Is the HD4000 underpowered for retina screen?

[Muscle Master]

I'm an owner of a 13 inch retina, it's is my daily computer, I have experience no lag whatsoever. Streaming HD video from various sources does not strained the performance whatsoever.. Everything is fluid as owning a Cmbp

That being said, I would say the gpu is strained or running out of steam.. But more like its maxed out capability wise, I highly recommend if you need one now!!.. Buy one

 

[dusk007]

We have to compare 2012 MBA with HD4000 vs 2013 MBA with HD5000

A Historical Look at MacBook Air GPU Performance

No we don't because your statement was in response to some guy comparing the HD 5000 and the 13" rMBP.

I had a Haswell MBA (HD5000) with the i7 and 8GB of RAM. I returned it and bought a 13" rMBP with the i7 instead. So far, the HD4000 in the rMBP is outperforming the HD5000 in the MBA, especially on Starcraft 2.

Also Anandtech's benchmark don't really target the problem. I have a 330M on my 2010 15" and in Starcraft on a 4v4 map I get less than 10 fps. It does just fine with up to 40 or 50 fps with the settings (low/med) at the start of the game when there are like 6 units out each. 15 min down the picture changes a lot.
As you can even see in Anand tests is that even on the HD 4000 in the MBA is barely any slower as soon as the test is bit more strenous on the CPU. The 4400 is also barely any slower. The problem quite clearly is that in this low/medium setting cpu limitation is a bigger problem than GPU limitation. The GPU becomes the main issue once you hit med/high or ultra settings. If you can play those at all the cpu usually isn't the problem anymore but if you cannot the faster GPU doesn't help.
Synthetic benchmarks are also bad at this because simulating a scripted scene isn't quite the same thing and cpu load doesn't scale much in games. Turning down setting reduces GPU load but doesn't do much for CPU load.
The HD 5000 on that 22nm node is really a gimmick on the 15W CPUs IMO. It is for spec masturbation more than any real benefit. It is a big chip for little return.

 

[kittencounter]

I use many apps on my retina MBP everyday and all that I can tell is it's not a hardware issue. Somehow many "normal" apps have issues with normal animation for simple things like listview, slide-in and out for small part of the UI or a page with some text and images. Even many of the Apple-made apps have issues with laggy animation. Surprisingly there are also many apps that runs smooth with all the elements above or even with more complex UI and contents. This kind of issue did not changed or get solved since I bought the rMBP last year. Switch the Nvidia graphic card does not solve it either. Here are some small examples:

- Sparrow: absolutly smooth on Listview and email content view
<=> Apple Mail, Air Mail ...absolutly crap laggy animation

- Slide-in-out notification center: smooth and nice
<=> slide-in-out Reading list in Safari: laggy

- Preview: most of complex PDFs make scrolling laggy but all the PDFs saved with Preview are smooth

Issues for overall UI interactions on the OS seem to be completly gone. Apple did change something there.

After the long time using it I can tell you that it wont kill you. The machine is too impressive and awesome to use so ..Maybe they will fix those stuffs on Mavericks and announce it as awsome magic new features or even make it exclusive on new machines D I would do it if I were them)

 

[falconeight]

Hope that Apple does not look at the issue just like you did or we would be screwed.

The only people it's an issue for is a handful on this forum. It's just as bad as the person complaining about a dead pixel or a 1/8 of a millimeter piece missing from a inside corner of his MBA.

 

[dastinger]

The only people it's an issue for is a handful on this forum. It's just as bad as the person complaining about a dead pixel or a 1/8 of a millimeter piece missing from a inside corner of his MBA.

Have you tried doing what I said? Didn't it lag? If it did, should it lag? Mainly on an Apple app? Can you continue to say that there is no lag?

 

[thejadedmonkey]

Don't say that it doesn't lag. It does lag. I would be more upset if I visited websites or used apps that lag more than others but the lag IS there.

For the ones that say there is no lag, open the Contacts app, reduce the window size to a small one and then hit the zoom button (green one). Now come back here and say there is no lag.

It does that on a MBA too though. That to me looks like poor coding, not a hardware issue.

 

[falconeight]

Have you tried doing what I said? Didn't it lag? If it did, should it lag? Mainly on an Apple app? Can you continue to say that there is no lag?

