'iTV' Availability: Late January/Early February?

[ezekielrage_99]

I must say I'm excited about the iTV...it could be the biggest thing of 2007 as far as home entertainment is concerned.

Or it could be another Mac TV.

I'm pumped though, and I can't see Steve not giving details at MWSF. It would suck if it's a paper launch due to software bugs...I hate paper launches.

Computer power has come along way since the Mac TV and remember Apple doesn't make the same mistake more than once (yeah I know the Mighty Mouse is still rubbish).

Not addressing bugs is a Microsoft thing

 

[ezekielrage_99]

So here are my predictions for MacWorld 2007
Pre-View of Leopard with bit-torrent.
iTV with new base stations and cards (need the speed!)
New iPods – one as the true Video iPod
New iLife Apps, some how tied to the .mac subscription for movie downloads, via the Apple Bit-Torrent and the possible addition or name change for iTunes to show that movies are available.
And the iPhone

That's a pretty good call not sure about the iPhone (I think it's very wishfull thinking), but I do think we will see a quiet Mac Pro, iMac update and a new iSight product.

 

[emotion]

I doubt we'll see OSX on this class of device. More likely is a platform based on Portal Player's OS (or the Apple alternative that's in the nano (?)) that runs what looks like Dashboard and Frontrow.

I could be way off though, but we'll see this month.

 

[emotion]

That's a pretty good call not sure about the iPhone (I think it's very wishfull thinking), but I do think we will see a quiet Mac Pro, iMac update and a new iSight product.

Don't forget the L7400 based 12" macbook ultra-portable .

 

[digitalbiker]

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the difference between 1080i and 1080p, but they're both 1920x1080, one simply transmits at 60fps interlaced while the other is half the framerate, but progressive. Since 1080p flat-panel TVs are inherently progressive, they will deinterlace a 1080i signal and display it as 24/30fps 1080p, with very nearly identical results to a straight 1080p transmission. See this article

Correct me if I'm wrong.

This seems correct to me as long as your DLP, LCD, or Plasma is 1920X1080 native resolution or greater you should be OK.

The only thing that bugs me a bit about this information is that I can currently directly compare 480i to 480p on LCDs and DLPs today and I can see a difference. It seems like if frame rate and interlacing were the only issues that differentiate these transmissions then these displays should be identical as well. I can definitely tell you that they aren't.

 

[dernhelm]

In theory this sounds great, but wouldn't it create similar problems to licensing the OS for other PC vendors?

No, actually. Or at least I wouldn't think so. They could reasonably tighten down on the hardware specs they support (something nearly impossible for a user-installed OS). Since they would only be supporting it with vendors that have contracts with them they would also have less to worry about in terms of loss of income from people "sharing" copies of OS/X lite.

Apple could rig it so other device manufacturers could OS/X lite and nobody would even need to know it. Or they could go the Microsoft route, and make sure that their logos are stamped all over it (apple inside, or osx lite, or whatever).

 

[Peel]

The problem with the TiVo series 3 (the only non-DirecTV HD TiVo) is that it's $800 for the box alone and doesn't work with all sources of HD (e.g. DirecTV, non CableCard cable). The iTV (if done right) will compete nicely with it. Makes more sense to me to buy a Mac Mini and EyeTV Hybrid.

B

The TiVo S3 Does work with non-cablecard cable. Perhaps you meant non-cablecard digital cable. That would be true, but now all cable providers in th US are required by the FCC to make cablecards available to their subscribers. I have an S3, but no digital cable, it works fine with the analog cable (recording 2 shows at once) and, as seems to be the trend here, I've got the Terk antenna to pull HD content in over the air.

 

[Peel]

This seems correct to me as long as your DLP, LCD, or Plasma is 1920X1080 native resolution or greater you should be OK.

The only thing that bugs me a bit about this information is that I can currently directly compare 480i to 480p on LCDs and DLPs today and I can see a difference. It seems like if frame rate and interlacing were the only issues that differentiate these transmissions then these displays should be identical as well. I can definitely tell you that they aren't.

