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Is It Possible?
- Thread starter tyusrex
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Why take a step backwards? USB A port is wasted space because it can only be used as USB A. TB3 can turn into any legacy port and also support upcoming/newer standards which haven't been invented yet.
Yes, there are computers out there now that have all the ports and more in a slim form factor. Apple's removal of the ports wasn't for technical reasons, but strategically they chose to fully embrace USB-C, pure and simple. If you need the other ports, then the choice in front of you is obvious, buy a hub, or buy a windows machine that has the ports you require.
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Its really not wasted space, USB-C/TB3 has not taken off, it can make a lot of sense to keep one or two of those ports around. Its been two years and we've not seen much in USB-C peripherals. I know adoption can be slow, and that's precisely why having at least one port is very consumer friendly. I mean if apple included a USB-C to USB dongle, that would be one thing but charging 20 dollars for the dongle. Apple has gotten very petty these past few years, and its surprising given their desire to have the best customer support
It is wasted space though. USB-A can only be USB-A and nothing else. If you make decisions for the consumer on what ports are necessary, there will always be ports that are not used by the user and other ports that weren't put in which people want.
Yeah Apple charge 20 dollary-doos for the dongle but it's slightly disingenuous to imply you can only buy them from Apple. You can easily pick up a third-party USB-C to USB-A for five bucks. It's a non-issue IMO.
Its not wasted if you need it, and that's my point. We really don't see any USB-C devices, other then storage, so we're still buying new products that is USB A and that doesn't even include products that the person currently has.
We're not talking about HDMI, or MicroSD, or SD ports which has limited appeal, we're talking about the universal standard that all products were and are being produced on.
And then people come here and complain why their 5 dollar cable isn't working, and need help, the advice is to buy actual apple branded cables. Its not an non-issue because ire requires the consumer to buy something extra when other makers have the ports.
I had to buy a 100 dollar dock, so I could get the ports I needed, that's a far cry from 5 dollars so, yeah apples decision for its removal is an issue imo
In 2016, reviewers were calling usb-c the standard for the future.
In 2018, reviewers are calling usb-c the standard for the future.
In 2020, when the next major revision of the MacBook Pro is due, I wouldn't be surprised if apple dropped support for usb-c and had moved on to some other connectivity option, labeling IT "the new standard for the future."
It seems like this hypothetical 'future' (with usb-c as a universal or near universal standard) may actually never materialize as envisioned.
Meanwhile, I wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of all computer users were still using usb-a peripherals and drives in 2020 as well. Most people in the world after all, are still windows users and most every windows computer still supports usb-a.
Forced obsolescence is just a bad idea for all involved. If usb-a was compatible with the lower case dimensions of laptop as thin as the 2016-18 mbp, then dropping usb-a was a miscalculation. A very inconvenient one at that for the vast majority of users.
Not to mention, the additional weight of dongles closes the gap in weight between the 15 mbp and later versions, as well as the fact that the prospect of losing, misplacing or forgetting dongles could pose another inconvenience as well.
It seems like an OCD driven design decision ("we must have every port look exactly the same!"), rather than one driven by practicality.
In 2018, reviewers are calling usb-c the standard for the future.
In 2020, when the next major revision of the MacBook Pro is due, I wouldn't be surprised if apple dropped support for usb-c and had moved on to some other connectivity option, labeling IT "the new standard for the future."
It seems like this hypothetical 'future' (with usb-c as a universal or near universal standard) may actually never materialize as envisioned.
Meanwhile, I wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of all computer users were still using usb-a peripherals and drives in 2020 as well. Most people in the world after all, are still windows users and most every windows computer still supports usb-a.
Forced obsolescence is just a bad idea for all involved. If usb-a was compatible with the lower case dimensions of laptop as thin as the 2016-18 mbp, then dropping usb-a was a miscalculation. A very inconvenient one at that for the vast majority of users.
Not to mention, the additional weight of dongles closes the gap in weight between the 15 mbp and later versions, as well as the fact that the prospect of losing, misplacing or forgetting dongles could pose another inconvenience as well.
It seems like an OCD driven design decision ("we must have every port look exactly the same!"), rather than one driven by practicality.
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It’s a Pro machine. Given the trade off between a port with 40Gb/s throughput, can charge the machine, support audio/video, be daisy chained, and convert to any legacy port you want —
Or USB-A which can support USB-A devices —
I just can’t understand it. And if they kept USB-A for legacy purposes then it’s not gonna move anything forward.
I doubt it. A USB-A connector is same thickness as the 2018 MBP
Laptops that maflynn talks about are thicker.I doubt it. A USB-A connector is same thickness as the 2018 MBP
But thinness compromises battery life. Which increases the likelihood that you will need to carry a charger. Which negates any weight savings.