Its a stupid argument. If certain software stutters but more powerful ram/processor power hungry programs don't then its a software issue with that program and not the hardware. Right now the MBA has flicker with photoshop and it will be fixed when someone fixes the software. If I can have 10 windows open running different programs and it still be smooth then your argument is baseless and nothing more than trolling.

 

[jcpb]

Don't say that it doesn't lag. It does lag. I would be more upset if I visited websites or used apps that lag more than others but the lag IS there.

For the ones that say there is no lag, open the Contacts app, reduce the window size to a small one and then hit the zoom button (green one). Now come back here and say there is no lag.

There is an infinite number of configurations and settings you can do to make even a Tianhe supercomputer cluster lag, and then use that one isolated case to say why it sucks because it lags.

I get more lag on my 4S than I do with my MBPR. What MBPR lag? There isn't any.

 

[sofianito]

The $1000000 question is: cMBP vs rMBP with the same CPU, SSD, RAM configuration. Which one would lag more often?...

I didn't test them, but my gut tells me rMBP...

 

[falconeight]

The $1000000 question is: cMBP vs rMBP with the same CPU, SSD, RAM configuration. Which one would lag more often?...

I didn't test them, but my gut tells me rMBP...

I like the cMBP but it has a HDD and that alone makes it extremely slow compared to the rMBP.

 

[sofianito]

I like the cMBP but it has a HDD and that alone makes it extremely slow compared to the rMBP.

Your comment is off-topic. Please, reread again my post: Same IB CPU, RAM, SSD, and GPUs. Put simply: rMBP 2.6Ghz, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD vs cMBP 2.6Ghz, 16GB RAM, 512GB Samsung SSD (same model as rMBP).

 

[falconeight]

Your comment is off-topic. Please, reread again my post: Same IB CPU, RAM, SSD, and GPUs. Put simply: rMBP 2.6Ghz, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD vs cMBP 2.6Ghz, 16GB RAM, 512GB Samsung SSD (same model as rMBP).

My reply is off topic and you use the same subject. How old are you? The cMBP with those specs is very expensive and impossible with the 13 rMBP.

 

[bill-p]

The $1000000 question is: cMBP vs rMBP with the same CPU, SSD, RAM configuration. Which one would lag more often?...

I didn't test them, but my gut tells me rMBP...

Under 10.9, they're equally laggy.

 

[dastinger]

It does that on a MBA too though. That to me looks like poor coding, not a hardware issue.

Its a stupid argument. If certain software stutters but more powerful ram/processor power hungry programs don't then its a software issue with that program and not the hardware. Right now the MBA has flicker with photoshop and it will be fixed when someone fixes the software. If I can have 10 windows open running different programs and it still be smooth then your argument is baseless and nothing more than trolling.

There is an infinite number of configurations and settings you can do to make even a Tianhe supercomputer cluster lag, and then use that one isolated case to say why it sucks because it lags.

I get more lag on my 4S than I do with my MBPR. What MBPR lag? There isn't any.

So, we moved from arguing if there is any lag on the rMBP to acknowledging that there is lag but it's software related.

I never ever said it was hardware or wanted to discuss that but, there IS lag. Thank you for agreeing with me

 

[sofianito]

I repeated my post putting an example cuz I knew you are either a stubborn and/or a smart ass with no arguments. We are not talking about price, we are talking about lag and comparing similar configurations...

----------

Under 10.9, they're equally laggy.

Hold on 10.9 Developer Preview 2 is buggy. We can't draw a conclusion until we see a GM. Did you test it with Lion and ML?

 

[bill-p]

Hold on 10.9 Developer Preview 2 is buggy. We can't draw a conclusion until we see a GM. Did you test it with Lion and ML?

Note: I have one rMBP that's for my own personal use, and I have access to one 2012 cMBP 15" and a 2010 cMBP 17" that are my colleagues'. Henceforth, whenever I write "cMBP", that means it's the 15" 2012 model. And if I wanna refer to the 17", I'd just write "cMBP 17".

In Lion, rMBP is significantly worse than cMBP. But it's about equal to cMBP 17. cMBP 17 is significantly worse than when it was in Snow Leopard.

In Mountain Lion, rMBP is closer to cMBP, and it's actually better than cMBP 17.

