To be fair, Android is not moving to RCS. Google is moving to Google RCS and some Android handsets support it, but not most of them. SMS/MMS is still FAR more available worldwide than Google RCS. And SMS is available on every phone, including dumb phones. Google Messages RCS is not.
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'It's Time for Apple to Fix Texting' Says New Android Website Pushing RCS Messaging Technology
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That’s exactly what I’m getting at. What Google is asking for is Apple to adopt Google RCS. It may as well be asking them to adopt Google Talk, or Allo, or Hangouts, or whatever - it isn’t the RCS people think it is; the name is misleading and the “push” they are making is dubious. It’s just yet another proprietary system.
The vast majority of Android phones do support Google RCS though. The Messages app can be downloaded by all, but for people who don't even SMS/MMS why would they ever bother? The bigger problem is tying RCS with Google RCS. If this was just about RCS and all the carriers had already turned on support for RCS, then it's a no brainer for Apple to turn on RCS the same way they support standard network features like SMS and MMS. This whole problem of RCS adoption got worse when Google singlehandedly decided to intervene and roll out its own RCS. On one hand it enabled RCS on basically all Android phones, but on the other hand it tied its on proprietary / non-standard RCS into the whole RCS landscape, making it hard for anyone else to adopt it.
Had Google stuck to a non cell carrier/phone subscription messaging service like a standard mobile messenger, or heck even Hangouts/Chat, Apple would have no problem supporting those--they're standard apps on the App Store today already. Asking Apple to rewrite cellular messaging functionality in their OS to support a non-standard Google RCS is obviously going to be a problem.
Google probably knows this but is gambling that using the marketing of attacking Apple may potentially pay off.
No, they absolutely know that it won’t pay off. It’s not even the longest of long shots, it is a no shot. Maybe, they know that trying to get the message to Android users that “Google RCS that’s as good as iMessage is here!” wouldn’t be rebroadcasted by any and every website quite as much as “Apple needs to fix texting!”
It could be that the end goal is just informing Android users about Google RCS, but, even when trying to get the word out on their own thing, they know it’s better to tie it to Apple in some way!
It's this simple, Apple could choose to improve the text messaging experience for iPhone users by supporting RCS. Instead, they choose not to. There is nothing more to say about it.
There is no advantage that current sms/mms has on the iPhone over RCS.
There is no advantage that current sms/mms has on the iPhone over RCS.
It’s even simpler than that, Google could choose to open their Google RCS API allowing developers to build in interoperability. They choose not to. There’s nothing more to say about it.
And sms/mms can, right now, be sent to WAY more phones than RCS. Including the dumb phones still in use. RCS can’t.
SMS / MMS can be a fall back option for RCS no?
Please tell me a single other advantage that SMS/MMS has over Apple supporting RCS.
No, RCS would have to be supported by the carriers, and interoperate between all carriers just like with SMS/MMS in order to be any kind of in-line fallback on iOS. With the way Google RCS has been implemented, it would be a separate app on iOS. And, since carriers are not going to support RCS and Google’s not going to open up their implementation, RCS as an interoperable cross platform way to connect devices, even if one assumes that every phone is a smartphone, is dead.
Google RCS does not allow a user to connect to every other service using RCS out there, it ONLY connects to other Google RCS users.
Yeah - this is a great big non-issue here IMO.....(now if there was some sort of standard that would let one log in through the web to send texts to iMessage users and others, I'd be all for that)
I think Google’s total is actually 13 apps. No sane company would follow Google in messaging.
The fact that SMS can work with just about any phone and actually is interoperable between carriers globally. It could be a cheap Chinese Android phone limited to Android 4 and SMS would still work as a fallback. It could be a feature phone and SMS would work as a fallback. RCS only works with people whose carrier has a Jibe gateway or people using Google Messages (and Google Messages people can’t send RCS messages to people whose carrier has a Jibe gateway). RCS isn’t interoperable between gateways, that’s why RCS is a non-starter as a fallback mechanism.
