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Italy Fining Apple 10M Euros for 'Dishonest Commercial Practices' Related to iPhone Throttling

dialogos

macrumors regular
Sep 22, 2017
140
159
Who is the “us” you refer to? Apple should have replaced the battery, bad on them, but I would not have thrown $$$ to a new phone so fast. However we are all different and now you’re blaming Apple, for your decision and why the car analogy. Admit the decision to upgrade was on you and Apple admittedly could have done better.

With 250 million customers of Apple I’m sure there are bound to differing opinions, especially in an online forum where at times hyperbole reigns supreme.

Nope sorry I'm not going to admit to something like that. We have totally different opinions. Maybe you need to understand the needs of professionals who don't have time to spend solving problems.

Let's agree to disagree but you should stop blaming customers. Your attitude is at least rude to customers talking to them as naives who shouldn't be talking about the almighty apple
 
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LordVic

macrumors 603
Sep 7, 2011
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How much did they benefit financially?

What a complete disingenous comment and question.

1 phone sold for $750 instead of a battery sold for $80 is financial benefit, Regardless of the scale / size of that.

And we already know this happened to more than one person.

the fine of 10m isn't meant to recoup that financial loss to the users, but as a punishment to apple for deceiving it's users. The purpose of a punishment is to disuade Apple from performing this activity in the future.
 
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I7guy

macrumors Penryn
Nov 30, 2013
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Gotta be in it to win it
What a complete disingenous comment and question.
It’s disingenuous due to the hyperbolic nature of the comment.

1 phone sold for $750 instead of a battery sold for $80 is financial benefit, Regardless of the scale / size of that.
So what’s the pattern? Or is this hypothetical. Did Apple put a gun to anybody’s head to pull money out of their wallet?

And we already know this happened to more than one person.
So you making some assumptions about “more than one person” from the 200 million Apple customers?

the fine of 10m isn't meant to recoup that financial loss to the users, but as a punishment to apple for deceiving it's users. The purpose of a punishment is to disuade Apple from performing this activity in the future.
Ok. I’m sure Apple learned “its lesson”. Yes they could have handled this better, but that doesn’t translate into deceit.
 
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KPandian1

macrumors 65816
Oct 22, 2013
1,493
2,428
What a complete disingenous comment and question.

This discussion has reached "trolling" level - has done so several pages back. I would stop responding to this person's post. Facts and real history of the events will not dissuade these people.

The punishment is a grain of sand for Apple, but a precedent has been set. Will Apple do this foolish thing again - yes. The consequences will be more severe if and when other countries or class-action suits are filed in the future.
 
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ChrisChaval

macrumors 6502a
Aug 30, 2016
592
510
Milan, Italy
Beofre bashing my country, you should bash this company for their practices, the political issue we might have or not have have nothing to do with how a company acts (one does not justify the other).

Can't believe how low some poeple would go to defend Apple, yes it is a great company, but when they srew up they should get called out for, and I am glad Italy did the right thing!

Wash your mouth before you talk about my country!

****Off topic: ****

Thank you for standing up for Italy

A beautiful country with lots of beautiful people

Sure, there is a lot to be fixed (e.g. bridges) but a whole lot more to be admired

Go Italy, go
 
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KPandian1

macrumors 65816
Oct 22, 2013
1,493
2,428
Apple Italy just gave my sister in law a brand new iPhone 6+ replacement for a battery recall they had in place.
VERY dishonest, Italy that is, ...

This is the crime Apple is accused of all over the world - not just any single location.

Not a nice diversion to attack Italy - that is just plain trolling!
 
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I7guy

macrumors Penryn
Nov 30, 2013
24,218
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Gotta be in it to win it
This discussion has reached "trolling" level - has done so several pages back. I would stop responding to this person's post. Facts and real history of the events will not dissuade these people.

The punishment is a grain of sand for Apple, but a precedent has been set. Will Apple do this foolish thing again - yes. The consequences will be more severe if and when other countries or class-action suits are filed in the future.
Whatever are you referring to?

