Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
I doubt you'll see big shifts in the Mac Pro's price... The target audience is the one who doesn't quip on the price...everyone else mostly buys laptops - which is why the mac mini and imac are basically laptops - reuse of lines to keep costs down.

I would agree if the economy was stable but those that are targeted by Apple with the Mac Pro sales are big businesses and small businesses which are losing HUGE right now.

Economy is terrible and it will continue to get even worse for the next few years before we get into another great depression.

U6 unemployment figures with birth/death ratio stripped were looking at 20.5% unemployment rate right now. Projected unemployment rate is at around 30% by next year.

But of course government sugar coated its public statement by using the U3 with birth/date ratio implemented showing 9.5% unemployment rate :rolleyes:
 
I doubt you'll see big shifts in the Mac Pro's price... The target audience is the one who doesn't quip on the price...everyone else mostly buys laptops - which is why the mac mini and imac are basically laptops - reuse of lines to keep costs down.

Agreed. You and I are on the same page on a lot of this discussion. Cheers! :)
 
You don't need Xeon for ECC. You can use Phenom II.

And Opteron boards, Shanghai and Istambul are cheap for 2-way.
 
I would agree if the economy was stable but those that are targeted by Apple with the Mac Pro sales are big businesses and small businesses which are losing HUGE right now.

Economy is terrible and it will continue to get even worse for the next few years before we get into another great depression.


Don't you think they factored this into their projections? Of course they did! That's partly why the price jumped so much this year. With the downturn in the economy and their largest customers delaying purchasing decisions, in my mind they had no choice but to increase the price to keep the product line profitable. Due to the elastic nature of this product's price, they can get away with it. Those who still need to buy will do so.
 
Since the PC makers appropriated it.

The few scummy ones that did. Most don't. Doing so is too close to misrepresentation and Americans just love to sue each other. :D

A workstation is a high-end microcomputer designed for technical or scientific applications. Intended primarily to be used by one person at a time, they are commonly connected to a local area network and run multi-user operating systems. The term workstation has also been used to refer to a mainframe computer terminal or a PC connected to a network.

Historically, workstations had offered higher performance than personal computers, especially with respect to CPU and graphics, memory capacity and multitasking cability. They are optimized for the visualization and manipulation of different types of complex data such as 3D mechanical design, engineering simulation (e.g. computational fluid dynamics), animation and rendering of images, and mathematical plots. Consoles consist of a high resolution display, a keyboard and a mouse at a minimum, but also offer multiple displays, graphics tablets, 3D mice (devices for manipulating and navigating 3D objects and scenes), etc. Workstations are the first segment of the computer market to present advanced accessories and collaboration tools.

Workstation class PCs
A significant segment of the desktop market are computers expected to perform as workstations, but using PC operating systems and components. PC component manufacturers will often segment their product line, and market premium components which are functionally similar to the cheaper "consumer" models but feature a higher level of robustness and/or performance. Notable examples of this are the AMD Opteron, Intel Xeon processors, and the ATI FireGL and Nvidia Quadro graphics processors.

A workstation class PC may have some of the following features:
  • support for ECC memory
  • a larger number of memory sockets which use registered (buffered) modules
  • multiple processors
  • multiple displays
  • run a "business" or "professional" operating system version
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workstation
 
Don't you think they factored this into their projections? Of course they did! That's partly why the price jumped so much this year. With the downturn in the economy and their largest customers delaying purchasing decisions, in my mind they had no choice but to increase the price to keep the product line profitable.

But if you look at the xeon parts itself (priced directly from intel), Apple is making a KILLING by way overpricing the Mac Pros from the beginning and especially currently since its been out for a while now.

Right now buying a Mac Pro or a computer is the last thing on my mind as I'm getting ready for some very VERY bad economic times and possibly another great depression/hyperinflation this time. Buying up gold, silver, food, water filter, guns/ammo before making a Mac Pro purchase before it becomes unaffordable at all in the next year or so.

The nations from B.R.I.C. has already refused to use the dollar as a reserve currency, the Feds are printing up/punching in endless amounts of fiat paper currency and everyday the world looks at our dollar like its toilet paper.