The difference between 480i and 480p (assuming that the source material was at this rate) is that the interlaced is shown at 60 half frames (each is called a field) per second, and each of these half frames are shot 1/60 of a second apart. So when you combine 480i to be shown on 480p equipment the two half frames get put together, but as they were not shot at the same time, they are slightly out of sync - especially for fast motion shots. The result is that the image looks slightly fuzzy, as the two half frames don't line up precisely.

This is because material originally shot at 480i was recorded at 60 fields per second. The video being put to 1080i or 1080p is not, it's either a film transfer (24fps) or shot with an HD camera. If that HD camera is a 720p, then your only scaling the data, not de-interlacing it. The only chance would be if it's shot with a 1080i cam, but as I understand it they save the data as 60 fields per second, but they're not shot with a 1/60th second offset between fields, so they combine better.

 

[moonislune]

Ditto! Did the same.

I already ditched my cable about a month ago... and I'm not loathing the idea of saving $85 a month either.

Ditto. Did the same. It's nice to have a cheap cable bill (only for internet). I set up EyeTV with a $99 WinTV-HVR-950 and it makes a great media center. I control it with my phone via bluetooth and sailingclicker. over a dozen HD channels in my area makes it very tolerable.

 

[dmelgar]

How is iTV different than a Mac Mini?

Why would iTV be any better than a Mini? I wanted to buy the original mini as a media center, but I didn't when I realized that there was no digital audio output.

The new Intel Mac Mini has digital audio output and input and comes with FrontRow and includes a remote. It can hook up to your TV with DVI and adapters to composite and S-Video.

It doesn't record, but neither does iTV. It only has a 2.5" hard drive limiting the capacity for local storage, but so does iTV.

With a Mini, you can also surf the web, use your LCD TV as a monitor to keep the kids surfing in public. Can watch online videos such as youTube, weather, etc.

I'm excited at the idea of iTV, but I'm leaning towards buying a Mini when Leopard comes out.

 

[digitalbiker]

The difference between 480i and 480p (assuming that the source material was at this rate) is that the interlaced is shown at 60 half frames (each is called a field) per second, and each of these half frames are shot 1/60 of a second apart. So when you combine 480i to be shown on 480p equipment the two half frames get put together, but as they were not shot at the same time, they are slightly out of sync - especially for fast motion shots. The result is that the image looks slightly fuzzy, as the two half frames don't line up precisely.

This is because material originally shot at 480i was recorded at 60 fields per second. The video being put to 1080i or 1080p is not, it's either a film transfer (24fps) or shot with an HD camera. If that HD camera is a 720p, then your only scaling the data, not de-interlacing it. The only chance would be if it's shot with a 1080i cam, but as I understand it they save the data as 60 fields per second, but they're not shot with a 1/60th second offset between fields, so they combine better.

I never considered the source material but that does make sense. So do you know the process for film transfer? Do they interpolate frames to 60 fps before transcribing to 1080i?

 

[Sport73]

I think people are reading too much into the presence of HDMI and Component in the iTV in terms of functionality at launch. I expect it to be released with NO Change in the quality of iTunes downloads. They will be 640x480 as they are today, but your iPhoto library will stream in HD resolution, as will your home made movies (if shot with an HD camcorder).Later in the year, Apple will begin to release a select number of HD Movies and TV shows. They're simply planning ahead, and I thank them for it.

If they launched the iTV for standard def resolutions as are on the store today, we'd all be a little peeved with the 2nd gen HD unit came out. People don't replace home electronics gear with the same frequency that they will an iPod, so Apple knows that they have to build a box that is at least a little bit 'future-proof'.

I'm ordering an iTV the minute it becomes available. I've already tried twice to set up a Mac Mini as a HT Mac, but the resolution is never quite right and the need to go into OSX actually hampers the experience of the device as a pure 'utility'.

 

[emaja]

As long as iTV allows for proper streaming of my legally ripped DVDs onto my LCD set, I am all for it...300 bucks are nothing compared to whatever hassle I will save in terms of boring disc swapping in my Sony DVD player...bring it on APPLE!

Although that would indeed be sweet, in the US where Apple is based, there is no such thing as a legally ripped DVD. Say what you want to say about the stupidity of that part of the DMCA, but the very act of breaking the encryption on a commercially available DVD is illegal here. I doubt that Apple would make something that will tweak the nose of the MPAA or RIAA.

