Is it time to finally switch back to windows?

[CZ9MM]

I use the Surface Pro 3 and 4 at work. I have no option because that is what was provided to me. I hate it. The freeze, unresponsive touch screen occasionally, buggy crashes, etc.

Don't get me started on the stylus. We have went through about five of them. One of them was dead out of the box.

 

[ctyrider]

We can build lists like this all day long. Let's take OSX:

- Ugly. Ugly widgets, solid rat-gray everywhere. Easily the ugliest desktop OS out there. Granted Windows went through its own uglification after Aero, but still, it looks a bit better.
- Can't disable a bunch of useless OS crap. Like the AppleTV icon taking real estate in my menu bar - I don't have an AppleTV, and I never plan to waste money on one. Why is the icon there?

Stopped reading after this. It would have taken you fraction of the time you took to type this - Prefs/Displays/Show Mirroring Options.

 

[H1Supreme]

I'm gonna give myself a month to decide, but I don't think I'll be considering a switch to Windows (on a laptop) as an option. Like lots of us, I've been reading about every other laptop in the $1500 category that exists. Aside from the Razer Blade Stealth, they're all a bit meh. But, Razer's have their own QA issues, and some customer service stories that have scared me off.

My final consensus on the matter is: If I'm going to spending over $1,000-1,500 on a laptop, it's going to be an Apple. Period. Buying an XPS 13 or something would be a compromise. A very expensive compromise. And, I know that every computer manufacturer has problems. But, the few times I dealt with Apple support, they were amazing.

Problem is, I need a new laptop, yesterday. My nearly 7 year old Core2Duo Macbook is slow...as a turtle, and needs replaced. Since I use my laptop mainly for dev work, and making heavy use of the terminal, my other option will be an off lease Lenovo without a hard drive for like $300. I'll throw an SSD in it, install some form of Linux on there, and call it a day. And then probably buy a new guitar to make up for my sadness.

 

[Mildredop]

So you'll spend money on a $2000 computer and $1000 phone but you won't spend $100 on a pair of good headphones? And you dont have any pairs lying around? At this point I'm surprised Apple still bundles them at all to be honest. Wouldn't be surprised if this is the last iPhone they do so with.

No, you can't charge your phone via MacBook, but a $20 dongle will do it if you need that ability which isn't a common use case. Presumably a person who can buy $3k worth of luxury tech can afford it. I personally haven't plugged my phone into my computers for charging purposes in about 5 years though and haven't known of many people who do either.

Will be a moot point in a year or two when the iPhones have no ports at all (wireless charging). Will people complain their laptop doesn't have a wireless charging base?

I never do either of these things and every set of headphones from my last 5 iPhones are still in the box. Your issues don't apply to many many people.

I'm surprised anyone is trying to defend Apple's actions.

The MacBook was released with one USB-C port, the iPhone 7 with a Lightning port (and lightning headphones) and now the MacBook Pro with Thunderbolt and a 3.5mm socket.

The last three products they've released are all working towards different standards. It's like Apple's development departments aren't even talking to each other. If it's a 'transition period' then include a range of ports for a couple of generations: keep the headphone jack on the iPhone but include lighning headphones, for example.

If there are over 900 million lighting connector devices, making it the largest digital audio connection in the world, why didn't Apple include a lightning connector on the MacBook Pro? Why have they gone back to the 3.5mm jack just weeks after telling us it was time to move on?

Apple are asking me to continue to invest in their products, but I don't think even they know in what direction they're headed.

But funnily enough, I'm not annoyed at Apple. I'm annoyed at Microsoft and Google for not seizing this opportunity. Windows is still an unpleasant OS to work with and looks busy and messy. And Google's Chrome OS just isn't any good for the majority of users.

There's a real opening in the market at the moment, and no-one is stepping forward.

 

[Rkuda]

Apple makes a solid laptop and their guys say they prototyped touchscreen macs and it didn't work out so we're getting more of a refresh with a touch bad. So they're way of thinking as always is to do their own research and make the decisions for us. And then we adapt.

