Is the (Mid 2012) the last rev of the cMBP?

[Yebubbleman]

Somehow discrete HDMI + two discrete TB ports seems more flexible than fixed ethernet and FW ports.
More than swappable RAM even so. FLEXIBLE. Not upgradeable.

I'll agree with you on the discrete HDMI bit, but will disagree everywhere else. Making me pay for an adapter isn't as flexible as simply having that functionality built-in. Similarly, having the ability to upgrade your machine, is inherent flexibility. You could buy a base model 13" cMBP and if you later want to give it 8GB of RAM, you can. Yes, that is upgradability, but it's also flexibility. Though I suppose the point is somewhat moot given that the 13" cMBP (officially) maxes out at the standard RAM size of the 13" rMBP. Still though, if I only want to initially pay for 4GB of RAM and then later bump to 8GB of RAM, that upgradability is inherently also flexibility. Same thing goes for the proprietary nature of the rMBP's drives versus the cMBP's drives.

No, Apple have confirmed that OS X will follow the same release cycle as iOS (i.e yearly). Given that 10.9 has already started showing up in webserver logs this also supports this.

Source, please?

 

[alohamade]

I'll agree with you on the discrete HDMI bit, but will disagree everywhere else. Making me pay for an adapter isn't as flexible as simply having that functionality built-in. Similarly, having the ability to upgrade your machine, is inherent flexibility. You could buy a base model 13" cMBP and if you later want to give it 8GB of RAM, you can. Yes, that is upgradability, but it's also flexibility. Though I suppose the point is somewhat moot given that the 13" cMBP (officially) maxes out at the standard RAM size of the 13" rMBP. Still though, if I only want to initially pay for 4GB of RAM and then later bump to 8GB of RAM, that upgradability is inherently also flexibility. Same thing goes for the proprietary nature of the rMBP's drives versus the cMBP's drives.



Source, please?

I agree on the idea that inherent flexibility is more than simply having an adapter I have to pay for and native HDMI (although, native HDMI is something I wish was standard a very long time ago). Flexibility is truly being able to say after a few years or so that "Well, my battery only holds a 85% charge, so I'm going to buy a new battery and put it in for relatively cheap". Or, wanting to put new life into your machine and buying newer, faster RAM for cheap or buying the latest SSD. That's what makes the cMBP so great, even if the rMBPs are now cutting edge technology. It's a great time to be an Apple user because a lot of the technology is finally being figured out, but the thing is I know for certain I'm going to miss the legacy design because of just how easy it is to upgrade and replace everything as opposed to paying a premium for repair services you can easily do yourself. On that last point, the cMBP does indeed max out officially at 8GB, but hey, 16GB works just fine in this machine, and for cheaper!

Also, I totally was not aware of this news, but yes, OS X seems to be moving to a yearly upgrade cycle.

 

[Poisonivy326]

What rubbish.

The "average" consumer checks email, uses their browser, chats online, reads office docs and pdfs, listens to music, watches movies, TV shows and other media. 4GB of RAM is more than adequate to do that and if they need more space, the "average" consumer is also aware of external drives.

It's not rubbish. I currently have five tabs of chrome open, Microsoft Word, Microsoft Powerpoint, and itunes. My memory use is over 4 GB already. Sorry, but 4 GB is not enough if you want to do actual work on your computer.

The next generation of Airs NEED to have 8 GB of RAM as their starting point IMO if Apple is to drop the cMBP line.

I realize the Air is a very popular computer model but as of now the baseline models are not enough to be anyone's main computer except for maybe the lightest users. In which case they might just need an ipad.

 

[SlCKB0Y]

It's not rubbish. I currently have five tabs of chrome open, Microsoft Word, Microsoft Powerpoint, and itunes. My memory use is over 4 GB already. Sorry, but 4 GB is not enough if you want to do actual work on your computer.

Your computer is using more than 4GB of memory for those things because it has more than 4GB of memory.

I've just loaded the same thing on my MBA with 2GB and it's using less than 1.6GB. Those same apps on my 16GB MBP are using about 7GB.

