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Show your sources. Laptopmag's testing shows that the 2015 achieves TWELVE AND A HALF HOURS vs just 7.5 for the 2017.

https://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/macbook-pro-13-inch-with-touch-bar
https://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/apple-macbook-pro-13-inch-retina-2015

Your link is about the 2018 model btw. The 2016 13" battery runtime is 8:46 according to laptopmagn tests (https://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/apple-macbook-pro-13-inch-with-touch-bar-2016-version), which makes me rather surprised — the 2018 has 10Wh larger battery, so it should perform way better. Maybe there is a bug or an issue with the test?

I was talking about the 15" model. Sources:

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-MacBook-Pro-Retina-15-Mid-2015-Review.144402.0.html
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple...016-2-6-GHz-450-Notebook-Review.185254.0.html
 
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I rather have the connectivity of USB-C then a plethora of old ports, it offers so much more.
I have used firewire, display port, HDMI and USB-A, having it all within one port makes more sense, especially if the port support more then one input type which TB3/USB-C does. Wishing for USB-A in a computer today is like wishing for floppy disk 10 years ago, it is a dying tech, get over it.
I do however agree that we need to see manufactures pick up the pace, but it should be easy as it can be done modular, just replace a build in cord with a USB-C interface and provide USB-C to A and C to C and we will get over it, this way additional features can also be implemented for users of C-C for example by extending ports to keyboard external screen and so on. Routers could implement USB-C to for easy connection to a eHHD as TB3 and USB-C can provide a decent enough speed to function wifi drive for most common households, could also be a way to connect printers and other units.
 
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Most people who are defending apple here on these issues are ordinary users who dont need the high end models but are just buying for the sake of prestige. They should just stick to macbook and stop telling us pro users what we need or dont need.

Finish the university first, then we can talk about who is being a "pro user" :rolleyes: There is no way in hell I am sharing a USB stick with one of my students.
 
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Finish the university first, then we can talk about who is being a "pro user" :rolleyes: There is no way in hell I am sharing a USB stick with one of my students.

Thanks for your concern. I am a professor doing scientific computing and HPC. All my students use Linux.
 
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Your link is about the 2018 model btw. The 2016 13" battery runtime is 8:46 according to laptopmagn tests (https://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/apple-macbook-pro-13-inch-with-touch-bar-2016-version), which makes me rather surprised — the 2018 has 10Wh larger battery, so it should perform way better. Maybe there is a bug or an issue with the test?

I was talking about the 15" model. Sources:

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-MacBook-Pro-Retina-15-Mid-2015-Review.144402.0.html
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple...016-2-6-GHz-450-Notebook-Review.185254.0.html


But since a user will use the 15" with programs which place a heavier load on the processors, wifi use is a poor gauge for how the batteries will be used. Best to use photoshop or final cut pro instead. There, I would not be surprised if the '15 models fare far better.

The 2018 has a faster processor and maybe more RAM.
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Finally some common sense here.

And yet, there is plenty of space to include both usb-a and usb-c. It's not either/or.

2015 models include: magsafe, 2 thunderbolt ports AND usb-a. 2016- models only include 2 usb-a ports MAX and only one if you want to charge your computer.

You're right common sense tells us fewer ports are less useful.
[doublepost=1531830727][/doublepost]Even if there is no space for usb-a, there was no need for apple to eliminate MagSafe.

Even if you eliminate MagSafe, there is no need to limit the total number of usb-c ports to just 2 or 4.

These design decisions did not take into account the needs of actual apple computer users.
 
Thanks for your concern. I am a professor doing scientific computing and HPC. All my students use Linux.

