I'm not saying it's a bad idea - I'm not sure it's good, but I can't dismiss it. I'm just saying that Apple thinks what you just described is a bad idea. And I understand their logic - even if I don't agree with it (or do).
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Is Magic Mouse/Mice Support Likely for iPads?
- Thread starter Psyfuzz
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I'm not saying it's a bad idea - I'm not sure it's good, but I can't dismiss it. I'm just saying that Apple thinks what you just described is a bad idea. And I understand their logic - even if I don't agree with it (or do).
Which is something you can use with one hand while holding the iPad in another, or in your lap. It is also complimentary to touch and is intended to be used simultaneously with touch. A mouse is a replacement method to touch, not an addition.
But they (Apple) don't actually think it's a bad idea that should be disallowed - You edited out the part of my post about using a real keyboard or onscreen keyboard (while the real one is connected) - It is indeed allowed and so too could be the case w/ a mouse.
One of the reasons is that they view the keyboard as the addition to the touch system to be used alongside onscreen touch. The mouse is a replacement system. Again, it's not that I agree with that, it's just how I think their logic goes.
Speculation.
Apple is hard to figure out right now. The "no more BT Keyboard on ATV" thing is particularly odd since there's no good way to do the same thing anymore since Siri doesn't do dictation on the ATV.
Apple is evolving pencil to be a more precise finger alternative so it'll be easy to expand support to mouse. If iPad Prosumer is to be a productivity device it needs mouse support. There's no ifs or buts about it. Even Engadget pointed out this deficiency in their review.
http://www.engadget.com/2015/11/19/ipad-pro-review/
http://www.engadget.com/2015/11/19/ipad-pro-review/
Yes. I have used multiwindow on my Samsung GTab pro 8.4. There was no degradation of performance. It was what proved to me that it was useful on a tablet. It was well done, and although out of the box it limited that apps that could be used with multiwindow, by rooting it any app could be used.
So it's good in context when using a remote viewing application. That doesn't validate the need for it; rather, it just confirms that it's not necessary.
It's good in a variety of contexts - Have you tried it?
"necessary"? 3rd party game controllers aren't "necessary", but they sure make things better!
That's like saying headphones aren't "necessary" and are only good in the context of private listening. Just use the speakers! Headphones aren't "necessary" as they're only good in context, right?
For those who need to try it out for themselves, no argument no matter how well considered will be sufficient.
I think what Apple is wary of, is that if they enable mouse support, then some developers might end up writing apps in a way that you NEED a mouse to use an app. Then you'll have apps that can't be used while sitting with the iPad on a sofa.
External keyboard is different, because the functions of a keyboard can always be replicated by an on-screen keyboard. But mouse controls, I can imagine developers doing stuff with that in such a way that the mouse functions can't be easily replicated by touch input.
Yeah, I think you nailed it. Personally I believe the users will force Apple to support mice eventually (touching the screen is not a good ergonomic experience when you're using a device laptop style, which is the same point always brought up in response to the idea of a touchscreen MacBook). It'll be up to Apple to enforce a policy that all apps must be fully touch-functional, with mouse support as an addition and not a requirement. Similar to their policy on Apple TV game controllers.
I'm only here for the Pencil so I don't really care, but I wouldn't be able to use the iPP as a laptop replacement without a mouse/trackpad. Just basic things like moving a text cursor around are still irritating with touch (and even with the Pencil, though maybe less so). Most people who try the iPP thinking it'll be a laptop replacement are going to be irritated by this to some degree.
The issue for laptop-style users won't be accuracy so much as ergonomics. It just isn't a good experience to use a laptop and have to poke at the screen (even with a stylus) while you're working in a keyboard setup. A trackpad is always right by your hands and much quicker/more comfortable to interface with.
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A device driver would probably be possible to write to iOS. The other thing that would need to be written is a GUI that you can use a mouse with. Right now, you still need to press the home button to get to the home screen so we need something like a start button on screen. Then, we probably want a way to switch quickly between apps like....windows for the apps. As a tablet, these features would make it severely annoying to use. As a laptop, it would be fine. Moving the cursor in Pages or Numbers is actually not so bad IMO. I would rather have my tablets still be touch accessible while laptops have a GUI that are optimized for trackpad/mouse and keyboard.
Jailbreakers have shown that it's extremely easy to implement mouse support, so no issue there. iOS also has a software home button you can enable from the accessibility settings.
I would personally leave the UI alone entirely (keep it touch-centric) and simply allow a cursor to act as touch emulation for users who want it. No harm done to tablet users, and a big improvement for laptop-style users. I think the current multitasking UI is fine for this application (double click the software home button for the task list).
Ah, a good ol' compromise device. Exactly what Apple isn't looking to make (even though the iPad Pro is a compromise device).
I don't see how that makes the situation worse, though. It's already going to be a terrible laptop experience, and enabling a mouse cursor makes it better. There's nothing you can do to make a touch-only device a good laptop experience.
To be honest I find that term to be a bit face-palmy. Every device is a compromise. Laptops can't have desktop power or screen size. Desktops are too heavy to move around. Tablets (as in iPad-style tablets, not the SP) have no active cooling and extremely limited functionality. Smartphones are too small to do much of anything well, except being extremely portable. What device is not a compromise?
As I said, I'd NEVER use the iPP laptop style (I have a ... laptop for that) and see it entirely as a platform for the Pencil, but Apple obviously wants to sell it as a hybrid device so why not improve the experience?
Yeah. I went to the store to see the iPP, played around with the keyboard cover, looked at the on-screen software keyboard, and felt that if I'm going to use the iPP, I'd use it without a keyboard, as a touch-only device.
Actually, remember when the original iPad came out, Apple had a keyboard dock for it? I tried that for a while and decided it didn't work. The iPP keyboard cover is basically a much thinner version of that keyboard dock. I think most of the same usability issues still exist.
So basically, an iPad of whatever size is a bad laptop. Adding a mouse/trackpad makes it a little bit better, but it still wouldn't make it a good laptop. So do you add the mouse, or do you not add the mouse, and sort of passive-aggressively force people to use touch, so they hopefully get weaned off using a physical keyboard? I think that may be what Apple is trying to do? Just an idea...
LOL. That exactly IS the problem. iPad "Pro" should be able to handle that.
And wrong. Mouse input is just like touch. Remember those jailbreaked iPad 1? They would really just need a cursor on the screen. A click on the mouse/trackpad is a finger tap. Two finger tap is app overview/expose and three finger swipe down close an app. Two finger left and right swypes back and forth and so on.
No need to change one bit of iOS for that to happen. And it should have been possible by now. No sale for me.
I also believe that. But still gorilla arm and the touch keyboard takes up the whole screen even if you get used to it.
Don't have gorilla arms on the 9.7 iPads, because I hold them ln my lap with my hands, even when typing. Not sure if the iPad Pro can be used the same way, though. Interestingly enough, I find the iPad mini too small to type with the software keyboard. and yeah, the keyboard does take half the screen. I don't find that a problem while I'm just typing, but it does make the editing process awkward. One thing I'm wondering about the iPad Pro is whether the larger screen leaves enough text visible, even with half the screen taken up by the keyboard, that it makes the editing process more workable.
If not, I'll stick with a laptop to do work, and iPad for play. I think I'd find a hybrid device frustrating -- not a good enough laptop, and too big and heavy for a tablet. I think there will eventually be a device that will be a good laptop and a good tablet at the same time, but none are quite there yet.
I'm very interested on what you consider are compromises that are specific to the iPad Pro.