In 10.9 DP2, rMBP is exactly the same as cMBP performance-wise, and is way ahead of cMBP 17, even though cMBP 17 also sees a boost that makes it about equal to rMBP in Mountain Lion.

Bugs in 10.9 DP2 be damned. They just cause crashes and oddities. They don't and shouldn't affect interface performance.

Seriously, 10.9 is a lot smoother than Mountain Lion in pretty much everything. Granted, I'll give you that scaled resolutions on rMBP are still not up to par, but "Best For Retina" is significantly smoother.

rMBP only "lags" if you compare it to the same generation hardware on cMBP, but when you compare it to another Mac that's made before 2011, it's still a huge leap in performance and smoothness.

 

[falconeight]

So, we moved from arguing if there is any lag on the rMBP to acknowledging that there is lag but it's software related.

I never ever said it was hardware or wanted to discuss that but, there IS lag. Thank you for agreeing with me

No we are saying that programs or apps lag.....on every machine in this world. There is bad software or software that doesn't perform as good as others. If I can play a 3d game on say a rMBP or just a MBP and that game plays flawless and games are process/ram intense, but then minimizing the the reminder app(which uses basically nothing and would run on a pc from 1993)then its a laggy terrible performing piece of tech. Come on guy nobody here is stupid or would accept that as a hardware problem.

 

[akdj]

Every reliable review of the 13" rMBP have clearly pointed out that intel 4000 is not capable enough and people should avoid getting it.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/11/1/3585082/13-inch-macbook-pro-with-retina-display-review

"Strained performance"

Wait till the Haswell chips with intel 5000 are in, I plan to make my upgrade from my 2012 mba too then.

You're basing your 'wisdom' on rMBP lag from The Verge? And on older version of OSx to boot? Huh?

Lag or not, the HD4000 is a crappy graphics solution to have by itself for anything other than basic web surfing and office work. If you don't run any graphically intensive software its probably going to be fine especially when mavricks is released. But if you use it for anything "pro" related like editing/animation studio software its going to disappoint. Apple chose to break the market with the retina displaysrather than wait for gpu that was capable of pushing that screen with pro apps.

You're wrong..,but that's cool. You've obviously not owned or used an rMBP. Nor would anyone running an animation studio or professional editor choose to use a laptop, regardless of brand name, with an Intel4000 as its only GPU. That just doesn't make sense. With the 15", one always has the 650m...which works extremely well with Adobe's creative suite...even allowing workflow offload to the GPU.

On a MBA, some video editing can be done. As can photo manipulation. We aren't talking about dull fledged Pixar animation on an Intel 4000/5000 or even next year's 6xxx. These machines are made for the 99%'ers

So, we moved from arguing if there is any lag on the rMBP to acknowledging that there is lag but it's software related.

I never ever said it was hardware or wanted to discuss that but, there IS lag. Thank you for agreeing with me

It doesn't lag. If you don't own one, haven't used one as those of us that do everyday...you shouldn't be posting in this thread. If you're interested in 'lag' on HiDPI monitors, look no further than Windows 8 and the Surface pro...with any software other than native Windows apps. Software companies are working thier collective asses off to being their software up to date for high resolution displays. Apple is doing everything they can...and working hand in hand with Intel to deliver an integrated, low power, all day solution to the masses. They've done well. IF there was this 'lag' some of you are talking about across the board, mayhem would ensue....Apple's discussion board would have threads three miles long discussing it...but instead, we've got MBAs able to play, albeit at medium settings...triple A games.
There are poorly coded sites...sites that'll lag on the fastest custom built systems with high end graphics cards. It's irrelevant. It's not Apple's fault. It's on the developers. I've got a 2011 MBA that runs a TB display at 2560x1440 just fine. That's an Intel 3000!

Buy one. Use one. You'll be blown away. It's hard to believe this argument still exists a year later and after countless computer nerds like myself of 25 years buying gear....exclaiming its hands down the best piece of computing gear I've ever purchased. That seems to be the general consensus amongst true owners of the machines.