Ah, then my apologies, esteemed colleague ;) I thought you were a student since your comments about all us USB-C supporters being "ordinary users" struck me as somehow immature and lacking respect. Yes, transitions are difficult. Still, adapting to them is not that difficult and they promise a better future to us all. I'd rather live in a world with one universal connector then continue the mess we had before.
[doublepost=1531831047][/doublepost]
But since a user will use the 15" with programs which place a heavier load on the processors, wifi use is a poor gauge for how the batteries will be used. Best to use photoshop or final cut pro instead. There, I would not be surpris

Any modern laptop will fare like crap if pushed. BTW, I did an extrapolation some time ago, comparing measured idle and load power consumption of these laptops agains their battery capacity and found out that the expected battery life curves partially overlap (sorry, can't find it anymore, its somewhere here on the forums). It can't be a coincidence — its very carefully measured by Apple to get to the advertised idle 10 hours battery life. The only time where the smaller battery is noticeable is again, if you push the computer really hard, but then even largest battery will give you barely one hour of usable life.
 
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Ah, then my apologies, esteemed colleague ;) I thought you were a student since your comments about all us USB-C supporters being "ordinary users" struck me as somehow immature and lacking respect. Yes, transitions are difficult. Still, adapting to them is not that difficult and they promise a better future to us all. I'd rather live in a world with one universal connector then continue the mess we had before.

This "promise" is unfulfilled. It's not even a promise, it's just wishful thinking. Or even more honestly speaking, delusion. The same "promise" is being made in 2018 as in 2016 and we are no closer to reaching that "promise."

There is no such thing as a "universal connector." Everyone still uses hdmi, sd, microsd, usb-a, etc. Forced adoption of usb-c simply forces everyone to use one or several dongles in addition to the myriad connections we already use and own in the first place.

You are prematurely celebrating and touting the supposed benefits of a hypothetical what if scenario which most certainly does not exist and probably never will, at least not for the foreseeable future.

Mark my words, apple will DROP usb-c because no one wants to use it. Then they will adopt some other form of connectivity, force adoption and create even more problems than they solved to begin with. One step "forward" two steps back.
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Ah, then my apologies, esteemed colleague ;) I thought you were a student since your comments about all us USB-C supporters being "ordinary users" struck me as somehow immature and lacking respect. Yes, transitions are difficult. Still, adapting to them is not that difficult and they promise a better future to us all. I'd rather live in a world with one universal connector then continue the mess we had before.
[doublepost=1531831047][/doublepost]

Any modern laptop will fare like crap if pushed. BTW, I did an extrapolation some time ago, comparing measured idle and load power consumption of these laptops agains their battery capacity and found out that the expected battery life curves partially overlap (sorry, can't find it anymore, its somewhere here on the forums). It can't be a coincidence — its very carefully measured by Apple to get to the advertised idle 10 hours battery life. The only time where the smaller battery is noticeable is again, if you push the computer really hard, but then even largest battery will give you barely one hour of usable life.

Yeah, I deal with actual measurements, not "extrapolations." Especially if said poster conveniently lost said "extrapolation" and therefore can't cite much less prove his or her point.

Also, you neglect to mention that if all laptops fare like crap, then the 2016- models fare even crappier than the 2015's. A craptacular failure in both battery life and in the mixing of metaphors.
 
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I can live with usb-c but losing hdmi is a big problem.

Whether usb-c lives up to its expectations remains to be seen. In the 2013-2015 models, apple put two thunderbolt 2 ports, and I bought many dongles for that, but these ports have now disappeared. Will usb-c have a better fate ?

Many people have complained about usb-c connector becoming lose in the middle of their work, since the tip is so much smaller.

And there was no reason to remove magsafe. There is plenty of space to put it.

The touchbar, without an option to not have it, is inexcusable on a pro machine.
 
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This "promise" is unfulfilled. It's not even a promise, it's just wishful thinking. Or even more honestly speaking, delusion. The same "promise" is being made in 2018 as in 2016 and we are no closer to reaching that "promise."

I don't know, it works quite well for me. I have a USB-C monitor that charges my laptop, a USB-C thumb drive (that also has a USB-A port) and I have upgraded cables on my peripherals.

Mark my words, apple will DROP usb-c because no one wants to use it.

This will be very sad indeed. USB-C is the single most important innovation in computer connectivity we had since, well, USB (I remember, back then Apple was also first to adopt it and a lot of people were furious).

