.apple.com

Or just any streaming device like the Fire Cube or Roku. I already have a Roku though, even though it's a few years old now.

 

[Technerd108]

These days, it seems most people still stay within the Apple ecosystem because of the tight integration between their devices, but outside that factor, what other advantages are there to keep buying Apple products?

I was thinking... maybe one can be happier outside the Apple ecosystem? There are many reasons for it:

- More hardware to choose from, whether that's phones, tablets, laptops, smartwatches, etc.

More often, other brands offer way better hardware (screens, storage, ram, batteries, cameras, wired and wireless charging speeds...) for less money, and you can often find unbelievable deals on these products, like with Samsung.

I mean, less than 2 months after the Z Fold 7 release, I've seen the device 400€ cheaper (1.550€ outright). If you fandom a slim device, the S25 Edge can now be bought for 850€.

These are amazing prices for top notch hardware. Meanwhile, Apple is still selling the latest base iPhone 16 with 128GB and 60Hz screen for 800€...

Same can be said with tablets and smartwatches. The most expensive smartwatches can be found way cheaper 6 months after release.

Then, you have other Android benefits, like better AI features, Gemini, more customization, more consistent navigation throughout the OS, better multitasking, being able to download torrents, etc. Now Google and Samsung guarantee 7 years of OS updates, so not an Apple benefit anymore.

You can pair a Google or Huawei watch with a Samsung or Oppo, you can use an Ultra tablet with a Xiaomi phone, etc. Maybe the integration isn't as tight as with Apple or between same brand devices, but it's not terrible either. Now we have Android Quick Share for easy file transfers, but there's also third party options, like Blip, which works as good.

Having better hardware (Apple still doesn't have foldables, for example), more options, sometimes better software (now more obvious than ever with AI), and all that for much less money than with Apple.

So, if one doesn't need the super tight integration of Apple devices, can they be happier outside of their ecosystem?

For me, the most important factor in this debate is price. Being able to buy an S25 Ultra or Edge when there's discounts for the same price as the base iPhone 16 is just crazy.

Price is a funny thing. You are talking about discounts after release. Why do you think the Samsung Edge sells for so little while the Apple model that is similar doesn't? If you care about resale then the iPhone holds its value better over time.

Then you have the upfront price of something. You can compare specs between models and other brands. In terms of laptops Apple pretty much has the best on the market for the cheapest price. M4 MBA is $749 for the base model. I dare you to find a better laptop for less. Sometimes Apple takes a long time to replace tech. MBA still has a 60hz LCD screen. However, it is a really nice 60hz LCD screen. So there will be older components in the air line vs Pro which will have all the latest. If you price a Windows workstation against a new MBP they will be priced very similarly and with the newest air base at $749 Apple has midrange Windows laptop market as well.

Then there are the intangibles of price. Customer service. repair service. Apple ecosystem. Software.

When it comes to phones the iPhone is a central hub for Apple products. iPhones are very well built and last a long time. Just like laptops they may not always have the very latest tech inside depending on the model but the a series chips always offer solid performance for years. There are way less discounts buying iPhones than Samsung so upfront cost is always going to be higher.

Google has caught up mostly with long term software support. If you have a s24 or later you get 7 years of OS and security updates! So now you can keep your phone for 7 years if you want to and you will have a supported phone all the way through. It may get slower but now you aren't forced to ditch perfectly good hardware because of an arbitrary software support limitation but rather using the phone as long as possible before it is too slow.

Android offers tons of customization and skins. Overall Android is a better designed OS I terms of usability BUT it comes with some costs. App variety is good but quality apps are still a problem. Tablet UI is still not great. I have had way more stability issues and connection issues on Android compared to iOS.

Ecosystem. Windows has one sort of. Samsung phones are mostly supported on Windows to phone app. This will make your laptop much like a MacBook. The problem is setting up is clunky and needs several config steps. If you have something other than a Samsung phone on Android you might not get full support from the app and some features may not work. The connectivity between devices like phone tablet and PC are fairly good once set up yet the entire setup doesn't feel nearly as seamless and polished as Apple's.

The point is at the end of the day things are pretty much equal. You can use either Windows or a Mac and have an ecosystem that works equally well. Pricing for mid range and up Macs are pretty much equal to Windows laptops and can be cheaper in some cases.

Hardware specs are the one area where one could argue Apple either holds back or adding thing like more ram or storage are cost prohibitive compared to the competition. Also OEM's offer more hardware configs with things like OLED touchscreens with stylus support, etc. Overall though the total cost of ownership is generally less expensive as long as you keep your Apple gear for as long as possible.

