Is it time to finally switch back to windows?

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by Ghost31, Nov 1, 2016.

  1. Ghost31 macrumors 68020

    Ghost31

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2015
    #1
    ok. I'm a bit nauseated talking about this because I feel like the hate for the new MacBooks is already so...so big. And it's time to just calm the hell down and breathe. Ya know? It's not healthy to get this worked up and stay like that for long periods of time. We all said our piece...now we are gonna go vote with our wallets like the smart tax paying citizens we are and the market will figure all this out and we'll just go from there.

    But I do find this topic interesting as someone studying society and the history of technology and looking at the philosophy of both companies going forward.

    Apple makes a solid laptop and their guys say they prototyped touchscreen macs and it didn't work out so we're getting more of a refresh with a touch bad. So they're way of thinking as always is to do their own research and make the decisions for us. And then we adapt.

    Microsoft on the other hand seems more response to want consumers are asking for. I just rewatched the surface pro 4 keynote (where they also introduced the surface book) and it couldn't be more apparent that they listen, design and release. You wanted pen storage? We gave it to you. You wanted a better keyboard with good key travel and a bigger touch pad with fingerprint sensor? We gave it to you. You wanted a pen with an eraser that also acts as a button? We gave it to you. It's just fascinating watching a company go from being one of the most dull companies ever to being hungry. Giving people exactly what they want and pushing themselves to make great products.

    Just in case you're bored and wanna watch, here you go buddy


    And I've been really surprised talking to professionals in a few fields from photography and video editing to computer science and development. Someone I just met at a hackathon was just telling me they don't use most of the software they used to use on their MacBook Pro like aperture and final cut because the windows alternatives have become so much better. And when it comes to pro software, Apple just doesn't seem like they care anymore (their words not mine) this person has been in the industry for 30 years, so it was interesting getting their perspective on this. Talked to a few others that were talking about development too and how things have changed over time and it's just odd. The tone of these conversations has changed over the past couple years and like last year when i went to these meet ups, these tech guys would have a general attitude "I like Apple. I'm a bit underwhelmed, but I'll still buy their stuff just because I'm so used to working on OS X". Now the tone shifted to be more vitriolic to "I don't see the point anymore and I'm not only not impressed I find better alternatives on windows. Not only that. Windows 10 isn't the headache it used to be and I actually like it now"

    I don't know man. I think Apple still makes quality hardware, but it's much different to see Apple now vs the competition than it was a few years ago. Might give the surface pro a try just to make sure I'm not missing out on anything. Nice to know I can still use some of my iCloud stuff with it like photos, contacts, calendar, email, iTunes, etc

    Here's another article with similar sentiment
    http://resourcemagonline.com/2016/10/is-it-time-to-give-windows-another-chance/71629/
     
  2. stockscalper macrumors 6502a

    stockscalper

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2003
    Location:
    Area 51
    #2
    The Windows notebooks have come along way as have Windows 10. Apple needs to be on its toes and really should reconsider putting crappy keyboards in their notebooks, charging extra for dongles and extension cords and then jacking up the price. They don't even include the micro fiber screen cloth anymore. Some of the competition not only include the items Apple charges for, but a carry sleeve at $500 less for the same hardware specs. Apple used to get away with charging more because their products offered more - especially in quality. But the competition is catching up or maybe has caught up or moved ahead in the quality arena. I know the last two Mac notebooks I've owned have not been the same quality as the older ones. I've had trackpads wear out in both of them and I can't tell you how many power supplies I've replaced at 80 bucks a pop for cord fraying. Do a Google search on this issue, it's a big problem.
     
  3. Abazigal macrumors G3

    Abazigal

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2011
    Location:
    Singapore
    #3
    As the saying goes - the grass always seems greener on the other side.

    Neither company is wrong, imo. It ultimately boils down to a divergence in philosophy and what each believes will result in the better user experience for the consumer. We can debate till the cows come home about who is right, but then we would be neglecting the simple fact that different people have different needs.

    If you think Macs no longer meet your needs and that Windows might be a better fit, go for it. Maybe it will all work out for the best (in which case you are better off). Else, you might realise that Apple products are still better at the end of the day and come to appreciate them better.
     
