iTunes Sharing at Colleges

[Wash!!]

Re: Re: It has nothing to do with censorship

Originally posted by sethypoo
I don't think that this is fair statement.

We (Mac users) occupy roughly 3% of the pc market. There are less of us therefore there will be less a feeling of "bad apples" within Mac user communites because there are fewer of us to misbehave.

More pc's=more people to write hacks and viruses for them.

I don't think so even if they are no as many "Bad apples" there is more honesty in the mac community that I seen in the PC world, most of the PC user I deal with and Know always try to find a way to get something for "free" it's just the way the Pc culture is compare to the Mac community, at least in my opinion.

 

[billzeller]

> You've also failed to answer numerous questions about the original intent of your program

If there were "numerous questions", I missed them.

MyTunes was created with the intent that users could download shared, non-copyrighted music from other computers.

Is that clear enough?

 

[coolsoldier]

Re: Re: Re: It has nothing to do with censorship

Originally posted by Wash!!
I don't think so even if they are no as many "Bad apples" there is more honesty in the mac community that I seen in the PC world, most of the PC user I deal with and Know always try to find a way to get something for "free" it's just the way the Pc culture is compare to the Mac community, at least in my opinion.

Plenty of Mac users use p2p filesharing also. Why do you think we have Poisoned and Acquisition and mlMac and iSwipe and so on. I don't think windows has a monopoly on dishonesty

 

[greenstork]

Re: Re: Re: It has nothing to do with censorship

Originally posted by Wash!!
I don't think so even if they are no as many "Bad apples" there is more honesty in the mac community that I seen in the PC world, most of the PC user I deal with and Know always try to find a way to get something for "free" it's just the way the Pc culture is compare to the Mac community, at least in my opinion.

This is a sweeping generalization that further paints mac users as elitist computer snobs.

 

[coolsoldier]

Originally posted by billzeller

MyTunes was created with the intent that users could download shared, non-copyrighted music from other computers.

A noble intent (perhaps), but your program violates the letter of copyright law because it is designed to circumvent a copy protection device. I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but copying files from iTunes is a violation of the DMCA even if they aren't copyrighted songs. As very, very stupid as that is, it's still the law

 

[Wash!!]

Re: Re: Re: Re: It has nothing to do with censorship

Originally posted by coolsoldier
Plenty of Mac users use p2p filesharing also. Why do you think we have Poisoned and Acquisition and mlMac and iSwipe and so on. I don't think windows has a monopoly on dishonesty

True plenty use because there were not alternative to legally buy music on line as most the other service are PC only, hence the reason apple created the itms..But we (mac users) will try to do the "right thing" first as most pc user will not even consider it.

 

[coolsoldier]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It has nothing to do with censorship

Originally posted by Wash!!
True plenty use because there were not alternative to legally buy music on line as most the other service are PC only, hence the reason apple created the itms..But we (mac users) will try to do the "right thing" first as most pc user will not even consider it.

Maybe. If a greater proportion of Mac users buy instead of pirating music, it can be attributed to the facts that:
(a) A sizable number of Mac users are adamant to support apple at everything they do regardless of cost, and
(b) The average Mac user has more available money than the average PC user, as apple does not sell to the ultra-cheap market.

Also, I suspect there are still plenty of users on poisoned

 

[greenstork]

Originally posted by billzeller
> You've also failed to answer numerous questions about the original intent of your program

If there were "numerous questions", I missed them.

MyTunes was created with the intent that users could download shared, non-copyrighted music from other computers.

Is that clear enough?

I certainly hope Trinity College doesn't crack down on the distribution of this software from their servers. This could get ugly for you my friend.

 

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by billzeller
> You've also failed to answer numerous questions about the original intent of your program

If there were "numerous questions", I missed them.

MyTunes was created with the intent that users could download shared, non-copyrighted music from other computers.

Is that clear enough?

Funny I don't remember seeing that on your Mytunes site.


Lethal

 

[greenstork]

Originally posted by LethalWolfe
Funny I don't remember seeing that on your Mytunes site.


Lethal

It's certainly not like he's emphasizing it but it does say something about copyright infringement is illegal on the absolute bottom of the page. His intentions were obviously pure, how could we flame him about it

 

[billzeller]

No, but you may remember this:

"by using MyTunes you agree to not use it in any manner which may be considered illegal."

"Use at your own risk."

"And remember, copyright infringement is illegal."

