Is this a good idea? Buying a Power Mac G5 to browse the internet with TenFourFox

[Certificate of Excellence]

IMO one would not as the SATA interface for the G5 is limited to 1.5Gbps or, in rough terms, 150MB/sec. Any modern SSD should be able to achieve this speed. A two SSD RAID 0 configuration would be bottlenecked by the SATA interface.

If there is a PCI-X based RAID card then that might work. I have a quad Z-Turbo drive configured as 4 x 512GB (2TB total) which has a benchmark read speed of 10.1GB/sec (whereas the individual drives benchmark at 3.4GB/sec). Needless to say a three times increase in speed is noticeable when working with large files.

I am unaware of one that boots a a1117 G5. IIRC there was a thread about getting bootable SAS drives working that would yield superior results to a potential sata1 bottleneck but will cost.

Here: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/sas-card-for-g5quad.2259020/page-9

 

[Amethyst1]

IMO one would not as the SATA interface for the G5 is limited to 1.5Gbps or, in rough terms, 150MB/sec. Any modern SSD should be able to achieve this speed. A two SSD RAID 0 configuration would be bottlenecked by the SATA interface.

The 1.5Gbps limit is per port, so a two-SSD RAID 0 should be faster (disclaimer: I don't have a G5 to test).

If there is a PCI-X based RAID card then that might work.

If you have a PCIe G5, one of these is the fastest option, although not bootable.

 

[orionquest]

As a daily driver not a good idea. But clearly you have a modern computer which you can do real stuff on.

As a hobby project, why not. It's a hobby, there is no need to justify it, just a fun thing to enjoy and explore.

But I think you have to lower your expectations as to what the experience will be like compared to anything modern as people have pointed out. Also I am curious did you not have the experience of these computers back when they were new? I'd never go back. I've used a lot of Apple gear over the years and for me the G5's were some of the worse computers Apple made. Anything before and after them were much better. Just my experience.

 

[2aw]

As a daily driver not a good idea. But clearly you have a modern computer which you can do real stuff on.

As a hobby project, why not. It's a hobby, there is no need to justify it, just a fun thing to enjoy and explore.

But I think you have to lower your expectations as to what the experience will be like compared to anything modern as people have pointed out. Also I am curious did you not have the experience of these computers back when they were new? I'd never go back. I've used a lot of Apple gear over the years and for me the G5's were some of the worse computers Apple made. Anything before and after them were much better. Just my experience.

No, I never used any PowerPC mac before, my first apple computer was a 2010 15" MacBook Pro, which was an intel CPU model.

 

[B S Magnet]

No, I never used any PowerPC mac before, my first apple computer was a 2010 15" MacBook Pro, which was an intel CPU model.

If you started using Macs in 2010 with that MacBook Pro, you’ll find a lot of superficial similarities between your experience with Snow Leopard on there and using Leopard on a G5 — except the G5 experience will be both slower, in terms of the aforementioned CPU processing power and also that Leopard is a little heavier as an OS (at least, as-unmodified, out of box).

 

[2aw]

If you started using Macs in 2010 with that MacBook Pro, you’ll find a lot of superficial similarities between your experience with Snow Leopard on there and using Leopard on a G5 — except the G5 experience will be both slower, in terms of the aforementioned CPU processing power and also that Leopard is a little heavier as an OS (at least, as-unmodified, out of box).

I actually started with Macs in 2012, since I bought that 2010 15" MacBook Pro refurbished, as I couldn't afford to buy it new.

 

[2aw]

Should I get a used iMac G5 (they can be gotten for a good price in the local classified if you wait long enough), upgrading the RAM to 2 GB or 4.5 GB

Actual Maximum RAM of All iMac Models - Macs By Capability: EveryMac.com

The actual maximum RAM for each Apple iMac with complete specs a click away. Includes memory info, motherboard RAM, RAM slots, identifiers and more.

everymac.com

and use it to browse the internet with InterWebPPC or TenFourFox?

According to the link above the:
Fastest iMac G5 Geekbench is 1180 [a 40% increase in speed compared to the slowest one listed below!]
Slowest iMac G5 Geekbench is 842


I would have a nicely designed aesthetic all-in-one computer and I theorize that an iMac G5 with 2 GB or 4.5 GB of RAM (would even 2 GB work, is that too low for the modern web? I have 16 GB on my MacBook Pro and I wouldn’t go any lower if I was buying a new laptop today) should be fast enough for InterWebPPC and TenFourFox.

