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happy orchard

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jun 3, 2020
1,158
1,592
A lot of threads about why people are updating or not and why they’re excited or not, and I’m joining in and enjoying them. However, I keep feeling a little bit outside of the group and am wondering if anybody else is, too?

I’m one of those who has had physical/health problems with OLED screens. Each year I try them, they eventually bother/hurt me enough that I sell them. Repeat ad nauseam.

Before the X, I used to get excited every year about the new phones—Should I or should I not? Are the upgrades significant or not? And mostly just YAY! All the stuff on this forum right now. But now the bigger question for me: Is this year that I’ll finally be able to actually use the phone?!?!?

Do I want to try?

Do I want to look the other way?

Do I want to get excited and possibly frustrated once again?

Has Apple become Lucy to my Charlie Brown? (These phones are getting as big as footballs.)

So I’m debating: Hate to not try. That seems like giving up on dreams because some didn’t come true. And what about all those tired success stories that follow a bunch of failures. So try it, right? Or is it that cliched definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result? Should I just enjoy my 11 and leave well enough alone until my 11 dies? Should I give up the joy I found in this time of year I call Applemas?

I go back and forth. At this moment, I’m thinking try.

What about you? Do you have this debate? How does it play out for you?



(Please no comments about get a life, get over it, get your eyes checked. I’m not looking for advice or disparagement. I’m just wondering if there’s anybody else out there having a similar experience.)
 

Proteinaceous

macrumors regular
Dec 4, 2004
197
215
I’m in the same boat so I understand your dilemma. I have stopped getting excited for iPhone launches because it will likely just set me up for disappointment. For now, I am resigned to using my 11 unless I hear reports that Apple has solved the issue for folks like us.

Having said that, it is folks like you that I am relying on to give it a shot…so I will salute your efforts to take one for the OLED-sensitive team, try it out, and report back.

Thank you.

My bigger fear is Apple moving iPads to OLED. When that happens, I may have to consider leaving the Apple ecosystem altogether. :(
 
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Shirasaki

macrumors G5
May 16, 2015
14,751
9,560
Knowing apple, they will more likely never solve the pwm issue for folks sensitive to it at all because of how “small” this group of people is. I have yet to see major media coverage or high profile complaints about it, which is usually the best way to alert apple they are doing something wrong.

With that in mind, what I can see is similar folks would eventually get disappointed and move on to another device or another ecosystem. Unfortunately, more and more high end devices are OLED only, meaning they are not going to be eye friendly at all. It’s just sad.
 
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Proteinaceous

macrumors regular
Dec 4, 2004
197
215
Knowing apple, they will more likely never solve the pwm issue for folks sensitive to it at all because of how “small” this group of people is. I have yet to see major media coverage or high profile complaints about it, which is usually the best way to alert apple they are doing something wrong.

With that in mind, what I can see is similar folks would eventually get disappointed and move on to another device or another ecosystem. Unfortunately, more and more high end devices are OLED only, meaning they are not going to be eye friendly at all. It’s just sad.
I‘m not sure Apple will necessarily be proactive in trying to solve this issue either. But, I do hope that screen technology in general evolves such that the issue goes away. This could be OLED, micro/mini LED, or some other ”latest-and-greatest” screen technology with a significantly higher PWM frequency, or no PWM at all.
 

GrumpyMom

macrumors G5
Sep 11, 2014
12,105
19,665
Ugh I feel everything you’ve said, @happy orchard I’ve gone through this since the introduction of the first OLED iPhone.

A year or so ago I decided no, I’m not putting myself through this anymore. Sit down with my LCD phones and shut up.

But since then, I’ve had a LOT of death around me: Aunts, uncles, friends, in-laws, parents. Some of these losses were directly from the pandemic, but some were due to lack of healthcare access from the pandemic and others were just inevitable.

That sounds dark except…all of these people lived and laughed big to the very last moment. Their lives taught me to find and embrace joy every day. Overcome the challenges, learn from the disappointments, but don’t let that stuff take you down.

So, I live with what’s in front of me at the moment. Right now it’s wide open. Maybe this will be like the 12 Pro Max and I can use it. If so, wow, awesome! That possibility is worth getting excited over. It’s worth haunting the forums for rumors and watching the videos and reading the articles and tweets. It’s fun.

