It's almost 2016, I can't wait for Google/Android to stop being awful

[gotluck]

I wish android would finally fix the update situation. I never knew how awesome the BIOS system & window's bloated 10gb installation was (which facilitates the direct updates from microsoft) until I saw android's update situation 😛 (where each and every device has to be 'done by hand' so to speak by the oem with specific device drivers built into the rom)

right now we see such a variance of issues between devices where one device has one issue and one has another which I feel like we dont see with other operating systems. Sure the skins are probably a good bit of the blame here too

 

[Tsepz]

May have something to do with the fact that it is only pushing 1080p even though it's a 4k screen so it isn't as taxing on the gpu.

The regular Z5 has a 1080P display, only Z5P has 4K

 

[mrex]

My first answer is security updates. Secondly, no one needs an OS update. But does it make your phone better? Really depends on the phone and the OS update. ... There are so many other great features that just become a part of your daily life and you couldn't live without them once you use them.... My personal opinion is having the latest and greatest is always better... Which is why I would never, ever buy outside of the Nexus line again.

you dont need the newest os to get security patches which are released for older os aswell. it is another thing how often manufacturers release them and how many... and i dont mean only android, but ios too.

the latest os isnt always the best for the phone you have. for example abilitity to use newer ios version on your iphone doesnt mean that it is anyway better than it was with the older version. same goes with android devices. some new features are also depending on hw too. if the new os has a feature x, it doesnt mean that you can get that feature x to work on your old phone.

when you buy an android device, you get it with the os it has. that's all. there are no mention anywhere that the manufacturer promises that they will release the newer os for that device. why should they even do that? only google has this so called 18months policy for nexus devices because nexus is googles guinea pig. so if you want to get the latest cool new features for free, buy only nexus devices.

Why samsung or anyone should offer the new os for free? you can always argue that apple does it, but you have certainly paid a good money for that. it is abit differend to expect to get a longer support for a phone that cost alot than a phone that cost halve of it.

asking "android" to fix something so that you can get it for free is abit peculiar. people dont want to pay more, but they are still expecting to get updates for free.

 

[Surf Donkey]

when you buy an android device, you get it with the os it has. that's all. there are no mention anywhere that the manufacturer promises that they will release the newer os for that device. why should they even do that?

Why samsung or anyone should offer the new os for free? you can always argue that apple does it, but you have certainly paid a good money for that. it is abit differend to expect to get a longer support for a phone that cost alot than a phone that cost halve of it.

asking "android" to fix something so that you can get it for free is abit peculiar. people dont want to pay more, but they are still expecting to get updates for free.

That is a very strange way of looking at operating system support (especially one that is open source). I am not sure how to even respond.

 

[Michael Goff]

That is a very strange way of looking at operating system support (especially one that is open source). I am not sure how to even respond.

It's always interesting to find consumers that are adamantly anti consumer. There's almost never a way to respond to them.

 

[mrex]

That is a very strange way of looking at operating system support (especially one that is open source). I am not sure how to even respond.

not really... open or close, think about just three differend situations:


iPhone:
hw manufactured by apple
os manufactured by apple
updates provided by apple

Nexus:
hw "manufactured" by google
os manufactured by google
updates provided by google

while apple is providing updates for iphone so it is google providing updates for nexus.



then you can buy an android phone from a 3rd party manufacturer like samsung.

Android from Samsung:
hw manufactured by Samsung
os provided by google, forked by Samsung (atleast)
updates provided by samsung after google has released them

the difference here is that while google and apple are providing updates for their own devices, there are no such quarantees from 3rd party manufacturers.

 

[Surf Donkey]

not really... open or close, think about just three differend situations:


iPhone:
hw manufactured by apple
os manufactured by apple
updates provided by apple

Nexus:
hw "manufactured" by google
os manufactured by google
updates provided by google

while apple is providing updates for iphone so it is google providing updates for nexus.



then you can buy an android phone from a 3rd party manufacturer like samsung.