I think you might be right about this. Realistically, Apple is not interested in and can’t implement RCS and get the features Google is associating with RCS (some of which are exclusive to Google Messenger, like encryption). I suspect Google’s angle is actually more about telling Android users “RCS is as good as iMessage”, as well as deflection for their own (self-caused) failure in messaging (“we didn’t drop the ball on messaging, we have a forward path and that’s RCS, but Apple’s failure to adopt RCS is dropping the ball on messaging” and “messaging on Android in the US won’t suck when Apple supports RCS”). They need to present RCS as though it’s a forward path, even though it’s just another OTT messaging system (that they could certainly bring [but haven’t yet brought] to iOS).
You are wrong.
This is how RCS works (oversimplification)
Carriers implement their own RCS or just use the standard Universal Profile; US carriers have decided to default to use Google's implementation as of 2022 but also support Universal Profile. (2020 outdated list)
The carriers connect to RCS Interconnect Hubs just like how SMS and MMS have interconnected hubs, that is how you are able to receive text messages from people on different network operators. Major SMS/MMS Hub operators like GMS, Mavenir, etc, also have RCS Hubs.
3rd Party Hubs operated by different companies connect with one another and client messaging apps connect to the hub. This is where Google comes in the picture.
Google's Jibe Hub connects to and works with every other Hub. You don't need to use Google's implementation of RCS to work with Google, they also support RCS Universal Profile.
Wrong again
This is how Apple will support RCS.
Apple Message App with RCS Universal Profile - Apple's or 3rd-Party IMS - Apple's or 3rd Party RCS Hub which connects to any 3rd-Party or Jibe Hub.
As long as you connect to one hub then you are automatically connected to every hub that is connected in the RCS network, the same way SMS works. You do not need to connect to Google's Jibe hub directly. Any feature added to the Universal Profile will be supported.
At no point does Google need to provide Apple with APIs or Touch iOS for Apple to support RCS.
Apple can implement RCS. You are right about one thing, only Google - Google messages support e2e encryption which is the only feature Google has that Universal profile does not. But it's a matter of time before the Universal Profile gets updated to support e2e encryption.
It's not a matter of if but when. Apple has engaged the GSMA about implementing RCS dating far back to 2019, but they sure are dragging their feet. I could speculate and say perhaps apple is waiting for e2e encryption to be added before they implement it but that's just my speculation.
The last bullet is funny because that is exactly what google is trying to do.
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But Universal Profile cannot send to Jibe, and, last I heard, none of the Universal Profile gateways were compatible with each other. And, from what I’ve read, RCS sent from Google Messages isn’t compatible with T-Mobile’s gateway, which is a Jibe gateway. While RCS is theoretically interoperable, in practice it doesn’t seem to be especially so. And considering that the number 1 RCS gateway in use is Google Messages, if Universal Profile RCS isn’t interoperable with Google Messages, then RCS is kinda pointless as a fallback. If you can point to evidence that this information I’ve shared is incorrect, then I’ll adjust my position accordingly. So far, all the information I’ve seen suggests that RCS never actually achieved interoperability in practice. So far, RCS reminds me very much of vaporware (well, it technically exists and is available but has yet to meet its technical goals, very much like GNU HURD, which, to be fair, is often considered vaporware even if it’s technically available in perpetual beta form).You are wrong.
This is how RCS works (oversimplification)
Carriers implement their own RCS or just use the standard Universal Profile; US carriers have decided to default to use Google's implementation as of 2022 but also support Universal Profile. (2020 outdated list)
The carriers connect to RCS Interconnect Hubs just like how SMS and MMS have interconnected hubs, that is how you are able to receive text messages from people on different network operators. Major SMS/MMS Hub operators like GMS, Mavenir, etc, also have RCS Hubs.
3rd Party Hubs operated by different companies connect with one another and client messaging apps connect to the hub. This is where Google comes in the picture.
