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iTunes 5 and DRM?

Everyone should read the additional info link given in the heading:

http://www.audiorevolution.com/news/0800/09.dvdwatermark.shtml

I agree that something has to be done to protect copyrighted materials, but I'm afraid that audio watermarking could cause a degradation in the quality of playback. Although the iTunes Music Store songs (AAC) sound very good I can usually pick out an original CD track from a song that I've purchased from the store when I do a "blind" comparison. It's often difficult to actually identify what is different, I guess I'd call it a very slight fuzziness in the clarity of some of the background (lesser) instruments or notes. To my ears AAC still sounds very good, but it's not identical when encoded at 128kbps (but I continue to buy from the music store, at least so far). However, if they add watermarks that introduce additional audible differences then that may be the end of my use of the Music Store.
 
Re: audio watermark

Originally posted by mr.v
Sometimes I think the music industry may forget that maybe the reason people aren't buying as much music is because the there are so many crappy releases. These days notice when there is a new Hit it only lasts a week and the artist is gone.
Click to expand...

Surely this has got to be the understatement of the century?
 
Originally posted by whfsdude
Ugh Apple! People don't respond well to force. I won't use the iTunes Music Store anymore if I can't re-rip into AAC.
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Damn straight! I refuse to use iTMS simply because Apple wants to restrict how I can use the music. Do I really care about these restrictions, for practical purposes? No, I don't.

But I'm a contrary SOB who doesn't respond well to force. You may think that's an absurd position, but I'm the kind of person who will refuse to do something simply because someone tells me I have to do it. (Like Barry Bonds refusing to play in the home run derby this year - his only reason being "Because I'm a grown man and I don't have to.")
 
There are two main reasons why the music inductry is no longer doing so well.

1. Lots of people are now downloading
2. People now spend their money on games and DVD as well. Last year the computer games industry overtook the combined music and movie industry in terms of money spent by comsumers world wide.

Also broadband is helping to decrease music sales even more since a survey in the UK found that 60% of UK broadband users regulary download music from Kazaa and other P2P networks.
 
Originally posted by Analog Kid
Nothing is inevitable. DRM will only take hold if consumers continue to act like sheep and let the Recording Industry Ass. of America herd them into their pens.
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Well said. We are not powerless victims here. Just because the **AAs want to destroy fair use and first sale rights doesn't mean we have to sit back and take it. We just have to show them that such user-hostile actions will hurt their bottom line. This is entirely possible; informed consumers made Circuit City's Divx scheme go down in flames.

If Apple does something like this for the iTMS (which I don't think is likely, but you never know), we need to get as many people as possible to boycott it.
 
Originally posted by QCassidy352
You may think that's an absurd position, but I'm the kind of person who will refuse to do something simply because someone tells me I have to do it.
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I know exactly what you mean. I have no desire whatsoever to smoke, except when I see those sanctimonious anti-smoking spots on TV. Right now I consider the iTMS restrictions just barely acceptable because Apple isn't trying to completely control what you can do with the music, just make it more inconvenient in the hopes of deterring pirates. If they move to "hard" DRM, I'm gone.
 
Okay yes....if....IF Apple does go to "hard" DRM, let's all send threatening emails and start boycotts and parades and such in Cupertino, until they give up and stop the force. (and no I'm not being sarcastic)
 
As the other article said, the watermarking is audible, it makes sense. ¿How else is it supposed to survive the mp3 encoding that removes all inaudible sounds?

¿What is the point of spending lots of money for a DVD Audio or SACD player and all the new discs only to lose all the quality because of watermarking?

I don't like watermarking and I guess the more inaudible it becomes, the easier it would be to corrupt making an analog copy or ripping it to mp3.

Anyway, (and this is a personal opinion) most of the music they're going to protect is going to be crappy music from the major labels, and this will only make them lose more sales. Worse for them, and I really don't care about them or their music.
 
DRM is one thing, what about restricting hardware choices?

As .Mac users are aware, Apple recently updated the Backup application that comes with .Mac so that it only writes to original, Apple-installed CD and DVD burners.

