pastrychef
macrumors 601
Tim Cook is most definitely not running Apple to the ground.
Source:https://www.statista.com/chart/17545/worlds-most-profitable-companies/
MP 7,1 Is the new Mac Pro too expensive? [MERGED]
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Tim Cook is most definitely not running Apple to the ground.
Source:https://www.statista.com/chart/17545/worlds-most-profitable-companies/
russell_314
macrumors G3
By "computer business" you must mean them not selling a computer that Apple doesn't make so you can't buy. Their computer business is doing quite well other than that though.
[doublepost=1559954242][/doublepost]By the way I would love for them to sell a mid range non pro desktop. The question of this forum should be "Should Apple make a Mac Semi-Pro mid tower that starts around $2,500?"
Zdigital2015
macrumors 601
I think he means a computer that Apple doesn’t make that he wants Apple to make at the price he wants, so he can buy the bare bones model and fill it with his own New Egg Shell Shocker Deals until something breaks and he keeps some poor Apple Tech Support person on the hook trying to get that obscure part to work even though it was never designed to work with a Mac, but its a PC part and Apple should support it or give him his money back!
pastrychef
macrumors 601
Invest in some AAPL stock and let AAPL pay for your Mac Pro.
russell_314
macrumors G3
Hey some of those deals on Newegg are awesome LOL. You're probably right that could be a reason why Apple doesn't make a mid range desktop. I could imagine people trying to upgrade it then blaming Apple when something goes wrong.
Zdigital2015
macrumors 601
Some of those deals ARE awesome and I have taken advantage of them, but we have people on these forums still pining for FireWire 800 ports and full size Ethernet ports on a modern MacBook Pro...
I had G3, G4, G5 and is currently have a 3,1 Mac Pro and upgrading was hit and miss...I would actually rather Apple build an iMac and an iMac Pro that can be opened up without a pizza cutter and has a modern PCIE 3.0 x16 MXM slot for the GPU, I would do cartwheels, while seriously fixing the thermal constraints of the current chassis!
Of course, people would be ticked since there isn’t going to be an NVIDIA GPU to go in it.
Thysanoptera
macrumors 6502a
Just like they always did.
I think you just described adventures of every Mac Pro 5.1 owner in the last decade. Of course, Apple tech support should be substituted by various helpful (including very much this one) forums, if something is not supported - Apple will not help you. You'd be very surprised how much is not supported and how much some bright members of the community got to work.
Thank you for suggestions, already have AAPL, although just 162 shares but they amount to only 1.47% of my large cap stock asset allocation, while large cap is 68% of my overall portfolio. I think I'll be fine.
Mike Richardson
macrumors regular
I can buy an iMac for $1200 and it might last me roughly 5 years.
I (did) buy a Mac Pro for $2400 and it's already lasted me nearly 10 years. I can put a few inexpensive upgrades (which are very cheap on the used market, being that it's 10 year old tech), and milk out a couple of more years.
I did the same thing with the Power Mac G5 (used continuously 2004-2016) and before that a Power Macintosh 6500 (used continuously 1997 - 2004 - this one was obsoleted due to OS X).
I seriously doubt that the New Mac Pro would last me for over 20 years in the base, default configuration.
So now it's just all f**ked. No more growing with the computer, because you can no longer afford the f*ing computer.
It will be interesting to see what the used prices are for the New Mac Pro, 5 years out.
I (did) buy a Mac Pro for $2400 and it's already lasted me nearly 10 years. I can put a few inexpensive upgrades (which are very cheap on the used market, being that it's 10 year old tech), and milk out a couple of more years.
I did the same thing with the Power Mac G5 (used continuously 2004-2016) and before that a Power Macintosh 6500 (used continuously 1997 - 2004 - this one was obsoleted due to OS X).
I seriously doubt that the New Mac Pro would last me for over 20 years in the base, default configuration.
So now it's just all f**ked. No more growing with the computer, because you can no longer afford the f*ing computer.
It will be interesting to see what the used prices are for the New Mac Pro, 5 years out.
ct2k7
macrumors G3
It’ll be the software which doesn’t support it before hardware failure, most likely.
That said 10 years is a good run, but for a lot of people, that price is a bit too much. I myself am likely to need a beefier CPU when I order and I’ll stick with the GPU they give me. For me, thermal throttling kills me.
William Payne
macrumors 6502a
For those of you in business who want to build your own computer and such. How do you deal with things not working or down time due to a part issue or something.
If I was building a PC for personal use something going wrong wouldn’t be as big of a deal. But in a business setting with clients I can’t just say “sorry I’m going to miss that deadline because my such and such doesn’t work with my thing.
