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iTunes Music Store for Europe - Next Year

Originally posted by thies
Pardon me, but why does it take longer to negotiate in europe? Last time I checked the major labels are international entities and there is only a handful of them. With those few agreements have already been reached in the US, if you have an agreement there, you can reach one for the rest of the world at the same time as long as you aren't an inept negotiator.
Conclusion: the delay can not be due to licensing issues but is more likely to blame on Apple.
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Sorry, but that's absolutely wrong. Companies are established according to the laws of the country in question. Moreover, it's about hammering out permission with the entity that has control over the music (Publisher, record label, artist, etc.).

So it's not necessarily about shaking the hand of just the major record label. There are other parties involved.

For example, Sony Music in the UK is a different entity than Sony Music in the US. They are under the same parent company but are independent of one another in many regards.

If I released an album on Sony Music UK and Sony Music US wanted to release it in the states, they'd have to have an agreement/contract between them established before doing so. Factor in that not all artists are published by the record label. They might have an independent publisher and Apple would need to seek their permission, also. It's not automatic.

If it's that bureaucratic between siblings, imagine the kinds of hoops that Apple must be jumping through in order to let you download music from SEVERAL major labels that have a global presence.

It is NOT easy or quick to resolve.
 
Re: Re: Re: Prices

Originally posted by Stella
Thats lame.

manufacturers blame *everything* in Europe being higher priced than the US due to Taxes.

So lame excuse. The fact that when you:

1. Remove the taxes from a product
2. Convert currency to US$

The prices are still higher than the raw US$ speaks
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Are you accounting for the corporate income tax, or just the VAT?
 
If Microsoft and OD2 can do it, Apple could if they had the will. Which they don't.

In the same way as they can't be bothered to set up iPhoto printing outside the US.

Frankly, there are a lot of VERY loyal Mac users in the UK who are getting pretty t'd off with Apple's "up yours Europe" attitude.
 
Originally posted by kubrick
If Microsoft and OD2 can do it, Apple could if they had the will. Which they don't.

In the same way as they can't be bothered to set up iPhoto printing outside the US.

Frankly, there are a lot of VERY loyal Mac users in the UK who are getting pretty t'd off with Apple's "up yours Europe" attitude.
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I think you're taking this too personally, without proper insight. Why in hell would a corporation intentionally piss off customers? They're job is to make as much profit as they can. In Apple's case, they try to offer you stellar products in return.

So, pissing off customers on purpose doesn't make any sense.

No one else's download service is as liberal as Apple's. No one else's DRMs are as customer-friendly as Apple's.

Do you have to subscribe? No. You can also use it on more computers than the competition, burn unlimited cds and use it on multiple iPods. Every song is .99

That's STANDARD.

Is that the same with the other services? NO. And that's why those other download services have been able to throw a service together so quickly. They've submitted to the wills of the record labels instead of fighting for the customer, unlike Apple.

So put it in proper pespective --- Apple is working hard to duplicate these freedoms in each territory and are working with a stubborn record industry in doing so.

Now, let's use a personal example to relate. If you worked for a company and demanded a 50% raise, do you expect your request to be approved as quickly as not asking for anything at all?

Apple's demanding the 50% raise whereas these other services are content with nothing more than a cost of living increase, if that.
 
Originally posted by deepkid
I think you're taking this too personally, without proper insight.

You obviously don't live in Europe.

Why in hell would a corporation intentionally piss off customers?

Ask Apple - they've been doing it over here for years.

They're job is to make as much profit as they can. In Apple's case, they try to offer you stellar products in return.

They offer *some* stellar products, but not all of them. Like iTMS. Like iPhoto - there are loads of on-line printing facilities that they could piggy-back onto, but they just can't be bothered.

They still expect non-US customers to pay a higher fee for the OS, iLife and .Mac though. Plus a higher initial cost of the hardware (before any taxes).

So, pissing off customers on purpose doesn't make any sense.

Agree with you on that one.

No one else's download service is as liberal as Apple's. No one else's DRMs are as customer-friendly as Apple's.

No one elses is restricted to one country either.
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Originally posted by thies
Pardon me, but why does it take longer to negotiate in europe? Last time I checked the major labels are international entities and there is only a handful of them. With those few agreements have already been reached in the US, if you have an agreement there, you can reach one for the rest of the world at the same time as long as you aren't an inept negotiator.
Conclusion: the delay can not be due to licensing issues but is more likely to blame on Apple.
Click to expand...