It's caching as much as possible because the RAM is there.

 

[Ploki]

I'll agree with you on the discrete HDMI bit, but will disagree everywhere else. Making me pay for an adapter isn't as flexible as simply having that functionality built-in. Similarly, having the ability to upgrade your machine, is inherent flexibility. You could buy a base model 13" cMBP and if you later want to give it 8GB of RAM, you can. Yes, that is upgradability, but it's also flexibility. Though I suppose the point is somewhat moot given that the 13" cMBP (officially) maxes out at the standard RAM size of the 13" rMBP. Still though, if I only want to initially pay for 4GB of RAM and then later bump to 8GB of RAM, that upgradability is inherently also flexibility. Same thing goes for the proprietary nature of the rMBP's drives versus the cMBP's drives.

Still, you have one TB port, which is usually hogged by a display, usually without a daisy-chaining option. That leaves you with USB3.0 for fast external connectivity. External flexibility is limited by FW800 (which is becoming obsolete), by ethernet which you may or may not need most of the time - the fact is you can change that port into anything with an adapter. That means in 1 year when FW800 becomes dead, you will be stuck with a FW800 port nobody will care about. On the other hand with the retina you'll tuck the adapter away and get the new thing.

I agree on the idea that inherent flexibility is more than simply having an adapter I have to pay for and native HDMI (although, native HDMI is something I wish was standard a very long time ago). Flexibility is truly being able to say after a few years or so that "Well, my battery only holds a 85% charge, so I'm going to buy a new battery and put it in for relatively cheap". Or, wanting to put new life into your machine and buying newer, faster RAM for cheap or buying the latest SSD. That's what makes the cMBP so great, even if the rMBPs are now cutting edge technology. It's a great time to be an Apple user because a lot of the technology is finally being figured out, but the thing is I know for certain I'm going to miss the legacy design because of just how easy it is to upgrade and replace everything as opposed to paying a premium for repair services you can easily do yourself. On that last point, the cMBP does indeed max out officially at 8GB, but hey, 16GB works just fine in this machine, and for cheaper! [/URL]

You have to pay for an adapter if you need it.
You could say (with the same weight!) that its better to have HDMI,VGA,DVI,DP,MINIDP and perhaps even S-video built-in to the side of the computer.
No apple laptop at the moment has a cheap battery solution. Admittedly rMBP 15" by far WORSE than anything. The whole glue thing is just appalling...

Buying the latest SSD doesn't give you anything at this point, because the current SSDs are already saturating the bus bandwidth, meaning, you will need to upgrade sooner or later if you wish the latest SSD.

I'm not going to post the numbers again, but ghz/gb by ghz/gb performance, retina is actually cheaper. (Getting upgrade parts from newegg)

On the other hand, TB has 10GBIT throughput, x2. You'll be able to connect whatever new interface for SSDs will be developed with that. twice.

Dual TB ports with a discrete graphic-out is flexibility on the port-side. It's like having PCI-Express for laptops.
Having dying standards built-in is not flexible at all. It's inflexible and archaic. I do use FW800 and I do use Ethernet RIGHT NOW (My retina isn't arriving till thursday), and I did order the FW800 adapter. Still, I'm glad to know I am able ditch it in favor of whatever comes next.

----------

Your computer is using more than 4GB of memory for those things because it has more than 4GB of memory.

I've just loaded the same thing on my MBA with 2GB and it's using less than 1.6GB. Those same apps on my 16GB MBP are using about 7GB.

It's caching as much as possible because the RAM is there.

That's true. Not to mention the current SSD speeds are pretty much awesome.

 

[Yebubbleman]

I agree on the idea that inherent flexibility is more than simply having an adapter I have to pay for and native HDMI (although, native HDMI is something I wish was standard a very long time ago). Flexibility is truly being able to say after a few years or so that "Well, my battery only holds a 85% charge, so I'm going to buy a new battery and put it in for relatively cheap". Or, wanting to put new life into your machine and buying newer, faster RAM for cheap or buying the latest SSD. That's what makes the cMBP so great, even if the rMBPs are now cutting edge technology. It's a great time to be an Apple user because a lot of the technology is finally being figured out, but the thing is I know for certain I'm going to miss the legacy design because of just how easy it is to upgrade and replace everything as opposed to paying a premium for repair services you can easily do yourself. On that last point, the cMBP does indeed max out officially at 8GB, but hey, 16GB works just fine in this machine, and for cheaper!