There may be an out for Apple on this one. I can rip DVDs on my PC, transcode them with Transcode360 and stream them to my Xbox 360. Maybe if Microsoft looked the other way on this matter, Apple could too.

Wishful thinking maybe, but it would be sweet.

I agree that it is dangerous to assume that the iTV will succeed. Apple is introducing an all-new kind of device. While it very well could turn out to be a hit a la iPod, it could easily fail; the iPod's appeal alone will not buoy an all-new class of Apple products.

Depending on what it will do, it may not be an all-new type of device. Apple took the clunky MP3 player and turned it into the very elegant iPod. Imagine what they could do if they combined the TiVO and SlingBox technology. Add to that the fact that they could also deliver content to directly from their servers.

Sounds pretty sweet to me, but we will have to wait.

 

[OdduWon]

Apple Network

With more than one iTV, could you have access to all the content, from one computer, on multiple screens at the same time?

This would be a good solution to some cable or satellite setups where two tv's have to share the same box. Which means they have to watch the same thing.

Now if apple hooked up with the service providers, they could network some sort of Pay-per copy/download of an episode they saw while channel surfing.

or more likely Apple will create a "network" with "channels" providing some sort or .Mac style account to gain access to all the material. like monthly subscription cable or satellite. This seems to have connection to something that was on the iTMS last month, i can't find it now but, it was like PANDORA, a program that played music it "Thinks you like" based on your iTunes library ( "you bought ___" . "you own ____"). My thoughts of the iTMS service were that it should have been sampling one or my playlists or my top rated/most played. It kept throwing some funky stuff at me. (three very different tastes in music sharing 30 gigs of library space). So this may have been a research project for the APPLE NETWORK.

 

[Peel]

I never considered the source material but that does make sense. So do you know the process for film transfer? Do they interpolate frames to 60 fps before transcribing to 1080i?

Here's a link to an article in Home Theater Magazine that explains 2:3 pulldown to 1080, that has a helpful illustration. The article also demonstrates that when the source is 24fps (i.e. film) there is no real difference between 1080i and 1080p, as they both go through the 2:3 pulldown process.

 

[balamw]

I think people are reading too much into the presence of HDMI and Component in the iTV in terms of functionality at launch.

I think the bigger question is why composite and S-video were conspicuous by their absence.

With a Mini, you can also surf the web, use your LCD TV as a monitor to keep the kids surfing in public. Can watch online videos such as youTube, weather, etc.

I'm excited at the idea of iTV, but I'm leaning towards buying a Mini when Leopard comes out.

FWIW I used the exact same arguments and ended up buying the iMac for the living room, precisely because you can have dual displays which is impossible with a Mini. This way one kid can be watching iTunes video on the TV and the other can be surfing the web or looking at iPhoto slideshows on the iMac display. I also plan to buy the iTV to further facilitate this.

B

 

[rikers_mailbox]

Beyond software "quality issues", I find it likely that the timing of iTV's release is also in consideration. Consumers can't be asked to buy too much at once. I think the iTV market overlaps with Wii or PS3 folks, and especially people who own a nice Plamsa/LCD. The price points hit about the same too.

I say wait for the holiday spending hangover to cure and then unleash this thing.

 

[BeyondCloister]

Whilst TiVo pulled out of selling in the UK market (bah humbug, the rotters), they still supply the programme guide here. There is also an active 'hackers' community to keep our Series 1 boxes alive - and Mac compatible

Not much use to the average consumer on the street though is it?
Also the TiVo name has hardly any brand recognition.

 

[50548]

Although that would indeed be sweet, in the US where Apple is based, there is no such thing as a legally ripped DVD. Say what you want to say about the stupidity of that part of the DMCA, but the very act of breaking the encryption on a commercially available DVD is illegal here. I doubt that Apple would make something that will tweak the nose of the MPAA or RIAA.

There may be an out for Apple on this one. I can rip DVDs on my PC, transcode them with Transcode360 and stream them to my Xbox 360. Maybe if Microsoft looked the other way on this matter, Apple could too.

