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iTunes Canada... Soon

Re: iTunes in Canada

Originally posted by dbasskin
Well, it's certainly nice to be noticed. Just a couple of clarifications:

First, CMRRA is a licensing agency, not an "association". I was on the phone to Apple the day of the IMS launch last April, seeking for a meeting to discuss licensing the service to do business in Canada. We regard IMS as one of the best-designed and most exciting online music distribution services ever created, and we'd be very excited to see it in the Canadian marketplace. At the time, Apple didn't want to meet with us. It's now clear that they were putting their efforts into the Windows version, and didn't want to expand to any further territories until they could do so on both the Mac and PC platforms, which seems to me to be a sound business decision.

We're looking forward to a rapid and mutually beneficial negotiation with Apple so that IMS can open in Canada as quickly as possible. Our company represents music publishers (and the songwriters they represent) and we will be licensing Apple in order to authorize them to make and sell reproductions of our clients' songs. Apple will make separate arrangements with the record labels for the use of their recordings. Once all the contracts are in place, I suspect that Apple will waste little time in opening IMS in Canada. Certainly it's full speed ahead as far as we're concerned.

If you have further questions on this subject, I invite you to visit our site and post a question in the "Ask Us A Question" section. You'll receive a prompt response.

David A. Basskin
President
CMRRA Ltd.
Toronto, Canada
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Wow! Try to get a response like that out of the RIAA (yes I know the two organizations don't do the same thing). Maybe Michael Moore was right about Canada.

I'm curious: does Apple Canada not use NDAs? I'm amazed that you are able to talk so freely about your discussions with Apple, in the US you have to completely sign away your right to talk if you want to do business with apple in any way. (other than buying their stuff of course)
 
Actually, it occurs to me that nothing that Mr. Baskkin has said is really vital--at no time has he revealed any launch dates, specific artist names, etc., so I can't imagine that anyone at Apple would be too bent out of shape about this.
 
Puretracks

As I don't speak for Puretracks, you'll have to take up your questions directly with them regarding bandwidth or other operating issues.

CMRRA is committed to a level playing field. We don't, and won't, play favourites in the licensing of online services, just as we have always made mechancial licenses available on standard terms and conditions to all record labels doing business in Canada. The answer to your question is very simple: Apple refrained, until very recently, from licensing discussions with us, for their own reasons. It's not up to me to question or comment on those reaosns, save to say, once again, that we look forward to their launch in Canada. Puretracks wanted to be in business in Canada and actively pursued a licensing deal, along with other services. There's no great mystery to all this.

As for retail pricing issues, again, you'll have to take that up with Puretracks.

David A. Basskin
President
CMRRA Ltd.
Toronto, Canada
 
Re: Puretracks

Thanks for the additional information Mr. Basskin.

So it appears the CMRRA represents individuals and "independent" artists, while the Labels likely handle their own licensing. [edit: apparently, my perception was mistaken, see Mr Basskin's response below]

Anyhow, it's great news that Apple is actively pursuing non-U.S. licensing.

arn
 
Originally posted by NavyIntel007
Canada has essentially 10% the population of the United States. It's fair to say that Canada would also have 10% of the US sales of iTMS.
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It might even be higher than 10% of the US sales, since some estimates peg the percentage of people in Canada accessing the internet through broadband connections as high as 64%, compared to only 37% in the US.

I just hope that the songs are priced at $0.99 Canadian, otherwise it simply will not be competetive as our cd prices are significantly lower than they are in the US, and the gap between the US and Canadian currencies only seems to be getting smaller as of late. (the Canadian dollar having gained 20% in value this past year).
 
YES!!

It's about time! Man now if they will only let us know when to expect an Apple store....
 
Just so you should understand ...

Almost every recording consists of two works, each of which is protected by copyright: the song and the recording. In order to legally sell downloads of recordings, the seller must have the permission of the owner of the song (the "music publisher") and the owner of the recording (typically the record company).

CMRRA is a licensing agency which represents the vast majority of music publishers doing business in Canada. Our clients range from the largest multinational companies to small independent songwriters who control their own publishing. On their behalf, we negotiate agreements for the licensing of their songs. Traditionally, these agreements have been negotiated with record companies. Now, with the introduction of legal online distribution services, we are negotiating agreements with such companies.

We have presently entered into agreements with MusicNet, Napster (formerly pressplay) and Puretracks, and expect to enter into many more agreements soon, including one with Apple respecting IMS. We strive to achieve a level playing field in the licensing of all services. We have nothing to do with retail pricing. As should be obvious, the scope of our activity is limited to Canadian distribution.

The online services must deal separately with the record labels from which they want to license master recordings. They deal with us for the songs. And, hopefully, a new marketplace will thrive.