Also, I totally was not aware of this news, but yes, OS X seems to be moving to a yearly upgrade cycle.

Really, I just fear the day that the RAM in my next MBP goes bad...whoops, there goes my WHOLE LOGIC BOARD! Also, the fact that a battery replacement basically entails the removal and reinstallation of literally every component (save for the keyboard, trackpad on 15" models, and top case) is not that great either, but I have a feeling it'll inconvenience me seldom, if ever.

Your computer is using more than 4GB of memory for those things because it has more than 4GB of memory.

I've just loaded the same thing on my MBA with 2GB and it's using less than 1.6GB. Those same apps on my 16GB MBP are using about 7GB.

It's caching as much as possible because the RAM is there.

Really, the fact of the matter is that more and more, software will require more RAM. Not having as much as a given system chipset can support at maximum simply limits the length of usefulness of the computer.

Still, you have one TB port, which is usually hogged by a display, usually without a daisy-chaining option. That leaves you with USB3.0 for fast external connectivity. External flexibility is limited by FW800 (which is becoming obsolete), by ethernet which you may or may not need most of the time - the fact is you can change that port into anything with an adapter. That means in 1 year when FW800 becomes dead, you will be stuck with a FW800 port nobody will care about. On the other hand with the retina you'll tuck the adapter away and get the new thing.

FireWire 800 won't be truly dead and fully pointless until all of the machines shipping with it (which right now is limited to the non-retina unibody MacBook Pro, the Mac mini, and the Mac Pro [one of which is expected to be discontinued this year and one of which is expected to get a major redesign this year]) have aged to the point of natural replacement (5-6 years). Ethernet will never cease to be useful.

You have to pay for an adapter if you need it.
You could say (with the same weight!) that its better to have HDMI,VGA,DVI,DP,MINIDP and perhaps even S-video built-in to the side of the computer.

I don't think that's quite a comparable comparison, but I see your point.

 

[Ploki]

FireWire 800 won't be truly dead and fully pointless until all of the machines shipping with it (which right now is limited to the non-retina unibody MacBook Pro, the Mac mini, and the Mac Pro [one of which is expected to be discontinued this year and one of which is expected to get a major redesign this year]) have aged to the point of natural replacement (5-6 years). Ethernet will never cease to be useful.

True for ethernet, I agree to a certain degree about firewire. Still I believe the biggest Firewire user at the moment is the audio industry (the speeds are too slow for the current video gen, and fast external drives all shifted to either usb3.0 or tb), and new models are currently shifting to either(mostly) USB3 or TB as well.

If there isn't a *live* market for the protocol (meaning new products rolling out) then the standard is as good as dead - commercially. People will get new computers with new interfaces.

I don't think that's quite a comparable comparison, but I see your point

Yeah, I over-exaggerated a bit.
Most of people I know never used the FW port, but then again, the same can be said for the TB port.

 

[Yebubbleman]

So, I've heard this from multiple sources and given that I'm not an audio guy, I'm curious. What are some examples of uses and/or specific devices that require FireWire? I'm asking legitimately as someone who does not know, but is curious because, again, I've heard this from multiple places lately.

 

[Ploki]

So, I've heard this from multiple sources and given that I'm not an audio guy, I'm curious. What are some examples of uses and/or specific devices that require FireWire? I'm asking legitimately as someone who does not know, but is curious because, again, I've heard this from multiple places lately.

USB2.0 was mostly too slow and unstable (+CPU hog) to be used for multiple audio channels over external cards, especially at high sampling rates.

