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Is it really pointless buying a mac pro, if you also want to game?
- Thread starter davelanger
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You certainly are. Have you not been looking at ANY Apple news in the last 10 months? Its painfully clear that installing the Apple os onto a non-Apple machine is not legal at all. It says it right here:
http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macosx106.pdf
100% false.
Have you looked at any of the Apple related news in the last year?
Its amazing how many poor people there are that pretend(?) to be straight up ignorant just to install some software on a non-Apple machine. Get the real deal. Just because you can't afford to buy a Mercedes doesn't mean you should buy a Kia and make it look like one.
None of the games you listed will make even the base graphics card in a Mac Pro break a sweat. Especially not if you run them under Windows 7 via Bootcamp. For what your stated uses are, a Mac Pro is massive overkill. You'd be throwing away money. An iMac would even be overkill, but at least it's much more reasonably priced.
300D, the legality and enforceability of those EULAs is hardly a closed matter. You are not the Internet Police, give it a rest.
300D, the legality and enforceability of those EULAs is hardly a closed matter. You are not the Internet Police, give it a rest.
Hardly a closed matter? Are you incapable of reading a plainly-worded document? It says right there in plain English (as well as 17 other languages in the original document) that it isn't legal since you must Agree to those terms before installation, or activation of a new computer.
Absolutely not. People have no right to be suggesting somebody break the law this way any more than they do suggesting somebody rob a 7-11.
The first generation Intel iMacs could already handle those games very well. If your gaming requirements don't go beyond the WoW level, then you're safe in Apple land.
However, if you want to play something more hardware demanding like, let's say, Gears of War, Modern Warfare II, the STALKER franchise or the next generation of id Software or Unreal Engine-based games, then you're completely out of luck in Apple land. In that case, it would be better to invest in an Xbox 360 (or PS3) instead of a Mac Pro.
I have a Mac Pro and only find it acceptable as my main computer because I moved to the Xbox 360 for playing games and use my Mac as a tool.
Anyway. The games that you play are VERY light on their system requirements, and yes, even a Mac can handle that. But the day you want to play the current generation of First Person Shooters, no Mac will do you any good.
Pray tell why Apple hasn't gone after the OSx86 Project. At all. Also, installing OS X on a PC isn't the same as robbing a 7-11. Not even close.
Again, you're not the Internet Police, there really isn't much of a reason to get so worked up about this when really, you can't do a thing about it. Those who make hacks will do so regardless of your righteous indignation.
Also, it's insulting and presumptuous to assume that someone is poor because they don't want to buy a Mac. I'd love to put together a hackintosh, even though I have a Mac Pro. Guess that makes me poor, then.
davelanger: so what's the plan? Mac Pro? iMac? Hackintosh? None of them (heh)?
Winni: the iMac and Mac Pro are more than capable of handling Modern Warfare 2 or Gears of War.
1. Just because Apple has put this in a license agreement does not make it a law. So at best you might be violating the terms of a contract, but you, the customer, are by no means doing anything illegal if you install OS X on a PC. You are not violating any copyrights by installing OS X on non-Apple hardware, you are not breaking any DMCA laws or whatever else. You are just not keeping your end of a contract.
2. However, the question still is whether the conditions of this EULA are legal.
3. Only because Apple might be able to enforce this EULA in the United States in America does not make their EULA legal in all countries of the world. For example, Microsoft's original OEM EULA is legal in the United States as well, but was found to be illegal in Germany - Microsoft had to change it here, allowing customers to transfer an OEM license to ANY computer and to also re-sell that OEM license -- things that American customers are/were not allowed to do.
So I, as a German living in Europe, only begin to believe that Apple's EULA is fully valid and that accordingly it is illegal to install OS X on a PC in the moment when Apple sued the German Hackintosh companies and won in a German court of the law. Since Apple has not even yet sued them, something tells me that their European lawyers have thoroughly studied the ruling of the German Bundesgerichtshof and decided that it might be smarter for Apple to just suck it up - at least in Germany. And all the other countries that still have laws that take sides with the consumers, and not only with the corporations.
Just for the record: I've successfully turned a Dell XPS M1530 notebook into a Snow Leopard Hackintosh. It was a piece of cake to install OS X on that machine, and it did not require any actions that could be found illegal by anybody. Why? Because once the EFI boot loader was installed, a plain vanilla OS X retail DVD can be used to just install and run Mac OS X. Provided that your hardware is compatible with OS X, there are no magic bullets required to get it running on commodity hardware. Which, in turn, is living proof that Apple's machines are also only commodity hardware in nice designer cases.
Turning a desktop PC into a Hackintosh is probably even easier than installing OS X on a PC notebook - power management can be tricky on some machines.