This means anyone who buys an add-on CD or DVD burner cannot use it to backup their data. This includes people who have Cubes or iMacs or PowerBooks that did not have CD burners originally. There is no way for them to back up using this application.

Is Apple using Backup as a testing ground? Might they remove CD burning on non-Apple burners from iTunes 5? Has anyone heard rumors to this effect? Do you mind that Apple is taking this step? How do you think hardware manufacturers will respond?

There is a discussion of this in the "PowerMac G5 Keyboard, Displays, an Other Rumors" thread on Page Two.
 
Do you think that Apple wants to put DRM into their software?

This is all because the RIAA wants more protection, otherwise they would pull back from the iTunes store.

I really don't get the RIAA, they seem to have this weird sense that if they put more and more protection, that they will prevent it from being stolen.

But the sad reality is that if you can hear it, you can copy it, either in an analog or a digital way. Even Steve Jobs said there is no 100% guarantee. What they should do is offer more inventive to purchase legitimate copies than just downloading it.

But if you are a legitimate customer you probably won't notice any of it.
 
Not one mention about iTunes itself... as in is iTunes 5 going to ONLY be adding on more DRM? Are we going to be stuck at iTunes 3.0 functionality? When are we going to get multiple library support? When are we goin g to get more flexibility? When are we going to get the ability to add album graphics that don't take up space on an iPod?
 
Only mildly off topic

Originally posted by sluthy
it's a shame when technology will stop be from buying Ben Harper and Norah Jones.
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Picked up Norah Jones and ripped it straightway. No problems here. Also bought another set of the songs off iTMS so I would legally have a license to spare and give to my sister. How's that for support of music copyrights?

Originally posted by paulc

Are we going to be stuck at iTunes 3.0 functionality? When are we going to get multiple library support? When are we goin g to get more flexibility? When are we going to get the ability to add album graphics that don't take up space on an iPod?
Click to expand...

Hopefully you've been submitting your requests to Apple's Feedback because none of your suggestions had ever occurred to me during my normal use of my product. Which means, while these features would ultimately benefit all of us, they're only issues for a portion of us.
A lot of times we think that some of our ideas make up the natural progression of something. Apple's developers may never have planned on adding any of those things. Maybe you should tell them and stop just expecting them to know and add what u want.

Originally posted by bikertwin
Is Apple using Backup as a testing ground? Might they remove CD burning on non-Apple burners from iTunes 5?
Click to expand...

No. I think someone made a very dumb mistake. But I also hope that someone made a very dumb mistake. Or else someone is making a very dumb mistake. Ya feel me?

Originally posted by bikertwin
Okay yes....if....IF Apple does go to "hard" DRM, let's all send threatening emails and start boycotts and parades and such in Cupertino, until they give up and stop the force. (and no I'm not being sarcastic)
Click to expand...

And do you know what the great thing is? MacUsers are maybe the only market group who would actually do this. And you know what else? Apple is maybe the only company that would respond to it. That's my reason for choosing this platform....."You mean...the user...matters?"


-Hertz
 
The good thing is that iTunes 5 is probably still a year away. So we get to enjoy the current setup for a while longer.

Now I have an idea. :)

Arn, I don't know how big you want the MacRumors Buyer's Guide to be, but how about adding in some software? Put in the iApps, and then just some of the important stuff like Final Cut Pro. I dunno, just a suggestion.
 
Originally posted by arn

It seems _all_ DVDAudio players will be required to use this new protection. Much like all DVD-Players must enforce CSS.
Click to expand...

And we all know how well that works.
:p

The only thing stopping DVD pirating from being completely rampant (as opposed to just mostly rampant) is the cost of media.
 
Originally posted by bikertwin
DRM is one thing, what about restricting hardware choices?

As .Mac users are aware, Apple recently updated the Backup application that comes with .Mac so that it only writes to original, Apple-installed CD and DVD burners.

This means anyone who buys an add-on CD or DVD burner cannot use it to backup their data. This includes people who have Cubes or iMacs or PowerBooks that did not have CD burners originally. There is no way for them to back up using this application.