Some best selling pro/prosumer cards:
RME FireFace800 (fw400) was their flagship external card.
RME Fireface UFX, their new flagship, has moved to USB3/FW combo (mostly for legacy issues as likely up-graders used FW)

Apogee Duet (fw400) was their flagship small-format card,
Apogee Duet2 is USB3.0
Apogee Ensemble (fw400) discontinued.
Apogee Symphony Thunderbridge (ported to thunderbolt, apogee is an external unit that connects to various interfaces from pcie to tb)

Echo Audiofire12 multichannel card uses FW400

UAD apollo - new interface, Thunderbolt/fw

The only cards using USB2.0 are up to 6channel or so consumer cards.

There is also the easy of daisy-chaining FW devices compared to USB3.0 which allows for more channels.

 

[el-John-o]

Everyone is doom-and-gloomin' it, but I see at least one more go-round with the non-retina models. The retina pricing just puts it out of reach for a lot of people. At $1200, the cMBP IS competive. Read, not CHEAP, but it's at least 'in the ballpark' of the competition (not $300 notebooks, but other top-shelf notebooks with high end batteries, etc.).

I think it's all going to come down to sales numbers. If the cMBP outsellf the rMBP, I really don't see Apple dropping it UNLESS the drop the rMBP all the way down to cMBP (or darn close) levels.

I could be wrong though, we'll see!

 

[Yebubbleman]

USB2.0 was mostly too slow and unstable (+CPU hog) to be used for multiple audio channels over external cards, especially at high sampling rates.

Some best selling pro/prosumer cards:
RME FireFace800 (fw400) was their flagship external card.
RME Fireface UFX, their new flagship, has moved to USB3/FW combo (mostly for legacy issues as likely up-graders used FW)

Apogee Duet (fw400) was their flagship small-format card,
Apogee Duet2 is USB3.0
Apogee Ensemble (fw400) discontinued.
Apogee Symphony Thunderbridge (ported to thunderbolt, apogee is an external unit that connects to various interfaces from pcie to tb)

Echo Audiofire12 multichannel card uses FW400

UAD apollo - new interface, Thunderbolt/fw

The only cards using USB2.0 are up to 6channel or so consumer cards.

There is also the easy of daisy-chaining FW devices compared to USB3.0 which allows for more channels.

Wait, so were any of those audio interface devices ever ported to FireWire 800? Or did they just stick to FireWire 400 until finally moving to Thunderbolt/USB 2-or-3?

Everyone is doom-and-gloomin' it, but I see at least one more go-round with the non-retina models. The retina pricing just puts it out of reach for a lot of people. At $1200, the cMBP IS competive. Read, not CHEAP, but it's at least 'in the ballpark' of the competition (not $300 notebooks, but other top-shelf notebooks with high end batteries, etc.).

Well, I think in the same vein as the discontinuation of the white unibody MacBook, the 13" MacBook Air will supplant the non-retina 13" MacBook Pro as by the time it comes with Haswell, it'll be plenty faster than the Mid 2012 13" non-retina MacBook Pro, and then for all intents and purposes, Apple will see that machine as filling the roles of both it and the then-former non-retina 13" MacBook Pro. They'll likely drop the pricing of the retina 13" MacBook Pro by at least $100, if not $200 and that'll be acceptible, for the most part.

As for the 15" retina, if they drop pricing by a couple hundred as well, and then maybe releasing an Intel HD 4600 (the Haswell version of the Intel HD 4000) only version of the 15" retina model (similar to their release of the 2.53GHz Core 2 Duo version of the Mid 2009 15" MacBook Pro, which also didn't have a discrete GPU, but was around to have a cheaper entry point into the 15" MacBook Pro territory) that is priced even cheaper, that might be what they end up doing to have a more (price) balanced product line. Given how much better the Intel HD 4600 graphics are supposed to be, that's not a far fetched idea and solution to Apple's problem of selling a product that they themselves deemed legacy and then trying to discontinue it in favor of a more expensive product.

I think it's all going to come down to sales numbers. If the cMBP outsellf the rMBP, I really don't see Apple dropping it UNLESS the drop the rMBP all the way down to cMBP (or darn close) levels.

I could be wrong though, we'll see!