1. I think an SSD upgrade would be good, and it would be an easy swap since the iMac uses SATA. But I read most PPC Macs don't boot from USB (how ancient). Then how can I re-install the OS? I don't want to burn some installation DVDs, that sounds so finicky.
2. Is there anything like Carbon Copy Cloner for older MacOS versions like 10.4 and earlier?
3. What is the noise level of the iMac G5’s? I prefer my computers to be very quiet.
4. How is the reliability of the iMac G5? I read that there can be bad and leaking capacitors showing up over time.
5. Is it true that some iMac G5's didn't come with a wifi card installed by default (Can you believe that back then wifi wasn’t standard!)? Would getting a USB Wifi adapter work (are there even any models with available older Mac drivers?), or do I have to spring for a used (and overpriced) AirPort Extreme card on eBay?

What do you all think?

What can be improved on this idea?

 

[m1maverick]

The 1.5Gbps limit is per port, so a two-SSD RAID 0 should be faster (disclaimer: I don't have a G5 to test).

Doh, that's right...I forgot SATA is point to point.

 

[Dronecatcher]

Are you a bot?

 

[floral]

A lot of people already answered this for you... why did you make another thread for it?

 

[2aw]

Are you a bot?

No, I am very much human.

You guys have managed to convince me to give up my dream of getting a Power Mac G5 (it does seem like overkill to get one just for browsing the internet), so I thought about moving onto the next best PowerPC computer for that... and here we are in this new thread.

 

[Amethyst1]

Should I get a used iMac G5 [...] and use it to browse the internet with InterWebPPC or TenFourFox?

No. Same problem as in your other thread: hopelessly outdated browsers on OS X 10.4/10.5.

If you want the aesthetic: A white 17”/20” Core 2 Duo iMac has the same aesthetic as an iMac G5 and will run OS X Mountain Lion or Mavericks (with patches), which will give you e.g. Firefox 78 ESR (old) or Chromium Legacy (newer) in terms of browsers. The white 24” iMac is gorgeous — but well known for NVIDIA GPU failures.

But if you want a really up-to-date, official browser, you need a 2008 or later Mac that can run at least macOS High Sierra.

PPC Macs can boot from USB just fine BTW.

 

[floral]

No, I am very much human.

You guys have managed to convince me to give up my dream of getting a Power Mac G5 (it does seem like overkill to get one just for browsing the internet), so I thought about moving onto the next best PowerPC computer for that... and here we are in this new thread.

Oh. Well, if you didn't notice, the majority vote was don't buy any kind of PowerPC-based Mac, not just a PowerMac.
It is of course your choice if you really want to buy one, but I still don't recommend using a nearly 2-decade-old device, especially a laptop, unironically. It feels like you're going in reverse considering a PowerPC laptop is considerably worse than a PowerMac, as those at least have some "Power" going for them.

And, my "Part Two" recommendation is still to buy an early Intel machine or later. Some people manage to find those for free if you go right near the transition to Intel, and as far as I know, prices don't go past $100 for a lot of them. Plus, again, you can upgrade the RAM, storage, and sort if you don't like the initial specs. (understandable)

 

[Boyd01]

not that the asthetic of a mini is bad. I am a big fan of the small form factor.

IMO, the 2018 Mini was the best in this regard, with its dark space grey color. I have the old space grey keyboard (also discontinued) that looks especially nice. They also go back to Mojave, if you need 32-bit app support.

IIRC, the 2011 Mini only has USB 2.0, which would be a deal-breaker for me, the 2012 mini has gotten pretty inexpensive these days and you get USB 3.0 which opens the door to inexpensive external SSD's (I get ~400MB/sec on mine). The 2012 quad i7's are the ones to get and their prices have dropped a lot, but the base model dual core is still pretty good for basic web browsing and can be easily upgraded to 16gb.

 

[Amethyst1]

IIRC, the 2011 Mini only has USB 2.0, which would be a deal-breaker for me,

There’s a Thunderbolt to USB 3.0 adapter made by Kanex, and every Thunderbolt 1/2 dock includes a USB 3.0 controller and some ports.

The 2012 quad i7's are the ones to get and their prices have dropped a lot, but the base model dual core is still pretty good for basic web browsing and can be easily upgraded to 16gb.

I’d still go for the quad-core given the choice is there, unlike with the 2014. Dual-cores are getting long in the tooth.

 

[Dronecatcher]

No, I am very much human.

In that case the answer to your rephrased question is: Yes (if prices are irrelevant.)

 

[TheShortTimer]

1. Is there anything like Carbon Copy Cloner for older MacOS versions like 10.4 and earlier?

Earlier version of CCC are compatible with Tiger.

1. How is the reliability of the iMac G5? I read that there can be bad and leaking capacitors showing up over time.

The pre iSight iMac G5s are notorious for PSU and capacitor problems. I have one within my signature that's afflicted by the infamous swollen capacitor issue. It serves as a donor machine for my other Macs. If it wasn't for the LCD being destroyed, I might have been tempted to replace the capacitors.