Microsoft on the other hand seems more response to want consumers are asking for. I just rewatched the surface pro 4 keynote (where they also introduced the surface book) and it couldn't be more apparent that they listen, design and release. You wanted pen storage? We gave it to you. You wanted a better keyboard with good key travel and a bigger touch pad with fingerprint sensor? We gave it to you. You wanted a pen with an eraser that also acts as a button? We gave it to you. It's just fascinating watching a company go from being one of the most dull companies ever to being hungry. Giving people exactly what they want and pushing themselves to make great products.

Well lets see. Here is what I was asking for on a redesigned MBP.


- Better GPU
- Potentially some kind of official eGPU option
- DCI-P3 support to bring it inline with iPad Pro and iPhone 7
- One or two TB3 ports
- A keyboard that had the stability of the butterfly switches, but a better tactile feel than rMB keyboard
- Quad-core Skylake CPU
- A superfast SSD starting at 512GB
- Smaller, Ligther case.
- The option of a color other than classic silver
- Bigger (16")screen size or Bezel-less screen

Looks like they did pretty good overall. They also did the bigger trackpad and fingerprint scanner from your list above for bonus points too.

And I've been really surprised talking to professionals in a few fields from photography and video editing to computer science and development. Someone I just met at a hackathon was just telling me they don't use most of the software they used to use on their MacBook Pro like aperture and final cut because the windows alternatives have become so much better. And when it comes to pro software, Apple just doesn't seem like they care anymore (their words not mine) this person has been in the industry for 30 years, so it was interesting getting their perspective on this. Talked to a few others that were talking about development too and how things have changed over time and it's just odd. The tone of these conversations has changed over the past couple years and like last year when i went to these meet ups, these tech guys would have a general attitude "I like Apple. I'm a bit underwhelmed, but I'll still buy their stuff just because I'm so used to working on OS X". Now the tone shifted to be more vitriolic to "I don't see the point anymore and I'm not only not impressed I find better alternatives on windows. Not only that. Windows 10 isn't the headache it used to be and I actually like it now"

Good for them, I hope they enjoy their new computing experience and don't waste their precious time posting inane hate about Apple computers on Apple forums anymore.

Crazy to know all those photographers, video editors, and meetup/hackathon developers could switch their whole system, workflows and potentially specialized software over to Windows 10 so easily. All in about half a week. Amazing!!!

I would have thought it would have taken them at least 4 days just to get over their manic hysteria after the existential crisis that is the Apple logo not glowing anymore and no startup chime.

 

[dexterie]

I think it's a bit like when people feel tempted to buy an android phone. "oh, their displays are much better...faster processors and come with wireless charging and a magic wand" and then, months later "oh i regret switching because it's laggy and not that great after all" (happened to me, won't happen again)

i also have a windows 10 laptop and i bought it because back then, i didn't have enough available cash to buy a macbook pro. not that the laptop is bad..it's still alive, but i just don't like it that much... i honestly avoid using it so much that i took it to my parents' house and left it there for when i visit and i need a PC (and even so..i find myself using my ipad a lot more than the laptop...)

it all comes down to preference and how much you want to spend. i see macs as a long term investment. i plan to keep mine for at least 5 years. i can't picture myself keeping (well..using daily) a windows laptop.

avoid falling for the bells and whistles... macs (and most apple products) are a lot more reliable. you know what you're buying and you will be able to rely on them.

just my 2cents

 

[maflynn]

avoid falling for the bells and whistles... macs (and most apple products) are a lot more reliable. you know what you're buying and you will be able to rely on them.

Well, that has been the case, but failing dGPUs and staingate has surely shaken my faith in apple products.

I do believe they well built but such systematic failures of entire model line is not something that should have happen

 

[newdeal]

the fact that the new macbook pros had me thinking that maybe I should buy a macbook, which until now I thought was a total joke of a computer at a total joke of a price, certainly makes me realize that Apple is likely to lose me as a customer of macs, and if windows 10 gets SMS integration with Android they will lose me as an iphone customer also after that

 

[Queen6]

- Can't scroll windows in the background. They have to be brought forward, covering what I am working on.

Isn't that awful? There used to be a power toy to fix that back in the xp days.

Windows 10 scrolls background windows etc.