 

[tbayrgs]

Or just any streaming device like the Fire Cube or Roku. I already have a Roku though, even though it's a few years old now.

The Google TV Streamer is the only streaming box at parity with the Apple TV. Roku and Amazon’s options are ad infested with terrible UI.

If you are just looking for wireless speakers with good audio, look at Sonos. They do play a bit better with Apple since they have native AirPlay support (no Google casting unfortunately) but they sound great.

If you want a speaker with some smarts, look at the Nest home speakers or if you can wait, the new Google Home speakers coming this upcoming Spring.

 

[MBAir2010]

YES!
leaving the  blahblah ecocrook is refreshing!

Or one can back to the future with older  products.
Since  lost their computer or individuality focus now.
my iPhone mini 12 never leaves the house since that is deemed useless.
anything  media is garbage compared to 3rd party programs that care.
iCloud email is convoluted now.
Tahoe is worse than mavericks
And liquid glass eats memory big time.

Im reverting to Mojave which does not like ism as that works better
My Sony and Klipsch products plays foobar Flac music better on Mojave than Tahoe.

So there are ways not to be a windows or linux user today.

 

[Bungaree.Chubbins]

YES!
leaving the  blahblah ecocrook is refreshing!

Or one can back to the future with older  products.
Since  lost their computer or individuality focus now.
my iPhone mini 12 never leaves the house since that is deemed useless.
anything  media is garbage compared to 3rd party programs that care.
iCloud email is convoluted now.
Tahoe is worse than mavericks
And liquid glass eats memory big time.

Im reverting to Mojave which does not like ism as that works better
My Sony and Klipsch products plays foobar Flac music better on Mojave than Tahoe.

So there are ways not to be a windows or linux user today.

My experience is essentially the opposite of yours. I love my M3 Pro, despite the bashing it took publicly. After a year and a half it’s still an amazing machine that I routinely get a full days work done on battery.

iCloud mail with a custom domain has saved our bacon after work emails started bouncing everywhere because our host didn’t support the right features without us paying a ton more money.

My music sounds amazing through my Beyerdynamic headphones. Whether it’s my own CDs I’ve ripped to ALAC, or Apple Music, it’s great.

I just wish I could afford to upgrade my iPad Air 2.

 

[sjsharksfan12]

The Google TV Streamer is the only streaming box at parity with the Apple TV. Roku and Amazon’s options are ad infested with terrible UI.

If you are just looking for wireless speakers with good audio, look at Sonos. They do play a bit better with Apple since they have native AirPlay support (no Google casting unfortunately) but they sound great.

If you want a speaker with some smarts, look at the Nest home speakers or if you can wait, the new Google Home speakers coming this upcoming Spring.

Doing more research it looks like just trading one ecosystem for the other. The Google streamer looked pretty nice and small so if I travel with it, it won't be too bad.

 

[Ctrlos]

Doing more research it looks like just trading one ecosystem for the other. The Google streamer looked pretty nice and small so if I travel with it, it won't be too bad.

The Xbox Series S is both a great media streamer and a great games console.

 

[ab2c4]

I don't need nor want to use an ecosystem from any company and prefer it that way. This way I can switch back and forth between iOS and Android with ease, and switch between Mac, Chromebook and Windows with total ease as well. I like having unlimited choices for every type of technology and not being limited to what one company has to offer.

 

[DeepSix]

I had an M1 iPad pro for two and a half years thought it was the greatest thing. Switched to Samsung Galaxy tablets and unless Apple drops their prices and their iOS evolves, I don't see myself ever going back to iPads. Samsung one UI and their hardware is more impressive

 

[BMox81]

Frowned upon by most but I still bloody love my Pixel Tablet. The dock is what should come packed in with every iPad as standard imo.

 

[yui4]

I had an M1 iPad pro for two and a half years thought it was the greatest thing. Switched to Samsung Galaxy tablets and unless Apple drops their prices and their iOS evolves, I don't see myself ever going back to iPads. Samsung one UI and their hardware is more impressive

Which tablet do you have?

 

[DeepSix]

Which tablet do you have?

S9 Ultra and S10 FE. I think S10 FE (when on sale at 1/3 off) is one of the best tech buys of 2025. Totally surprised how much I love this tablet. So much value in this model.

 

[PandaPunch]

I have an iPhone and Mac, with plans to get a new iPad and iPhone soonish.

I have gotten out of the Apple ecosystem for my smart home setup. Home Assistant is way better if you're just using it as a means to control your lights and thermostat at least then if your internet goes out you can still control stuff since it's all local networking.

On the other hand, the reason why I get most Apple stuff is the general value they offer; a few decent devices that last years (usually) and they work well enough that in most cases, I don't have to install additional software.