David A. Basskin
President
CMRRA Ltd.
Toronto, Canada
 
croos-talked information

Hello,

Few days ago I was posting on this forum anews reported by a french PC-users web site, related to AOL digital radio on teh web, as well as iTMS-like pay-to-download music online store.
not before 2004
_____________________________________________
quote:

definitely. A french web site (http://www.clubic.com/n/n10189.html) reports that AOL is planing to launch a "iTMS"-like system during the second semester 2004
next week AOL will launch in UK a digital radio, but nothiing related to iTMS.
_____________________________________________

OK, now that we know that at least in the US there is a collaboration between Apple and AOL, I would imagine that the AOL roadmap pointing to middle of 2004 for its music download service, could actually be together with Apple....
I see it very likely. It is a good point for Apple, having a partner as AOL, is definitly a good point for negociating licence agreement with different Author/singer representative/organization in Europe.
In addition, Apple does not have to get them all on board immediately at the launch of iTMS Europe...they will anyway join under the pressure later on...
Apple only has to pay attention to diversity and choice for the different songs on iTMS. Are there examples of independent singers/band who directly licenced or signed a contract with iTMS??
 
Re: Just so you should understand ...

Originally posted by dbasskin
Now, with the introduction of legal online distribution services, we are negotiating agreements with such companies.

We have presently entered into agreements with MusicNet, Napster (formerly pressplay) and Puretracks, and expect to enter into many more agreements soon, including one with Apple respecting IMS. We strive to achieve a level playing field in the licensing of all services.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your quick responses Mr. Basskin. Does your statement imply that there is an existing legal framework for Apple to base it's agreement with the CMRRA on? If so, can you comment on how long negotiations could take?
 
Licensing IMS

We are presently in discussions with Apple and look forward to the speedy conclusion of a deal that will allow IMS to launch in Canada. I can't provide further information on the details of what is, in essence, the negotiation of a private business arrangement.

As to how long the negotiation will take, it's impossible to make predictions in this area. We've only just begun our discussions with Apple, and we hope for the best.

David A. Basskin
President
CMRRA Ltd.
Toronto, Canada
 
interesting point

Originally posted by T.Rex
I just hope that the songs are priced at $0.99 Canadian, otherwise it simply will not be competetive as our cd prices are significantly lower than they are in the US, and the gap between the US and Canadian currencies only seems to be getting smaller as of late. (the Canadian dollar having gained 20% in value this past year).
Click to expand...

Well here start a little problem....why should it be cheaper for you in Canada than in the US?? I do understand the point regarding the currency gap between US and Canadian dollar, but this will always change from time to time (up or down) and I doubt that the price of an iTMS music track would be indexed on the Canadian dollar change vs. US dollar....
I am leaving in Europe, when the Euro was created, it was around 1.12 US$ = 1 Euro, then Euro was down to 0.90US$=1 Euro, and today you need close to 1.2US$ = 1 Euro, so if you look at the variation, (nearly 30% between the lowest and highest rate), would you expect that the price of a song will vary??
I bet that the price will be 0.99 Can$ and 0.99Euro; it will of course be a good deal for Apple, but it is also possible that the licencing agreement on this side of the atlantic will be more in favor of the record companies.
 
no such thing as iTMS Europe

as all the deals are made on a country by country basis with copyright authorities, I strongly doubt wether there will be such a thing as iTMS for Europe. I think it is much more likely that Apple will roll it out as it becomes possible per country

at least I hope so
 
Re: interesting point

Originally posted by eric67
Well here start a little problem....why should it be cheaper for you in Canada than in the US?? I do understand the point regarding the currency gap between US and Canadian dollar, but this will always change from time to time (up or down) and I doubt that the price of an iTMS music track would be indexed on the Canadian dollar change vs. US dollar....
I am leaving in Europe, when the Euro was created, it was around 1.12 US$ = 1 Euro, then Euro was down to 0.90US$=1 Euro, and today you need close to 1.2US$ = 1 Euro, so if you look at the variation, (nearly 30% between the lowest and highest rate), would you expect that the price of a song will vary??
I bet that the price will be 0.99 Can$ and 0.99Euro; it will of course be a good deal for Apple, but it is also possible that the licencing agreement on this side of the atlantic will be more in favor of the record companies.
Click to expand...

For starters CDs in canada are usually no more than $13. So having anything more than $.99 a song would not make money. In canada they don't make up employee pay on the american dollar. So a canadian making $9/hour is doing the same amount of work as a US employee making $9/hour and yet the money is not worth the same.

Are we to say that Canadians don't work as hard as people in the US? Absolutely not, that's obsurd.

The difference between $.99 CAD and $.99 USD is small. It's not as if the artists are making any more money on CDs in canada when clearly the CD prices in canada are sometimes half (with currency conversion) of what they cost in the States.
 
Those Canadians are OK by me!

Wow - I can't believe how cordial and accommodating Mr. Basskin has been. His US counterparts would have filed suit against MacRumors to have the site shut down for disseminating trade secrets.

I guess cooler weather makes for cooler heads up North. Of course, since there hasn't been a perpetual heatwave in DC maybe that theory isn't entirely true.
 