Especially since I’ve learned I don’t have to be the direct recipient of a benefit to take joy from it. There are so many people here excited to upgrade. I’m soaking in their excitement and happiness. It’s great to see. I love the energy. I love it when they get their new gadgets and post what they like and how much fun they’re having.

For myself, if the 14 Pro doesn’t work out, it’s wonderful I’ve still got my gorgeous green 11. I also got the little adorable SE 2022. There are rumors that there might be a new SE based on the iPhone XR. That phone was such a huge hit with the kids and their friends. I thought it was cute and fun too. If it comes to fruition I know I’ll be looking at it. No it’s not cutting edge tech. But I’m grateful I can use it.

That’s the key, gratitude. Everything I can have or do, I’m grateful for. Everything I can’t have or no longer do, I appreciate someone out there can. The more happy people out there, the better the overall environment is for the rest of us.

Lol of course it doesn’t all have to be about conspicuous consumption making people happy. But this is a forum about a consumer product so that’s how I’m framing my points. (However I want to clarify that I do have more depth to my existence than drooling over iPhones 🤣).
 

Tsepz

macrumors 601
Jan 24, 2013
4,700
4,479
Johannesburg, South Africa
A lot of threads about why people are updating or not and why they’re excited or not, and I’m joining in and enjoying them. However, I keep feeling a little bit outside of the group and am wondering if anybody else is, too?

I’m one of those who has had physical/health problems with OLED screens. Each year I try them, they eventually bother/hurt me enough that I sell them. Repeat ad nauseam.

Before the X, I used to get excited every year about the new phones—Should I or should I not? Are the upgrades significant or not? And mostly just YAY! All the stuff on this forum right now. But now the bigger question for me: Is this year that I’ll finally be able to actually use the phone?!?!?

Do I want to try?

Do I want to look the other way?

Do I want to get excited and possibly frustrated once again?

Has Apple become Lucy to my Charlie Brown? (These phones are getting as big as footballs.)

So I’m debating: Hate to not try. That seems like giving up on dreams because some didn’t come true. And what about all those tired success stories that follow a bunch of failures. So try it, right? Or is it that cliched definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result? Should I just enjoy my 11 and leave well enough alone until my 11 dies? Should I give up the joy I found in this time of year I call Applemas?

I go back and forth. At this moment, I’m thinking try.

What about you? Do you have this debate? How does it play out for you?



(Please no comments about get a life, get over it, get your eyes checked. I’m not looking for advice or disparagement. I’m just wondering if there’s anybody else out there having a similar experience.)
I’m surprised Apple have not put measures in for those who struggle with OLED, I know on my Androids since a few years ago some manufacturers put a feature where it reduces flicker etc…for those who suffer from the PWM. Sounds like Apple need to add something in Accessibility that allows lowering the flicker.

As for the size of the phones they don’t seem to be getting any smaller, I am shocked at how big the 13 Pro Max is, yes I am loving it but wow it’s really hitting the ceiling of what’s tolerable now. The 11 Pro Max and Xs Max seemed to be the sweet spot with their 6.5inch screens.

Since you already have an 11 I guess the SE is a no go for you as it’s a step back in Camera, Battery Life and some of the other stuff. Even next to a 2022 SE the 11 is better, IMO outside of the chip of course, then again the A13 Bionic is still a monster of a chip.
 

happy orchard

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jun 3, 2020
1,158
1,592
I’m in the same boat so I understand your dilemma. I have stopped getting excited for iPhone launches because it will likely just set me up for disappointment. For now, I am resigned to using my 11 unless I hear reports that Apple has solved the issue for folks like us.

Having said that, it is folks like you that I am relying on to give it a shot…so I will salute your efforts to take one for the OLED-sensitive team, try it out, and report back.

Thank you.

My bigger fear is Apple moving iPads to OLED. When that happens, I may have to consider leaving the Apple ecosystem altogether. :(
Yes I have that concern about i
I’m in the same boat so I understand your dilemma. I have stopped getting excited for iPhone launches because it will likely just set me up for disappointment. For now, I am resigned to using my 11 unless I hear reports that Apple has solved the issue for folks like us.