I think you are being overly pessimistic here though. Most of newly released laptops have at least one USB-C port, virtually all modern phones are USB-C. The online shop of my choice now lists over 50 different displays with USB-C input and over 40 external hard drives. I also did a search for laptops that have at least one USB-C port: there are over 250 various models being sold online in that shop only. And the numbers are steadily increasing.
[doublepost=1531833054][/doublepost]
Yeah, I deal with actual measurements, not "extrapolations." Especially if said poster conveniently lost said "extrapolation" and therefore can't cite much less prove his or her point.

Well, you can't reasonably expect me to keep track of all my tousands of posts here. At any rate, its not difficult to verify. Idle and Load power consumption of these laptops have been measured, one just has to plug them into a simple interpolating function. Say, take 13Watt idle/82Watt load for 2015 15", 10Watt idle/65Watt load for 2016 15" (from notebookcheck links above). In a 100% idle operation, 99Wh (2015 battery capacity) /13*10 ~ 76Wh. Assuming 50% idle 50% load operation: 99Wh/(13+82)*(10+65) ~ 78Wh. You'd find the same result if you change the interpolation parameter. Incidentally, the battery capacity of the 2016 15" MBP is 76Wh. Doesn't take a genius to see that it was specifically designed to get the same battery life.

Also, you neglect to mention that if all laptops fare like crap, then the 2016- models fare even crappier than the 2015's. A craptacular failure in both battery life and in the mixing of metaphors.

Now you are just being silly. Tell me, would it totally ruin your day if your laptop could only run 40 minutes on battery instead of 1 hour? To me, it somehow makes no difference. No laptop is suitable for heavy-duty operation on battery. Battery is there for light to light-mixed usage. If you want to do rendering or encoding or simulate a nuclear reactor, you have to use the power cord anyway.
 
It won't happen. Because USB-C TB3 port is superior to any other port, any other port inclusion will mean an exclusion of such port.

So say they wanted to go 50:50 and made their laptops 2 USB-C TB3 and 2 USB-A - as far as Apple are concerned, they have downgraded the laptop by missing out on 2 USB-C TB3 ports. What about add a USB-A in addition to the 4 USB-C? Well they see it as, why not add another USB-C instead.

Apple are happy to go through some periods of inconvenience for what they see as better technology or alternatives. They removed the CD-Rom drive, they removed the headphone socket on an iPhone, they even removed the button from the iPhone and added a notch :). I don't see USB-A returning, nor see them discarding USB-C unless their is a proven alternative that is better.

Now, if only they got rid of the darn lightning port and put USB-C on all their product line..
 
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I don't have an iPhone X, but I need to get one for development work. I just bought a new 15" Macbook Pro (2018). Does the iPhone X come with a USB-C to Lightning cable? Or is it USB-A to Lightning?
 
I don't have an iPhone X, but I need to get one for development work. I just bought a new 15" Macbook Pro (2018). Does the iPhone X come with a USB-C to Lightning cable? Or is it USB-A to Lightning?

USB-A to lightning. If you want to connect it to your MacBook (other than via Wifi/Bluetooth), you need to get a new wire :(.
 
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No one in this thread said this.

Apple and their paid reviewers made this claim 2 years ago. Apple and their paid/affiliated reviewers are still saying the same thing two years later.

Funny that USB-C and/or TB3 has been added to every flagship laptop in every lineup. The Surface Pro 2, The Dell XPS, nearly all the Thinkpads, The ZenBooks, HP Spectre's, Lenovo Yoga's, etc all have had the port for a couple years now. The vast majority of new android phones use USB-C for charging and connecting.

I use a USB port and can't remember the last time the port's cable or any of the usb cables connected to it were pulled loose. As a matter of fact, I don't think this has ever happened. Not to me anyway.

I'm doubting you are plugging in things like interfaces for things like Flash and EEProm programmers or other devices that a single glitch in the connection will brick the device on the other end. Lot of us that work in the field do this frequently. I guess you've also never had a port damaged by someone bumping a device sticking out the side.


Again, please don't put words into people's mouths. No one in this thread claimed any such thing. You've tried pulling this lame stunt twice now in a single post. It just makes you look desperate. Not to mention dishonest.