Re: interesting point

Originally posted by eric67
Well here start a little problem....why should it be cheaper for you in Canada than in the US?? I do understand the point regarding the currency gap between US and Canadian dollar, but this will always change from time to time (up or down) and I doubt that the price of an iTMS music track would be indexed on the Canadian dollar change vs. US dollar....
Click to expand...

That's just the way it has always been with "physical" music sales. I don't know if it still this way, but at least up until a decade or so ago, the price for CD's in Canada seemed to hover around C$15, while the prices in the States were around US$20.

BTW, I love the idea of a Bob & Doug promotion. Given Steve Jobs' reported relationship with Disney and the current promotions for Brother Bear, however, I don't know if it'd ever happen.
 
Re: Puretracks

Originally posted by dbasskin
As I don't speak for Puretracks, you'll have to take up your questions directly with them regarding bandwidth or other operating issues.

CMRRA is committed to a level playing field. We don't, and won't, play favourites in the licensing of online services...Puretracks wanted to be in business in Canada and actively pursued a licensing deal, along with other services. There's no great mystery to all this.
Click to expand...

(nod) Thank you, again, for your candor and quick response!

My apologies--I didn't mean to imply that anything "shady" was going on with PureTracks; I was honestly curious whether there was simply some sort of a legitimate "hold time" for foreign companies that native (Canadian-based) companies didn't have to go through, or whatever. As you explained, evidently it was simply a matter of priorities for Apple--first worry about the Windows version, then start focusing on other countries, which is what is obviously happening now.

We appreciate your willingness to discuss these matters in such detail, and look forward to seeing the iTMS brought to Canada and other nations--for both Mac and Windows! (and, who knows, Linux at some point as well?)
 
i want the euro itms !!! don't want to wait until spring ... hmmm ... at all, how important is the european market for apple, they lost marketshare here ...though in switzerland they have around 8% !!!
.a
 
Originally posted by Totalshock
Hmmmm.... and just when it seemed the company had forgiven and forgot over that whole spec leak by (Canadian company) ATi....
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I think it was also the Canadian version of Time magazine that leaked info on the original iMac the day before it was introduced. :D

As far as the iTMS in Canada is concerned, it seems that we have a better arrangement in licencing songs. If the owner of the song negotiates through CMRRA with Apple separately from Apple's negiations with the record labels, then an independent artist could simply have their song professionally recorded and cut out the middle man (record labels) for online distribution.
 
I think its great that we can get an answer right from the guy in charge! Hopefully we'll see this soon its killing us canadians to wait! .99 is a lot nicer than 1.29 or 1.49 especially with 5000 songs plus.
 
Originally posted by NavyIntel007
The question is, will there be a Canadian iTMS or will they just be allowed access to the current store? Will there be a french translation of the iTMS for people in Quebec? Will songs be priced $.99 CAD or in the US conversion?
Click to expand...

My bet is that it'll be the current store; they just have to have the technology in place to verify and accept credit cards issued by Canadian banks.

(The systems that do verification of U.S. credit cards don't usually handle ones from other countries.)

Of course... I'd hazard a guess that Apple already has that technology in place, since I haven't heard much wailing and gnashing of teeth from northern friends about being unable to shop at the Apple store on-line.

In fact, I'd suspect that Apple has the credit-handling bits in place for Japan, Australia, and most of Europe as well, at the very least.

So the holdup really is licensing (and possibly that patent, in Europe) -- once that's dealt with, they should be able to just 1) tweak the credit card signup page to handle different address formats for different regions, and 2) rule the world. There is no step three. :D
 
Re: Just so you should understand ...

Originally posted by dbasskin
Almost every recording consists of two works, each of which is protected by copyright: the song and the recording. In order to legally sell downloads of recordings, the seller must have the permission of the owner of the song (the "music publisher") and the owner of the recording (typically the record company).

CMRRA is a licensing agency which represents the vast majority of music publishers doing business in Canada.
Click to expand...

For those who don't know the music biz, the CMRRA is roughly analagous to BMI (Broadcast Music, Inc.) or ASCAP (The American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers) here in the U.S.

They're still concerned with folks getting their royalty checks, but since the song owner/music publisher is often the person (or people) who wrote the song, this is entirely different from the RIAA, which is concerned with making sure the labels get theirs - CMRRA, BMI and ASCAP end up making sure artists and people like that get theirs. :)
 
That's Almost Correct ....

Actually, the US equivalent of CMRRA (http://www.cmrra.ca) is the Harry Fox Agency (http://www.harryfox.org). The Canadian equivalent of ASCAP (http://www.ascap.com) and BMI (http://www.bmi.com) is SOCAN (http://www.socan.ca). All these organizations represent songwriters and music publishers but for different purposes: CMRRA and HFA license the reproduction right in songs in Canada and the USA, respectively, while SOCAN licenses the performing right in music in Canada, and ASCAP and BMI do so in the US.

Complicated? Well ... yes. But so are computers. I strongly recommend you visit our web site for the full story on CMRRA. We're always happy to answer questions about our work. Just post a question on our site and you'll get a prompt response - usually from me!

David A. Basskin
President
CMRRA Ltd.
Toronto, Canada
 
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