The 16-18 mbp's offer several fewer hours of battery life per charge, and require dongle/s meaning that practically speaking, the '15 mbp is actually lighter to use and carry as a portable.
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Would it be possible to incorporate both usb-a and c ports?
Also, why retain the headphone jack? The iPhones no longer have them, and iPhone users are more likely to be using headphones than laptop users?
These design decisions seem completely arbitrary, again, based more on esthetics than the needs of users. JI's design criteria seems to be: 'let's make a laptop as light and thin and as symmetrical as possible.' But as a result, it forces users to carry around dongles and chargers which negate any weight savings gained with the redesign of the computer itself.
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Can you name one device that uses USB-A? All my units are mini-/micro-USB, USB-C or Lightning. If you are converting from one form factor to another anyway, why not convert from a better form factor?
Its a machine that consumers buy that apple called a pro to differentiate between their old white macbooks. Its a marketing term pure and simple. Besides, we've heard for two years at how the MBP is not a Pro machine by professionals and that's with USB-C.
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Keyboards, mice, printers, scanners, thumb drives, camera integration, i.e., usb cables to connect a camera to a computer, to name a few
The only problem i see there are keyboards and mice as they sometimes have a soldered cable, the rest seems to be a case of using a different cable. Theres no difference in using a USB-C to micro USB compared to USB-A to micro USB.
Is this an actual question? The overwhelming majority of computer users are using multiple usb-a devices. This is not an actual question. Maybe ask again in 2030.
No, they aren't using USB-A, the cables might have one end that is USB-A but that doesn't matter, you are free to use whatever cable you want as long as it is not soldered. I haven't seen many soldered USB cables in the past 5 years tbh.
There is nothing arbitrary bout port selections. FWIW, The Thinkpad X1 has a full complement of ports and after using one for several months I am going back tom the MBP.
To say that there are no USB-C peripherals other than storage is ludicrous. It is very clearly the future of interfaces just as USB-A was a decade or so ago. You don't need new peripherals, you just need new cables. How many devices do you plug directly into the port. Flash drives? I use lots of small dongle devices for things and nearly every manufacturer recommends using a short extension cable to connect to the port as it is too easy to lose connection and interrupt the data if the devices is bumped, as USB-A is not really a great physical connector.
I don't think a lot of people understand (or want to understand) that the C port is completely campatible with A. You don't need any translation, you just need the right cable.
Hell, even MS has added a USB-C port on the latest SB2. Thought they didn't include TB3 functionality which completely is a dealbreaker to me for a professional machine.
All the bitching online saying that a machine can't be considered a professional tool because it does not include a bunch of legacy technologies is silly to me. I want a professional machine to be as forward thinking as is practical.
To say that there are no USB-C peripherals other than storage is ludicrous. It is very clearly the future of interfaces just as USB-A was a decade or so ago. You don't need new peripherals, you just need new cables. How many devices do you plug directly into the port. Flash drives? I use lots of small dongle devices for things and nearly every manufacturer recommends using a short extension cable to connect to the port as it is too easy to lose connection and interrupt the data if the devices is bumped, as USB-A is not really a great physical connector.
I don't think a lot of people understand (or want to understand) that the C port is completely campatible with A. You don't need any translation, you just need the right cable.
Hell, even MS has added a USB-C port on the latest SB2. Thought they didn't include TB3 functionality which completely is a dealbreaker to me for a professional machine.
All the bitching online saying that a machine can't be considered a professional tool because it does not include a bunch of legacy technologies is silly to me. I want a professional machine to be as forward thinking as is practical.
Where did you get that from? My 2016 15" has better battery life then any MBP before it. This is also confirmed by every single third-party test I am aware of. And the 2018 model even has a larger battery. Sure, they had to decrease the battery size in order to get a thinner machine, but they also decreased power consumption of components such as display.
As to dongles — with my old Macs, I had to bring two video adapters with me when traveling. Now I only need one which has all the ports I might need. So its a win
My external mouse, USB thumb rivers and hard drivers connect directly to usb-c.Besides, it seems to me that all you want to do is provoke unnecessary bickering. You yourself asked about computer just as thin. Now you are arguing agains thin laptops. In your words, your posts are "useless".
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No one in this thread said this.
Apple and their paid reviewers made this claim 2 years ago. Apple and their paid/affiliated reviewers are still saying the same thing two years later.
I use a USB port and can't remember the last time the port's cable or any of the usb cables connected to it were pulled loose. As a matter of fact, I don't think this has ever happened. Not to me anyway.
Again, please don't put words into people's mouths. No one in this thread claimed any such thing. You've tried pulling this lame stunt twice now in a single post. It just makes you look desperate. Not to mention dishonest.