Are there not two sides? Or if you are not-anti-Apple you should be prohibited from posting?

https://macrumors.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/sections/200275117-Forum-Rules?mobile_site=true
 
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Unimpossible

macrumors member
Jun 1, 2018
56
29
This was not planned obsolescence. Mobile hardware sees tremendous gains on a yearly basis. Operating systems, apps and the web do not remain stagnant. They require more speed, more RAM as we integrate 4K video and higher quality assets. Web standards keep evolving and older hardware just cannot keep up. Could an iPhone 5S/6 perform better than they do if they had been equipped with double the RAM? Probably but 1GB was good enough for IOS 8-10. Apple ensures excellent performance for 2-3 upgrades until they have to move on.

Apple also gets criticized for soldered RAM on the MBPs. The reason it was soldered is because LPDDR3 is not available in DIMMs, only DDR3 and DDR3L are which are completely different. LPDDR3 only consumes 10% of the power in standby and DDR3L is not capable of running at 2133 MHz. Soldered components also increase reliability.
But as I said. They should stop much sooner with the updates. Not make the last supported version basically cripple the device. Just the task of making the keyboard appear is so slow and laggy it’s useless. Not to talk about everything else slowing down, even internel on the devices itself.

So yeah, planned obsolescence, in plain sight.
[doublepost=1540574621][/doublepost]
Apple has its edge because of the reliability of its products, hardware and software synergy and reputation for quality. They support their products for the longest period - in all consumer electronics, especially with security updates! Compare that to Office.

That said, when they started "throttling" the devices with depleted batteries with software updates, they knew that the issue was the hardware - here a battery that needed changing. A simple announcement would've taken care of the issue. Even if they made a significant profit on the battery replacement, that would've been cheaper to tenth or or even twentieth the cost of the new replacement iPhones people started buying.

That is a major hit on their honesty reputation. This was at a time when the audio jack was a major pain for a lot of people.

So, they should NOT stop their great support.

Your second question is moot.
Great support is not supporting devices with obligatory updated until they are so slow they become useless.
And it’s not about everything else becoming so technically advanced they can’t keep up either.
 
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Jmausmuc

macrumors 6502a
Oct 13, 2014
716
1,259
Yeah, Italy made the wrong decision. Operating Systems become more resource heavy as technology advances and faster hardware and more RAM go into new phones to take that into account.

Its just the way technology works. Thats why eventually they stop supporting new IOS versions on older phones. Not for "planned obsolescence", but because the older hardware just plain CANT HANDLE IT!

And as for the batteries, what do you prefer? a phone that slows down slightly to prevent unexpected shutdowns? Or a phone that shuts itself off randomly making you think its broken and have to replace it?

The situation is actually worse for Apple if they DONT slow the phones down.

Can’t believe anyone upvoted this.

There was always the option to throttle the phones and show a notification. Instead the phones were throttled without telling anyone about it, in my 6Ses case, just a year after purchase.
[doublepost=1540574823][/doublepost]
Where did they lie? It was noted in the update that no one reads what it was doing, just not in explicit detail. The alternative was stupid, recognize the aging battery caused spikes killing old devices, but do nothing, meaning they get to sell you a new one. They chose to extend the life of the device by predicting the damaging spikes and decreasing conditions to minimize the spikes.

Offering the cheap battery replacements on devices several years out of warranty was a nice gesture that showed it was not a software issue but instead a old battery.

LOL, my 6S was throttled just about one year after purchase. Not exactly an old battery...
 
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decafjava

macrumors 68040
Feb 7, 2011
3,525
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Geneva
Can’t believe anyone upvoted this.

There was always the option to throttle the phones and show a notification. Instead the phones were throttled without telling anyone about it, in my 6Ses case, just a year after purchase.
[doublepost=1540574823][/doublepost]

LOL, my 6S was throttled just about one year after purchase. Not exactly an old battery...

Well battery wear is a function of cycles and not just age.
 