Google's Jibe Hub connects to and works with every other Hub. You don't need to use Google's implementation of RCS to work with Google, they also support RCS Universal Profile.
Wrong again
This is how Apple will support RCS.
Apple Message App with RCS Universal Profile - Apple's or 3rd-Party IMS - Apple's or 3rd Party RCS Hub which connects to any 3rd-Party or Jibe Hub.
As long as you connect to one hub then you are automatically connected to every hub that is connected in the RCS network, the same way SMS works. You do not need to connect to Google's Jibe hub directly. Any feature added to the Universal Profile will be supported.
At no point does Google need to provide Apple with APIs or Touch iOS for Apple to support RCS.
Apple can implement RCS. You are right about one thing, only Google - Google messages support e2e encryption which is the only feature Google has that Universal profile does not. But it's a matter of time before the Universal Profile gets updated to support e2e encryption.
It's not a matter of if but when. Apple has engaged the GSMA about implementing RCS dating far back to 2019, but they sure are dragging their feet. I could speculate and say perhaps apple is waiting for e2e encryption to be added before they implement it but that's just my speculation.
The last bullet is funny because that is exactly what google is trying to do.
And the way it works is: “I can’t send an RCS message to anywhere NEAR the number of folks that I can send MMS to. OR SMS to.”
Ohhhhhhh, you’ll probably be interested to know that not only are Apple not talking about RCS, even the GSMA hasn’t posted anything about RCS since before the much publicized “giving up” on the CCMI last year. Any information prior to that is all wishes and unicorns about what RCS was GOING to be… right up until it went kaput and Google started doing Google RCS.
It‘s not valid. RCS isn‘t supposed to replace or go feature parity mode with iMessage, it‘s supposed to replace / upgrade the SMS/MMS functionality so Apple to Android communication is more secure and feature rich. It‘s not supposed to have proprietary features like SharePlay and probably never will.
A group chat with Android users wont be an iMessage+RCS hybrid, it‘ll simply be the lowest denominator that is RCS in this case which is a pretty hefty upgrade over plain MMS (read recipes, high quality media, reactions, typing indicators and a lot more).
Before iMessage was conceived the tech was pitched to US carriers as a next generation texting system that‘s E2EE, available to every vendor and secure, but the carriers had no interest in it because you can‘t really monetize an open and encrypted standard I guess. After that they went ahead and turned it into the iMessage we know today.
That‘s the only public info we have about the original roots of iMessage, there‘s an interesting short read about an interview with Forstall (e.g. here https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...sage-to-wireless-carriers-but-they-didnt-bite)
UP can send to Jibe, T-Mobile was first to enable that in 2020. Prior to that, every carrier had their own implementation with no connection to other carriers, only within their network.
Old gateways prior to the move to UP 1.0 were not compatible. UP 1.0 was the framework to allow interconnection between carriers. In 2019 Verizon, Tmobile/Sprint, Att formed the CCMI in order to move and implement UP 1.0 but like everything, they were too slow to implement. In 2020 Tmobile pushed ahead and implemented UP1.0 and enabled cross-carrier support via Google Jibe interconnect. Other carriers were slow.
T-Mobile does not use Jibe, they use Mavenir but is UP 1.0 and they can connect to Jibe Hub.
Prior to UP 1.0 that was the case. Now every carrier in the US has moved to using Google Messages as their default messaging.
Jibe works with UP.
I've done so. In 2021 carriers agreed to moving to Google messages, Verizon being the last to join in July 2021. They all committed to using google messages as default.
That is not the definition of vaporware. Literally any Android device with UP 1.0 can download Google messages and use RCS today. Its been a long time coming but everything is now falling in place for RCS adoption globally. Apple is needed now for the final push.
SMS and MMS are RCS fallback. If RCS fails, then it gets routed to the other just like iMessage.