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They could certainly put in an SD card slot which is just as narrow as a USB C port, and which USB C doesn’t replace the functionality of. It boggles the mind that connecting the most universal camera standard to a computer that is at least partially targeted to photographers is not a native option but functionality that requires a separate purchase.
Where did you get that from? My 2016 15" has better battery life then any MBP before it. This is also confirmed by every single third-party test I am aware of. And the 2018 model even has a larger battery. Sure, they had to decrease the battery size in order to get a thinner machine, but they also decreased power consumption of components such as display.
As to dongles — with my old Macs, I had to bring two video adapters with me when traveling. Now I only need one which has all the ports I might need. So its a win
Besides, it seems to me that all you want to do is provoke unnecessary bickering. You yourself asked about computer just as thin. Now you are arguing agains thin laptops. In your words, your ports are "useless".
The 2016 clearly had inferior battery life compared to the 2015. It is a smaller, lighter battery after all.
The 2018 has a larger battery than the 16/17, but the computers also have more RAM which negates the extra capacity.
Smaller, lighter, lower capacity batteries don't last as long. This is reality.
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But then the computer has asymmetrical port options on the left and right side. As I said before, design is driven by OCD, not by how users actually use their computers.
Then you have to add dongles which negates the weight savings, and makes the computer less convenient to use since the dongles can be lost, broken, or forgotten.
USB-c is also less safe to use than MagSafe no pun intended for powering the computer.
The 16-18 models take two steps forward, then four steps back.
[doublepost=1531828321][/doublepost]Apple users have complained relentlessly about the dearth of connectivity options. Apple doesn't care. It's just that simple.
You got some very weird logic right there my friend. Battery runtime depends not just on the battery size, but also on the power consumptions. Laptops 10 years ago had same size batteries but only haft of battery runtime.
Some facts (from notebookcheck): the 2015 model with 99Wh battery lasted 432 minutes in their wifi browsing test and 413 minutes in the video playback test. The 2016 model lasted 602 and 516 minutes, respectively. The 2015 model uses 13Watt of power in idle on average, the 2016 model uses around 10 Watt or less.
The only point where you notice the effects of the smaller battery is under heavy load, where the power draw by CPU/GPU is very high. Then again, whether your laptop lasts one hour or forty minutes under load has no practical impact — you'd need to use both of the computers plugged in.
It's disingenuous to insinuate that Apple is paying people to say that, and to further extend that by saying only the people that Apple supposedly "paid off" believe in that.
I firmly hope that USB-C will replace USB-A sooner rather than later, as it is so much easier to deal with and operate than USB-A. I do agree with maflynn that it would've been better if Apple included a dongle to make the transition slightly easier (similar to how they include a Lightning to 3.5mm adapter for iPhone 7/8/X), but I do also think there are far too many people out there who are making this issue into a mountain out of a molehill.
Show your sources. Laptopmag's testing shows that the 2015 achieves TWELVE AND A HALF HOURS vs just 7.5 for the 2017.
https://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/macbook-pro-13-inch-with-touch-bar
https://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/apple-macbook-pro-13-inch-retina-2015
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It doesn't matter what you hope for. What matters are the actual habits of users. Most computer users have usb-a devices and want to use them.
There's nothing disingenuous about what I wrote. Apple buys advertising from apple publications. Apple specific publications rely on affiliate marketing with sites like amazon which sell apple products. Therefore, it is in their best interest to support the ad copy of the company itself which they rely on financially, either directly or indirectly.
That's why I cited a publication like laptopmag. They test both PC's and Apple computers so they are not financially dependent upon any one brand. Use some common sense here and you will see that I am right.
2016 and later have smaller battery compared to 2015. A backward step in my view, which is result of obsession with being thin.
I use usb-a all the time. If you work in a group like I do in a uni, you need to be able to transfer stuff to other people.
HDMI is used all the time since I have to make presentations. So many times you end up forgetting/losing dongles that being able to know that you can make a presentation without worrying about dongles is such a relief.
usb-c offers no justification for removing sd-card slot from the high end pro models.
Most people who are defending apple here on these issues are ordinary users who dont need the high end models but are just buying for the sake of prestige. They should just stick to macbook and stop telling us pro users what we need or dont need.
I use usb-a all the time. If you work in a group like I do in a uni, you need to be able to transfer stuff to other people.
HDMI is used all the time since I have to make presentations. So many times you end up forgetting/losing dongles that being able to know that you can make a presentation without worrying about dongles is such a relief.
usb-c offers no justification for removing sd-card slot from the high end pro models.
Most people who are defending apple here on these issues are ordinary users who dont need the high end models but are just buying for the sake of prestige. They should just stick to macbook and stop telling us pro users what we need or dont need.
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