Outside of gaming, I'd say my "power needs" are really modest. Self-hosting with recycled computers and having gaming computers usually fills anything gaps I'd have. Maybe it's best to say for everyday computer tasks, I prefer Apple devices. Otherwise, I don't have problems with other brands or operating systems.

 

[Abazigal]

As someone who is all-in on the Apple ecosystem, I feel the best way to describe my decision is that Apple loves to offer their users one optimised way of doing things. If their interpretation of what makes for a great user experience is in line with yours (as was the case for me), then it can be full of secret magic and delight. Else, it's like jogging through quicksand. You can try to fight the system with all your might, and you will just die a slow, tired death.

For me, it starts and ends with my iPad. I have using my iPad to teach in the classroom since 2010, and it's been a great experience all around. The ability to mirror it to my projector through my apple tv, the plethora of optimised iPad apps available (some of which continue to stubbornly not be available on Android), the writing experience of the Apple Pencil, and from there, it just made sense to me to get an iPhone and a Mac (2 of them actually) to round everything out.

I find I don't really miss the ability to sideload apps or torrent files (not least because there tend to be more iOS apps available, so you can't pirate what simply doesn't exist). I don't care about customisation, I guess the ability to have your laptop read your android phone as a hard drive is convenient, but by and large, I have been living with iOS devices and their inherent limitations for so long that I have pretty much optimised my way around their shortcomings by now (eg: storing files in the cloud, having adaptors, shortcuts).

That apple products tend to have minority market share mean that there are plenty of people who opt not to purchase their products and are getting by just fine. But it doesn't mean that there is zero merit to the Apple ecosystem either (else, Apple wouldn't be as successful as they are today). Different strokes for different folks.

 

[flybub]

This has been a great thread to read through. I'm on my first iPhone (base 16) since the 4s and I can't say I'm impressed. The restrictions of the software and the bugs on iOS 26 have given me buyers remorse. I have a Macbook from 2014 that still runs like a champ and when it dies I'll buy another, but this will be my last iphone for another decade. I feel the phone is the weakest link in the entire ecosystem, but I love the Macbook and watch.

 

[The_Interloper]

This has been a great thread to read through. I'm on my first iPhone (base 16) since the 4s and I can't say I'm impressed. The restrictions of the software and the bugs on iOS 26 have given me buyers remorse. I have a Macbook from 2014 that still runs like a champ and when it dies I'll buy another, but this will be my last iphone for another decade. I feel the phone is the weakest link in the entire ecosystem, but I love the Macbook and watch.

But therein lies the problem - if you love the Watch, you have to have the iPhone. Should your choice of watch dictate your choice of phone? Probably not, but it's these micro-dependencies that cause issues. That's how Apple gets you all-in, even if you'd rather not be.

As someone who is all-in on the Apple ecosystem, I feel the best way to describe my decision is that Apple loves to offer their users one optimised way of doing things. If their interpretation of what makes for a great user experience is in line with yours (as was the case for me), then it can be full of secret magic and delight. Else, it's like jogging through quicksand. You can try to fight the system with all your might, and you will just die a slow, tired death.

I think the best way to look at is instead of always thinking of an "ecosystem", reframe it as "Apple is the OS". There are inherent limitations, but also obvious advantages, right down to the unified interface across devices. For years people claimed macOS was starting to look like iOS, but that's by design - it reduces visual and cognitive friction.

 

[HouseLannister]

But therein lies the problem - if you love the Watch, you have to have the iPhone.

OnePlus’ new OxygenOS 16 works with the Apple Watch – but there’s a catch

Set to make its debut on the OnePlus 15, OxygenOS 16 includes support for Apple Watch, boosted AI features and much more.

www.trustedreviews.com

It's getting there. You still need to use an iPhone for setup, unfortunately.

 

[tbayrgs]

But therein lies the problem - if you love the Watch, you have to have the iPhone. Should your choice of watch dictate your choice of phone? Probably not, but it's these micro-dependencies that cause issues. That's how Apple gets you all-in, even if you'd rather not be.

The watch probably doesn't matter that much to many people but for some like me, it's a big issue. I moved to a Pixel 10 Pro Fold/Pixel Watch 4 as my primary combo a couple of months ago. I've used Android for the better part of 12 years and have tried Android smart watches going all the way back to the Moto 360 (used an LG, a Huawei, some model from Fossil, and most recently the Galaxy Watch Ultra). And while there are many aspects of Android that I find don't work as best for my preferred work flow, I could always get by with an Android smartphone, if push came to shove.

