Apparently, up until the SECOND that the 2016 models came out, 16GB of RAM was enough. I am not sure?
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Apparently, up until the SECOND that the 2016 models came out, 16GB of RAM was enough. I am not sure?
Machines that fit the users' requirements and were competitive and cost effective at the time, which includes several Macs as well as several non-Apple machines - depending on the era period and each user's specific requirements.
Of course the current MBP would have been a godsend to anybody in the 80s - or in 2010.
But for that matter any cheap netbook of today would have been a godsend to people in the 80s.
A cheap netbook is now probably faster than a top-specced SGI workstation of the late 80s.
And yet, the latter was clearly designed to cater to a different audience.
Similarly, I feel the Apple that designed the Powerbook Duo had a different audience in mind than the Apple that designed the tbMBP - and the clock speed doesn't tell all the story.
You might have heard of this thing known as "progress", which reflects in growing footprint of software and data, and of this thing known as "staying competitive", which means you want to have up-to-date hardware
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What do you mean, instead ?
- Maxed out 2013 13" had a better ratio battery / TDP than the 2016 one.
- The 2015 has normal ports where you can plug , you know, peripherals used by 99% of your industry instead of dongles at home and at your work, and your goddamn latest phone from the same goddamn company.
Outside of those considerations, you can very well say and observe this machine isn't Pro for a machine released end of 2016.
See psges and pages of discussion on the topic. It simply doesn't meet the requirements of pros in 2016, this should have been a macBook update, not a mbp update.
I have yet to meet a developer around me who's really happy / impressed with them for those who upgraded, and for the others they all wait for the next iteration to see how it goes. I switched because I had no choice (started a new job and had to ditch my previous one) and I confirm this is a lemon.
But hey, it looks pretty, you sure look hype with it in a cafe.
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He's trolling, you're wasting your time.You might have heard of this thing known as "progress", which reflects in growing footprint of software and data, and of this thing known as "staying competitive", which means you want to have
No amount of facts or reasonable opinions will stop the bickering here, I chose to ignore him.
I bet lots of people who complain about 16Gb or RAM can get by with less. Take working with audio samples, effect plug-ins and software instruments as an example. It's entirely possible to do it by managing your work flow by doing new audio samples of midi tracks, but in doing so you end up pretty handicapped in the creative process.
I bet there are many fields where this is the case. So we have a new product from Apple with the same amount of ram as the previous iterations. It's not the end of the world and some of us actually use other brands than Apple, but I for one would be happy with some decent hardware from Apple. Personally I couldn't care less about pretty screens and touch pad keyboards.
I mean - there are a lot of pros that can make use of it.
As was the case for the previous one.
The point is that the line has, matter of fact-ly, evolved into something that falls between the "fashion ultrabook" and "desktop replacement" categories - it's not a straight business laptop (you can tell those because they come with lotsa ports - if you are lucky, even an actual VGA port like the AsusPro line) nor a mobile workstation (puny 16GB, lack of ports and expandability).
That's not exactly news anyway - the Quadra Workgroup Server, the XServe, the Powerbook Duo and the like have gone the way of the dodo at least 10 years ago.
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Oh, yeah, it's very well known that Chris Lord-Alge has produced stellar mixes for years with a 16 track, 44Khz machine by boucing the hell out of tracks.
They sent a man on the moon with a hundredth of the processing power in the new MBP.
I still don't think I would like my livelihood to depend on a 80486 with 4MB RAM
I so agree with both of you niploteksi and villicodelirant.
It became (even more) a fashion product and that's why we have most of those complains.
And yes, I too can do my work with 8GB instead of 16GB RAM. My compiling time almost doubles in doing so, and since I compile hundreds of time each day, it matters.
Anyway, back to OP yes this reaction is normal, we got a subpar product which disappoints a part of the community, more than it did with previous iterations.
It became (even more) a fashion product and that's why we have most of those complains.
And yes, I too can do my work with 8GB instead of 16GB RAM. My compiling time almost doubles in doing so, and since I compile hundreds of time each day, it matters.
Anyway, back to OP yes this reaction is normal, we got a subpar product which disappoints a part of the community, more than it did with previous iterations.
I think Apple valued thin design over maintaining the MacBook Pro 15" being a desktop replacement to actual developers and mobile audio/video customers. Quite possible Apple preferred keeping a "thin" re-design hoping for DDR3L/DDR4 density to reach 32-64GB in the same form-factor as the current chips by the time of Kaby/Cannon Lake. IMO, from a developer point of view there is no point in using/owning a Mac as Apple doesn't care about their desktop OS--Mac Pro is old, Mac mini is old and iMac specs are meh too.