Q-6

 

[stockscalper]

Setting the high price of the new pro's aside, I've seen some tests that show the i5 used in the low end Pro really holds up well against a faster i7. The Pro SSD has a really fast write time which helps the overall feeling it's fast. But, I can't type on the crappy butterfly keyboard. As much as I try I make a ton of mistakes. Maybe in time I would get used to it.

A lot of problems with Windows is that the computers are made by so many different people and there are conflicts/issues with drivers, etc. The latest HP Spectre x360 was designed with Microsoft engineers consulting heavily on the project and supposedly will be better matched with its hardware and drivers. It has a better keyboard than the Pro's too. It's touchscreen is responsive and doesn't lag in the time I've played with one. Windows 10 doesn't bother me, but the constant almost every day updating like Android is a nuisance.

So, what's a person to do who needs to replace their aging Mac notebook? Hold your nose and pay the outrageous Apple tax and hope you can get used to the keyboard or jump ship to one of the thin, much cheaper, Windows ultrabooks?

 

[T-Bob]

This year I'm doing the exact opposite. Windows 10 and its assortment of bugs (many related to domains) has driven me to MacOS as an exclusive day to day platform, and at the moment still discovering new tools and software to aid in transition. Its either this, or Linux which doesn't seem to have the same developer pool.

 

[H1Supreme]

I think it's a bit like when people feel tempted to buy an android phone. "oh, their displays are much better...faster processors and come with wireless charging and a magic wand" and then, months later "oh i regret switching because it's laggy and not that great after all")

What Android version are you talking about? Up to Android 5, I would agree with you. Android 5 and beyond, I couldn't disagree more. The latest versions are as good, or better than iOS, imo. I got an amazing deal on a MotoG, and it's now my main phone. I still prefer iOS on tablets, but iOS will have to do something spectacular to get me back on board for phones.

 

[Gregintosh]

I'm surprised anyone is trying to defend Apple's actions.

The MacBook was released with one USB-C port, the iPhone 7 with a Lightning port (and lightning headphones) and now the MacBook Pro with Thunderbolt and a 3.5mm socket.

The last three products they've released are all working towards different standards. It's like Apple's development departments aren't even talking to each other. If it's a 'transition period' then include a range of ports for a couple of generations: keep the headphone jack on the iPhone but include lighning headphones, for example.

If there are over 900 million lighting connector devices, making it the largest digital audio connection in the world, why didn't Apple include a lightning connector on the MacBook Pro? Why have they gone back to the 3.5mm jack just weeks after telling us it was time to move on?

Apple are asking me to continue to invest in their products, but I don't think even they know in what direction they're headed.

I will agree that Apple does feel disorganized. They should have included a lightning port for headphones on the new Mac to keep it consistent. It would have also encouraged manufacturers further to make lightning headsets.

The port inconsistencies should have been thought through better. And while even though hardly anyone needs to synch via cable to their Mac anymore the optics of the phone coming with USB while the Mac has no compatible ports out of the box does hurt the image.

Maybe next year we will get usb-c cables with the iPhones (assuming they don't go for wireless charging).

But these things aren't dealbreakers. They don't prevent you from having to alter your work flow one bit. And if you are in the 1% of users who are affected, there's a cable or adapter to fix it.

 

[Harthag]

Apple's form over function mentality has driven me away from their laptops, as stated when I posted about the Blade I just ordered. The ONLY 2 things Apple has going for it, in my humble opinion, are 1) ability to walk into a store and get A+ support quickly and 2) 16:10 aspect ratio. That's it. It is inexcusable that they remove all USB 3.x ports. At least keep 2 traditional USB and add in 2 USB-C ports for future proofing. That's what a company who cares about customers would've done. Also inexcusable that I can't connect my iPhone to a MBP without a dongle. Again, they don't care. It's all about the money and nickel and diming us to buy 5 dongles. Lastly, it's insane that they are sacrificing battery life for the sake of thinness. My local Apple store has an entire wall filled with all dongles. I couldn't believe it when I saw it. Apple watches and dongles, that's what Apple wants to be. Have fun with that Tim!