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ChrisChaval

macrumors 6502a
Aug 30, 2016
592
510
Milan, Italy
Can’t believe anyone upvoted this.

There was always the option to throttle the phones and show a notification. Instead the phones were throttled without telling anyone about it, in my 6Ses case, just a year after purchase.
[doublepost=1540574823][/doublepost]

LOL, my 6S was throttled just about one year after purchase. Not exactly an old battery...

right, right, right

this whole point back then was only about apple not telling us, the beloved (and sometimes squeezed) customer (from wherever you are) in just time

Mr. Cook knows very well: happy customers are returning customers

with what they did back then they surely did not endorse that philosophy
 
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I7guy

macrumors Penryn
Nov 30, 2013
24,218
12,396
Gotta be in it to win it
But as I said. They should stop much sooner with the updates. Not make the last supported version basically cripple the device. Just the task of making the keyboard appear is so slow and laggy it’s useless. Not to talk about everything else slowing down, even internel on the devices itself.

So yeah, planned obsolescence, in plain sight.
[doublepost=1540574621][/doublepost]
Great support is not supporting devices with obligatory updated until they are so slow they become useless.
And it’s not about everything else becoming so technically advanced they can’t keep up either.
So iOS 12 is the very essence of “planned obsolescence “?
 
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KPandian1

macrumors 65816
Oct 22, 2013
1,493
2,428
They should stop much sooner with the updates. Not make the last supported version basically cripple the device. Just the task of making the keyboard appear is so slow and laggy it’s useless.

Great support is not supporting devices with obligatory updated until they are so slow they become useless.
And it’s not about everything else becoming so technically advanced they can’t keep up either.

Devices from iPhone 5s are showing to date that they can handle iOS 12 - no dispute there. My family iPhones are 5s and on, 6s, SE. All of them are handling 12 well, didn't do so well with 11. So, nothing wrong with the devices - just their power source - Apple exploited that and got caught with their pants down, by their own admission.

It is easy to say what great support is not, even if it makes no sense.

Why not spell out what exactly great support is, per your definition?

Since the battery issue, Apple has done well by its older products - all their 64-bit portables. Lesson learned, no need to nickel and dime the customer.

Are there not two sides? Or if you are not-anti-Apple you should be prohibited from posting?

Yes, there are multiple facets - and most people have posted their love for Apple and their frustration with their handling of the battery fiasco.

I personally have posted praise for Apple, and criticism of many of their moves.

Trolls are transparent, immediately or eventually, and are for or against Apple. Even in this issue.

There is no planned obsolescence of entire devices - definitely not even close when compared to its main rivals or any hardware and software company. The only the analog audio jack!

So iOS 12 is the very essence of “planned obsolescence “?

Pay attention - iOS 12 is the very opposite of obsolescence. Start making sense.

Trolling is not your strong suit. Please stop.
 
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I7guy

macrumors Penryn
Nov 30, 2013
24,218
12,396
Gotta be in it to win it
Devices from iPhone 5s are showing to date that they can handle iOS 12 - no dispute there. My family iPhones are 5s and on, 6s, SE. All of them are handling 12 well, didn't do so well with 11. So, nothing wrong with the devices - just their power source - Apple exploited that and got caught with their pants down, by their own admission.
Okay, they made a minor mistake. They have made many mistakes over the years. All companies make mistakes.

Yes, there are multiple facets - and most people have posted their love for Apple and their frustration with their handling of the battery fiasco.

I personally have posted praise for Apple, and criticism of many of their moves.

Trolls are transparent, immediately or eventually, and are for or against Apple. Even in this issue.

There is no planned obsolescence of entire devices - definitely not even close when compared to its main rivals or any hardware and software company. The only the analog audio jack!



Pay attention - iOS 12 is the very opposite of obsolescence. Start making sense.

Trolling is not your strong suit. Please stop.
Thank you for acknowledging trolling is not my strong suit. I speak my mind and stay within forum rules, and don’t throw ad-Homs. Tough **** if someone doesn’t like what I post.
 
