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Some points of Leopard have not struck me they way I wanted them to. I have had a few issues with things here and there and have to stick with 10.5.0 for the time being, but really, looking back I think it has been the better of any OS X releases. My G4 went from OS 9.2/OS X 10.1 to 10.4, each step along the way was more issue prone then the 10.5 upgrade.

I have not had any issues with my MBP or my Mac Pro. No one can make a perfect product. I still believe that Apples QA only allows a small margin of error.
 
Statistically, Apple is quite good with regard to QA. When you look at the research, Apple consistently is near or at the top of all manufacturers with regard to both equipment failures and customer service post-sale.

Anecdotally, Apple is either poor or great or just OK. That's the nature of individual persons in a population. For my part, I've done OK. I had a G3 iBook with the famed logic board issue but the problem didn't manifest itself until after Apple had already figured out the solution. I had a 12" PowerBook that had a battery problem and the hard drive died the day before AppleCare expired (I had a backup and three years before a hard drive failure isn't TOO bad). My MacBook Pro has, as of yet, no problems (and I didn't bother with AppleCare this time). Obviously Apple is just OK.

None of my dad's macs have ever had a hardware issue. Obviously Macs are perfect.

You see the problem with extrapolating your personal experience to the population as a whole. Be reasonable and look at the research. All that you can do is make a decision based on the expected value of your action.
 
while it's clear Leopard was not ready for release and is top heavy and loaded with features for the sake of having features rather than the embracing the traditional simplicity that makes OSX such a joy to use, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I use XP boxes at work that crash twice a day running one program. WM5 crashes my Treo once or twice a day, too. You'd have to go back to DOS to find an industry standard OS as mature and stable as XP, and it still blows.

I've been pissed at Leopard, too, but a good deal of my impatience stems from how high my standards are for Apple. if this were MS software I'd expect it and worse.
 
While those for whom it doesn't "just work" have entirely justifiable complaints, I must add that, having waited till 10.5.1 to upgrade from Tiger, I have had no issues whatever with Leopard - and I always have my Dock at the side, so the Stacks "fan" doesn't even operate, which is great.
 
I actually like Stacks... so far at least. There are two small Photoshop files I access frequently using Stacks. It saves a little bit of time and energy, as the files I need are right there, and I don't have to trudge around looking for them.
 
Research? Where did you find it?

Apple consistently tops Consumer Reports' research, or comes in a close second behind Lenovo. You'll have to Google it, as CR requires a subscription to its articles (and I'm not paying $26 just to win a forum debate :p). There was also a recent study done by a third-party technical support company that found Macs had the fewest support calls by market share. http://www.macnn.com/articles/07/10/23/apple.tops.reliability/
 
I did an upgrade-install of Leopard on my Macbook, and have not had any problems at all as of yet.*knocks on wood* Also did an upgrade from Panther to Leopard on my wife's PPC Mini. No problems there either. I love Leopard so far, better than Tiger, and I would have never thought that possible.
 
Good people
I think that many of you are missing the point. Is my MBP more reliable than my wife's HP? Yes.
Is it more reliable than my kitchen sink. No.
That's not me invoking the comparison.
It's Apple.

More to the point, I've owned Apples for five years. My iMac has been almost as worry-free as my sink. My ibook had lots of parts replaced under AppleCare, which seems to be par for the course for laptops, but most of the failures didn't sideline the machine, and the OS was rock solid.

Again, I'm not comparing my new $2,000 machine to a $2,000 Lenovo. I'm comparing it to my old Ibook which is worth $100 now.

And I'll bet that this five-year old G3 could replace my MBP and go days without crashing. Before you say that's what I should do, understand that the machine's five years old, and it's gone surprisingly long without "breaking its hip" on the hardware side, out of warranty.

I'll note that most of you who are talking about their rock-solid Macs are using older machines. I was that guy until a month ago.

Perhaps you should call Apple Care and tell them what's happening. You could have just gotten a dud, again. As well, Leopard is relatively new, give Apple some time to work out the kinks. I can tell you that both my Macs are stable as can be.

I did call Apple Care. On the DOB machine, I spent six hours on the phone with Tech Support and Sales Support just convincing them that it was broken before they'd replace it. When I called about the problem with the migration, I spent an hour with the first tech, who was nowhere near understanding the problem when we got cut off (a power failure on my end.)

I spent another hour and a half with the second phone tech, who literally could not understand the problem, before she went off to find someone who could, left me on hold for a half hour and then hung up on me. No call back.
I finally drove 25 miles to the Apple Store, hauling my imac in the rain, and
to his credit, the genius figured out the solution to this relatively simple problem.

I'm not even going to go into the smaller problems that were successfully troubleshot (?) here at Macrumors as recently as yesterday. Do you think there's a DeWalt Cordless Drill Forum for contractors hoping to get their tools to work?