J

 

[newdeal]

Yes the retina pro has lag its a fact. It is very little and certainly doesnt irritate the user, in fact i didnt notice it at first however i own a 13" cmbp and a 15"rmbp and when i got back and forth i can see scrolling is a little smoother in the cmbp. If i sidnt have the cmbp right beside it I wouldnt notice. The rmbp acts the same no matter what gpu is on, i can plug in an external display and run both at the same time and discrete is always on with an external but the lag doesnt change then either. Its not a gpu issue its mountain lion. Hence why in the wwdc keynote they mentioned how the ui is now gpu accelerated and why mavericks therefore solves the issue

 

[munakib]

You're basing your 'wisdom' on rMBP lag from The Verge? And on older version of OSx to boot? Huh?
J

I am not sure if you asking me to base my wisdom between a random forum user claiming 25yr of hardware experience (as yourself) or a trusted tech news source.

You also lost some credibility with the line, "older version of OSx" - Does everyone have Maverick on their laptops already? oh I must have missed the update, lemme check the Mac Store right now.

FYI, I have used one and I did notice that it starts to lag once multiple websites are loaded, though I do agree, just go to the nearest apple store and test it yourself.

 

[sofianito]

Could someone test the rMBP in clamshell mode and verify if the lag diminishes? There should be a difference since OS X is smart enough to know it doesn't have to push 4M pixels to external display as it has to when built-in display is used. I am also curious to see what happens in dual display mode.

 

[falconeight]

I am not sure if you asking me to base my wisdom between a random forum user claiming 25yr of hardware experience (as yourself) or a trusted tech news source.

You also lost some credibility with the line, "older version of OSx" - Does everyone have Maverick on their laptops already? oh I must have missed the update, lemme check the Mac Store right now.

FYI, I have used one and I did notice that it starts to lag once multiple websites are loaded, though I do agree, just go to the nearest apple store and test it yourself.

The verge is a blog not a trusted news source.

 

[akdj]

I am not sure if you asking me to base my wisdom between a random forum user claiming 25yr of hardware experience (as yourself) or a trusted tech news source.

You also lost some credibility with the line, "older version of OSx" - Does everyone have Maverick on their laptops already? oh I must have missed the update, lemme check the Mac Store right now.

FYI, I have used one and I did notice that it starts to lag once multiple websites are loaded, though I do agree, just go to the nearest apple store and test it yourself.

A. The verge is NOT a trusted website
B. Their review (15") was based on Lion. Not ML
C. Playing with one at an apple store does not make you qualified to offer an opinion.

Newdeal...I own a pair of 17" 2011 MBPs. Both with SSDs. Both with 16GB RAM (identically configured essentially to the rMBP). I'm not sure where you're seeing the lag in comparison...as I, too have older classic models to compare it to. Indeed, crappy coded sites (The Verge being one)....I can get any computer to lag when scrolling extremely fast, in a fashion no one would actually use in practice.

Will Mavericks bring an even 'better' UI experience? Most likely. But IMHO, its not up to Apple to fix any third party developer's HiDPi/scaling issues. They can only do so much.

J

 

[munakib]

The verge is a blog not a trusted news source.

Thanks falcon, I completely forgot that. You da boss.

----------

A. Sorry, its actually trusted, but it might not be to you.
B. Its the 13" Retina MBP (http://www.theverge.com/2012/11/1/3585082/13-inch-macbook-pro-with-retina-display-review) running Mountain Lion!
C. Using it at an Apple Store qualifies me to provide an opinion based on my USAGE of the device.

D. You lost your credibility by ignoring all the above information.

A. The verge is NOT a trusted website
B. Their review (15") was based on Lion. Not ML
C. Playing with one at an apple store does not make you qualified to offer an opinion.

Newdeal...I own a pair of 17" 2011 MBPs. Both with SSDs. Both with 16GB RAM (identically configured essentially to the rMBP). I'm not sure where you're seeing the lag in comparison...as I, too have older classic models to compare it to. Indeed, crappy coded sites (The Verge being one)....I can get any computer to lag when scrolling extremely fast, in a fashion no one would actually use in practice.

Will Mavericks bring an even 'better' UI experience? Most likely. But IMHO, its not up to Apple to fix any third party developer's HiDPi/scaling issues. They can only do so much.

J

 

[tmiw]

B. Its the 13" Retina MBP (http://www.theverge.com/2012/11/1/3585082/13-inch-macbook-pro-with-retina-display-review) running Mountain Lion!

Wait, The Verge gave below a 9.0 to an Apple product? Completely unexpected.