On a regular basis I still use the SDXC slot on my MBP, dealing with dongles is pure insanity and ditching Magsafe which has saved many MBA/MBPs over the years is another stupid move. Lack of desktop refersh left me looking elsewhere. So far I've replaced my Mac mini(Sandy Bridge) with a Core i7 6700K and now my notebook direction is leaning elsewhere too.
Way things are going, might move to a Dell Precision notebook for 32GB of RAM
On a regular basis I still use the SDXC slot on my MBP, dealing with dongles is pure insanity and ditching Magsafe which has saved many MBA/MBPs over the years is another stupid move. Lack of desktop refersh left me looking elsewhere. So far I've replaced my Mac mini(Sandy Bridge) with a Core i7 6700K and now my notebook direction is leaning elsewhere too.
Way things are going, might move to a Dell Precision notebook for 32GB of RAM
It seems people view thinness as a disease. I wholeheartedly disagree.
When I see the thinner phones, the thinner MacBook, I see the future. The future from the countless tv-shows and movies I've watched over the years where they use phones of computers of a variant that we aren't capable of making yet. The foldable phone from Westworld comes to mind. I want that. But we need even greater thinness to achieve that - with reasonable specs.
When I see the thinner phones, the thinner MacBook, I see the future. The future from the countless tv-shows and movies I've watched over the years where they use phones of computers of a variant that we aren't capable of making yet. The foldable phone from Westworld comes to mind. I want that. But we need even greater thinness to achieve that - with reasonable specs.
Again, I am not trolling. Please, if my facts are wrong point me in the right direction. I have yet to see evidence to the contrary where Kaby Lake as of right now beats the hell out of the current 15" processor. That was my argument before, then you stated TDP did not matter when it in fact does.
How can a $20 video card with no fan and only gets power from the PCIe bus require less power than a more powerful GTX 1080? More powerful hardware means the more power it needs to draw. We were comparing a 15w processor with a 45w processor.
Again, point me to something that proves me otherwise. How can I learn from my mistakes if I never see evidence?
Just regarding the Kabylake point, although the power isn't much greater - I do think the native TB3 and native 4K HEVC/HDR content playing capabilities are a very good upgrade. That is ignoring the fact that you'll get 30-60 minutes more battery life too.
There is video content that on a skylake CPU, it will use 100% of the CPU and give you a battery run time of 2-3 hours - while on the equivalent kabylake processor will run silently for 10+ hours. Netflix already has content gated to Kabylake CPU's only.
But I guess Apple couldn't wait any longer to release, people would have exploded.
Yes, all of that would be nice. I am not disputing there are advantages. I understand Apple's situation because there are no suitable Kaby Lake processors (at the time the product was available) ready for the 15". I do not expect them to have a Kaby Lake based 13" and a Skylake based 15".
And who knows, maybe they DID try that but had issues. Remember the Skylake issues the Surface Pro 4 had?
Two separate generations in two different products would cause a support nightmare. There are enough issues with the new systems, do you expect there would be fewer, or even the same amount of issues, if the 13" was Kaby Lake?
Oh yeah, like for my mid-2012 MBP I didn't need a dongle to connect a VGA cable, or a dongle to connect HDMI, or a one-use-only SD card slot with which I'd need an adapter for MicroSD, or a dongle USB modem if I wanted to do dial-up (idk why, but it exists), or the FW800 port that never caught on outside of Apple (and which isn't a very snug connector anyway), or the one-use-only MagSafe socket (which is great for safety but a drawback in every other way), or the disappearance of the ExpressCard slot (remember those? My 2007 15" had one)…
I could go on.
Like I've said much further back in this thread, we've been saying goodbye to large, single-purpose, proprietary ports and sockets over and over again for decades.
When's the last time you plugged in an ADB mouse? When's the last time you wiggled a wide ribbon cable into a PCI card? You don't really miss those things, do you?
We'll get as close as we've ever been to one port that does it all. It was the promise of USB nearly twenty years ago.
I could go on.
Like I've said much further back in this thread, we've been saying goodbye to large, single-purpose, proprietary ports and sockets over and over again for decades.
When's the last time you plugged in an ADB mouse? When's the last time you wiggled a wide ribbon cable into a PCI card? You don't really miss those things, do you?
We'll get as close as we've ever been to one port that does it all. It was the promise of USB nearly twenty years ago.
Yes I agree. I understand that USB-A will still be around. Hell, it will probably be around for another 20 years maybe. Does that mean we need to keep that port in laptops for 20 years? VGA is STILL around
There are brand new, $250 motherboards that still include USB 2.0 on them. And do you know what else those brand new motherboard have? USB-C.