Android from Samsung:
hw manufactured by Samsung
os provided by google, forked by Samsung (atleast)
updates provided by samsung after google has released them

the difference here is that while google and apple are providing updates for their own devices, there are no such quarantees from 3rd party manufacturers.

Dude, we will never see eye-to-eye on this. I don't need to be told the basics for how Android and iOS are distributed. I have worked in the mobile industry for 20+ years.

I could care less what it is forked from. If you distribute the OS you, you own it, and you owe it to your consumers to provide timely updates, and very quick fixes to urgent security issues.

But, I will say, at the same time some manufacturers will do as little as they can to keep profits high as possibile. So if people want to keep buying Samsung knowing they will get the bare minimum OS support, then hey, more power to them. I still can't see how anyone argues that is healthy for the mobile ecosystem, but keep beating that drum.

 

[mrex]

I could care less what it is forked from. If you distribute the OS you, you own it, and you owe it to your consumers to provide timely updates, and very quick fixes to urgent security issues. ... I still can't see how anyone argues that is healthy for the mobile ecosystem, but keep beating that drum.

even apple doesnt offer security fixes urgent althought it has only few models to update. have you checked how many unfixed vulnerabilities there are in ios?

did i say that this thing is somehow healthy, good or even bad for a mobile ecosystem? no i didnt. and even with apple you dont know many ios version your phone is getting. and when apple is providing updates, when is it enough and apple doesnt owe you anymore?

when you have bought a new computer from dell for example, they surely hasnt given new windows for free for you when microsoft released them. why should e.g. samsung offer new android os either when google releases it? just because you want something, it doesnt mean that manufacturers owe you anything.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

Dude, we will never see eye-to-eye on this. I don't need to be told the basics for how Android and iOS are distributed. I have worked in the mobile industry for 20+ years.

I could care less what it is forked from. If you distribute the OS you, you own it, and you owe it to your consumers to provide timely updates, and very quick fixes to urgent security issues.

But, I will say, at the same time some manufacturers will do as little as they can to keep profits high as possibile. So if people want to keep buying Samsung knowing they will get the bare minimum OS support, then hey, more power to them. I still can't see how anyone argues that is healthy for the mobile ecosystem, but keep beating that drum.

I agree when talking about incremental updates, that focus on security, bugs, and background improvements. But nowadays, as long as you have a flagship phone, those upgrades come quickly even if carrier branded.

But if you're talking about major version updates, I disagree. Nobody should buy a Android phone with the an expected guarantee or timeline of receiving the next version of Android OS as an update. I plan on getting the S7 Edge asap, and will expect to be on Marshmallow for the majority of my usage. I don't expect my S6 Edge to update from Lollipop to Marshmallow until probably a week before or after the S7 Edge releases, and won't be disappointed if it never does.

You still got the majority of Android users on KitKat, and I bet most don't have any issues with that. Manufacturers and carriers do not owe the minority of users that care about updates, guaranteed complete version updates. But I will admit, those minority of users are the most vocal, and can make or break their reputation. So they do have to step their full version update game up.

 

[Surf Donkey]

when you have bought a new computer from dell for example, they surely hasnt given new windows for free for you when microsoft released them.

Actually they do.... see Windows 10.
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But if you're talking about major version updates, I disagree. Nobody should buy a Android phone with the an expected guarantee or timeline of receiving the next version of Android OS as an update.

That is very sad that the manufacturers have conditioned you to think this way for Android. I Why can't Samsung upgrade all their phones to the same revision like Google and Apple? Trim down their lineup and provide better support. It is pure laziness and money grab on their part to upgrade to the next phone.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

Actually they do.... see Windows 10.

Windows 10 is not free. It's only a free upgrade for recognized PCs. And for a limited amount of time.

That is very sad that the manufacturers have conditioned you to think this way for Android. I Why can't Samsung upgrade all their phones to the same revision like Google and Apple? Trim down their lineup and provide better support. It is pure laziness and money grab on their part to upgrade to the next phone.

I think it's the other way around ........ you let Apple condition you to think you are owed full OS version upgrades.