Having said that, it is folks like you that I am relying on to give it a shot…so I will salute your efforts to take one for the OLED-sensitive team, try it out, and report back.

Thank you.

My bigger fear is Apple moving iPads to OLED. When that happens, I may have to consider leaving the Apple ecosystem altogether. :(
Thanks for sharing and the support. :)

I have the concern about iPads going to OLED as well. All of my techie stuff is integrated so leaving the ecosystem kinda feels like leaving the planet, but we'll see. Wish us luck.
 

happy orchard

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jun 3, 2020
1,158
1,592
Ugh I feel everything you’ve said, @happy orchard I’ve gone through this since the introduction of the first OLED iPhone.

A year or so ago I decided no, I’m not putting myself through this anymore. Sit down with my LCD phones and shut up.

But since then, I’ve had a LOT of death around me: Aunts, uncles, friends, in-laws, parents. Some of these losses were directly from the pandemic, but some were due to lack of healthcare access from the pandemic and others were just inevitable.

That sounds dark except…all of these people lived and laughed big to the very last moment. Their lives taught me to find and embrace joy every day. Overcome the challenges, learn from the disappointments, but don’t let that stuff take you down.

So, I live with what’s in front of me at the moment. Right now it’s wide open. Maybe this will be like the 12 Pro Max and I can use it. If so, wow, awesome! That possibility is worth getting excited over. It’s worth haunting the forums for rumors and watching the videos and reading the articles and tweets. It’s fun.

Especially since I’ve learned I don’t have to be the direct recipient of a benefit to take joy from it. There are so many people here excited to upgrade. I’m soaking in their excitement and happiness. It’s great to see. I love the energy. I love it when they get their new gadgets and post what they like and how much fun they’re having.

For myself, if the 14 Pro doesn’t work out, it’s wonderful I’ve still got my gorgeous green 11. I also got the little adorable SE 2022. There are rumors that there might be a new SE based on the iPhone XR. That phone was such a huge hit with the kids and their friends. I thought it was cute and fun too. If it comes to fruition I know I’ll be looking at it. No it’s not cutting edge tech. But I’m grateful I can use it.

That’s the key, gratitude. Everything I can have or do, I’m grateful for. Everything I can’t have or no longer do, I appreciate someone out there can. The more happy people out there, the better the overall environment is for the rest of us.

Lol of course it doesn’t all have to be about conspicuous consumption making people happy. But this is a forum about a consumer product so that’s how I’m framing my points. (However I want to clarify that I do have more depth to my existence than drooling over iPhones 🤣).
Can I say 'ditto' without sounding glib?

I, too, have faced some intense bad in life and now live thinking (so many things really, but relevantly here) I'd rather try for good.
 

happy orchard

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jun 3, 2020
1,158
1,592
I’m surprised Apple have not put measures in for those who struggle with OLED, I know on my Androids since a few years ago some manufacturers put a feature where it reduces flicker etc…for those who suffer from the PWM. Sounds like Apple need to add something in Accessibility that allows lowering the flicker.

As for the size of the phones they don’t seem to be getting any smaller, I am shocked at how big the 13 Pro Max is, yes I am loving it but wow it’s really hitting the ceiling of what’s tolerable now. The 11 Pro Max and Xs Max seemed to be the sweet spot with their 6.5inch screens.

Since you already have an 11 I guess the SE is a no go for you as it’s a step back in Camera, Battery Life and some of the other stuff. Even next to a 2022 SE the 11 is better, IMO outside of the chip of course, then again the A13 Bionic is still a monster of a chip.
Yes, I've been surprised, too. The flicker was actually somewhat better in the 13 ProMax, so I appreciate that some effort seems to be being made. Hoping that eventually the efforts help enough.

As for the size, I joke about the football, but I actually like the bigger screen, which is one reason why I'd like to go from the 11 to the 14PM, but yeah maybe the football joke isn't that far off.

In the other direction of size, I do have an 8 for work, and I love the little all-white darling, but I don't feel like it's the best size for me to use all the time, so yeah, I'm less keen on the current SE. If they do make a new SE that's similar to the XR/11, I'll definitely be excited about a new chip.