Nah, Apple tends to be pretty adamant about "out with the old, in with the new" unless they keep the old around for an extra year, but that's usually the encore performance before they eventually exit the stage altogether. Believe me, as someone who definitely prefers the non-retina unibody design over the retina, I'm hoping that I'm wrong in this, but I'm extremely doubtful that I am.

 

[el-John-o]

Wait, so were any of those audio interface devices ever ported to FireWire 800? Or did they just stick to FireWire 400 until finally moving to Thunderbolt/USB 2-or-3?



Well, I think in the same vein as the discontinuation of the white unibody MacBook, the 13" MacBook Air will supplant the non-retina 13" MacBook Pro as by the time it comes with Haswell, it'll be plenty faster than the Mid 2012 13" non-retina MacBook Pro, and then for all intents and purposes, Apple will see that machine as filling the roles of both it and the then-former non-retina 13" MacBook Pro. They'll likely drop the pricing of the retina 13" MacBook Pro by at least $100, if not $200 and that'll be acceptible, for the most part.

As for the 15" retina, if they drop pricing by a couple hundred as well, and then maybe releasing an Intel HD 4600 (the Haswell version of the Intel HD 4000) only version of the 15" retina model (similar to their release of the 2.53GHz Core 2 Duo version of the Mid 2009 15" MacBook Pro, which also didn't have a discrete GPU, but was around to have a cheaper entry point into the 15" MacBook Pro territory) that is priced even cheaper, that might be what they end up doing to have a more (price) balanced product line. Given how much better the Intel HD 4600 graphics are supposed to be, that's not a far fetched idea and solution to Apple's problem of selling a product that they themselves deemed legacy and then trying to discontinue it in favor of a more expensive product.



Nah, Apple tends to be pretty adamant about "out with the old, in with the new" unless they keep the old around for an extra year, but that's usually the encore performance before they eventually exit the stage altogether. Believe me, as someone who definitely prefers the non-retina unibody design over the retina, I'm hoping that I'm wrong in this, but I'm extremely doubtful that I am.

Actually that makes a tremendous amount of sense. The $999 MacBook Air ($1200 for a 13") will replace the line as the consumer notebook, and the retina the pro line.

I'm disappointed, personally, due to the lack of upgradability. That's what makes the price sting, being forced to buy the RAM and SSD from Apple which is PRICEY!

Oh well! We got over TONS of stuff becoming integrated/soldered on that used to be upgradable in the 90's. Soon this will be the industry standard and we'll get over it!

 

[Ploki]

Wait, so were any of those audio interface devices ever ported to FireWire 800? Or did they just stick to FireWire 400 until finally moving to Thunderbolt/USB 2-or-3?

Some of them (top of the line) were FW800, but mostly because they were designed after. Rarely were they upgraded (can't recall a single case), so people with unibody macbooks all needed to buy adapters anyway.

 

[ljonesj]

well for me i need a firewire right now and ethernet as my house is block and my wireless does reach into some of the rooms cause of it so my ideal and plus it gives me extra usb 3.0 ports is the belkin tb dock when it hits plus if i ever do get a new imac i can have the firewire still and extra firewire and my thunderbolt port back i have 2 23 aoc monitors so i can hook them up

 

[Ploki]

well for me i need a firewire right now and ethernet as my house is block and my wireless does reach into some of the rooms cause of it so my ideal and plus it gives me extra usb 3.0 ports is the belkin tb dock when it hits plus if i ever do get a new imac i can have the firewire still and extra firewire and my thunderbolt port back i have 2 23 aoc monitors so i can hook them up

one word for you: punctuation.

 

[thehustleman]

Long as I can upgrade it I'm good

 

[Liquinn]

Just purchased a cMBP 15".

I'll be sad to see them get removed by Apple.

But I guess Apple has to move on.

I'll perhaps buy a rMBP next year.

 

[JustLeft]

Just purchased a cMBP 15".

I'll be sad to see them get removed by Apple.

But I guess Apple has to move on.

I'll perhaps buy a rMBP next year.

Just did the same thing! Saved a ton of money. Very happy with the purchase. Also ordered 16 gb of memory.