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lec0rsaire

macrumors 68000
Feb 23, 2017
1,514
1,441
But as I said. They should stop much sooner with the updates. Not make the last supported version basically cripple the device. Just the task of making the keyboard appear is so slow and laggy it’s useless. Not to talk about everything else slowing down, even internel on the devices itself.

I haven’t seen an iPhone really get crippled since iPhone 3G on 4.2.1. That was unusable. What people complain about with iPhone 5/5s/6 is nothing compared to that. They will not perform like an A9 or newer but they’re all still very usable.
 
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Unimpossible

macrumors member
Jun 1, 2018
56
29
So iOS 12 is the very essence of “planned obsolescence “?
iOS 12 shows, what we knew already, that it is possible not to cripple older devices.
But just wait, it’ll come.
[doublepost=1540666795][/doublepost]
I haven’t seen an iPhone really get crippled since iPhone 3G on 4.2.1. That was unusable. What people complain about with iPhone 5/5s/6 is nothing compared to that. They will not perform like an A9 or newer but they’re all still very usable.
Not since iPhone 3G? Right...

But try an older iPad. Or are are they exempt?
 
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lec0rsaire

macrumors 68000
Feb 23, 2017
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Not since iPhone 3G? Right...

But try an older iPad. Or are are they exempt?

Yes. I still have a 32GB iPad 2 3G+WiFi and on 9.3.5 it is still usable. Of course the 512MB RAM makes browsing on certain pages miserable today since the pages will keep reloading but the performance is nowhere as bad as it was with iOS 4.0-4.2.1 on the 3G. And that same iPad on 9.0-9.3.5 performed much better in 2015-2016. The web requires more resources every single year and only so much can be expected of an A5 chip. The A5 was a monster when it launched. One of the best Apple ever designed but it is now 7 years old and that’s a lifetime in the mobile world.

When I mean crippled. I mean crippled. Not just slower. For example my old iPad Air and iPhone 6 are much slower than my iPhone 7 Plus but they are both still very usable. The iPhone 6 more so since the A8 is much stronger than the A7. The A8 powers my ATV4 after all albeit with 2GB RAM. If the A8 had an extra gig it would very be close to A9 performance.
 
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I7guy

macrumors Penryn
Nov 30, 2013
24,218
12,396
Gotta be in it to win it
iOS 12 shows, what we knew already, that it is possible not to cripple older devices.
But just wait, it’ll come.
There's a difference between crippling and not having an optimized o/s that doesn't perform well. The iphone models 5s, 6s and above, imo, didn't have an issue with any operating system through 11. It's the iphone 6 that was most affected. I can't speak to any ipad as the only one I have and am still using is an ipad 2.
 
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0989382

Suspended
Jan 11, 2018
527
378
Maybe you really need some "screwing" ...Consider it as euphemism....

I apologize to the rest of macrumors users.
[doublepost=1540493827][/doublepost]

So you're laughing because Apple is so rich that can easily pay any fine? Just need to understand your laugh here.

It is a small amount, but a good first step. All Apple had to say was, "please buy new batteries for your iPhones".


Guys, guys, I was laughing at the European Union (EU) itself. And how poor the Euro currency is vs virtually everything else lol
 
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Ralfi

macrumors 68040
Dec 22, 2016
3,712
2,410
Australia
They're all the same - Apple, Samsung...you're not superior for using one over the other. You hear that, fanbois who like to put others down for owning a phone by a company you hate...
 
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Jmausmuc

macrumors 6502a
Oct 13, 2014
716
1,259
Well battery wear is a function of cycles and not just age.

I don’t know how many cycles it had when it was first throttled but it was less than a year old and only my secondary (private) phone next to my work phone.

My current iPhone X is just as old as my 6S was when it got throttled and was definitely used mich more (use it as privat and work phone).

So while I agree that all batteries deteriorate with age and cycles, the 6S (at least mine) seems to have had a particularly bad battery.
 
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