...For now, the 11 is delightful. I guess I just miss what it was like to celebrate Christmas when I never questioned if Santa were real, just like I miss celebrating Applemas when I never wondered if a phone would hurt me.
 
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john g.

macrumors 6502
Jul 11, 2012
387
705
Yep, in the same boat. Likely sticking with my 11 for a while longer.

Though I would prefer an LCD version of the iPhone mini or the iPhone X size;
even if they took an 11 and put a new chip in it and added 5G and called it whatever, I'd be happy then as well.
 
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1BadManVan

macrumors demi-god
Dec 20, 2009
3,012
3,141
Bc Canada
Yep, in the same boat. Likely sticking with my 11 for a while longer.

Though I would prefer an LCD version of the iPhone mini or the iPhone X size;
even if they took an 11 and put a new chip in it and added 5G and called it whatever, I'd be happy then as well.
Rumour is the next se will adopt the iPhone XR body, so pretty close to the 11
 

Howyalikdemapls

macrumors 6502a
Sep 2, 2013
818
865
Right there with you. There was one comment on some Macrumors thread that suggested there may be an increase in the frequency or something… it didn’t make a lot of sense to me but there’s a slim glimmer of hope for us. I’ll still be watching the presentation but unless they announce they’ve addressed the issue I probably won’t pre-order. It took me over a year of doctors visits before I realized the iPhone X was causing my migraines and I had to buy an 11. I’m afraid I’ll make excuses with the 14Pro and lie to myself just so I’ll keep it but then be stuck suffering with migraines after the return window closes…

I just really hope they’ve done something to address the issue.
 
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happy orchard

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jun 3, 2020
1,158
1,592
Yep, in the same boat. Likely sticking with my 11 for a while longer.

Though I would prefer an LCD version of the iPhone mini or the iPhone X size;
even if they took an 11 and put a new chip in it and added 5G and called it whatever, I'd be happy then as well.
I have so often thought that!

…though to be honest, I’ve thought that for the big Max size, too.

Essentially, I’ve thought I would love to have used all the recently released phone sizes if they’d just had any of them in LCD. Still haven’t figured out why they don’t offer it: it would be cheaper to make, right?
 

Proteinaceous

macrumors regular
Dec 4, 2004
197
215
Yep, in the same boat. Likely sticking with my 11 for a while longer.

Though I would prefer an LCD version of the iPhone mini or the iPhone X size;
even if they took an 11 and put a new chip in it and added 5G and called it whatever, I'd be happy then as well.
An 11 with a new chip and 5g. That would work for me too. My current 11 is doing fine so I don’t need it at the moment. Maybe next year. Current SE is ok, but I am a big fan of FaceID so it would be difficult for me to go “backwards” on that. I’ve seen the rumors of Apple using the XR as a base for the next SE which would be unfortunate in the camera department. 11 camera(s) is much better.
 

Proteinaceous

macrumors regular
Dec 4, 2004
197
215
Right there with you. There was one comment on some Macrumors thread that suggested there may be an increase in the frequency or something… it didn’t make a lot of sense to me but there’s a slim glimmer of hope for us. I’ll still be watching the presentation but unless they announce they’ve addressed the issue I probably won’t pre-order. It took me over a year of doctors visits before I realized the iPhone X was causing my migraines and I had to buy an 11. I’m afraid I’ll make excuses with the 14Pro and lie to myself just so I’ll keep it but then be stuck suffering with migraines after the return window closes…

I just really hope they’ve done something to address the issue.
I’m so sorry to hear it took a year to figure that out. How miserable. :(

I think I saw the same comment you are referring to. I’ll believe it when I see it. ;)
 

smoking monkey

macrumors 68020
Mar 5, 2008
2,322
1,446
I HUNGER
I’ll still be watching the presentation but unless they announce they’ve addressed the issue I probably won’t pre-order.
I doubt Apple will ever publicly comment on the issue as that will mean there is an issue with previous phones. If they do something about it, it'll be silently done or just noted in the tech press or forums after the phone is released. That's just my opinion though. I could be wrong.
 

