ITC Staff Side With Nokia Regarding Apple's Patent Claims

[MacRumors]

Nokia and Apple, which have been involved in a patent dispute for over a year that has seen both parties file lawsuits and U.S. International Trade Commission (ITC) complaints against each other, are finally headed to a courtroom after ITC staff issued a memo supporting Nokia in its defense against Apple's claims, Bloomberg reports.

"The evidence will not establish a violation" of Apple patent rights, the staff, which acts on behalf of the public as a third party in the case, said in a pre-hearing memo released yesterday. Apple is asking the ITC to block imports of Nokia phones into the U.S., claiming they are infringing four patents.

In their examination of the case, ITC staff determined that certain aspects of Apple's patents cited in the lawsuit should be found invalid, while other patents have not been infringed by Nokia's devices.

A decision from ITC Administrative Law Judge Charles Bullock is due in February, and while he is not required to follow the advice of ITC staff, their findings will clearly carry significant weight in the case.

The ITC has yet to take a position in Nokia's suit against Apple, which is scheduled to go to trial at the end of this month.

Related federal court cases covering the patent dispute have been on hold since March of this year pending the outcome of these ITC lawsuits.

 

[LanPhantom]

And the SAGA Continues

This will never end....

 

[res1233]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8B117 Safari/6531.22.7)

[wishful thinking] just fire all the lawyers [/wishful thinking]

 

[cohibadad]

Block all Nokia imports? That's a good one. What a messed up system we have.

 

[marco114]

can anyone imagine trying to develop a new/better phone? With all the patent disputes, you'd never make it as a newbie.

Marc

 

[cmaier]

Apple has got a problem that is going to get expensive for it.

 

[iDisk]

ITC is losing their focus

ITC clearly is misguided. Though in the end Apple will prove victorious.

- Bruce

 

[dongmin]

Score 1 for Nokia

Round 1 to Nokia.

But this will be a 15-round bout, at least.

 

[skate71290]

Block all Nokia phone imports... apple seriously, the largest handset manufacturer in the world.... Dumbasses!

 

[WildCowboy]

For those who are unaware, a request to block imports is standard operating procedure for ITC complaints, as it's the primary tool the agency has to encourage settlements.

The ITC tends to move more quickly than federal lawsuits, and with the power to block imports, they have the muscle to force companies to settle their disputes.

So while the threat of blocking imports is there, these disputes almost never reach that point.

 

[KnightWRX]

ITC clearly is misguided. Though in the end Apple will prove victorious.

- Bruce

In the end, Apple will pay Nokia for the GSM patent licenses it owes, like every other industry player does. There's no going around it.

This was their leverage in their settlement negotiations, it just backfired on them. Remember kids, this was the "me too!" move after Nokia filed with the ITC first and the patent claims were just thrown together in a bid to get some leverage where there is none.

A few UI patents vs the core functionality of the phone ?

Denial is claiming Apple will be victorious. They don't even question they need to pay Nokia, the only problem in negotiations that led to this lawsuit was the price.

So while the threat of blocking imports is there, these disputes almost never reach that point.

Exactly, the ITC won't grant Nokia's motion to block imports either, but their memorandum might give Nokia additional weight in court if they reaffirm their patents (which shouldn't even be a question considering the patents in question).

 

[ChrisA]

ITC staff determined that certain aspects of Apple's patents cited in the lawsuit should be found invalid,...

whish this would happen more. Many of those patents are just silly stupid. They say in effect "do what people have been doing for 1,000 years but, do it with a computer". What would happen if Ford on 1910 patented going to work in the morning but use a car to get there."

I agree Apple should be able to patent a device for tracking where a person's finger is pointing but NOT the idea of using a finger to point to some object.

 

[OllyW]

ITC clearly is misguided.

Why, because they haven't sided with Apple?

How dare they.

 

[drewyboy]

We have to remember here that it's not as simple as just paying a license for GSM from Nokia. If I call correctly, the huge dispute is that Nokia wants a fee from every iPhone sold, where as w/ all other license's, Nokia is only asking for a flat fee regardless of handsets sold. This is a pretty rotten move by Nokia only because of Apple's success in the mobile market. Nokia shouldn't be allowed to do this, and if Nokia offers a flat fee regardless of handsets sold, Apple should just eat it and settle then because Nokia's claim on the license I think it completely legit.

 

[KnightWRX]

We have to remember here that it's not as simple as just paying a license for GSM from Nokia. If I call correctly, the huge dispute is that Nokia was a fee from every iPhone sold, where as w/ all other license's, Nokia is only asking for a flat fee regardless of handsets sold. This is a pretty rotten move by Nokia only because of Apple's success in the mobile market. Nokia shouldn't be allowed to do this, and if Nokia offers a flat fee regardless of handsets sold, Apple should just eat it and settle then.

Nokia is asking for different terms from Apple because Apple has not contributed to the GSM patent pool as much as other players. Apple asked for many different forms of payment, some including patent cross-licensing deals, others pure cash, and Apple wants the same terms as everyone because of FRAND but doesn't contribute as much (what's fair about that ?).