That's right, because we all know that each record label don't have separate companies with separate licensing requirements in each country. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Ever wonder why import CD's are so rare and costly? Mayhaps it has something to do the licensing / copyright issues that prevents easy importation?
 
No one else's download service is as liberal as Apple's. No one else's DRMs are as customer-friendly as Apple's.

No one elses is restricted to one country either.
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Try downloading from buymusic.com from outside the U.S. and get back to us, okay?

From their site "Your Digital Download sublicense is nonexclusive, nontransferable, nonsublicensable, limited and for use only within the United States."

Sounds restrictive to me.
 
Originally posted by Hawthorne
Try downloading from buymusic.com from outside the U.S. and get back to us, okay?

From their site "Your Digital Download sublicense is nonexclusive, nontransferable, nonsublicensable, limited and for use only within the United States."

Sounds restrictive to me.
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Fair enough, but the likes of OD2 are available throughout Europe, which what we are talking about here!

Those of you in the US are already well covered!

:p
 
Originally posted by kubrick

You obviously don't live in Europe.


(Why in hell would a corporation intentionally piss off customers?)

Ask Apple - they've been doing it over here for years.

(Their job is to make as much profit as they can. In Apple's case, they try to offer you stellar products in return.)

They offer *some* stellar products, but not all of them. Like iTMS. Like iPhoto - there are loads of on-line printing facilities that they could piggy-back onto, but they just can't be bothered.

They still expect non-US customers to pay a higher fee for the OS, iLife and .Mac though. Plus a higher initial cost of the hardware (before any taxes).

(So, pissing off customers on purpose doesn't make any sense.)

Agree with you on that one.

No one elses is restricted to one country either.
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Where I live is beside the point.

What matters is each country's laws and the permissions of the entity that controls the music.

If you insist that Apple is purposely making your life miserable, patronize the company that seems to be your ally. I dont think you'll find sensible offerings by those other download services in comparison, though. If so, list them out.

Perhaps you neglected to comprehend what I typed about Apple asking for more usage liberties for the customer. It's why I used the example of an employee asking for a 50% raise. Apple isn't accepting the weaker terms thrown at the likes of BuyMusic.com, etc.

They're fighting to get the best terms and that doesn't come easily or quickly.

(I won't waste time on the pricing for products that Apple sells internationally, as that's been beaten to death already.)

By the way, I've spent a considerable amount of time in Europe and that's why I DO understand why this isn't as easy as you think it is.

Try getting a work visa in the UK as a foreigner.
 
Why it's more difficult to bring iTunes to europe

Unlike North America, Europe has different royalty collection agencies for each country. For example in the UK alone you have the MCPS (Mechanical Copyright Protection Society) and PRS (Performing Rights Society) to mention just two......infact if you go to the BIEM site (which represents 41 collection agencies) www.biem.org you'll see the extent of the problem.....each agency has to be negotiated with individually then add into the mix the fact that you need to filter out artists/tracks that nay particular label does not want sold on-line (could be just contracual) then multiply this by the no of territories you wish to deal in and it becomes very complex.....

Also it's important to consider that Apple do not want to upset the applecart (pun intended) by soiling the success of the NA operation with any less sucessfull sibling....so they have to have everything in place.


OD2 is interesting on a couple of fronts...not least of which is the fact that Peter Gabriel is behind them....

secondlt the licencing is different which may have given them an advantage in negotiating...Also OD2 have a fairly large collection of the "Big 5" catalogue anyway due to the other work they do for them....

I'd suggest waiting until the Wintel version of iTunes is released before moving ito europe then the market will be big enough.


Just my tuppeneth........My first post too!! :)
 
Originally posted by deepkid

If you insist that Apple is purposely making your life miserable, patronize the company that seems to be your ally.

That's taking things a bit far - there is more to life than a $0.99 song and no one in their right mind could ever argue that Apple or any other similar company is deliberately setting out to make their life miserable. The alternative OS provider is, or course, too horrific to consider. and I'm not talking Linux here ;)

They're fighting to get the best terms and that doesn't come easily or quickly.

Experience in Europe would suggest that it doesn't come at all. How long has the US had iPhoto printing? Two years? How many photo printing services are available in the UK? Dozens. Go figure, as you say over there.

Jobs has just been interviewed by the BBC and when asked a direct question about iTMS availability in Europe, he stated "probably next year". I'm not holding my breath, because that was the timeframe given for European iPhoto printing when THAT was launched in the US in 2001. Experience counts for a great deal and experience says that Apple UK for one seem to sit around on their thumbs all day, not doing very much.