  4. Gregintosh macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2008
    Location:
    Chicago
    #4
    Some of the Windows hardware looks nice and feels nice in the store. But after taking a few Windows machines home for work purposes over the last couple of years, I grew frustrated and tired of them fairly quickly.

    To me, there's just no substitute for MacOS and Apples solid build quality. Yes. They have occasional defects too, as did my own MacBooks pro, but they got taken care of.

    After being a Windows fanboy and computer repair tech I tried Mac in 2006 after the Vista debacle and never looked back. It's just a superior ecosystem if you want to get stuff done and not hassle yourself with drivers, malware, weird stuff to troubleshoot etc. just feels like Mac has a lot less of all those problems.

    Is the new MacBook good enough? I think it is. It is a very forward looking laptop and Apple didn't give people a chance to transition. That's a big part of the backlash. And of course Apple doesn't make its own processors or many of the components and so they had to go with what's there, and that disappointed some too.

    But I think it's a fine machine and does something unique now that the PCs can't and won't be able to copy well (Touch Bar).
     
  5. el-John-o macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2010
    Location:
    Missouri
    #5
    20 years ago, you could watch Steve Jobs put a Pentium II on a snail (well, in photoshop) and talk about how a 266MHz G3 was as fast as a 500MHz Pentium II, which didn't even exist. And fancy charts would come up showing how Macs were twice as fast as the worlds fastest PC's and at half the price. Then they'd put an $8,000 top of the range PC next to a $1,400 middle-of-the-road iMac, run some program, and the crowd would cheer and shout as the colorful Mac blew away the Windows PC. If pure performance was your aim, you simply had to get a Mac. There was lots of Mac exclusive software simply because that software wouldn't run well on most Windows PC's and it wasn't worth the developers time to do high end content creation software on anything but a Macintosh. Since developing on two seperate CPU platforms took a lot of resources, some developers just didn't bother wasting their time supporting Intel powered Windows machines, and focused their energy on the holy grail of powerful computing (at the time), PowerPC Equipped Macintosh machines.

    Things have changed. Intel caught up. Then it overtook. Then it left PowerPC in it's dust. That's why Apple Switched. And in the years since, things have changed even more. For one, CPU development has shifted entirely. The focus is on mobile chips designed for smartphones (there are significantly more ARM CPU's shipping than the x86 type that go into Laptops and Desktops), and on making x86 type CPU's more efficient. 20 years ago next years model would be TWICE as fast as last years model. Right now it's looking like we could potentially go three whole generations of Intel mobile CPU's without a significant increase in speed (the chips after Kaby Lake may support faster memory). The focus is on lowering watts, not increasing performance. CPU manufacturers kind of hit a wall on clock speed (2~3GHz has been the standard for TEN YEARS now), and for a while made up for it with better cache, better memory, and more cores. But even THAT has slowed down.

    The result? Everyone has caught up. Even low end Windows PC's are plenty fast. And PC manufacturers are doing some really great things. I still happen to think Apple builds the best notebooks. But the top of the line Windows PC's these days are really, really good. GPU development is one place where there's still some really exciting progress; and right now, Windows PC's are getting the Lion's share of that.

    There's still some extraordinary advantages to a Mac, including the new very expensive Mac's. But, for the first time in a long time; there's also some extraordinary advantages to a Windows machine. Windows is finally great, the hardware is finally fast, and PC manufacturers have finally decided to start building some quality stuff; instead of plastic boxes that feel like a cheap toy stuffed with terrible hardware.

    I'm not going to decry the end of Apple, or jump on the "Apple doesn't care about Pro Customers" bandwagon. I've been hearing it for years. It started with the iMac and the iPod really. Apple switched from a line of powerful niche products to clearly being an everyday consumer focused company way back then. And then I was hearing "It's an iPod company, not a pro company". In fact, I still really like Apple computers. But, I can't honestly and with a straight face say "Windows PC's are junk" anymore, because they just simply aren't. You really can't go wrong with either. Size up your needs, figure out what you want, set a budget to it; and get what checks the most boxes for you.
     