So there's not a ton of bitching online about Apple's deletion of the legacy ports? I did not say that it was necessarily in this thread, I can pull any number of posts on this board in the last few days much less the last two years since the release of the latest generation.

The fact is that Apple did not invent the USB-C port, nor were they the first to implement it. It is far from "Planned Obsolescence" as it is completely backwards compatible with every old USB standard. It also allows connection of a myriad of legacy technologies via a single connector.

I guess you don't remember the last time Apple did this in a big way. It was Apple that adopted USB-A in 1998 when the rest of the world was using serial and parallel ports. Apple has always been on the forefront with I/O.

You sir are the one purveying FUD as illustrated in the following post:

In 2016, reviewers were calling usb-c the standard for the future.

In 2018, reviewers are calling usb-c the standard for the future.

In 2020, when the next major revision of the MacBook Pro is due, I wouldn't be surprised if apple dropped support for usb-c and had moved on to some other connectivity option, labeling IT "the new standard for the future."

It seems like this hypothetical 'future' (with usb-c as a universal or near universal standard) may actually never materialize as envisioned.

Meanwhile, I wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of all computer users were still using usb-a peripherals and drives in 2020 as well. Most people in the world after all, are still windows users and most every windows computer still supports usb-a.

Forced obsolescence is just a bad idea for all involved. If usb-a was compatible with the lower case dimensions of laptop as thin as the 2016-18
mbp, then dropping usb-a was a miscalculation. A very inconvenient one at that for the vast majority of users.

Not to mention, the additional weight of dongles closes the gap in weight between the 15 mbp and later versions, as well as the fact that the prospect of losing, misplacing or forgetting dongles could pose another inconvenience as well.

It seems like an OCD driven design decision ("we must have every port look exactly the same!"), rather than one driven by practicality.
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I don't have an iPhone X, but I need to get one for development work. I just bought a new 15" Macbook Pro (2018). Does the iPhone X come with a USB-C to Lightning cable? Or is it USB-A to Lightning?

The current X comes with a USB-A which is silly as moving to a USB-C cable and the power brick of the 12" MacBook opens it (and the iPad Pro) up to Rapid Charging which is awesome.
This year the phones are supposed to be moving to USB-C power adapters/cable (but still via Lightning)
[doublepost=1531836536][/doublepost]
It won't happen. Because USB-C TB3 port is superior to any other port, any other port inclusion will mean an exclusion of such port.

So say they wanted to go 50:50 and made their laptops 2 USB-C TB3 and 2 USB-A - as far as Apple are concerned, they have downgraded the laptop by missing out on 2 USB-C TB3 ports. What about add a USB-A in addition to the 4 USB-C? Well they see it as, why not add another USB-C instead.

Apple are happy to go through some periods of inconvenience for what they see as better technology or alternatives. They removed the CD-Rom drive, they removed the headphone socket on an iPhone, they even removed the button from the iPhone and added a notch :). I don't see USB-A returning, nor see them discarding USB-C unless their is a proven alternative that is better.

Now, if only they got rid of the darn lightning port and put USB-C on all their product line..

I would love to see Lightning go away in favor of USB-C and I think it will eventually, but Lightning is a proprietary port and offered things when it was released that Micro-USB could not. I think Lightning was really the introduction to what USB-C to follow, but Apple could move on it while USB had to go through many levels of bureaucracy to get acceptance. I also think that much like thunderbolt, most of the folks that hated Lightning only used it for charging and never realized all the benefits it brought being able to reconfigure itself to the task (video, audio, I/O, charging, etc.), much as the new port can now.

Imagine being a developer that creates Lightning connected stuff and played by the rules with Apple's licensing an certification and then they pulled the plug. Now that C is here I think it is inevitable, but they will keep lightning around a couple more years.
 
USB-A to lightning. If you want to connect it to your MacBook (other than via Wifi/Bluetooth), you need to get a new wire :(.

Thanks, just wanted to make sure. This is what I find most confusing about the current Apple lineup -- out of one side of their mouth: let's move to the future! (USB-C, at least from 2015), deal with it!