 

[Ploki]

Just did the same thing! Saved a ton of money. Very happy with the purchase. Also ordered 16 gb of memory.

how did you save money by buying something?

 

[Freyqq]

I think it will stick around until they sell a 15" air for about $1400. Otherwise, there's a huge hole in their lineup pricewise.

 

[Yebubbleman]

Some of them (top of the line) were FW800, but mostly because they were designed after. Rarely were they upgraded (can't recall a single case), so people with unibody macbooks all needed to buy adapters anyway.

Huh. Interesting...

Long as I can upgrade it I'm good

Well, that's kind of the point...with the new ones, you can't, and the old ones are going away...

I think it will stick around until they sell a 15" air for about $1400. Otherwise, there's a huge hole in their lineup pricewise.

They could make a third model of 15" rMBP on the low-end that doesn't have discrete graphics and only has the Intel HD 4600 that comes in tow with Haswell. This would be very similar to the "MacBook Pro (15-inch, 2.53GHz, Mid 2009)" model which only came with the NVIDIA GeForce 9400M, which was the integrated graphics flavor of the year at that time, and no discrete graphics. They could make it so that, given the lack of the discrete GPU, it only requires and comes with the 60W MagSafe 2 plug, and for this next rev (and until the prices on some of the other retina components can come down), it'd fill in the gap nicely. Functionally, it'd be a 13" retina with a larger screen.

Otherwise, the 13" retinas are definitely going to come down in price.

 

[palmerc2]

I'm not a pro user at all in terms of video or picture editing, but I really like the idea of having a 13" rMBP on my travels.

However I don't like the idea that its not user upgradable. As soon as its updated I'll buy whatever model I can upgrade the HDD to a 2.5" SSD and upgrade the ram myself.

So I'm hoping the cMBP sticks around for another refresh or two

 

[Yebubbleman]

I'm going to offer up another possible scenario. Poke holes in it, discuss it further, do what you will.

One of the huge reasons that people in this thread are skeptical of Apple discontinuing the non-retina unibody MacBook Pro in favor of the new retina design, is that the price-points of the retina models are so high and that the resulting price gaps in Apple's notebook line would leave them without machines to sell at previously held price-points to people that would've previously bought machines of that calibur at those prices.

Another big concern is the sensitivity of the 13" MacBook Pro being Apple's best-selling Mac, according to Phil Schiller two months ago.

Given these, my possible scenario is this:

Say Apple, with the next refresh, discontinues the 15" non-retina MacBook Pro. While the higher-end non-retina 15" MacBook Pro held a spot shared with the retina 15" MacBook Pro at the $2199 price-point, there is now a vacancy in the $1799 spot previously held by the lower-end non-retina 15" model. This model, over the last three years (three revs) has had a weaker video option; whether it was 512MB of VRAM versus 1GB, or a 6490M versus a 6750M or a 6750M with 512MB of VRAM versus a 6770M with 1GB, there has always been a graphics disparity between the $1799 model and the $2199 model.

So, in the place of the $1799 15" non-retina model, Apple could put out a $1799 retina model that ONLY incorporates the Intel HD 4600 that is due to come out in Haswell. This IGP, while still not being as powerful as a discrete GPU, it still ought to close the gap that much more. This machine would be akin to the low-end model Mid 2009 2.53GHz 15" MacBook Pro model that only came with the NVIDIA GeForce 9400M IGP and without the 9600M GT that the higher-end models had.

The 13" Retina would likely drop in price by $100-300, making it $~1499 and $~1699. Apple, given the popularity of the non-retina 13" MacBook Pro, might elect to either issue it a silent Haswell update internally or to just keep the Ivy Bridge model around for another generation or to use the recently released lower-wattage models and keep it around for another year much in the same way that the iPad 2 has enjoyed a long stay of execution. Given the fact that the MacBook Air has more or less cannibalized the 13" non-retina Pro at the entry level, only the high-end 13" Pro might remain.