  6. BenTrovato macrumors 68030

    BenTrovato

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Location:
    Canada
    #6
    Call it like it is. Windows is better than before but not better than MacOS (not right now anyway). Macs are still expensive and need to come down in price but in the meantime they do provide one of the best user experiences (for now).
     
  7. David58117 macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2013
    #7
    I'm switching.

    I think it was with the Surface Pro 3 that Microsoft started aiming ahead of Apple. Sure there were bugs - but Microsoft listened, worked with the community, and fixed (most) of them. Even things like having members of the OneNote development team on reddit, answering questions/listening to the community...that's really cool to see...

    The Microsoft store and warranty have been great, and it's crazy how fast they've come from nothing to something that rivals Apple.
     
  8. Rafterman macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2010
    #8
    Its not about the hardware, its about the OS. Or at least it is for me. Yes, it would have been nice if they provided a 32GB option, the latest gen processor and at least one USB 3 port.

    But they didn't. While I like Windows 10, I prefer MacOS. I still feel like MacOS is the best for me and the hardware takes a back seat.

    So, whatever you choose to do, you need to look at what kinds of things you do and base it on that - and not specs or features. And if it is something about a feature that really bugs you, make sure its one actually care about. So, if the touch screen is a huge thing for you and you know you'l actually use it (not that is just a "cool" feature), then go Microsoft.

    By the way, the Surface Pro 4 is an awesome machine, I have a maxed out version (i7, 16GB, 1TB). Too bad it doesn't run MacOS ;)
     
  9. ctdw macrumors member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    #9
    I work in IT and I can tell you that the quality of most Windows notebooks (even high-end business class) are not the same as a MacBook with MacOS. Many are released with driver bugs/issues that are never really resolved before a new model comes out 6 months later with it's own issues.
     
  10. Fishrrman macrumors G5

    Fishrrman

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2009
    #10
    I've been a Mac user (99.9999% exclusively) since 1987.

    It will NEVER be time for me to "switch back" to windows... ;)
     
  11. marc55 macrumors 6502a

    marc55

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2011
    #11
    You can switch to Windows if you want, but as for me, I've been a Mac user since 2015, and I'm sticking with what I consider the best.
    M
     
  12. dumastudetto macrumors 68030

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2013
    #12
    My take on this -
    if you hate yourself enough to consider switching back to Windows, please consult with a doctor first.
     
  13. NeilHD macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2014
    #13
    My neighbour upgraded his Windows 7 to Windows 10 the other day. Invariably it went wrong and I spent a few hours sorting it out. I also regularly have to fix my parents computers, and my in-laws. Basically, anyone I know who has a Windows PC.

    In contrast, I haven't had a single problem at home with OSX on my Mac - ever - and neither have any of my friends who have them.

    So I will stick with Mac. BUT, I am not paying new MBP prices... so when I need to replace either my Mini or my Air I'm not sure what I'll do. Refurb store, probably!
     
  14. Ryan1524 macrumors 68000

    Ryan1524

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2003
    Location:
    Canada GTA
    #14
    Nope. MacOS is still the better option for day-to-day productivity.

    In Windows, no one thing is a big issue, and the OS is generally 'good'. It's the thousands of little annoyances in Windows that add up to a genuinely unpleasant experience.
     
  15. mikeo007 macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2010
    #15
    Windows 10 is honestly the first Windows OS that I can actually "stand" to use. They're moving in the right direction very slowly. That being said, it's still absolutely awful for touch input, and still has way too many drawbacks for me to use it at this point. I find that MacOS just gets out of my way and lets me use the computer, while Windows 10 is always in your face.

    Just as an example, MacOS lets me choose when to updates. Windows 10 automatically downloads updates at the worst possible time, and wants to reboot on a whim. I had to employ 2 "fixes" that involved registry hacks to stop this from happening.
     
  16. Ghost31 thread starter macrumors 68020

    Ghost31

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2015
    #17
    You better update us after you get it and let us know how awesome it was!
     
  17. jlp2979 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    #18
    Very nervous about Razer support honestly, but I can't justify buying a MBP. Especially since I'me getting SO much more for the same price and don't need 8-10 hours of battery life. I love Apple I really do. I just went through a couple 12" rMBs but returned because of backlight bleed, poor uniformity, and dead pixels. Goal was to get a 12" rMB and either a new 13" / 14" as a daily driver. Will use the Blade as my only device. And I don't need stupid dongles to connect a portable scanner, ethernet dongle, ergonomic mouse + keyboard, or charge my phone. Apple is ignoring a huge segment of consumers with their courageous decisions. Voting with my wallet.
     
