iTunes Movie Store Rumblings

[longofest]

Has anyone hacked a BR encoded disc yet? Or HD encoded disc?

We haven't really seen any BR encoded disks out yet, nor have we seen many HD-DVD's (although there are some of those floating around). The biggest rumor out there though is that there is in fact still an analog loophole, where at least the first boxes are displaying full HD resolution out of analog outputs despite the claims of the media police.

The thing about the next generation is that they are supposed to be able to change the DRM codec on the fly, so different disks can be protected with different codecs, so you break one and they throw another one at you. Its not like CSS with the DVD's, where they broke it once and that's the end for DVD encryption.

 

[FleurDuMal]

You 'only if it's HD' people are living in bizarro world.

Some very quick calculations based on the Quicktime HD gallery files.

Roughly 100MB for 2 minutes of footage at 720p. Thats about 5.5GB for a 2 hour movie. Which is a 5 hour download at 300KB/s which is on the higher end of broadband speeds.

Still with me. Not to mention the iPod barely plays 320x240 H.264 for 2 hours now. Yet somehow Apple is going to get more than 2 hours at 720p?

Sorry to put a damper on things but the iTMovieS is about selling iPods, not giving you HD content to watch on your TV.

If I'm not mistaken, the current gen iPods can't even handle standard definition video in H.264 yet, can they? What is standard definition for DVDs?

 

[Mord]

i'd use it if films were 480p itunes had dvd burning integration with the same DRM scheme as music does and they cost 6.99, it bugs me that itms music is 80p which is like $1.43 nearly 50% more.

 

[Leoff]

$9.99 going to seem cheap in about yr or two once lowercost BR and HD DVD players hit the marketplace.

The movie industry has already said normal DVD's are priced entirely too low.

So all new HD/BR movies will be selling $24-35 bucks on avg.
Add any other disc to that and your looking at $50-60 bucks.

List price on most all BR movies are $39.99-34.99.
List price on most all HD movies are $30.00-35.00.

When I say low cost HD/BR players...folks getting them with the 360 or PS3 this x'mas...along with folks buying new players.

$9.99 is going to seem expensive now, OUTRAGEOUS in a year or two, given the bitrate quality of what is going to be able to be downloaded.

The movie industry has ALWAYS said normal DVD's are priced entirely too low. They'd charge $100 a piece if they could get away with it. Considering it costs them about a $1 to produce each one, the more the better for them.

With Apple, this is going to be a "quick and dirty" movie availability thing. The quality is going to be poor compared to everything else and they know that. They have to keep the bitrate down, otherwise we're looking at downloads in the HOURS for the average person and average people aren't going to do that.

I'm shocked that Apple is asking $10 a pop for these things. $6, maybe. $10? forget it.

 

[Passante]

Ever watch one of the shows that are available on iTMS on anything other than an iPod? The quality is horrendous and they would need dvd quality to get most people interested. snip

Last time I downloaded a missed episode of 24 it looked great on my TV. Better than my analog cable

 

[milatchi]

Yeah, I doubt I would. A big factor as always is the quality and the DRM.

 

[Scruff]

If I was able to redownload the movies a good number of times in several file formats/resolutions, then perhaps I would buy them. In fact, I probably would.

And a burn-straight-to-DVD (with maybe an included menu? I don't mean one you make in iDVD, I mean the proper DVD menu) would be great.

 

[princealfie]

The movie industry is nuts to think that they could charge $100 per flick. At that rate, I'm going to listen to my cd's now.

 

[AvSRoCkCO1067]

Last time I downloaded a missed episode of 24 it looked great on my TV. Better than my analog cable

Yeah...am I the only one who doesn't mind the current quality right now?

I've purchased over a hundred TV Shows - and although I'd probably not purchase too many movies, the price is more of a consideration than the quality. <Shrug>

 

[AvSRoCkCO1067]

The movie industry is nuts to think that they could charge $100 per flick. At that rate, I'm going to listen to my cd's now.

Where'd we get the 100 dollar rate???!!!!

 

[Bad Beaver]

The movie industry has ALWAYS said normal DVD's are priced entirely too low. They'd charge $100 a piece if they could get away with it. Considering it costs them about a $1 to produce each one, the more the better for them.

Remember Laserdisc? They *did* charge $100 (or $50, they were around 100 Deutschmarks back then, but I guess the Dollar did better back then too) Anyway, LDs demanded cleanroom manufacturing conditions (unless they were made by Sony ) so they were anything but cheap, and had zero copy protection. ... oh, and there was nothing you could really copy them to anyway

 

[Mac Fly (film)]

"Would you buy movies from the iTunes Music Store if the quality remained the same?"