Our GDP is 70% of consumption, simply meaning our economy imports way more than it exports and now each nations are not wanting to take our dollars for their cheap goods, ie China.

I think were going to see very high interest rates in home mortgages with continuing depreciating home prices. Put that and especially with the cap and trade tax that just passed, were looking at higher energy prices, .77 on top of every gallon of gas (not to mention gas prices will go up by the end of this year to high 150's or possibly 200 dollar a barrel by next year).

As for the government factoring into their U3 unemployment %, they dont. Strange how when Bush was in office and the stimulus packages of Clinton has propped up Bushs 8 year term along with his stimulus (still both not nearly as much as how much Obama is spending now and their getting ready for a 2nd stimulus package already talks about it in Congress), they used the U6.

Now the government is using the U3 and having the talking heads of CNBC, Fox news, CNN telling the masses of sheeple that everything is ok and that were out of the recession in the next few months and were seeing green shoots? Thats why I dont trust the main stream media because all the talking heads gets a pay check and guess who writes their check? Big corporations of course.

U3 doesnt count the people that already gave up on looking for a job long ago, people that dont get benefits anymore either, people that used to make 100,000 a year with an engineering degree thats working at mcdonalds or dish network at $10 an hour temporary still looking for a permanent job, birth/death ratio implemented.
 
But if you look at the xeon parts itself, Apple is making a KILLING by way overpricing the Mac Pros from the beginning and especially currently since its been out for a while now.

Right now buying a Mac Pro or a computer is the last thing on my mind as I'm getting ready for some very VERY bad economic times and possibly another great depression/hyperinflation this time. Buying up gold, silver, food, water filter, guns/ammo before making a Mac Pro purchase before it becomes unaffordable at all in the next year or so.

The nations from B.R.I.C. has already refused to use the dollar as a reserve currency, the Feds are printing up/punching in endless amounts of fiat paper currency and everyday the world looks at our dollar like its toilet paper.

Our GDP is 70% of consumption, simply meaning our economy imports way more than it exports and now each nations are not wanting to take our dollars for their cheap goods, ie China.

I think were going to see very high interest rates in home mortgages with continuing depreciating home prices. Put that and especially with the cap and trade tax that just passed, were looking at higher energy prices, .77 on top of every gallon of gas (not to mention gas prices will go up by the end of this year to high 150's or possibly 200 dollar a barrel by next year).

It's a vicious cycle... perpetuated by fear. The economy will turn around when the average US consumer isn't afraid to spend their paycheck on a computer. :p
 
It's a vicious cycle... perpetuated by fear. The economy will turn around when the average US consumer isn't afraid to spend their paycheck on a computer. :p

I think that type of thinking is wrong and exactly why were in this depression (basically been pushing it back while having a snow ball effect over the decades, pretty much when nixon in 71 got us out of the gold standard and got the printing presses running).

I also think confidence charts means nothing in the real world. How does confidence help an economy when its based off a highly flawed system to begin with? Such as the keynesian economics.

That's what I think is messed up. The more the consumer spends of the money that they dont already have (credit cards) means that our fake GDP rises since its based on 70% of consumption (see the correlation there?). So it gives the illusion that our economy is recovering, but not this time as the debt is WAY too high in the trillions now. Before 30 years ago we were printing millions of dollars then in the 90's to Bush's era we've been printing billions and now were dealing with Trillions!

Also the stock market such as the nasdaq, dow jones, comex, forex is highly manipulated by goldman sachs and its revolving door with washington/feds generally.

I think that Keynesian economics is generally faulty from the beginning. Putting interest rates near 0% or extremely low so it teases the public to borrow/spend more (credit card again) and when credit contracts the Feds print money to correct the economy? Which they call quantitative easing.

That is messed up. I follow the Austrian economics where savings and producing and exporting goods should be higher in the ratio than importing.

70% consumption and 30% GDP basically shows that the United States imports 70% of its products/goods and exports 30%. So our real GDP is about 30% of our fake GDP!! Thats crazy.