The smartwatch though has been an entirely different story. The Pixel Watch 4 is easily the best Wear OS/Android Wear smart watch I've ever used and I like a lot about it. But what I've discovered is that it still falls far short of the Apple Watch--in OS/UI, performance and app ecosystem. It's gotten to the point where even though I'm still using the Pixel 10 Pro Fold as my primary device (I also have an iPhone 17 for my second line), I'm now having to resort to wearing dual smartwatches (yup, I'm that crazy person walking around with a Pixel Watch 4, Apple Watch Ultra 2 AND an Oura ring 😂) because the shortfalls of Wear OS are just driving me a bit nuts. I really love so much about my Pixel 10 Pro Fold but not gonna lie, the smart watch situation is really testing my ability to hold firm and not switch back to iOS as my primary...a smart watch.

And you're right, that where Apple digs their hooks in. They make some pretty remarkable devices that can stand on their own but also play really well with each other. And because of that, it's often pretty hard to switch away.

 

[Vegastouch]

I can only speak for me, responding to the OP here, but i havent had a iPhone for over 12 to years and i dont miss it but ive also never had everything electronic Apple. My PC is Microsoft, never had a Apple computer, tablet is Samsung, phone is Google. I just use what i like and never buy the same brands of anything. I have Samsung and TCL TVs.

Like i dont have Samsung earbuds when i had a SS phone, or Google Buds with my Pixels. I have several other brands and they all work well with the Pixel and Tablet.....while everyone seems to think they need to buy Apples earbuds. My newest buds for example are Soundcore that were on sale for $30 and they sound great, very responsive to the touch controls and connect right away. Some others are JBL and another brand i forget. JBLs do not connect right away these but they are at least 5 years old.The other brand i forget do also connect right away everytime.

I just never wanted to be locked down with Apple plus they are just too high in price and its worked out good for me.

My Wife has a iPad and a Pixel and she isnt close to a techy and gets on with both well. I though do not like using her iPad. Neither of us have a smartwatch. Watches i just dont like wearing and i dont feel i need to have one.

 

[Ludatyk]

I'm now having to resort to wearing dual smartwatches (yup, I'm that crazy person walking around with a Pixel Watch 4, Apple Watch Ultra 2 AND an Oura ring 😂) because the shortfalls of Wear OS are just driving me a bit nuts. I really love so much about my Pixel 10 Pro Fold but not gonna lie, the smart watch situation is really testing my ability to hold firm and not switch back to iOS as my primary...a smart watch.

And you're right, that where Apple digs their hooks in. They make some pretty remarkable devices that can stand on their own but also play really well with each other. And because of that, it's often pretty hard to switch away.

If you have to resort to wearing two watches… you mind as well switch to the iPhone lol. But nevertheless… How do you go about carrying both phones AND both watches? What purposes do they all share?

And I agree with you that the Apple Watch is the best smartwatch on the market… went to the effort of trying to use the Apple Watch Ultra as a standalone device under the Family Plan feature. But unfortunately… most apps require the use of the iPhone, so that plan was a no go. But now that I have this Pixel Watch… runs smoothly, enjoy the heck out of the hardware.

 

[tbayrgs]

If you have to resort to wearing two watches… you mind as well switch to the iPhone lol. But nevertheless… How do you go about carrying both phones AND both watches? What purposes do they all share?

And I agree with you that the Apple Watch is the best smartwatch on the market… went to the effort of trying to use the Apple Watch Ultra as a standalone device under the Family Plan feature. But unfortunately… most apps require the use of the iPhone, so that plan was a no go. But now that I have this Pixel Watch… runs smoothly, enjoy the heck out of the hardware.

It's a bit convoluted, complicated and admittedly overkill. I'll try to explain somewhat succinctly...

My primary phone number, the one just about everybody uses to reach me, is now in my Pixel 10 Pro Fold. Ideally, I'm planning on keeping it in that phone until at least the iPhone Fold comes out or possibly longer if I'm not impressed by Apple's offering. Subsequently, using the Pixel Watch 4 makes clearly the most sense. It's an LTE model and I'm using the free 2 years of data that came with the purchase from Google.

My second line is in an iPhone 17 (bought to use until next year when it'll be handed down to my college age daughter. My family and friends all use iPhones and other Apple devices. I also use mostly Apple gear for my other devices (iPad Pro 13 M4, MBP and Mac mini, Apple Watch Ultra). Not using an iPhone/Apple Watch combo, while not required, isn't ideal for my employer (if you get my drift ). The iPhone 17 is usually tucked into my backpack when I leave the house and in my pocket at work. Having both smartwatches on is easier to explain than just the Pixel Watch but as I mentioned, gaps in functionality on the PW4 has caused me to just keep the AWU on too (I can go into greater detail about where the PW4 is falling down for me if anyone's interested). It's also been interesting to see how they compare in all aspects, hardware and software in real time (notifications, haptics, health data, etc). It's really done a lot to showcase how much they differ.