NO Waaaaaaaaay!!!!!

 

[whooleytoo]

Given that I know people who spend days (not just hours) downloading AVC encoded recordings of rugby games, I'm not surprised that a lot of people would have the patience for high quality (but lengthy) movie downloads too.

 

[thunderclap]

When I can buy the movie at at least DVD quality and be able to burn it to disc then I'll be interest. Until then it's a novelty at best.

 

[supermacdesign]

New Device

Apple needs a new device (video iPod or something else) to play such content on as a motivator. I would never buy a movie for 9.99 just to have it confined to my iPod of computer and in such a puny format. For 9.99 I might as well by the DVD so I can enjoy it where ever in high quality, rip it to my Pod or imply ebay the sucker if I ever got bored of it. I fear for the future of digital content because I don't like being limited to a license. This goes for Music, Movies and now especially games. Maybe I am old school but I still want something tangible for my money. A DVD in the case or a game in a box, that sort of thing. At the very least when we purchase/download one of this films I want it DVD bunable. Perhaps it could somehow download with all the DVD menu graphics and links intact so its like buying one from the store.

 

[Stella]

No.

The price will probably be too high - better to buy the CD.

Additionally, any service will be for the states only while apple drags its feet in negoitations for the rest of the world.

 

[Savage Henry]

I don't ever want to watch anything on less than a 32inch widescreen with the clarity of a pacific ocean night sky and a sound system that would wake the Gods.

I don't seem convinced that it will take off.

 

[jephrey]

Well, I wouldn't get sub-par videos either. Videos should be available in multiple formats at different prices (as well as audio, I would buy more apple lossless files than I do the compressed garbage)

So, the idea is to buy/download a 1080i movie that can be played at the iPod level, although not practical. The idea could be just to have 3-4 movies on your pod at this quality that when you dock the thing, you can output to a 1080i TV and watch at full quality. Is downloading something that big practical? Even more so if apple can built the BT protocol into iTunes. So it won't be instantaneous, but you'll get the thing within 24hrs, and for services like netflix, that's the going lead-time.

For those that don't care, offer a lowQ version at 320x240.

If you look at the way Phish has set up their download scheme (you can get mp3s or flac) at different prices. This is perfect www.livephish.com.

I think it's reasonable to only want 1080i (or the best that the movie is capable of, obviously older movies won't be able to reach that level).

So, I'm just scared that the offering won't be quality, and I won't buy.

But finally, the quality of the 320x240 isn't the worst and I do keep some favorites on the pod.

But what the hell do I know?

Jephrey

 

[notjustjay]

The movie industry has ALWAYS said normal DVD's are priced entirely too low. They'd charge $100 a piece if they could get away with it.

Remember that's exactly what they did with VHS tapes, too. When movies finished their theatrical run, the VHS tapes would be released. They would cost $100 or so at first ("priced for rental"). Obviously the only buyers at this point would be Blockbuster, etc. who would pay for dozens of copies of these movies at $100, and rent them out. If the VHS tape wore out or broke, they'd have to buy another copy.. for another $100.

(When Star Trek: Generations came out on VHS, apparently there were a lot of Trekkers who gladly paid the $100 to be first on the block to own the movie... other, ostensibly smarter, fans, waited until the "sell-through" date or bought the LD.)

After a few months of this, the VHS tapes would be mass-marketed to home video, and you'd get it at Wal-Mart for $15.

There were exceptions, like some very popular Disney or family titles, which were released all on the same day, all at the consumer price.

When DVDs first came out, studios would often release the movie on a given date, priced to own on DVD and priced to rent on VHS (e.g. $100). There would be a second announcement that movie x was "now available to own" on VHS, a few months later.

Nowadays nobody buys VHS, and Blockbuster pays the same $15 for their rental DVDs that you and I pay for our own copies. And I think this is where the studio execs want to try and get their money again.

(Edited: looked up some figures on Google)

 

[DTphonehome]

So what? Connections get faster all the time, and an interesting service would only accelerate the process. The higher end of broadband in my region is also rather 16mbit

"megabytes per second" and "megabits per second" are VERY different. RCN offers 20 megaBITS per second in area, which is about 2.3 megaBYTES per second. And that's theoretical download speed. Speeds will vary tremendously from that. The movie file sizes are stated in megaBYTES. An HD movie will download too slowly on even the fastest internet connections for it to give the instant gratification you get with iTMS music files. Net connections will have to be an order of magnitude faser than they are now for HD delivery to be practical.