I'm into history and every history book you read about any civilization over the 6000+ years that has printed money away from gold/silver standard it always collapsed. Generally the average paper money lasts about 72 years before a collapse and in the United States case is very rare because its in a different situation which is a world reserve currency. Just about everyone hoards our money. So its kind of in a weird/awkward situation but I think it'll be corrected by all the other nations slowly moving away from the dollar and into gold/silver as the reserve or their basket of currencies as the new reserve minus the dollar.

Many top economists such as Marc Faber, Jim Rogers saids that their 100% sure that the United States will see hyperinflation in 5-10 years! And I believe it.

G8 summit already called for a new reserve currency and I wouldnt be surprised if China, Russia, India, South Korea, Brazil, Japan is all dumping their U.S. bonds behind everyones backs keeping quiet.

One interesting thing on the side (you may be skeptic about it as I am 50/50 on it but rather entertaining) is that the guy who runs the webbot project expects to see a problem in the us dollar around oct-nov of this year and runs through nov. of next year before we hit hyperinflation.

But you are correct in your statement that the citizens are afraid of spending their money right now. That's why were going to see stagflation first than anything where an economy doesnt grow anymore and inflation starts to set in.

Alot of Americans right now are hoarding their us dollars and either saving it (30% up) since 3 years ago which was -6% lol, or their paying off their mortgages/credit card debts and just not spending any money right now (cash or swiping credit cards).

And its just the beginning of the death of the dollar. Just take a look at the new reserve currency prototype that Medvedev just revealed a few days ago.

medvedev_1441271c.jpg


0a0b5e96f2eb.jpg
 
Hmmm... isn't this funny :) :

Intended primarily to be used by one person at a time <snip> and run multi-user operating systems.

Anyhow, cube, the term workstation is subjective based on needs. A CAD workstation would differ entirely from a DBA workstation. Yet, they are both workstations.

I read workstation to mean a system on the higher end of the performance spectrum with respect to average computer systems for a given task. That may mean a different architecture, or it may not, if the software required only runs on x86 architecture.
 
The whole context of the thread is skewed. How can it be over priced if there is no comparison?

Love the car analogy... I own a vw and a bmw. They are very similar cars, except with your eyes closed you can feel the difference in the cars. Does this justify 3 times the cost? No, but the bmw is a nicer car.

The same is true of the mac pro. Trying to compare any other system to the mac pro is like comparing a bmw to a vw. Lots of people want to drive a bmw but can only justify a vw.

The only reason for a thread like this is one of two things. A) trolling B) envy
 
The whole context of the thread is skewed. How can it be over priced if there is no comparison?

Love the car analogy... I own a vw and a bmw. They are very similar cars, except with your eyes closed you can feel the difference in the cars. Does this justify 3 times the cost? No, but the bmw is a nicer car.

The same is true of the mac pro. Trying to compare any other system to the mac pro is like comparing a bmw to a vw. Lots of people want to drive a bmw but can only justify a vw.

The only reason for a thread like this is one of two things. A) trolling B) envy

My view of the overpriced Mac Pros is just simply comparing last generation to this generation.

2.8GHz 8 core (base of 8 core model) was $2799 but the new base 8 core model (2.26GHz) is $3299. I'd say the price jumped up about $500.

A) trolling

B) envy

In my opinion an answer such as that is being defensive about others stating that its overpriced to reassuring themselves that their Mac Pro isnt overpriced. :D
 
I have enough cash to just go down and buy a 2.26GHz 8 core or let alone a 2.93GHz 8 core if I wanted but it doesnt mean that the price is right for me to do that.

I could just go and buy the 2.26GHz right away and let the overpaid guilt slowly set in. But I refuse to do that.

Its kind of like, would you pay $20 for a big mac? Nope I sure wouldnt.
 
In my opinion an answer such as that is being defensive about others stating that its overpriced to reassuring themselves that their Mac Pro isnt overpriced. :D

Overpriced compared to what though?

Is it expensive?... yes! Is it overpriced?... maybe! Is it worth it?... to me it is. To you it's not.
 
Overpriced compared to what though?

Is it expensive?... yes! Is it overpriced?... maybe! Is it worth it?... to me it is. To you it's not.

I'm not making the argument if its worth it to anyone but i'm just comparing current models to its previous generation models. Base 8 core vs. Base 8 core. $500 up in price. Just a fact thats all.
 