I see thinness as "doesn't help me work faster".
Isn't that a bit self-contradicting?
"It's like a Star Trek computer... except that we're not there yet"
Way things are going, might move to a Dell Precision notebook for 32GB of RAM
*cough* surelyyoumeanthinkpad *cough* orzbook *cough*
I don't think people think thin is bad. But it's a matter of interdependable variables of form and function. If the function is to fit in your pocket thin is good. If it's to deliver number crunching ability maybe not so good. Maybe some products can be amazingly thin and other products just appropriately thin?
How thin does a desktop need to be? Maybe it's enough to have one paper thin laptop in the lineup?
When it comes against other important features such as battery capacity, a keyboard that doesn't suck or ports, then it's a disease. Like everyone I like things thin, but not to the cost of functionality, especially when the improvement is honestly minimal.
Not one person at my office could tell which laptops (13" 2015 vs 13" 2016) was heavier in all honesty, and one even thought the 2016 was heavier! So those 180grams you gained you really can't feel them (and I walk everyday to my work).
Thinness is really similar : Frankly it doesn't look smaller at first view.
If you put one on top of the other you will see it, but that's about it. At first view you likely won't notice the 2mm decrease in height, the 3mm in length, and MAYBE you'll notice you lost 10mm in width.
So yeah, not a good trade to functionality.
Indeed. Also TDP being about half of Skylake, you would have gotten much better battery and maybe a complete passive cooling like seen in some ultrabook.
I think they could have wait, they've just been cheap like they always are. The CPUs have been released today, it would have been wait, 2 months more of waiting ?
Also, they could have had Kaby Lake for the 13" and Skylake for the 15" if it really come to that ( like we had with Haswell / Broadwell IIRC ), but noooo that would be less bucks in the pocket, better to peddle outdated chips for everyone...
I joined this forum a while ago, but just within the past 4-5 weeks really scrutinized the threads. There are truly some key argumentative members that seem to me to thrive on being negative, and aren’t posting very useful arguments other than stroking their ego’s to be “right”. The world is full of them, and no matter what kind of forum you are on; those same kind of people seem to invest emotional time as opposed to just a good technical dialog. So it goes . . . I’ve learned to identify them and skim over their comments.
So the whole argument about these new computers not being professional is curious to me.
I'm a professional. (i.e. makes a very good living using Apple computers) I own a recording studio with my MacPro and (2) MBP's 2012, 2014. I just today received my tbMBP 2.9/2TB/460. I will be selling the older MBP’s. I will also easily sell those used two computers for $3,000 plus on eBay. Try that with the good lot of competitors.
I use my laptop for everything from FCPX, LR, PS, Steinberg Nuendo, Native Insturments, etc, etc. to running 2-3 Windows XP, 7, and 10 VM's on Parallels. I have propriety real-time automation software on the VM's as well as AutoDesk products all of which run perfectly. I have dongles for ENet, Firewire, HDMI, DVI, VGA in my bag of tricks. I make my living in both the audio/photo/video world and as an electrical engineering consultant.
I am totally enthused that Apple is moving to all USB C technology. For one reason, they're fast, super versatile, and leading edge, that’s my perspective. I have Thunderbolt 2 storage, TB 3 is yet another extension into greater bandwidth and I-O connectivity. No SD slot, so what; a $9 adapter in my bag and another on my desk solves that issue, albeit an additional 1.5 seconds of labor. I thrive on demonstrating to my clients that I have an edge on new technologies, it’s a HUGE selling point that creates a very good perception on my behalf from my customer base. I am well respected and known for being a technologist; people come to me with technical requirements as well as creative designs and inspiration. I switched to Apple in 2009 and to this day have never regretted it. I also use windows for AutoCad, Rockwell Automation software, and some specialized network analysis applications.
I have spent easily 30 hours plus reading about the new tbMBP’s. Watched at least 20 YT videos, and read good and bad reviews on the product. And when I say good and bad, I’m not just referring to the product, but also to the validity and verbosity of the reviewer. You know it’s just like the news; you have to learn to listen through the “noise” of the Internet and form your own opinion. As an engineer I was trained to look at as many possibilities as possible to find a solution. Some of that is technical expertise some of that is just “gray hair”.
Here's a great article that I liked, and for this I am sure there will be negatives on it, but most of you will like and appreciate it.
http://appleinsider.com/articles/16...onslaught-of-fake-news-and-failed-competitors
Anyhow, here’s another article from a user that demonstrates how 16GB works just fine for him. I can relate to that, it fits my bill, and I bet many others as well. I wish those that keep complaining would get off the threads and go find a community where those arguments do not exist, albeit there are surely others there.
https://www.zdziarski.com/blog/?p=6355
And yes I am sure someone will find a way to poo poo this guy too.