I'm not artsy, I don't create content, I don't do graphic design. I'm an average guy who uses a laptop for office work and meetings, and if my server goes down a temporary mobile server for a day or 2 if I'm away from the office. And an occasional game when on the go. Sorry Apple, I'm not going to buy dongles to connect my wireless KB+mouse, scanner, printer, ethernet when needed, and a monitor when needed. I'm not going to spend $2799 (as I'd configure it) on your over-priced and impractical 15" laptop. Or $1799 on your 13" gimped MBP with last year's tech. No excuse to not release the 13" with dual core Kaby Lake. I couldn't care less about a useless touch bar that lets me set an emoji faster.

That's why I have given up and went with a quad core 14" laptop, with real GPU, weighs 4 pounds, MATTE screen, and all the ports I would need, including a TB3 / USB-C port for future proofing.

It blows my mind that Apple doesn't make a 14" laptop that weighs 4 pounds, .75-.8 inches thick, great battery, quad core CPU, matte 16:10 or 3:2 screen, and 2 USB 3.x ports, 2 TB3 ports, HDMI, smart card reader. A Mac like this would sell like hot cakes. I'd buy two of them.

Very excited for the release of the ThinkPad Retro / Classic, that will likely be the perfect business thin and light laptop. And will sell very well. Never thought I'd see the day when Lenovo listens to what customers actually want more than Apple.

 

[redkamel]

I'm surprised anyone is trying to defend Apple's actions.

The MacBook was released with one USB-C port, the iPhone 7 with a Lightning port (and lightning headphones) and now the MacBook Pro with Thunderbolt and a 3.5mm socket.

The last three products they've released are all working towards different standards. It's like Apple's development departments aren't even talking to each other. If it's a 'transition period' then include a range of ports for a couple of generations: keep the headphone jack on the iPhone but include lighning headphones, for example.

If there are over 900 million lighting connector devices, making it the largest digital audio connection in the world, why didn't Apple include a lightning connector on the MacBook Pro? Why have they gone back to the 3.5mm jack just weeks after telling us it was time to move on?

Apple are asking me to continue to invest in their products, but I don't think even they know in what direction they're headed.

But funnily enough, I'm not annoyed at Apple. I'm annoyed at Microsoft and Google for not seizing this opportunity. Windows is still an unpleasant OS to work with and looks busy and messy. And Google's Chrome OS just isn't any good for the majority of users.

There's a real opening in the market at the moment, and no-one is stepping forward.

All their devices are moving to one standard: USB-C. No iDevice devices has used a standard port, ever. Not to mention USB-C is thicker than Lightning, wasn't available at the time, is secured by Apple for their most important product, already has its own ecosystem, recently went through a port change, and they don't want just anyone accessing iOS, is totally fine.

 

[PhoneI]

Look at the new super thin hp laptops. Or the spectre series. They are very comparable to apple on quality and when I used to have hp, their support was stellar.

And ya know what's great about windows? If you don't like what 1 company is giving you, you can leave and try another. Obviously not so with mac

https://www.wired.com/2016/04/hp-spectre-13-sexiest-windows-laptop-can-imagine/

HA!!!! You just put HP and quality in the same sentence.

 

[Ghost31]

HA!!!! You just put HP and quality in the same sentence.

I've had a bunch and the few problems I've had, hp was great bout taking care of it. So...yeah? I mean I could go off what the Internet thinks of hp but I would rather use my own personal experiences to perceive reality with.

 

[gooseta]

Welp, got my Razer blade 14 yesterday, FHD and 512GB of storage + 10% student discount ($2000 inc. tax and 2 year MSFT warranty). Absolute bargain for it. The only issues really are the trackpad is not Apple quality and the screen is obviously not "retina", although it is IPS and matte (something Apple refuses to offer do for absolutely no reason). Keyboard is great, I'd say it's even better than the rMBP 2015 as the keys are a lot more stable and it has full RGB backlighting. Also the all black finish is extremely nice and overall it's very well built, good hinge, no keyboard flex... Yeah if it was the same price as the top of the line 15" mbp I'd take the mac any day but considering it's about 50% cheaper it's a no-brainer.. Just because I like Mac OS doesn't mean I should pay an arm and a leg for average hardware.