I been dealing with that since Windows Mobile days. HTC, Palm, and other manufacturers, and carriers, were exactly the same when it came to Windows Mobile.

Some of my old Blackberry phone didn't even upgrade a complete version, their OS was proprietary, and they designed their own hardware. Just like Apple. They did allow carrier bloat though.

Do I think manufacturers and carriers should work to provide full version upgrades and longer support of it? Sure I do. But you still have to realize iOS and iPhone is a completely differ monster than Android and the differ number of manufacturer skins, and hardware.

iOS upgrades are very streamlined according to the incremental progress of iOS device hardware. With Android, you have both Google, manufacturers, and carriers throwing stuff at it, and then there is the extremely wide contrast of specs.

 

[AustinIllini]

Windows 10 is not free. It's only a free upgrade for recognized PCs. And for a limited amount of time.

Exactly. To install it, you already had to have bought a Windows license.

 

[Surf Donkey]

Windows 10 is not free. It's only a free upgrade for recognized PCs. And for a limited amount of time.

Ah, yeah it is free, when you have Windows, like the situation of the question I was answering. They said if you get a computer from Dell (which has Windows on it) you don't get a Windows upgrade for free. And the answer is yes, you do. You get Windows 10 upgrades for free.

And we have no idea what Microsoft has planned for future upgrades past July 2016. Will Windows 11, 12, 13 be free? Dunno yet, so can't really speculate on that scenario.
[doublepost=1454542347][/doublepost]

Do I think manufacturers and carriers should work to provide full version upgrades and longer support of it? Sure I do. But you still have to realize iOS and iPhone is a completely differ monster than Android and the differ number of manufacturer skins, and hardware.

All I am saying is consumers need to push for their manufacturers to provide better updates. The whole point of this thread. Unless you have a Nexus, Android is a mess (especially with Samsung). If you are happy buying a phone that will never get future updates, then all good, it is your money. I am super happy there are options out there. Because my Samsung experiences have been awful.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

Ah, yeah it is free, when you have Windows, like the situation of the question I was answering. They said if you get a computer from Dell (which has Windows on it) you don't get a Windows upgrade for free. And the answer is yes, you do. You get Windows 10 upgrades for free.

And we have no idea what Microsoft has planned for future upgrades past July 2016. Will Windows 11, 12, 13 be free? Dunno yet, so can't really speculate on that scenario.

Again, not ALL computers are eligible for multiple reasons. And again, it's for a limited time. Manufacturers have nothing to do with it, which is why if you do a clean install you'll have to go and manually install specific drivers that Windows doesn't detect. Same with pre-loaded software.

Official firmwares for Android are not the same. They have to be tailored to the hardware. There's no one size fits all Android ROM that you can load onto any Android phone.

All I am saying is consumers need to push for their manufacturers to provide better updates. The whole point of this thread. Unless you have a Nexus, Android updating is a mess (especially with Samsung). If you are happy buying a phone that will never get future updates, then all good, it is your money. I am super happy there are options out there. Because my Samsung experiences have been awful.

Samsung nowadays, is not bad when it comes to updates. Incremental updates have been good. But they should focus on bringing new version upgrades quicker. That would benefit their reputation. I've noticed Samsung and Carriers have been improving on that within the last two years.

 

[Surf Donkey]

Again, not ALL computers are eligible for multiple reasons. And again, it's for a limited time. Manufacturers have nothing to do with it, which is why if you do a clean install you'll have to go and manually install specific drivers that Windows doesn't detect. Same with pre-loaded software.

You continue to veer away from what I was responding to with the OP. If you bought a computer from Dell in the last 4 years, you did get Windows upgrades to 10 for free. And again, you have no idea if MS will offer Windows 11 for free as well.

when you have bought a new computer from dell for example, they surely hasnt given new windows for free for you when microsoft released them.