Regards,
A happy pro!
So the whole argument about these new computers not being professional is curious to me.
I'm a professional. (i.e. makes a very good living using Apple computers) I own a recording studio with my MacPro and (2) MBP's 2012, 2014. I just today received my tbMBP 2.9/2TB/460. I will be selling the older MBP’s. I will also easily sell those used two computers for $3,000 plus on eBay. Try that with the good lot of competitors.
I use my laptop for everything from FCPX, LR, PS, Steinberg Nuendo, Native Insturments, etc, etc. to running 2-3 Windows XP, 7, and 10 VM's on Parallels. I have propriety real-time automation software on the VM's as well as AutoDesk products all of which run perfectly. I have dongles for ENet, Firewire, HDMI, DVI, VGA in my bag of tricks. I make my living in both the audio/photo/video world and as an electrical engineering consultant.
I am totally enthused that Apple is moving to all USB C technology. For one reason, they're fast, super versatile, and leading edge, that’s my perspective. I have Thunderbolt 2 storage, TB 3 is yet another extension into greater bandwidth and I-O connectivity. No SD slot, so what; a $9 adapter in my bag and another on my desk solves that issue, albeit an additional 1.5 seconds of labor. I thrive on demonstrating to my clients that I have an edge on new technologies, it’s a HUGE selling point that creates a very good perception on my behalf from my customer base. I am well respected and known for being a technologist; people come to me with technical requirements as well as creative designs and inspiration. I switched to Apple in 2009 and to this day have never regretted it. I also use windows for AutoCad, Rockwell Automation software, and some specialized network analysis applications.
I have spent easily 30 hours plus reading about the new tbMBP’s. Watched at least 20 YT videos, and read good and bad reviews on the product. And when I say good and bad, I’m not just referring to the product, but also to the validity and verbosity of the reviewer. You know it’s just like the news; you have to learn to listen through the “noise” of the Internet and form your own opinion. As an engineer I was trained to look at as many possibilities as possible to find a solution. Some of that is technical expertise some of that is just “gray hair”.
Here's a great article that I liked, and for this I am sure there will be negatives on it, but most of you will like and appreciate it.
http://appleinsider.com/articles/16...onslaught-of-fake-news-and-failed-competitors
Anyhow, here’s another article from a user that demonstrates how 16GB works just fine for him. I can relate to that, it fits my bill, and I bet many others as well. I wish those that keep complaining would get off the threads and go find a community where those arguments do not exist, albeit there are surely others there.
https://www.zdziarski.com/blog/?p=6355
And yes I am sure someone will find a way to poo poo this guy too.
Regards,
A happy pro!
Well said! That has always been my stance. One professional's needs will not match every one elses. Fine, you are someone that needs 32GB of RAM on a laptop, there are products for you! You need 24GB of VRAM, there is a $5,000 Quadro card for you!
Just because these systems do not fit your needs does not make them less "Pro".
Of course they aren't.
The reason is simple: there is no such thing as a "professional" computer.
"Professional computer" is not a category of laptops.
You can't buy a "professional computer" anywhere.
You can, however, buy one of the following, mostly mutually exclusive, types of laptop:
- gaming laptop
- desktop replacement
- mobile workstation
- business laptop
- convertible
- ultraportable
- subnotebook (mostly dead thanks to tablets)
- netbook (ditto)
To be honest, I feel the problem is some people assume that the "Pro" in Macbook Pro means something.
It doesn't! It's just a marketing name!
"Pro" just means "beefier than regular Macbook", and signifies its place in the Apple lineup, which is as follows:
- Desktop replacement: MBP
- Ultraportable: 13' MBA and/or MB
- Subnotebook: 11' MBA
Which is why I used the carefully chosen phrase ". . curious to me". I agree with your comment, and you being a Vonnegut fan may have noticed my comment, "so it goes . . ."
BTW just setting up my tbMBP, you gotta love that new snappy feel on a virgin computer. We're all nuts . . but its so much fun!
BTW just setting up my tbMBP, you gotta love that new snappy feel on a virgin computer. We're all nuts
. . but its so much fun!
Which is why I used the carefully chosen phrase ". . curious to me". I agree with your comment, and you being a Vonnegut fan may have noticed my comment, "so it goes . . ."
BTW just setting up my tbMBP, you gotta love that new snappy feel on a virgin computer. We're all nuts
Oh, I didn't even notice. That was sneaky.
Enjoy your latest purchase!