If it’s personal fixing things myself is fine. If it’s work related well that stuff is being sent out immediately to get fixed so that I can get back to work as soon as possible.
If I was building a PC for personal use something going wrong wouldn’t be as big of a deal. But in a business setting with clients I can’t just say “sorry I’m going to miss that deadline because my such and such doesn’t work with my thing.
If it’s personal fixing things myself is fine. If it’s work related well that stuff is being sent out immediately to get fixed so that I can get back to work as soon as possible.
William Payne
macrumors 6502a
I see that in all parts of life. I look at it differently. For me I hate the word "Can't" it goes against my succeed at all costs personality. If I want something but can't afford it I look at what I have to do to get to the level where I can.
Yes my personality annoys a lot of people.
BlueTide
macrumors regular
Back in the day when I burnt myself with "pro" components, one of the lessons was that they weren't really better, just more expensive, and with the price difference I could just buy a new whatever consumer component that happened to fail - far faster than I would get someone to fix the broken one. And be back up and running far quicker. I never had to do that, but math was in favor of it.
These days, I just get the computers from my employer and live with that.
xraydoc
Contributor
Sorry for not reading the prior 20 pages in this thread, but it’s really too bad Apple doesn’t sell a headless machine between the mini and the Pro.
I’d like a desktop-class machine with half decent (as in, not integrated) graphics and a fast processor, but don’t want a non-replaceable display (even if it’s a 5K display).
I’d pay iMac prices for a headless iMac with desktop-class parts.
Since it doesn’t exist, I’ve been on W10 for almost 1 year now on two machines: a Surface Book 2 and a triple-head HP desktop for an at-home work workstation.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Gotta do what ya gotta do.
I’d like a desktop-class machine with half decent (as in, not integrated) graphics and a fast processor, but don’t want a non-replaceable display (even if it’s a 5K display).
I’d pay iMac prices for a headless iMac with desktop-class parts.
Since it doesn’t exist, I’ve been on W10 for almost 1 year now on two machines: a Surface Book 2 and a triple-head HP desktop for an at-home work workstation.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Gotta do what ya gotta do.
Micky Do
macrumors 68020
Not a computer (and monitor) for the covetous masses..... Probably fair value for the niche with a real need for a powerful computer that they can spec to suit their requirements.
mtasquared
macrumors regular
My thoughts mostly echo what has been said before. My 5,1 cmp is 8 years old and shows no sign of breaking, even though I replaced everything in it multiple times over, and also shorted an auxillary power cable when I tried to hot plug in a card. It just shut down. Then I restarted it and it worked. Point is, they are engineered to last forever, and history bears this out. If I buy the 2019 Mac Pro it will be the last workstation I ever buy. Apple could foresee this and needs their money, especially since everybody is not going to upgrade with Apple parts but cheaper ones bought elsewhere. Its not that hard to figure out.
On the other hand, they could also have made a cheapo Mac Pro out of stamped sheet metal with an off the shelf server dual CPU mobo and just stuck mac OS on an SSD. Voila! However, what a POS mac pro that would be compared to what we have just seen.
On the other hand, they could also have made a cheapo Mac Pro out of stamped sheet metal with an off the shelf server dual CPU mobo and just stuck mac OS on an SSD. Voila! However, what a POS mac pro that would be compared to what we have just seen.
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"The new Mac Pro is actually very competitively priced when compared to Z Workstations and other Pro machines."
this may be true for the monitor, but come on...
it is absolute not regarding the mac pro. for the same price you can get a windows pc with almost the double computing performance. and this is just looking at the entry level 6k, the comparison will be way worse if you want a faster workstation. there are cheaper options than Z Workstations, and most of the windows workstations offer dual core configurations which double the performance for this kind of machines.
but for me it is not even the money...
the downsides of the new pro are
- single core only
- support for nvidia gpus uncertain
- bad price/performance ratio
- not convinced apple will be committed to highend workstations in the future
(i do not be want to be in the same situation again in 5 years and do not have an upgrade option again for years)
- not convinced the cg industry will support these machines in the long run
(we'll see if and when redshift and octane will run on metal. i suppose this was marketing talk)
aaronhead14
macrumors 65816
I think you ought to do some research to learn the difference between consumer hardware and workstation hardware. They're very different. You won't find workstation-class hardware comparable to the Mac Pro that is cheaper than the Mac Pro. It's just simply not available at a lower price point.
Please check the AAPL. Its not going to make you any money the coming years if the trend of 2018-19 stays. Your (?) great douchebag US president is doing what he can to drag down the US stocks and economy.