But whatever. You guys just go on and believe whatever you want to believe. You paid a lot of money for those machines, so, of course, you have to rationalize that somehow and just have to believe that they are so much better than a Dell or even a no-name PC.
I have a Mac Pro Quad Xeon with two Apple Cinema Displays on my desk, and although the machine is okay, I know it's not the best thing since sliced bread. And I also know that I could get a better bang for the back by buying an uglier PC box. Design isn't everything - especially not when you're on a budget.
Oh, and one thing about those Mercedes/KIA pictures: Your Apple hardware is neither. You know, Dell and HP come to your home or office to pick up a computer for service. Or they send a technician to your place to do the service on site. Apple does not even have such a service offer. Now who is selling a Mercedes and who is selling a KIA?
If your a buying a Mac Pro to do work, and you want to game on the side, then sure.
Mac Pros can generally handle most of today's standard games at maximum settings pretty easily. Put up 8-cores and a stronger graphics card, you'll be running games at the same level as custom-built PCs stacked with gaming-optimized components.
At the same time, you can build a PC for gaming at a fraction of the cost of a Mac Pro that will give you similar performance in gaming, but not in the fields that the Mac Pro is made for.
If you are looking to game on a Mac Pro, then bootcamp is your most viable option unless the game runs natively on OS X.
Mac Pros can generally handle most of today's standard games at maximum settings pretty easily. Put up 8-cores and a stronger graphics card, you'll be running games at the same level as custom-built PCs stacked with gaming-optimized components.
At the same time, you can build a PC for gaming at a fraction of the cost of a Mac Pro that will give you similar performance in gaming, but not in the fields that the Mac Pro is made for.
If you are looking to game on a Mac Pro, then bootcamp is your most viable option unless the game runs natively on OS X.
How many games take advantage of more than 2 cores let alone 8?
I don't think the number of cores will have any profound impact on gaming.
If you lack the knowledge to hackintosh, and need OSX, it makes very much sense tbh.
but the route you (dave) are asking for, is the hackintosh route.
im going to make the ultimate hackintosh thread in a few days, stay tuned
Hi Cindori,
I'm very close to buying a PC, possibly within the next month or so and here are the specs I'm looking at:
- Intel Core i5 750 Quad-Core 2.66 GHz 8MB L3 Cache. 45nm, 64-Bit
- (3.99GHz overclocked)
- MSI N275 GTX Twin Frozer OC nVidia GeForce GTX275
- Asus Rampage II GENE CrossFire /SLI Triple-CH DDR3
- 8GB Memory DDR3 1333MHz Triple CH
My understanding is that the Rampage II Gene motherboard is friendly with Snow Leopard. Is this correct? What's the likelihood of Apple breaking something with the next iteration of OSX such that it cannot be used with current generation Hackintoshes?
Thanks.
Mac Pro does the job - depends on what you want it for.
Hi Dave,
I upgraded from a G5 dual 2.7 to an '09 Quad 2.66 with the ATI4870 and was a bit nervous about the multi application performance (I used to be able to cook a roast dinner waiting for the G5 to process some photos and let's forget about running WoW at the same time). It runs fantastically!
With Adobe chugging away batching large RAW images in the background I still show circa 40-50fps in Dalaran and 100+ in any of the less populated areas (that's at 2560x1600 and about 50% CPU max). It is expensive, and it was the first time in many years that I contemplated returning to a built PC, but when you add up all the hassle of switching apps, data structures and not using OSX, I decided it was worth the money - and definitely been happy with the choice.
Cheers,
Isaac
Hi Dave,
I upgraded from a G5 dual 2.7 to an '09 Quad 2.66 with the ATI4870 and was a bit nervous about the multi application performance (I used to be able to cook a roast dinner waiting for the G5 to process some photos and let's forget about running WoW at the same time). It runs fantastically!
With Adobe chugging away batching large RAW images in the background I still show circa 40-50fps in Dalaran and 100+ in any of the less populated areas (that's at 2560x1600 and about 50% CPU max). It is expensive, and it was the first time in many years that I contemplated returning to a built PC, but when you add up all the hassle of switching apps, data structures and not using OSX, I decided it was worth the money - and definitely been happy with the choice.
Cheers,
Isaac
Because its not a business, there is nobody to go after.
Incorrect. I can educate people willing/capable of learning so they won't make fools of themselves through ignorance of the law.
Not in the least. People that make Hackintrash usually cite cost as a driving factor.
Actually, it does. Thats the entire point of having a user agreement in the first place.
False again. You're breaking a legal contract you agreed to when you pressed that button. Simple as that.
Which is.....illegal.
Lets break out the elementary school level explanation!
contract
noun |ˈkänˌtrakt|
a written or spoken agreement, esp. one concerning employment, sales, or tenancy, that is intended to be enforceable by law : both parties must sign employment contracts | a network of doctors and hospitals under contract to provide services.