Before MyTunes came http://one2ohmygod.sourceforge.net/ , http://www.etek.chalmers.se/~lernvall/itdlgui2.tgz ,iSlurp ,http://ileech.sourceforge.net/ , and http://isuck.h3q.com/

All for the mac, all allow (or allowed, before the current version of iTunes) you to download shared music. Yes, on the mac. Yes, the platform that you self-righteous b******* (excuse my language, but I feel it appropriate) claim no illegality would ever touch.

This argument could last forever, but I have neither the time or the energy to continue. I'm sure, if you all get your wish, I'll face enough of that shortly.

So throw your best shot, I won't be listening.

 

[eyelikeart]

before this gets out of hand...

try and relax some...m'kay?

 

[greenstork]

Originally posted by billzeller
No, but you may remember this:

"by using MyTunes you agree to not use it in any manner which may be considered illegal."

"Use at your own risk."

"And remember, copyright infringement is illegal."

Before MyTunes came http://one2ohmygod.sourceforge.net/ , http://www.etek.chalmers.se/~lernvall/itdlgui2.tgz ,iSlurp ,http://ileech.sourceforge.net/ , and http://isuck.h3q.com/

All for the mac, all allow (or allowed, before the current version of iTunes) you to download shared music. Yes, on the mac. Yes, the platform that you self-righteous bas*tards (excuse my language, but I feel it appropriate) claim no illegality would ever touch.

This argument could last forever, but I have neither the time or the energy to continue. I'm sure, if you all get your wish, I'll face enough of that shortly.

So throw your best shot, I won't be listening.

I'm not self-righteous, only self-interested. Programs like yours and the others you mentioned make it too easy to steal music. When it's too easy, record companies take notice. Since many developers hide behind the thin veil of legality, the program itself ends up getting crippled because the RIAA can pressure Apple (read iTunes 4.0.1). So perhaps I am selfish since I have seen what programs like your can do for ease of use. The more successful your program is, the more likely that iTunes users will get screwed. If Rendevous sharing were removed from iTunes, make no mistake, this would be a tragedy.

 

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by billzeller
No, but you may remember this:

"by using MyTunes you agree to not use it in any manner which may be considered illegal."

"Use at your own risk."

"And remember, copyright infringement is illegal."

Before MyTunes came http://one2ohmygod.sourceforge.net/ , http://www.etek.chalmers.se/~lernvall/itdlgui2.tgz ,iSlurp ,http://ileech.sourceforge.net/ , and http://isuck.h3q.com/

All for the mac, all allow (or allowed, before the current version of iTunes) you to download shared music. Yes, on the mac. Yes, the platform that you self-righteous bas*tards (excuse my language, but I feel it appropriate) claim no illegality would ever touch.

This argument could last forever, but I have neither the time or the energy to continue. I'm sure, if you all get your wish, I'll face enough of that shortly.

So throw your best shot, I won't be listening.

I remember the disclaimers but you still never stated the purpose of MyTunes as being soley for downloading uncopyrighted music from other iTunes users. Not that it matters though because MyTunes still circumvents iTunes built in copyprotection.

Anyway, don't forget to post after someone from your school or Apple approaches you about MyTunes. Like I said, I'm curious to see how long it will take. Again, anyone want to start a pool?


Lethal

 

[arn]

Hey all.

MyTunes is a tool, like many others, which can be used for illegal activities, or could be used very legitimately.

arn

 

[Rower_CPU]

Exactly. And unfortunately, Apple had to take the ability to stream across subnets out of iTunes thanks to apps like iSlurp et al. The continuation of this on local subnets will either force Apple to remove sharing altogether or result in a crack down on the app writers/users.

 

[JohnGillilan]

Illegality of MyTunes

I am a Music Industry Major at USC, and we have spent the last month studying digital music distribution over the Internet. As I have a midterm tomarrow, I came across some information that seems quite relevant to the topic at hand.

In 1998, Congress passed the Digital Millenium Copyright Act.

The act basically made it a crime to circumvent anti-piracy measures and extended liability to indirect infringers (i.e. Bill Zellar/MyTunes). Using the "wheel man" concept, this law can hold one individual accountable for the actions of others. MyTunes would fall under a "contributory infringement" violation, as it gives a material contribution (provides the means) to the copyright infringers.

I would argue that Apple/RIAA could take legal action based on this information. Any thoughts??

 

[coolsoldier]

Re: Illegality of MyTunes

Originally posted by JohnGillilan

I would argue that Apple/RIAA could take legal action based on this information. Any thoughts??

It would depend entirely on whether MyTunes has any use other than circumventing iTunes copy protection. It seems to me that it doesn't, so yes, MyTunes is probably illegal under the DMCA.

 

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by arn
Hey all.