GrumpyMom

macrumors G5
Sep 11, 2014
12,105
19,665
An 11 with a new chip and 5g. That would work for me too. My current 11 is doing fine so I don’t need it at the moment. Maybe next year. Current SE is ok, but I am a big fan of FaceID so it would be difficult for me to go “backwards” on that. I’ve seen the rumors of Apple using the XR as a base for the next SE which would be unfortunate in the camera department. 11 camera(s) is much better.
They’ve worked wonders with the camera on the current SE. I have both the SE 2022 and the iPhone 11.

My worry is that Apple might again deny the next SE the necessary NFC hardware to work with AirDrop and AirTags. I’m hoping if they use the larger XR chassis for the new SE, that they will this time include that hardware as it’s kind of necessary to feel “current”. At least for me. I use AirDrop a lot with friends and family. It’s such a fast way to share a batch of photos without setting up a shared photo album. And I do like my AirTags but it’s frustrating I can’t use them with my newer iPhone.

Before I got my iPhone 11 for Christmas, I briefly had a 64 gb iPhone XR. It was sent to us free by AT&T to replace my late mother-in-law’s iPhone, which was no longer going to work with existing networks. She passed away before the pandemic and I guess my husband never got around to canceling her line. So I took it and fell back in love with the Xr.

Originally I’d had a yellow one with a very bright glaring display. This one had a more soothing display. I really wanted to keep it but 64 gb is really constraining for me. I traded it in for the SE 2022 while it still had really good trade in value.

My husband got me the iPhone 11. The camera was a significant improvement. But I’m not against going back to the Xr form factor and single lens if they can make it as good as what I’ve had with my SE 2022. It rarely takes a bad photo.

I just can’t freeze a cicada flying at me in mid air like I could on my 12 mini. Those kinds of shots just aren’t in reach on these cameras based on older tech. I made my peace with that.
 

happy orchard

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jun 3, 2020
1,158
1,592
They’ve worked wonders with the camera on the current SE. I have both the SE 2022 and the iPhone 11.

My worry is that Apple might again deny the next SE the necessary NFC hardware to work with AirDrop and AirTags. I’m hoping if they use the larger XR chassis for the new SE, that they will this time include that hardware as it’s kind of necessary to feel “current”. At least for me. I use AirDrop a lot with friends and family. It’s such a fast way to share a batch of photos without setting up a shared photo album. And I do like my AirTags but it’s frustrating I can’t use them with my newer iPhone.

Before I got my iPhone 11 for Christmas, I briefly had a 64 gb iPhone XR. It was sent to us free by AT&T to replace my late mother-in-law’s iPhone, which was no longer going to work with existing networks. She passed away before the pandemic and I guess my husband never got around to canceling her line. So I took it and fell back in love with the Xr.

Originally I’d had a yellow one with a very bright glaring display. This one had a more soothing display. I really wanted to keep it but 64 gb is really constraining for me. I traded it in for the SE 2022 while it still had really good trade in value.

My husband got me the iPhone 11. The camera was a significant improvement. But I’m not against going back to the Xr form factor and single lens if they can make it as good as what I’ve had with my SE 2022. It rarely takes a bad photo.

I just can’t freeze a cicada flying at me in mid air like I could on my 12 mini. Those kinds of shots just aren’t in reach on these cameras based on older tech. I made my peace with that.
Love it! That’s how we need to describe it: I want a camera good enough that I can freeze a flying cicada with it!
 
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Dealmans

Suspended
Mar 12, 2022
1,405
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Never come across anyone with this issue outside of this forum, no friends or family, not saying it’s not real, but gotta be a eye issue, otherwise everyone would suffer from it.
 

Howyalikdemapls

macrumors 6502a
Sep 2, 2013
818
865
Never come across anyone with this issue outside of this forum, no friends or family, not saying it’s not real, but gotta be an eye issue, otherwise everyone would suffer from it.
I don’t know anyone else IRL who suffers from it besides me.

To be fair, I do have horrible eyes - itchy, dry, red, “meaty”, and my pupils are crazy large that I take a prescription eye drops just so I can keep my eyes open enough to see. I had a dilation procedure done a few years ago and ever since then my pupils have been stupid big. I read another guy who said he had an eye issue but once it was diagnosed and treated he didn’t get migraines from OLED anymore.

I suspect there are several reasons that can make people more susceptible to migraines from OLED displays.
 