• the branch of law concerned with the making and observation of such agreements.
Its Apple's software, they own it, they can do with it as they like. If you don't like the terms, you aren't being forced to buy it and there are several alternative operating systems to choose from when building a computer.
Thats because Germany's government took a nosedive in competence after WWII.
Does Dell manufacture Apple-branded hardware? No? Guess what...that makes it illegal.
Good for you! Your Kia now looks like a Mercedes, but you still bought and use a Kia.
What was I saying earlier about money and Hackintrashers.....?
That makes absolutely zero sense at all. Have you actually looked into the on-site services offered by Apple?
Pretty much everything written within the last 9 years.
You make a big effort to piss of many people here, don't you?
German government showed at least enough competence to keep us out of some foolish US actions such as Iraque II. If you must insult people don't do it on shaky grounds.
You clearly have no education in legal matters or you would know that contracts are not at all equal to law. Contracts are made between private parties and laws are made by sovereign nations or super national bodies.
If contract clauses are contradicted by national or super national law they are obviously invalid in that territory and cannot be enforced regardless of parties consenting or not.
Eulas, that contain contradicting clauses to the law in major parts of the world are obviously not worth the paper they are printed on.
Because its not a business, there is nobody to go after.
Incorrect. I can educate people willing/capable of learning so they won't make fools of themselves through ignorance of the law.
Not in the least. People that make Hackintrash usually cite cost as a driving factor.
Actually, it does. Thats the entire point of having a user agreement in the first place.
False again. You're breaking a legal contract you agreed to when you pressed that button. Simple as that.
Which is.....illegal.
Lets break out the elementary school level explanation!
contract
noun |ˈkänˌtrakt|
a written or spoken agreement, esp. one concerning employment, sales, or tenancy, that is intended to be enforceable by law : both parties must sign employment contracts | a network of doctors and hospitals under contract to provide services.
the branch of law concerned with the making and observation of such agreements.
Its Apple's software, they own it, they can do with it as they like. If you don't like the terms, you aren't being forced to buy it and there are several alternative operating systems to choose from when building a computer.
Thats because Germany's government took a nosedive in competence after WWII.
Does Dell manufacture Apple-branded hardware? No? Guess what...that makes it illegal.
Good for you! Your Kia now looks like a Mercedes, but you still bought and use a Kia.
What was I saying earlier about money and Hackintrashers.....?
That makes absolutely zero sense at all. Have you actually looked into the on-site services offered by Apple?
Pretty much everything written within the last 9 years.
WOW you are one angry Troll. Stop blabbering about nonsense and thread crapping. This post is not about legality of hackintosh or anything else other than person asking whether to buy a mac pro or not. Others are right, your main point of posting is to piss of as many people as possible. Brush up on your law skills as you seem to lack them and go bother someone else.
The manufacturer of the software has specifically asked for it not to be done. Technically 'legal' or not, to me at least, we all know they don't want us to do it. Isn't it like purchasing iwork for personal use and then handing it out to your family when you know you should have bought the 'family' edition? Any who... as to the op's question,
If you bought the game, would an apple store allow you to install it and demonstrate it? Is that even legal
If you bought the game, would an apple store allow you to install it and demonstrate it? Is that even legal
If you bought the game, would an apple store allow you to install it and demonstrate it? Is that even legal
If you had it on an external drive I bet they'd be willing to let you try a game, at least. Before CompUSA went under my brother and I would try out various games on their computers and they didn't have a problem with it.
If you bought the game, would an apple store allow you to install it and demonstrate it? Is that even legal
Yeah, I don't see why not. Couldn't hurt to ask. Although, I don't know how long they'd let you 'test' the system... and I'm assuming you'd want to test for a fairly long time to see about the heat issues? Still, couldn't hurt considering the investment into one of these things.
Thank you for demonstrating exactly how little you know (about me and law).
Ah, so because its legal in Germany, it sets the grounds that it should be legal everywhere! Makes perfect sense!
The law is nonsense? Great! We can disband the police and justice system. I think we can trust everyone to make the right choices on their own.
Wait a minute... I thought you where a computer expert.... So you're a lawyer now?Thank you for demonstrating exactly how little you know (about me and law).
EULA's are not law, but a contract, and they CANNOT supersede local, state or federal laws in the US. That means some of the language is entirely invalid, depending on location (i.e. if such laws actually exist). It's the same with foreign countries, and some are more apt to support their citizens rights, not corporate greed. Simply put, each country is different, so what applies in one, may be nothing more than hot air in another.
wow. what a shambles. if somebody is considereing building a hack i doubt that they care about the legal issues
they are great, cheap machines
they are great, cheap machines