Zellio
macrumors 65816
I'll tell you it's overpriced all I want to. And I suppose you can assume I'm poor all you want and I'll add this little picture of a little cpu I just recently bought to upgrade my 7820x you may or may not have heard of... But it's only an 18 core 7980xe and costs nearly $2000.
https://imgur.com/UMmbhYX
There's a TINY difference between buying what you need and throwing money away. People get rich by not throwing money away. They don't spend days making excuses for overpriced goods, making such amazing arguments like comparing a 580x to a custom sgi workstation that had the best graphics on the market, or comparing it to old mac prices when all old pcs were stupidly priced.
And while we are at it, what can YOU afford?
[doublepost=1559975264][/doublepost]
1. You haven't even seen final prices yet. 2. 'Workstation class hardware' has existed for many years as HEDT. Ram for years has become safer, so again I'm going to argue that one guy working on a single workstation (And the pc isn't being used as a server) doesn't need ecc ram, 3. Nvidia graphics completely kicks AMD asses (Which is ironic for those claiming that this machine is anywhere near what an SGI workstation was, which was btw untouchable graphics wise), and 4. HEDT Intel processors have AVX for those who need it
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mode11
macrumors 68000
Maybe it is wishful thinking on my part, I am hoping after the initial surge in sales, maybe Apple might use the same enclosure and bring a 4 and 6 core versions of the new MP with less expansion capabilities starting at $3/4k systems. Also a 5K display with stand at $2.5k. I can only hope...
I wonder down the road after sales start to slow down, they finally will open these machines to the rest of the pro market. Keep in mind if they do not move that many units, I wonder how much effort they will put on future updates.
You would buy a 4 core tower for $3000?? Or a 5K display for $2500? And that’s all you dare to hope for from Apple? It speaks volumes for how demoralised people who want an affordable Mac tower are. I hear you brother, but I doubt they will do even this, and if they did they wouldn’t deserve to sell any.
Buying a second hand Mac Pro has been the traditional way to get a reasonably priced, reasonably powerful Apple tower. That’s why their move upmarket is so disappointing. It will take ages for a $10k machine to come down to, say, $3k. Especially as they will be sold in tiny numbers.
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Bug-Creator
macrumors 68000
Nah, that ain't the problem.
The fact that there is nothing suitable build/sold between late 2013 and late 2019 is.
If Apple had updated the mPro instead of replacing it with a MacMidiPro (trashcan) it would just be that we had to go from hunting down 3 year old HW to 5 year old HW to keep a sweet spot on pricing.
But I also understand Apple for not making a 4k$/€ base config as this one would still have the same chassis specs for keeping the 1.4KW top spec in thermal check. Hence that version would surely be overpriced compared to the actual base specs which seem to be price relatively competitive to buying other high end workstations.
William Payne
macrumors 6502a
We cannot control anything that apple has done up until now. Lets focus on today.
theluggage
macrumors G3
If existing Mac Pro customers can't afford a new Mac Pro with the same specs w.r.t. the state of the art then, yes, that means it is too expensive.
You can try all the double-think you like, but the entry-level Mac Pro is the replacement for the old Mac Pro and, even allowing for inflation (although that has never really affected PC prices in the past) it has doubled in price.
Ignore the 28 core, quad Vega II monster that was demoed - we have no idea how much that will cost and maybe Pixar will think its worth every penny - all we have so far is a $6000 entry-level tower with the spec of a $3500 PC
https://store.hp.com/UKStore/Merch/Product.aspx?id=4RX30EA&opt=ABU&sel=WKS - £3178 in UK tax (probably ~ $3500 in US) - definitely not a consumer PC, reputable (deservedly or not) manufacturer, 3.7 GHz 8-core Xeon W, 32GB RAM, 512GB SSD (but its not gonna cost $2500 to add a PCIe/M.2 SSD and 10Gb Ethernet if you need those).
If you're getting $6000+ for an 8 core Xeon tower then you may need to research the difference between a $800 Xeon and a $2000 Xeon, or a $400 NVIDIA Quadro and a $3000 NVIDIA Quadro.
Inconvenient truth - the specs of that $6000 Mac Pro are no better than you'd expect from a $2500 cheesegrater (so, low $3000s after inflation) bumped to modern price-point-equivalent specs.
mode11
macrumors 68000
True. If Apple had continued making towers, we would all be rocking 2016 workstations by now. Which would soften the 5 year wait to buy a s/h 2019 MP. In the long run we can settle in to being 5 years behind, and a 5 year old Uber-workstation isn’t too shabby. My machine is already 10 years old, though, and I don’t really fancy waiting another 5.