I 100% agree this has nothing to do with Android, Dell or the topic at hand. I was just responding to them on this point.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

You continue to veer away from what I was responding to with the OP. If you bought a computer from Dell in the last 4 years, you did get Windows upgrades to 10 for free. And again, you have no idea if MS will offer Windows 11 for free as well.

But you completely ignored the difference I pointed out from Windows desktop OS and Android Firmware.

Official firmwares for Android are not the same. They have to be tailored to the hardware. There's no one size fits all Android ROM that you can load onto any Android phone.

 

[Surf Donkey]

But you completely ignored the difference I pointed out from Windows desktop OS and Android Firmware.

I agree with you 100% on that I said. Totally different.

Which is why Samsung should get their **** together and actually dedicate more people to making Android updates and future versions work for their phones quickly, trim down their offerings to something manageable or get out of the software business. Or go back to that ****** Tizen OS they are making.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

I agree with you 100% on that I said. Totally different.

Which is why Samsung should get their **** together and actually dedicate more people to making Android updates and future versions work for their phones quickly, trim down their offerings to something manageable or get out of the software business. Or go back to that ****** Tizen OS they are making.

Well, I'll never expect Samsung updates to equal that of Apple's iPhone. But I don't mind. Reason being is, Android gets most of it's core apps updated and some added features without the need of a firmware update. And there are some TW updates or added features that can be side loaded without the need to root.

My personal usage of a phone is about a year, so I'm not really that concerned with receiving full version updates. And even if full version updates came asap, I wouldn't update until my apps updated to be compatible.

Most people that keep there phones longer than a year, don't care or know about what the latest Android version is.

I feel like the whole update issue is only a issue when compared to Apple. Cause there is nothing else to compare it to. All other manufacturers of phones are the same, whether it runs on Android, WP, or BB. Even Nexus updates roll out a bit staggered.

 

[Truefan31]

Lol at some making excuses for android oems not getting timely updates. It's a sore point for many but I guess there's always a twist that can be made on anything.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

Lol at some making excuses for android oems not getting timely updates. It's a sore point for many but I guess there's always a twist that can be made on anything.

Excuses? No, it's reality.

If for whatever reason you care about having every single iOS device getting updated at the same exact time, stick with iOS. I personally will not sacrifice everything Android and manufacturers have to offer, because I can't instantly update to the latest firmware version number.

 

[Truefan31]

Excuses? No, it's reality.

If for whatever reason you care about having every single iOS device getting updated at the same exact time, stick with iOS. I personally will not sacrifice everything Android and manufacturers have to offer, because I can't instantly update to the latest firmware version number.

The issue isn't instantly updating once the firmware version released its having the availability. Depending on the oem you have and the handset, it can be staggered. It still presents fragmentation issues across the entire android platform. I understand you seemingly don't mind but as an entirety of all android across the board I hope you can see the issues.

 

[macfacts]

The people that care most about updates on Android are iOS fans ...

Yeah Apple hardware gets updates quick but the apps take _for_ever_ to get updates to take advantage of new OS features.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

The issue isn't instantly updating once the firmware version released its having the availability. Depending on the oem you have and the handset, it can be staggered. It still presents fragmentation issues across the entire android platform. I understand you seemingly don't mind but as an entirety of all android across the board I hope you can see the issues.

My point is, that was actually considered the norm before the iPhone. And if iOS was available on other smartphones, the updates would be in the same situation.
[doublepost=1454563004][/doublepost]

The people that care most about updates on Android are iOS fans

True .... LOL

 

[mrex]

Actually they do.... see Windows 10.

That is the reason i used "have bought/released". Win10 was the only one i got "free" between versions win3.1-win8/win10. Had to buy few windows during these years...

It still presents fragmentation issues across the entire android platform.

Gapps are updated via Playstore, no needs for the os update. If we then think about the user: how the fragmentation affects the user and what excatly is the issue?

 

[Michael Goff]

The people that care most about updates on Android are iOS fans ...

Yeah Apple hardware gets updates quick but the apps take _for_ever_ to get updates to take advantage of new OS features.

Maybe some of them are iOS users because of the update issue ...