From the other side of their mouth: our latest phone doesn't ship with the cable or connector.

If they had reworked the entire ecosystem with USB-C, I'd applaud them and "I'd get it". I love USB-C. I love that my Surface Book 2 and Macbook Pro and Note 8 will be able to charge with the SAME POWER SUPPLY! That's fantastic. Think about the world that USB-C opens up for us. Love it. I can even charge them off of a battery pack. Sweet.

And that they are all Thunderbolt 3 ports on the Macbook Pro IS incredible. That's real power there.

But this journey to USB-C still doesn't feel like Apple is all-in, which confuses me.
 
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I honestly can live with only USB-C ports, but would I like one or two legacy ports on my MBP? Yeah... It would've been nice if they threw in one USB-A port like the Matebook X Pro. And maybe a SD card slot.

Other than that I don't really mind it. If I need to use HDMI, well I'll buy an adapter or a new cord. I already have to have the HDMI cord, so what harm is it to either change it out or get an adapter to put on the end of my existing cord?

I think the point here is that everyone has different use cases. For some dongle life will be more difficult to bear than others.

I broke from the iOS ecosystem and have a Pixel 2, so I'm used to the whole USB-C thing. In fact my Pixel 2 arguably goes better with the MBPs than the current iPhones. My MBP charger can quick charge my Pixel 2. My MBP itself can quick charge my Pixel 2 connected directly to the laptop. I bought an extra high capacity USB-C charging brick that can charge both my MBP and my Pixel 2. I will always have power. :D I can "see" the future. The problem is that we aren't entirely there yet for everyone's use cases.
 
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Thanks, just wanted to make sure. This is what I find most confusing about the current Apple lineup -- out of one side of their mouth: let's move to the future! (USB-C, at least from 2015), deal with it!

From the other side of their mouth: our latest phone doesn't ship with the cable or connector.

If they had reworked the entire ecosystem with USB-C, I'd applaud them and "I'd get it". I love USB-C. I love that my Surface Book 2 and Macbook Pro and Note 8 will be able to charge with the SAME POWER SUPPLY! That's fantastic. Think about the world that USB-C opens up for us. Love it. I can even charge them off of a battery pack. Sweet.

And that they are all Thunderbolt 3 ports on the Macbook Pro IS incredible. That's real power there.

But this journey to USB-C still doesn't feel like Apple is all-in, which confuses me.

The risk Apple faces is

a) Lightning port makes them money, so removing it reduces revenue.
b) There are a vast amount of periperals/accessories that are lightning enabled, including various cases/docks/sound systems which can't easily be made to work using an adapter likey you can with a headphone socket. These are not just on sale, but have been sold for theirs and could immediately become obsolete.
 
The risk Apple faces is

a) Lightning port makes them money, so removing it reduces revenue.
b) There are a vast amount of periperals/accessories that are lightning enabled, including various cases/docks/sound systems which can't easily be made to work using an adapter likey you can with a headphone socket. These are not just on sale, but have been sold for theirs and could immediately become obsolete.

Oh, I get the whole Lightning part of the equation. It is the USB-A end that can be solved by going to USB-C. Or having a USB-A/C connector/cable within either the box for the iPhone X or the Macbook Pro.

See, it is easy for Apple to claim they are being brave when the onus is on the user. But if they truly believed what they say, then they would go "all in". All of the effort now goes to us, the end user. If we saw Apple "take the hit", then I think it would be easier for us to get with the program.
 
Its 2018 and the majority of people even in apple’s macbook commercials still use dongles. I actually waited for the usb c world to come in but it seems its still the same as it was in 2016.

I like that the new 13” has quadcore, but that wont save me if i need to back up an sd card at work (i’m a photographer) and i accidentally forgot the dongle i needed.

I feel like the future they want to bring wont be for quite a while and they really should have provided a few legacy port options with the macbook. The sd card slot isnt even a legacy port in the first place. :/
 
Its 2018 and the majority of people even in apple’s macbook commercials still use dongles. I actually waited for the usb c world to come in but it seems its still the same as it was in 2016.