I have enough cash to just go down and buy a 2.26GHz 8 core or let alone a 2.93GHz 8 core if I wanted but it doesnt mean that the price is right for me to do that.

I could just go and buy the 2.26GHz right away and let the overpaid guilt slowly set in. But I refuse to do that.

Its kind of like, would you pay $20 for a big mac? Nope I sure wouldnt.

Did you see my post at the end of page 6 on getting a 20% discount?
 
Did you see my post at the end of page 6 on getting a 20% discount?

I know about the student developers discount but if anything if Apple had priced it at $2799 (I could still use a student developers discount on top of the cheaper price to get even more off).

Wow if the 2.26GHz 8 core Mac Pro was priced at $2799 with 20% (Student developers discount) off it would be priced at $2239! That would be awesome.

Then that initial savings difference from the $3299 (20%) off of $2639-$2239= difference of $400 could be used to buy extra HDD and RAM.

So $2639 total would get you a 2.26GHz 8 core, 1TB hdd and 12 or 16GB of RAM
 
Do you have a link to a list of the parts that you used - or that are known to be very compatible?


I built a i7 920 system based on a Gigabyte x58 motherboard, It has 6gb of 1600 DDR3 ram (24gb max), NVIDIA GTS 250, and a pile of drives all in a Cooler Master Cosmos 1000 case. I installed a retail version of 10.5.7 (updated from Apple's servers) and I LOVE the stability and performance!

I am an Apple fan, I have a 2007 24" iMac, my wife has a brand new mini and we share a MBP. I really wanted a MP but couldn't justify the $$ so I built one that meets my needs. I also put 10.5.7 on a Dell mini9 because Apple doesn't have a netbook. And for the record, I bought the Leo family pack.

I think one thing people are forgetting when they compare the cost of an Apple machine is OS X. You are also paying for the operating system and I don't think the retail cost of the boxed version of OS X is an accurate way to estimate the cost. I think you need to factor in somewhere in the neighborhood of $300 - $600 of the purchase price of a Mac is to pay for OS X.

OS X is cheap (too cheap) when you buy it off the shelf. I would have paid a lot more for it than I did for my build.
 
No offense Tess but I think you need to slow down and read what you write (and also what you're replying to).

Your response to my post made no sense.

Compare the dual socket Mac Pro to the Dell T7500 - similar pricing (although Dell will give you discounts if you call)

Compare the single socket Mac Pro to the Dell T3500 - the dell is $1,300 cheaper, making the Apple machine overpriced, ESPECIALLY considering that it has a crippled ram config (only 4 dimms, vs 6 on the dell).

There are a number of reasons that people would opt for a machine like the T3500 over a $800-1000 i7 box. One is expandability - the precision workstation case allows easy installation of 4 3.5" sata drives, as well as a couple optical drives, and lots of pcie slots. For some people, that plus the advanced memory features (not just ECC, but things like mirroring, etc) are worth the extra $5-600. The precision mobos also have a higher-end LSI raid chipset integrated rather than the basic intel raid, among some other differences.

i7: $800-1000
T3500 (xeon 3520): $1,501
Mac Pro (xeon 3520): $2,748
Mac Pro (xeon 5500s): $3,200+
T7500 (xeon 5500s): $3,100+

I stand by my original statement. The dual socket Mac Pro is not overpriced compared to its peers (Intel's cpus ARE overpriced though lol!). The single socket mac pro is way overpriced and is a complete and utter ripoff.
 
Compare the dual socket Mac Pro to the Dell T7500 - similar pricing (although Dell will give you discounts if you call)

Compare the single socket Mac Pro to the Dell T3500 - the dell is $1,300 cheaper, making the Apple machine overpriced, ESPECIALLY considering that it has a crippled ram config (only 4 dimms, vs 6 on the dell).

I think you made an error. I did a T3500 config as close to a Quad Mac Pro and I got $2080 based on a 2.66Ghz Xeon.

I've tried to upload it. Anyone interested see if I went wrong somewhere.
 

Attachments

  • http___configure.us.dell.com_dellstore_print_summary_details_po.pdf
    23.3 KB · Views: 372
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.