Is Apple using Backup as a testing ground? Might they remove CD burning on non-Apple burners from iTunes 5? Has anyone heard rumors to this effect? Do you mind that Apple is taking this step? How do you think hardware manufacturers will respond?

There is a discussion of this in the "PowerMac G5 Keyboard, Displays, an Other Rumors" thread on Page Two.
Click to expand...

I have mixed feelings on this. On the one hand, it seems more than slightly obnoxious for Apple to actually go to this trouble to lock out non-Apple hardware from their software. On the other hand, Apple continues to improve backup for free and there is nothing preventing you from using a 3rd-party burner with 3rd-party burning software.

Considering that iTunes is something of a flagship application I doubt Apple would want to alienate a large segment of their user base in such a manner by removing CD burning for non-Apple burners. (Although I wouldn't put it past them to do so for DVD burning with DVD-Audio)
 
thank god for the iPod

As long as I can listen to downloaded music via the iTMS on my iPod, I'm happy.

Steve Jobs is not going to screw the consumer and sell out to the RIAA.

Besides, any so-called protection will be cracked within time anyway.
 
Originally posted by QCassidy352
Damn straight! I refuse to use iTMS simply because Apple wants to restrict how I can use the music. Do I really care about these restrictions, for practical purposes? No, I don't.

But I'm a contrary SOB who doesn't respond well to force. You may think that's an absurd position, but I'm the kind of person who will refuse to do something simply because someone tells me I have to do it. (Like Barry Bonds refusing to play in the home run derby this year - his only reason being "Because I'm a grown man and I don't have to.")
Click to expand...

Isn't this just a rumor? Are you changing behavior over a rumor?
 
Originally posted by fpnc
Store songs (AAC) sound very good I can usually pick out an original CD track from a song that I've purchased from the store when I do a "blind" comparison.
Click to expand...

I'm curious about this. What method did you use to do the blind comparison, and on what equipment? With audio, I tend to disbelieve most claims of audibility, because both the eyes and brain tend to make you believe what you want to believe.

IMO, a double-blind test is the only way to know for sure.
 
While I am not fond of DRM, some of you guys go a *tad* nuts over it.

First, I highly doubt Apple would do it by their own free will, but they have to play nicely with the record companies.

Second, alot of you seem VERY confused about what happens when you buy music. You don't all the sudden "Own" that music, you just bought a license to listen to it.
This is coming from the same group of people who get mad because MS steals Apple idea's. Its the same thing..stealing.

Personally, I am fine buying music and listening to it on up to 10 devices. The only reason I would not like it is if I was trying to do something illegal.

About Software protection schemes... the only time they really bug me is when they check everytime you open the App, via a report back to their servers. MS Office does this and It really ticks me off. I don't like an app sending out net data without telling me.

In the end though, the schemes are almost useless for Software. The kind of people who spend the time to go out and find a warez copy will 99% of the time, have the knowhow to get around any protection.
 
Average Customer

I have been using the ITMS since it launched and I have purchased more music than I care to think about.

As a college student, I don't have time to get to a music store and buy CDs that I will need to store and move when i move in and out of the dorms.

I have been slowly replacing my downloaded music with purchased music simply because it is right, and it has helped me slim down my collection too.

As far as DRM....as a legit customer I don't feel it at all. I have copied my purchased music from the laptop to the desktop with ease (no extra steps), and my iPod works in the car and during my workout so I have no need to burn CDs.

If you push the limits you will find them, but if you simply enjoy the innovative service that apple provides, you will enjoy every bit of it.
 
Originally posted by Nermal
Anyway, I'm against all sorts of DRM. If Apple gives us iTunes 5 with DRM (that can't be switched off), then I'll just use 4 until there's a way around it.
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Okay, so which of the following is it?

You think everyone should be trusted to do what's honest and right?
You don't think artists deserve money for the music they make?
You don't care about theft and legality at all?

I really hate being mean, but sometimes I can't help it... Your stance is foolish and closed-minded. As with most things, a balanced solution is the right one. Being too extreme to either side will only set the industry back.
 
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