I really want to stick it out with the P10PF. As I mentioned, it's the most I've enjoyed using an Android device, ever, and I want to explore everything it can do and really dive into its integration with Gemini. It easier for me to overcome its differences vs. an iPhone than the smart watch shortcomings so for the time being, I'll stick with being the weird two smart watch guy. Because if I ultimately have to choose to use just one smart watch, it'll sadly mean switching back to the iPhone/Apple Watch combo as my primary.

 

[Technerd108]

How connected do we need to be?

I had two nice smartwatches and while there are some useful features mostly for health or exercise. The problem I had is notifications. I would get a ding on my wrist every few seconds and after a while I started to get more anxiety. I took the watch off and I felt phantom notifications for about a week afterwards.

I noticed a similar situation when I had an iPhone and Mac but to a much lesser extent than the watch but overall the phone notifications across platforms created more anxiety with little to no benefit. Most of the notifications are useless. I could have adjusted the notifications but then I am not getting notifications which is the point of being always connected.

In the end I gave away one of my smartwatch and will sell the other. I am not a CEO and don't need to be on call 24/7. Obviously there are certain responsibilities that require me to monitor notifications at a bare minimum but having every device synced to my phone just created anxiety where it didn't exist before. The odd thing is that despite the negative impact of the multiple devices being always connected is that the notifications caused anxiety but I also started to expect them and got sort of addicted to checking all the time.

I am actually happy at this point I have an Android phone and MacBook.

 

[Abazigal]

How connected do we need to be?

I had two nice smartwatches and while there are some useful features mostly for health or exercise. The problem I had is notifications. I would get a ding on my wrist every few seconds and after a while I started to get more anxiety. I took the watch off and I felt phantom notifications for about a week afterwards.

I totally feel you regarding the phantom notifications. I see I am not alone in that regard.

What I ended up doing on my iPhone was turn off notifications on all "non-essential" apps, especially shopping apps. This significantly cut down on the number of "dings" I was getting, and also ensured that whenever I was notified, it's usually because of something important (like an incoming message).

 

[tbayrgs]

How connected do we need to be?

I had two nice smartwatches and while there are some useful features mostly for health or exercise. The problem I had is notifications. I would get a ding on my wrist every few seconds and after a while I started to get more anxiety. I took the watch off and I felt phantom notifications for about a week afterwards.

I noticed a similar situation when I had an iPhone and Mac but to a much lesser extent than the watch but overall the phone notifications across platforms created more anxiety with little to no benefit. Most of the notifications are useless. I could have adjusted the notifications but then I am not getting notifications which is the point of being always connected.

In the end I gave away one of my smartwatch and will sell the other. I am not a CEO and don't need to be on call 24/7. Obviously there are certain responsibilities that require me to monitor notifications at a bare minimum but having every device synced to my phone just created anxiety where it didn't exist before. The odd thing is that despite the negative impact of the multiple devices being always connected is that the notifications caused anxiety but I also started to expect them and got sort of addicted to checking all the time.

I am actually happy at this point I have an Android phone and MacBook.

Well you said it yourself. You can control the level of notifications you get on every device. If that many notifications are causing anxiety it's not the devices per se but rather how you have them set up.

I use my smartwatch to solve the exact problem you're talking about. I don't need to get all of my notifications on all of my devices. I set up my smart watches so that I only get the essential notifications there because that's the device on my body. I can get the rest later on my phone. The smart watch ideally is limiting my wasted time using my phone because I'm screening the important notification. Can't doom scroll on my watch. I have very few to no notifications on my iPad or Mac.

 

[lostPod]

Of course! It will just depend on what you value. If you value that integration between devices, which, let's be real, is not what it used to be, then you will probably want to stick with Apple. You can move over to a Google ecosystem of course. However, if you, like me, don't trust Google that isn't a solution. Android at least gives you more flexibility in general so that you can make and use your own ecosystem. You can do this on iOS as well but Android has a more feature-rich version of something like KDE Connect.

You could have your cloud storage and office suite with Nextcloud, Immich for cloud photos, file synchronization with Syncthing, audiobooks & podcasts with audiobookshelf, password management with a self-hosted instance of Bitwarden or KeePassXC. You can use KDE Connect for media controls, sending text messages from your computer, sending files back and forth, battery monitoring, and some more stuff on top of all that.

Have you used nextcloud? Is it any good?