Wishful thinking maybe, but it would be sweet.

Sure...in fact, it's incredible how the DMCA still lives on in the US...what a piece of legal garbage it is.

The fact of the matter is that Apple doesn't need to dirty its fingers with mud here...it may just leave the possibility open, as it is nowadays with CDs...and why so?

Because not all DVDs are copy-protected, especially older or homemade ones. This constitutes an obvious legal door for Apple to do that, as it is not, in any way, breaking the current (and stupid) US laws:

1 - it is NOT breaking any copy-protection;
2 - it is NOT providing any anti-circumvention mechanism.

 

[MikeDTyke]

Other features of the iTV

A lot of people have been commenting on the obvious announced features of the iTV, but it seems to me the most interesting part will be the stuff jobs left out.

The fact that the frontrow interface shown back in Sept was effectively unchanged from what exists already seemed to imply at least to me that this was a quick n dirty demo version and that frontrow 2.0 would be much more polished.

I'm eager to see the integration between leopard and iTV. What sort of data formats/application types will exist on both platforms. ie. will we see dashboard plugins? I'm think yes as an announced feature of leopard is dashboard syncing via .mac.

Will we be able to view incoming email, ical alerts, rss feeds? They're all candidates, and what will help make iTV popular in areas where the content deals aren't signed. eh? ITS movies and tv for europe pretty please.

Will we be able to remotely view a mac desktop, unlikely, but wouldn't it be cool to play counterstrike on darwine running on the macpro upstairs, sitting in front of ones 40 inch lcd tv?

M.

 

[goosnarrggh]

I think the bigger question is why composite and S-video were conspicuous by their absence.

Well that one would be understandable if Apple wants to market this thing as primarily a purveyor of big-studio commercial HD content. When HDCP becomes commonplace, you won't be allowed to send full-quality content with the encryption flag set, through any unauthorized or unencrypted communication channel -- the FCC is seeing to that. That means that all analog ports are out of the question.

It also renders the Mac Mini's DVI port obsolete since even digital DVI doesn't support content encryption.

But I think there are provisions to allow the transmission of decrypted HD content as long as it has been artificially downgraded to non-HD quality first. So that might be output through the DVI port, and Apple already has adaptors to convert DVI signals into various analog schemes like VGA, S-video etc. Why waste money building those ports into the device when you can charge people extra for the adaptors?

- Luke

 

[ezekielrage_99]

Don't forget the L7400 based 12" macbook ultra-portable .

That would be cool, I'd buy it

I think we will see the GMA 950 upgraded to the newer GMA X3000 also.... well my fingers are crossed on that one.

 

[WilliamLondon]

Wouldn't it be cool if it tied seamlessly into Elgato's EyeTV and you were allowed to watch streaming/live television in addition to the recorded programmes, therefore not requiring additional tuners and freeing your television to sit anywhere in your home, only being restricted by the power lead??

 

[Goldfinger]

I think the bigger question is why composite and S-video were conspicuous by their absence.

I agree. I can understand no composite. But no S-video ? come on.

Also, no SCART RGB for Europe would mean zero sales IMHO. I wouldn't buy one if it only has component or HDMI.

There are VERY few TVs with component in Europe. Only the newer ones have it but they have HDMI as well. Also, HDTV isn't nearly that popular in Europe which means that a LOT of people haven't switched to HDTVs with HDMI.
Almost all TVs sold in Europe have RGB SCART.

But there's always the possibility that they offer a version with SCART and HDMI for Europe. I'd really like to see that.

 

[Half Glass]

Wouldn't it be cool if it tied seamlessly into Elgato's EyeTV and you were allowed to watch streaming/live television in addition to the recorded programmes, therefore not requiring additional tuners and freeing your television to sit anywhere in your home, only being restricted by the power lead??

I second that notion! Just got a MigliaTVMini HD (uses EyeTV also) and love it! **But,** true love would be the ability to stream recordings *sans commercials* to my big screen!

That plus HD pictures plus consumer HD camcorders likely hitting the $700 range this year is where the iTV would be an awesome product that I would grab in a heartbeat!

--Carl