So the question still stands: who in their right mind would buy movies at or near DVD prices when the quality on your TV is VHS or less?

 

[hyperpasta]

Apple's being retarded. First off, adding BitTorrent technology to iTunes would let you download EVERYTHING on the whole damn store so much faster, freeing up bandwidth to serve broadcast-quality video.

Secondly, who wants to own a movie? The attraction of iTunes for most people isn't that you OWN what you buy; it's that you can get things in small chunks. I spend $100+ on music every year now, wayyy more than I did before iTunes. I also enjoy the music I DO buy more now... since I actually want every song, and am not being forced into buying a lot of bundled crap. It's a win-win.

Now look at movies. $10 isn't something you spend on impusle, and I bet a huge amount of iTunes sales are based on impulse. I buy tons of music on impulse. Even $1.99 for a video is hard to justify sometimes, but 99c is perfect for a song.

iTunes needs to rent movies for say, $2.99 for 3 days (but can be downloaded a few extra days in advance: the timer is started when you play the video for the first time). Broadcast quality. BitTorrent takes care of bandwidth. They make more money since people use the service more now that it's convenient. People rent movies on impulse. The movie studios are happy since it lowers piracy. The large files dissappear in the end anyway, so HD space isn't a concern.

It's a win-win-win-win-win! Why doesn't Apple do it!!!!

 

[Mac Fly (film)]

Secondly, who wants to own a movie?

Exactly I never heard of people buying Dvd's before. Huh?

 

[JimmyB248]

Ok, I agree that higher quality would be brilliant, but it is physically not possible, many of the points I've read on here are not going to happen ever because it is not what Apple is aiming to do.

The small resolution is due to the fact that internet speeds are not up to the task of downloading HD video, sure 480i would be acceptable, but the file size would be huge and it would take hours and hours to download.

$9.99 is I think a good deal for the movie, you're paying for convenience. Tagged movies, on your hard drive, also on your iPod, at the click of a button. This is the point of iTunes, convenience. It's also digital media, Apple would never send you a copy of the HD-DVD in the post along with your order, because Apple does not want you to have hard copies, it's all about the digital. CD's should cease to exist, it'll all become digital (should the quality be increased to lossless).

You guys do not represent the majority of the users to iTunes, you're perfectionists, of course, and high quality is essential, however to the average user who prefers convenience to quality, this would be a brilliant idea. I've purchased several of the TV Shows off iTunes and I have to say that the compression is quite incredible, H.264 is a godsend, for a 320x240 file size it looks quite amazing, and of course the files are designed to be viewed on the iPod, and on there they are perfect quality, couldn't be much better.

I have faith that when the internet speed increases and hard drive size increases for the iPod and laptops that Apple will upgrade the quality of the videos (they'd have to, music is easier as many people don't notice the sound difference, but with video it is far easier to see the difference) for free to those who have previously bought them, unless of course the prices increase which I cannot imagine happening.

 

[Mac Fly (film)]

People rent movies on impulse.

No they don't.

 

[Mac Fly (film)]

Ok, I agree that higher quality would be brilliant, but it is physically not possible, many of the points I've read on here are not going to happen ever because it is not what Apple is aiming to do.

The small resolution is due to the fact that internet speeds are not up to the task of downloading HD video, sure 480i would be acceptable, but the file size would be huge and it would take hours and hours to download.

$9.99 is I think a good deal for the movie, you're paying for convenience. Tagged movies, on your hard drive, also on your iPod, at the click of a button. This is the point of iTunes, convenience. It's also digital media, Apple would never send you a copy of the HD-DVD in the post along with your order, because Apple does not want you to have hard copies, it's all about the digital. CD's should cease to exist, it'll all become digital (should the quality be increased to lossless).

You guys do not represent the majority of the users to iTunes, you're perfectionists, of course, and high quality is essential, however to the average user who prefers convenience to quality, this would be a brilliant idea. I've purchased several of the TV Shows off iTunes and I have to say that the compression is quite incredible, H.264 is a godsend, for a 320x240 file size it looks quite amazing, and of course the files are designed to be viewed on the iPod, and on there they are perfect quality, couldn't be much better.

I have faith that when the internet speed increases and hard drive size increases for the iPod and laptops that Apple will upgrade the quality of the videos (they'd have to, music is easier as many people don't notice the sound difference, but with video it is far easier to see the difference) for free to those who have previously bought them, unless of course the prices increase which I cannot imagine happening.

What are you talking about?