Right now, this machine *sorta* works. It doesn't have the yellow screen problem or any of the assorted MBP niggles I've heard about here. I'm working on a book (which reminds me...) so I don't really have the time to spend another workday trying to maybe, possibly hope to get a machine that doesn't crash so much, and end up with a machine that's much worse (like that first one that wouldn't even load the hardware test disc.)

Maybe the next Leopard software update will fix it. And maybe Michael Moore will be Mike Huckabee's vice-presidential candidate.

Steve, I'm waiting.

I feel a t-shirt coming on.

I Just Work. My Mac? Not So Much.

Happy Holidays,
Allen
 
IME if a mac is crashing there is something seriously wrong with it, either a fresh OS instal will fix it or it's a hardware fault.

You can't expect magical hardware that never glitches, the best you can is an OS that doesn't fall over by it's own accord which OS X very very rarely does.
 
More to the point, I've owned Apples for five years. My iMac has been almost as worry-free as my sink. My ibook had lots of parts replaced under AppleCare, which seems to be par for the course for laptops, but most of the failures didn't sideline the machine, and the OS was rock solid.

I've owned Apples for fifteen years and while they've certainly not been trouble-free, any one of them was in service for more in years than all of them collectively were out of service by the same number of days.
 
And this is why I'm hoping 10.5.2 will be a cure for most ills. My MBP... *knock on wood* ... does not crash, but is a tad sluggish with Leopard compared to Tiger. Startup is much longer than it used to be. Icons on the desktop have to change during start-up (a la Windows 98). This has caused me to delay my G5 "upgrade" to Leopard. Tiger works just fine on it.
 
im with you

since leopard i have become at odds with my IMac. I play online games WOW included which made a mac possible since it works with mac. Cant try any of the others so that a problem . Lost my boot camp installing Leopard and well I'm gonna throw this thing on Ebay and go back to a PC. At least I know what to do when there is a problem.
I never should have been an early adopter of Leopard
 
How did you install Leopard? Anecdotally, it seems to be becoming clear that clean installs, and archive and installs may give the best results. While I'm not totally in love with it, Leopard has been very stable on my MBP.

I just have to ask... why is it always "becoming clear" that upgrade installs are always gambles? This has been clear since Jaguar that a clean (or archive 'n' install) is the best route.

Yet people discuss this as if this is new information after every OS release.
 
Upgrade installs leave behind your 3rd party software that is not compatible with Leopard. That junkware makes something go wrong, and you end up blaming Apple.
 
Upgrade installs leave behind your 3rd party software that is not compatible with Leopard. That junkware makes something go wrong, and you end up blaming Apple.

If upgrade installs are a problem, then why does Apple allow that as an option? Maybe it should be available as an "advanced feature" (like selecting import quality on Itunes).

If they're enabling, and even encouraging users to follow an upgrade path that leads to an unstable OS, then Apple is at fault.

Remember, they're comparing their products to a toaster. I don't need to have read Larousse Gastronomique to use my toaster.

And while this info about upgrade installs may be common knowledge to the sophisticated users here, it's not among 95 percent of mac users.

It Just Works. Sometimes.

Allen
 
After having nothing but issues with Leopard over three Macs, it's back to Tiger for me.

It's very disappointing, and makes those "downgraded to XP" commercials are the more hard to swallow.
 
well i haven't had all the issues with leopard that some people seem to be having. i admit that it's not perfect, but i've had it up for over 10 days with no problems
 
I've owned Apples for fifteen years and while they've certainly not been trouble-free, any one of them was in service for more in years than all of them collectively were out of service by the same number of days.

I've had even fewer problems and owned Macs since '96. I never had a problem I couldn't fix on my own.
 
So basically my Winodws Xp crashed once in 6 years.....and I didnt even get the blue screen of death
 
I've had no problems with any of my Macs or iPods. I broke my Apple keyboard by accident whereas my MS mouse has always been a bit dodgy :eek:

Just a bit of bad luck maybe?

The reason I switched to Macs was because of their good hardware track record, not something that developed later.
 
I myself love leopard, I never felt the need to go back to Tiger unlike i find myself with VIsta. I have had a few problems with Leopard but that all went away after i updated it.
 
An update:
Maybe three's the charm. After untold hours of unsuccessful troubleshooting and an intervention by Apple corporate, my Apple store replaced my second MBP with a third new machine. (I spent six hours--yes, *six* hours at the Genius Bar yesterday.)
This time I didn't do the Leopard upgrade, and so far, so good.
Not a glitch in several hours of work on Tiger (shame what happened at the SF Zoo...) and once i upgraded to Safari 3, there wasn't anything I missed from Leopard, except possibly Time Machine.
I'll probably eventually upgrade to Leopard, but for the moment it's nice to have a machine that just works so that I can too.
(He says with crossed fingers.)

best
Allen
 
99% of Macs just work. The 1% that don't work are owned by the people who whine in this forum.

I don't agree.

I love my Apple computers, but the three I've owned prior to my current MacBook all had unexplained hard drive failures that cost me all of my data.

I've had frustration from the Windows PCs I've owned and used but never a hard drive failure or a loss of data.
 
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