MyTunes is a tool, like many others, which can be used for illegal activities, or could be used very legitimately.

arn

I fail to see an legit use for MyTunes if all it does is circumvent copy protection/anti-pirating measures in iTunes and allow d/l'ing of other peoples shared music. If, for example, it was an all round recording app, like Audio Hijack or something, then that's one thing, but it doesn't sound like it is.

Also, this brings up an interesting possibility. If person A is sharing their own copyright songs via iTunes and person B uses an app such as iTunes to d/l those copyright righted songs w/o person A's permission, would person A have any legal recourse (either civil or criminal)?


Lethal

 

[JohnGillilan]

On that note, could person A (the person who's music is being shared from) be held accountable for contributory infringement if their music is copied ala MyTunes??

 

[segastyle]

mytunes is besides the point

billzeller, i appreciate the fact that you were willing to present yourself on this forum for discussion.

everyone here is missing the real point -- mytunes is just one program in hundreds that allows you to download copyrighted material. that should not prevent apple from allowing sharing features in itunes. i mean come on...if you're in a dorm, and you want the copy the music someone is sharing, what's to stop you from walking down the hall and burning it onto a disc from their computer (that would even include aac or wma protected music).

apple has the contracts with the record labels, they are proving their business model to be a winner, so dammit, reintroduce internet sharing! i want to be able to try out music that itunes doesn't have yet. i want to have found a great new band and be able to let my friend going to school all the way in chreighton to be able to check it out.

 

[LethalWolfe]

Re: mytunes is besides the point

Originally posted by segastyle
billzeller, i appreciate the fact that you were willing to present yourself on this forum for discussion.

everyone here is missing the real point -- mytunes is just one program in hundreds that allows you to download copyrighted material. that should not prevent apple from allowing sharing features in itunes. i mean come on...if you're in a dorm, and you want the copy the music someone is sharing, what's to stop you from walking down the hall and burning it onto a disc from their computer (that would even include aac or wma protected music).

apple has the contracts with the record labels, they are proving their business model to be a winner, so dammit, reintroduce internet sharing! i want to be able to try out music that itunes doesn't have yet. i want to have found a great new band and be able to let my friend going to school all the way in chreighton to be able to check it out.

The business model will no longer be a winner if it turns into another kazaa. The labels will not support Apple if they let users turn iTunes into a pirates paradise. If the labels don't support Apple there is no more iTMS. If there is no iTMS iTunes, the iPod, and Apple take a major hit. IIRC the major labels only signed up for a 1 agreement w/Apple and iTMS so if Apple does not keep things ship shape the labels will just drop iTMS.

Apple has tried it's best to have the most relaxed DRM and give people the most freedom w/their music, but w/that freedom comes responsibility and unfortunetly enough users have repeatedly shown that they are irrisponsible by abusing that freedom.

Why don't you focus on the cause of the problem (the people taking advantage of Apple's attempt to provide a superior product w/great features) and not the symptom (Apple removing features in an effort to keep the iTMS open and not get sued by the RIAA)?

Since it's already a piece of cake to pirate music via other means why doesn't everyone just do that and not f**k up iTunes for the rest of us?


Lethal

 

[coolsoldier]

iTunes will not turn into "another kazaa". You have no ability to search, and with a few smart technological moves, they can prevent file stream hijacking. As far as recording the audio to get a file, I envision people doing the same thing with napster-style "unlimited streaming" programs.

 

[arn]

Originally posted by LethalWolfe
I fail to see an legit use for MyTunes if all it does is circumvent copy protection/anti-pirating measures in iTunes and allow d/l'ing of other peoples shared music.

The usual intended use for iTunes sharing is through local home networks.

My PC Laptop <-> My PowerMac

I have a song on my PowerMac that I want on my PC Laptop for whatever reason. I copy the song over the share.

I could also mount my PowerMac's drive or something... but I'm listening to the song I want right now... why bother?

arn

 

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by coolsoldier
iTunes will not turn into "another kazaa". You have no ability to search, and with a few smart technological moves, they can prevent file stream hijacking. As far as recording the audio to get a file, I envision people doing the same thing with napster-style "unlimited streaming" programs.

I meant if Apple left the sharing over internet as it originally was iTunes, especially once released for windows, could have become a huge pirateing mess because of things like iSwipe and MyTunes. And I'm it would't be too hard to create an app that would automatically search all the sharred play lists (which would obviously be much faster than loading each list and using iTunes search function).

arn, isn't your example still illegal under the wonderfully popular DMCA sense MyTunes circumvents anti-copying measures in iTunes?


Lethal