To concur with the others: forget it! The later ranges of PM G5's wipe the floor with the iMac G5 so it would be illogical to reject the former in favour of the latter. I disagree with the description of PPC Macs as not worth obtaining in their entirety - they can be an excellent acquisition with the caveat that you are aware of their limitations in comparison to their Intel successors.

For you an early Intel Mac would offer more scope for what you have planned.

 

[B S Magnet]

I am unaware of one that boots a a1117 G5. IIRC there was a thread about getting bootable SAS drives working that would yield superior results to a potential sata1 bottleneck but will cost.

Here: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/sas-card-for-g5quad.2259020/page-9

Here’s one. On the company’s compatibility chart, this card explicitly states “PM G5 bootable”.

And we also have the resident expert on this era of FirmTek cards, @Ataman Honcho Honchev, who’d be best qualified to speak definitively on this.

 

[orionquest]

No, I never used any PowerPC mac before, my first apple computer was a 2010 15" MacBook Pro, which was an intel CPU model.

Hmm interesting. I don't understand why you are interested in a PowerPC computer if you didn't have a chance to use one previously. Typically this would be a nostalgia type project/interest. But with someone who already started out with something more modern which kinda propelled the platform forward, seems curious to me.

I've seen the Mac evolve a few times and experienced it from MacSE days, to PowerPC's to Intel's, haven't gotten to the Silicon Mac yet. Some fun memories and attachment to them. I have a MacSE, a souped up MacIIci, and a couple of G4 towers and my intel Hackintosh.

 

[Dronecatcher]

Hmm interesting. I don't understand why you are interested in a PowerPC computer if you didn't have a chance to use one previously.

I'd say it's more common for people who've no direct experience of something vintage to explore and gravitate towards it - as they will have no bad memories of the pitfalls.

Take vinyl for example - charming as it is it, I don't miss the crackle, the jumps and scratches, the wonky turnables etc

 

[TheShortTimer]

Take vinyl for example - charming as it is it, I don't miss the crackle, the jumps and scratches, the wonky turnables etc

It depended on the set up you were using. With one of these, much of that was eliminated from my experience.

 

[Dronecatcher]

With one of these, much of that was eliminated from my experience.

I could never afford one of those Even if I could, secondhand records came with surface noise/scratches - in fact, new releases could come damaged too (had a few of those) plus you lend out your records and they come back scratched and dog eared etc.

 

[B S Magnet]

It depended on the set up you were using. With one of these, much of that was eliminated from my experience.

I only ever got to own one SL-1200 MKII (the silver model) and only in the ’90s, which I bought used but in amazing condition; I’d always wished I had two. And mine never had a cartridge as lovely as what appears to be that Ortfon setup in the pic (though my current turntable, also a Technics direct-drive from the late ’70s, albeit super-low torque, does have Ortfon on it).

The SL-12x0s are a work of timeless art and quality.

 

[B S Magnet]

What do you all think?

Sincerely?

I think you’re setting yourself up for a lot of disappointment. I mean, if you want a PowerPC Mac because, say, you want to play games designed for PowerPC Macs (OS X or OS 9), or you want to use period-appropriate software for other tasks, then sure, find a PowerPC Mac. But if you’re putting that much fretting into this, you might just want to open your span beyond the G5 series, which has had more troubles in design and reliability than other “G”-series Power Macs.

Even as I mentioned in the other thread about having a G5, I’ve used my G4 Macs, past and present, far and beyond anything I’ve done on my one and only G5. If you’re serious about delving into the PowerPC Macs realm, you ought to stop being preoccupied by superficials like Geekbench scores, as this is kind of meaningless relative to what you can still do with them (like, for example, music recording and non-linear editing, and on some models, sending and receiving digital optical audio).

Moreover, the wifi thing on the G5s you keep asking about are going to be stuck with AirPort Extreme 802.11g — which is dog-slow relative to even its successor in the early Intel Macs age, 802.11n.

So, tl;dr: open your scope to more than just G5s — and most key, figure out why you’ll be using it — or stick with early Intel Macs.

What can be improved on this idea?

Well… there’s always the Nintendo Wii…

 

[orionquest]

I'd say it's more common for people who've no direct experience of something vintage to explore and gravitate towards it - as they will have no bad memories of the pitfalls.

Take vinyl for example - charming as it is it, I don't miss the crackle, the jumps and scratches, the wonky turnables etc

Oh don't get me wrong, if you are interested in something so be it, Apple has and does make some cool hardware and if someone new to the platform what's to explore historically how we got here, all good, and it's a great way to be an Apple fan.

Lol, vinyl not a great example, but I get the point. I grew up with it. Have several cases of records. Some of the songs are white labels, which could only be had on vinyl. And as @TheShortTimer pointed out good equipment overcame some of the quality issues, those where awesome decks. I never got around to buying one as I was a poor student, even used they were expensive. Everyone who had was swore by it. Then CD's came along and well..