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GrumpyMom

macrumors G5
Sep 11, 2014
12,105
19,665
Never come across anyone with this issue outside of this forum, no friends or family, not saying it’s not real, but gotta be a eye issue, otherwise everyone would suffer from it.
It may be an eye issue for some of us. But I’ve had my eyes thoroughly checked out multiple times and doc has ruled out an eye problem.

For me it’s a neurological thing. I was diagnosed with atypical migraines years before OLED displays came out. Besides pwm, I’ve identified plenty of other triggers over the years that fortunately are easily avoided.

For example, I used to have a problem with soy of any kind, but that seems to no longer be a problem anymore. Soy contains plant estrogens and hormonal triggers are known to be an issue for some women at some stages of life. I’m now a few years past menopause (which is when my migraines were most easily triggered) so I guess that’s why I can now eat soy based foods again.

So it’s really not that mysterious. For many people, pulse width modulation is simply a migraine trigger. Most people think of migraines as a really bad headache but in reality the manifestations are much more broad than that and can include seizure type events, dizziness, digestive problems and a whole host of other problems that you wouldn’t normally associate with the word “migraine.”

I think a lot of people actually ARE suffering adverse effects from some of their OLED devices. But because the symptoms are not directly related to visual discomfort, they may not know they’re suffering from pwm sensitivity.

And some people may be fine with one OLED display but not another. If they’ve been using an iPhone X for several years with no problem and then upgrade to an iPhone 12 and start having problems, they’re not automatically going to blame the phone. They may start with other factors in their life.

Of the multitudes of people who own iPhones, how many of them regularly read tech forums? I don’t know ANYONE who reads this forum at all, let alone regularly.

From being here for several years I see many people come in around new product releases, but they don’t stay past the time it takes to complain they got a cat pee yellow display or whatever the complaint of the year is.

My husband works in the tech industry and only barely skims the articles here, on occasion, when he has the time. He certainly doesn’t do deep dive into forum topics as obscure as this subject.

So we may know many people who are having some form of pwm sensitivity but who would never identify it as such. They’re going to just think they’re tired or stressed or sick or something else. They’re not going to connect it to their smartphone use.

And even if they suspect, some people are so addicted to their smartphone they’re going to go into hard denial or just push on. My husband and I have a friend who finally admitted a couple of years ago he was suffering pwm sensitivity, but he said he didn’t care and nothing was keeping him from the Pro Max phones.
 

Proteinaceous

macrumors regular
Dec 4, 2004
197
215
Never come across anyone with this issue outside of this forum, no friends or family, not saying it’s not real, but gotta be a eye issue, otherwise everyone would suffer from it.
I haven’t come across anyone with this either outside of this forum. If by “issue” you mean pathology, I have no idea. I have some astigmatism and wear glasses, but I get my eyes examined regularly and don’t have any other known eye issues. I’ve never experienced any other photosensitivities; I don’t have an issue with LED bulbs (which flicker) or even low-refresh-rate CRT computer displays from back in the 80’s (yes, I’m dating myself ;)).

I suspect this is just natural human variation…we are all wired a little differently and some people‘s senses are more more/less sensitive than others. Some people can hear very high frequencies; others can’t. Some people have a high pain tolerance; other’s don’t. Some people are “super tasters”; other’s aren’t. Some people are sensitive to this flickering/PWM at the wavelength range used in Apple’s OLED displays; other’s aren’t.

I’ve wondered if many other people are actually sensitive to this, but at different frequency ranges. Maybe Apple will one day change the frequency range such that those of us currently having issues no longer have issues…but a whole new group of folks start complaining. I also wonder how many folks are sensitive to this and just don’t realize it. Case in point, it took Howyalikdemapls a year before they were able to figure it out.
 

john g.

macrumors 6502
Jul 11, 2012
387
705
Imagine if you could select screen details the way you chose storage and other options?

For example:

Choose screen size:

* 5.4 inch display [iPhone mini]

* 5.7 inch display [iPhone X]

* 6.1 inch display [iPhone 14]

* 6.7 inch display [max models]

Choose screen technology:

* Liquid Retina LCD display

* Super Retina OLED display

_________________________________________

I know it will never happen, but it's a nice thought.
 
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