Given all of this, the MacBook line-up for 2013 could look like this:

11" MacBook Air - Low-end - $999

11" MacBook Air - High-end - $1099

13" MacBook Air - Low-end - $1199

13" MacBook Air - High-end - $1499

13" MacBook Pro (non-retina) - High-end - $1499

13" MacBook Pro (retina) - Low-end - $1499

13" MacBook Pro (retina) - High-end - $1699

15" MacBook Pro (retina; Intel integrated graphics only) - $1799

15" MacBook Pro (retina; Low-end with discrete graphics) - $2199

15" MacBook Pro (retina; High end) - $2799

(For those that fantasize about a 17" retina, insert those predictions at this end of the chart).

What say you all?

 

[Freyqq]

True for ethernet, I agree to a certain degree about firewire. Still I believe the biggest Firewire user at the moment is the audio industry (the speeds are too slow for the current video gen, and fast external drives all shifted to either usb3.0 or tb), and new models are currently shifting to either(mostly) USB3 or TB as well.

If there isn't a *live* market for the protocol (meaning new products rolling out) then the standard is as good as dead - commercially. People will get new computers with new interfaces.


Yeah, I over-exaggerated a bit.
Most of people I know never used the FW port, but then again, the same can be said for the TB port.

There's still likely more fw800 accessories available than thunderbolt at the moment

 

[applepie555]

I'm going to offer up another possible scenario. Poke holes in it, discuss it further, do what you will.

One of the huge reasons that people in this thread are skeptical of Apple discontinuing the non-retina unibody MacBook Pro in favor of the new retina design, is that the price-points of the retina models are so high and that the resulting price gaps in Apple's notebook line would leave them without machines to sell at previously held price-points to people that would've previously bought machines of that calibur at those prices.

Another big concern is the sensitivity of the 13" MacBook Pro being Apple's best-selling Mac, according to Phil Schiller two months ago.

Given these, my possible scenario is this:

Say Apple, with the next refresh, discontinues the 15" non-retina MacBook Pro. While the higher-end non-retina 15" MacBook Pro held a spot shared with the retina 15" MacBook Pro at the $2199 price-point, there is now a vacancy in the $1799 spot previously held by the lower-end non-retina 15" model. This model, over the last three years (three revs) has had a weaker video option; whether it was 512MB of VRAM versus 1GB, or a 6490M versus a 6750M or a 6750M with 512MB of VRAM versus a 6770M with 1GB, there has always been a graphics disparity between the $1799 model and the $2199 model.

So, in the place of the $1799 15" non-retina model, Apple could put out a $1799 retina model that ONLY incorporates the Intel HD 4600 that is due to come out in Haswell. This IGP, while still not being as powerful as a discrete GPU, it still ought to close the gap that much more. This machine would be akin to the low-end model Mid 2009 2.53GHz 15" MacBook Pro model that only came with the NVIDIA GeForce 9400M IGP and without the 9600M GT that the higher-end models had.

The 13" Retina would likely drop in price by $100-300, making it $~1499 and $~1699. Apple, given the popularity of the non-retina 13" MacBook Pro, might elect to either issue it a silent Haswell update internally or to just keep the Ivy Bridge model around for another generation or to use the recently released lower-wattage models and keep it around for another year much in the same way that the iPad 2 has enjoyed a long stay of execution. Given the fact that the MacBook Air has more or less cannibalized the 13" non-retina Pro at the entry level, only the high-end 13" Pro might remain.

Given all of this, the MacBook line-up for 2013 could look like this:

11" MacBook Air - Low-end - $999

11" MacBook Air - High-end - $1099

13" MacBook Air - Low-end - $1199

13" MacBook Air - High-end - $1499

13" MacBook Pro (non-retina) - High-end - $1499

13" MacBook Pro (retina) - Low-end - $1499

13" MacBook Pro (retina) - High-end - $1699

15" MacBook Pro (retina; Intel integrated graphics only) - $1799

15" MacBook Pro (retina; Low-end with discrete graphics) - $2199

15" MacBook Pro (retina; High end) - $2799

(For those that fantasize about a 17" retina, insert those predictions at this end of the chart).

What say you all?

Perhaps if apple decided to be more generous they'd put a 1gb discrete in the $1799 and 2gb in the $2199...