  18. jetsam1 macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    #19
    I've only played with Windows 10 for a little bit on an old Asus C2D that ran Windows 7 on the free upgrade. Sadly I think that PC was a bit too old and didn't play nice. 10 seemed ok though. There are just a few niggles such as I have concerns about how much usage data gets sent to MS and the whole keylogging thing. Constant updating too.

    I'm not against Windows, essentially grew up with it used XP for years, but I would need a longer play with 10 to be certain. Decent PCs that are comparable with a Macbook get pricey too. Battery life? Everything seems to have some sort of compromise.

    Laptops I was looking at was the Dell XPS and Lenovo Thinkpads (T series and L series).

    Still may try and find a decent 2015 13". Going more portable this time.
     
  19. jlp2979 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    #20
    If you're considering Lenovo, T series (or X) all the way.
     
  20. Mildredop macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2013
    #21
    I'm genuinely interested in considering switching back to Windows. I recently came back to iOS but was pretty underwhelmed. The release of the new Macs and their lack of direction made me reconsider the iPhone. I've now returned it and gone back to Android.

    The only thing is, I can't find a Windows machine that's as simple and beautiful as my 2015 MacBook Pro. I only browse the web, watch porn, send emails etc., so don't need something hugely powerful.

    I want something that looks great, great screen, great battery, is thin and light. Money isn't really an issue, but definitely don't want cheap.
     
  21. Ghost31 thread starter macrumors 68020

    Ghost31

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2015
    #22
    Look at the new super thin hp laptops. Or the spectre series. They are very comparable to apple on quality and when I used to have hp, their support was stellar.

    And ya know what's great about windows? If you don't like what 1 company is giving you, you can leave and try another. Obviously not so with mac

    https://www.wired.com/2016/04/hp-spectre-13-sexiest-windows-laptop-can-imagine/
     
  22. manhattanboy macrumors 6502a

    manhattanboy

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2007
    Location:
    In ur GF's bed, Oh no he didn't!
    #23
    Do yourself a favor instead of pontificating on the internet: run bootcamp and windows exclusively for two weeks on your laptop (that is do not boot up once into Mac OS). If you are happy then make the switch to a Windows machine. If you are not, then you have your answer.
     
  23. jetsam1, Nov 1, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2016

    jetsam1 macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    #24
    I like the dual batteries in the 14" models. All I want is relatively reliable, lightish and built properly. Been playing with the configurator on the UK site. Living in Hungary means finding the higher end equipment is not always easy. Would be nice to able to open it up myself and replace RAM etc. I have the a mid 2012 quad core cMBP and upgrading to 16gb ram and an ssd is looking good as it would expand its life dramatically (and I do think it is a cracking machine and should do another 3-4 years as my 2008 MB is 8 years old and only just starting to get a few issues). 4-8 years is what I hope for as a value proposition.

    Computing being what it is it may be worth going a base configuration on the Thinkpad with the best processor and do the RAm and SSD myself for buttons (relatively speaking). And wait it out to see what comes for a power replacement for the 2012 (I paid around £2300 for it if I remember correctly with the Matte screen, no idea where the receipt is though! Or if that included Applecare or not).

    What I am interested in is how WIndows 10 manages power as I have got used to 4-6 hours of battery life.

    I would say that I need a portable solution imminently but to replace my 15" MBP I am prepared to wait. Just don't mind having multiple OS running. Always had a Windows computer alongside the Macs.
     
  24. Macalway macrumors 68030

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2013
    #25
    It's not just the OS. Apple controls every aspect of the Apple ecosystem.

    When you go elsewhere, it's all over the place. But if you can't afford Apple, or if it just bugs you, Windows 10 is fine, HP is a great company.
    --- Post Merged, Nov 1, 2016 ---
    There's another thing worth mentioning. We all are really complaining about the cost of excellence. It would be much worse if we were complaining about the opposite.
     

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