Try getting a work visa in the UK as a foreigner.

LOL! Green card anyone?
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Originally posted by DeusOmnis
I dont live in europe, i dont see why ppl cares about it so much. I think the next time those ppl are born, they should pick a better spot.
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Away with you, stinking troll!
 
Originally posted by Stella
Obviously Apple haven't tried hard enough to get it released this year.

I'm sure if they tried hard enough, they would have got it out for some countries.

But no.... dragging their heels.

I would be surprised to ever see an international iTunes.

I'd be very surprised to see an Australian version. Sorry, I just don't see it: looking at recent reports to how Apple treat that part of the world - they can bearly get their products over there.
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I think it has more to do with legal stuff, then a hold up on software development. Sorting out copyright, royalty pay-outs and all of that is no small task.

But I can understand why people are upset. Being a smaller market to the US we often play second fiddle to some of the features, US mac users take for granted. In fact, some of you Europeans sound quite bitter :)
 
Apple is a U.S. company. We here in the U.S. get to wait 2 years longer than the Japanese for the latest personal electronics products from companies like Sony. It's the same sitch with Apple's international deals.
 
I wouldn't call Europe that much a smaller market than the US...

Apple, ignore europe at your peril!

Other music services will grab the foothold long before Apple, probably at a cheaper price too!

68p in the UK to download a song, I would be really surprised if Apple could match it.

Originally posted by edStar

But I can understand why people are upset. Being a smaller market to the US we often play second fiddle to some of the features, US mac users take for granted. In fact, some of you Europeans sound quite bitter :)
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Originally posted by kubrick

No one else's download service is as liberal as Apple's. No one else's DRMs are as customer-friendly as Apple's.

No one elses is restricted to one country either.
Click to expand...

Um, actually, quite wrong. In fact, the majority of download services out there are single-country or at most handful-of-countries.

Yes, even that MS/ODI one (Spain and one other European country last I heard).

Like it or not, it is difficult to negotiate a standard contract with literally thousands of entities in dozens of municipalities and under dozens of legal frameworks at once. As far as I can tell, Apple is hoping to launch iTMS Europe as a single entity, not as "iTMS France" + "iTMS Spain" + "iTMS Vatican City", etc.

No one has done it yet. Apple is apparently trying to. Quit yer huffing and puffing, and get a US-based credit card if you must.
 
Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
Move to the US!

Seriously. And get citizenship too, we need as many people to vote for Dean as possible...
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Gah! I´d rather stay here in Norway and wait a little longer for the music store..

Just wish it will come to Norway soon.
 
Originally posted by Stella
I wouldn't call Europe that much a smaller market than the US...

Apple, ignore europe at your peril!

Other music services will grab the foothold long before Apple, probably at a cheaper price too!

68p in the UK to download a song, I would be really surprised if Apple could match it.
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edstar was talking about his/her own situation, meaning Australia. Brisbane, edstar's location, is in Australia, a much smaller market than the US.

"Being a smaller market to the US we often play second fiddle" -edstar, emphasis mine. The "we" there is Australia.
 
Re: iTunes Music Store for Europe - Next Year

Originally posted by Macrumors
A Reuters article reports on Apple Expo Paris, but provides some new information on Apple's plans for the iTunes Music Store.

When questioned about the launch of the iTunes Music Store for Europe, Jobs replied "We're clearly working on it (but) I think we'll do it next year". Distribution rights are cited as the reason for the delay.

Jobs did reiterate that iTunes for Windows would be coming this year and claimed "We're very much on track to execute iTunes for Windows".

Meanwhile, the most recent rumors have pointed towards an October release for iTunes for Windows.
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I hate to say it but the news of October 03 iTunes Windows release and associated Windows shopping for music, is far bigger news than even the very cool PB15 news.

This will generate revenues even larger than the already successful Apple iTunes music service, and what's interesting is it drives hardware sales of iPods which are high margin items, and even though it doesn't sell software, it actually does something better than that. It sells a virtual product with very low delivery cost with near real time revenue recognition and high margins.

And does so while solving a harsh societal problem: rampant music piracy.

I hope to see G5 X-serve's soon and of course G5 Powerbooks come January. But this news about iTunes is monumental for Apple. It could be one of the few things in the past 5 years that could actually hit the stock price. And that is objective evidence of truly big news if it happens.

Rocketman


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