I like that the new 13” has quadcore, but that wont save me if i need to back up an sd card at work (i’m a photographer) and i accidentally forgot the dongle i needed.

I feel like the future they want to bring wont be for quite a while and they really should have provided a few legacy port options with the macbook. The sd card slot isnt even a legacy port in the first place. :/

The dongle's in the bag with the laptop, I don't wee that the odds of misplacing the dongle is any greater than, say misplacing the microSD to SD card adapter or any other piece of hardware. I know my bag has a great pocket in the front designed to hold an iPod and earbuds, but it holds a USB-C to A, a TB3 to 2, a USB-C to gigabit, and a USB-C to HDMI, along with a couple short cables for external hard drives ( my Samsung T3 and G-Drive are C and my Sandisk is USB Micro3 or whatever you call it. no big impact in weight or convenience. that pocket has been full of adapters for years. though the pieces have changed. At least the USB-C/TB3 dongles can be used on my Mac or my X1C.

The point is that many folks love to make fun of the dongles, but they have been a part of the laptop experience from the beginning, I remember carrying a USB to RS232 cable. In fact I still have one in the truck, just not always in the bag.
 
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I didnt need dongles in the 2015 generation mbp, everything just worked. That was why i loved it.
 
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Yes, if there is a silver lining to all of this it is that the USB-C dongles are future proof for some time and interchangeable between manufacturers. I can use my USB-C dongles on my Thinkpad, Surface Book 2, and Macbook Pro.
 
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It won't happen. Because USB-C TB3 port is superior to any other port, any other port inclusion will mean an exclusion of such port.
So say they wanted to go 50:50 and made their laptops 2 USB-C TB3 and 2 USB-A - as far as Apple are concerned, they have downgraded the laptop by missing out on 2 USB-C TB3 ports. What about add a USB-A in addition to the 4 USB-C? Well they see it as, why not add another USB-C instead.

Apple are happy to go through some periods of inconvenience for what they see as better technology or alternatives. They removed the CD-Rom drive, they removed the headphone socket on an iPhone, they even removed the button from the iPhone and added a notch :). I don't see USB-A returning, nor see them discarding USB-C unless their is a proven alternative that is better.

Now, if only they got rid of the darn lightning port and put USB-C on all their product line..

Firewire was superior to usb-a. Thunderbolt 2 was superior to usb-a. How many people use either? Not very many. Does apple support either? No.

A notch doesn't add functionality. It's simply ugly and a distraction whenever you view the screen, which is just about every time you use the phone.

Removing the headphone jack doesn't add functionality. Replacing wired EarPods with wireless AirPods doesn't add functionality. It does add $150 to the cost of earbuds however. AirPods are not better in any meaningful way. They are markedly inferior since they can be more easily lost. They are inferior in the sense that the price/performance ratio is vastly inferior to any wired product.

You're simply listing changes that apple has made. That doesn't mean these changes are improvements.
 
Firewire was superior to usb-a. Thunderbolt 2 was superior to usb-a. How many people use either? Not very many. Does apple support either? No.

A notch doesn't add functionality. It's simply ugly and a distraction whenever you view the screen, which is just about every time you use the phone.

Removing the headphone jack doesn't add functionality. Replacing wired EarPods with wireless AirPods doesn't add functionality. It does add $150 to the cost of earbuds however. AirPods are not better in any meaningful way. They are markedly inferior since they can be more easily lost. They are inferior in the sense that the price/performance ratio is vastly inferior to any wired product.

You're simply listing changes that apple has made. That doesn't mean these changes are improvements.

Apple did support FireWire/TB2 once - maybe not to the extent as USB-C, but they were not universally seen as the future perhaps as USB-C is currently.

The notch does provide some functionality, even if you don’t like it - it displays informations which otherwise would have just been a black bar. Again it’s part of their vision of maximum screen to body ratio.

As for the headphone socket, the removal is really (imo) promoting their wireless vision.

I don’t agree with Apple on everything, what I mean is that are happy to make changes even if it inconveniences users if it supports their “vision”.
 
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