Ohhhhh, you should probably know that CCMI was created in 2019 in order to sidestep Google to push for interconnectivity between Verizon, Att, Tmobile/Sprint but they all abandoned it to Join Google in 2021.
Tmobile March 2021
T‑Mobile and Google Deliver Best-in-Class Mobile and TV Experiences, and Showcase Range of Android Devices - T‑Mobile Newsroom
Customers benefit from more value and services with Messages by Google, Google One, YouTube TV and YouTube Premium; T‑Mobile expands promotion of Pixel
Att June 2021
Enhancing the messaging experience for all Android users in the US on AT&T | Google Workspace Blog
Messages by Google is now the default messaging app for all AT&T customers using Android phones in the United States.
Verizon July 2021
Verizon and Google team up to bring enhanced messaging services to Android users
Verizon announced a collaboration with Google to expand advanced messaging services to Android users in the U.S. starting next year using Google’s Android Messages app.
FUD.
There are quite a few RCS UP (Universal Profile) hubs that interconnect with Google Jibe. Even Samsung Messages can talk to Jibe if your carrier is interconnected (Samsung uses carrier RCS setups in their app). Friends of me literally have chat groups from years ago that are cross-carrier (mixed use of carrier RCS app, Google Messages and Samsung Messages) cause their carriers didn‘t just throw together hubs. At least that‘s what I saw in 2019/2020 when I asked about RCS. I wouldn‘t really know for myself, since Apple doesn‘t provide RCS functionality and I‘m Apple only.
The whole RCS UP interconnected landscape is only a mess because carriers are too lazy to interconnect properly or give up completely (probably too expensive for little financial gain, so better for them to just let Google do it). US carriers seem to be peak anti-consumer in that regard.
Also: nothing stops Apple from rolling their own RCS hub that abides to RCS UP and interconnects with Jibe and other UP hubs.
Googles E2EE is literally the Signal protocol.
People in here seem to misunderstand how this works. RCS is conceived with extensibility in mind. You can query capabilities of contacts / clients and then enable / disable features on demand. Google Messages is currently the only app with E2EE (Signal protocol) but nothing stops Apple and co. from also building out the capability so Apple and Google Messages can have E2EE. Google even said they‘d be more than happy to help other apps from adding the same E2EE to their offering.
All the extra flavor Google added to their app is nothing more than plugins / extensions they created. Any other UP compliant app can simply ignore or decide to match the functionality by also adding said features to their offering.
You have no idea what you‘re talking about. RCS is completely different compared to SMS/MMS from a technical standpoint. Carriers wouldn‘t just be able to „push a message to an Apple device“ like you‘re presenting here. There‘d need to be software support in the Apple Messages app to hook into the new platform carriers created.
It isn’t FUD. You just are clueless. Samsung Messages can not talk to Jibe. Samsung DROPPED Samsung Messages and ships with GOOGLE Messages now. What you’re doing is sending SMS messages from the fallback.
There is no Universal Profile interconnect. Period. None. It doesn’t exist. There was, key word because it’s in the past, there was a working group to create an interconnect. It’s a spec that died on the vine, no development and abandoned. Even T Mobiles jibe service, made by Google themselves, can’t send messages to Google RCS.
That’s just the facts. The cold. Hard. Facts. RCS is a series of closed user groups. None talk to one another. None. Zero. Not a single one.
So, I did NOT know this… wow. i’m slightly blown away by this
BUT it does indicate why RCS has had a horribly rough go of it. It’s just another iteration of something the carriers never wanted in the first place. And, in another thread, just another thing showing the carriers don’t think it’s needed. And, if it isn’t needed by the carriers, it’s not going to happen no matter how badly Google wants it. WhatsApp has taken any market Google “might” have gotten, now they’re just reaching for scraps. How do you figure CCMI would sidestep Google? Doesn’t all RCS work with all other RCS’s including Google’s? So, this wouldn’t have sidestepped Google, they’d have been right there in it. AND, still not a single page presented that’s from the GSMA… which has zero interest in RCS.