The issue is cost, no one is being overly greedy. Apple are pulling on their side, Nokia is pulling on theres, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

It's sickening that people will paint Nokia as the bad only because Apple is involved. When Apple pulls the same stunts, they are "protecting their IP!" and when Nokia does it "Greedy! Failing company!"

 

[Matti]

A few UI patents vs the core functionality of the phone ?

Actually Apple hasn't really used the iPhone patents against Nokia. It's mostly basic computing and object oriented programming related patents. (IIRC) only one of the patents Apple used against Nokia was a so called "iPhone patent".

 

[drewyboy]

Nokia is asking for different terms from Apple because Apple has not contributed to the GSM patent pool as much as other players. Apple asked for many different forms of payment, some including patent cross-licensing deals, others pure cash, and Apple wants the same terms as everyone because of FRAND but doesn't contribute as much (what's fair about that ?).

The issue is cost, no one is being overly greedy. Apple are pulling on their side, Nokia is pulling on theres, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

It's sickening that people will paint Nokia as the bad only because Apple is involved. When Apple pulls the same stunts, they are "protecting their IP!" and when Nokia does it "Greedy! Failing company!"

I didn't mean to come across as an apple is always right. A corporation is a corporation and they all do some pretty shady stuff, and Apple is definitely no exception. Thanks for the info though, because of what I had read, just made it seem like Nokia was offering Apple different terms than all the rest "just because". It makes more sense though will the whole pool contributions etc. I am on the side the I think Nokia should be paid, but how much is the big question. I think an overall lump sum would be more "fair" than a per handset. The reason why, is more a just because with a per handset makes it feel more like a patent troll kind of thing. You know, wait to see if they are successful then take them for all their worth and get in on their success once they've proven that it's a good product. I know that in the end, apple might have to pay lump sum for product here on out and a slice of each iphone sold to date, that might a good way to do it to teach apple a lesson that when you're bringing a new product out, you need to have your ducks in a row, which it seems apple tends to "just do it and ask for forgiveness later". Just like the recent iPad trademarks in other countries.

 

[lilo777]

In their examination of the case, ITC staff determined that certain aspects of Apple's patents cited in the lawsuit should be found invalid...

And this might have interesting implications for other Apple's lawsuits against HTC, Motorola and whoever else they are suing.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

I want to know what patents Apple had declared invalid. I would not be surprised if those invalid claims are some of the same patents they were trying to use against HTC.

 

[alent1234]

Nokia is asking for different terms from Apple because Apple has not contributed to the GSM patent pool as much as other players. Apple asked for many different forms of payment, some including patent cross-licensing deals, others pure cash, and Apple wants the same terms as everyone because of FRAND but doesn't contribute as much (what's fair about that ?).

The issue is cost, no one is being overly greedy. Apple are pulling on their side, Nokia is pulling on theres, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

It's sickening that people will paint Nokia as the bad only because Apple is involved. When Apple pulls the same stunts, they are "protecting their IP!" and when Nokia does it "Greedy! Failing company!"

now that apple's first fiscal year with the new revenue recognition model is over i'm sure they will make nice with nokia and GSM and pay up

 

[kdarling]

We have to remember here that it's not as simple as just paying a license for GSM from Nokia. If I call correctly, the huge dispute is that Nokia wants a fee from every iPhone sold, ....

Everyone pays GSM license fees on a per-handset basis. No other calculation method would make sense, as there are both small and large manufacturers.

Moreover, GSM fees are traditionally based on the retail price of each handset. This was designed to encourage production of inexpensive handsets for developing countries, and to promote GSM usage. (GSM didn't get popular because it was superior; it got popular because it was cheaper.)

Fees also depend on each company's contribution to the GSM patent pool. Apple has nothing like that to give, and objects to sharing their smartphone-related patents (which is understandable).

The upshot is, Apple knows they owe a per-handset fee, along with possibly even higher fines for waiting so long to pay them. The only question is how much, so Nokia asked for an American jury in Delaware to decide the amounts. Sounds pretty fair.

As noted above, the ITC disputes are a separate move companies use to put pressure on for a quick resolution.

 

[SR2]

ITC clearly is misguided. Though in the end Apple will prove victorious.

- Bruce

You're a fag Bruce, from now on you will be refered to as "Gay Bruce", you poor misguided faggit. An Apple fanboy making accusations of misguided is so ironic. Try spending less time sucking Apples dick ya fag.

 

[kirk26]

Block all Nokia imports? That's a good one. What a messed up system we have.

I've never seen a good Nokia phone, ever.

 

[cmaier]

In the end, Apple will pay Nokia for the GSM patent licenses it owes, like every other industry player does. There's no going around it.

True.

Nokia is asking for different terms from Apple because Apple has not contributed to the GSM patent pool as much as other players.

Not true.

 

[aristotle]

Here is the biggest problem with Nokia's claims and their request for contributions to the "pool".

Nokia is laying claims against not just the iPhone but the iPod Touch and other non-phone technology and they also are trying to pressure Apple into contributing non-phone related technology into the pool.

If you take out the code for the phone radio, the phone radio chips and the SIM slot, you are left with an iPod Touch basically and expecting Apple to give up exclusivity of that technology unfair.

The iPod Touch is not covered by Nokia's patents.