Japan Preparing to Regulate Big Tech in Collaboration with U.S. and Europe

[deevey]

What responsibilty? Can you point to a law that requires Twitter to provide equal access to anyone who wants it and removes their right to free expression? Not just that you think they should, but that they're required to?

Rights are inherent in the US, the 9th and 10th amendments basically say that all rights not assigned to the states or fed are retained by the people. Courts have generally ruled that those rights also belong to "non person entities".
You have the right to punch people in the face but those people have the right to put you in jail and seek civil restitution for it because you infringed on their right to not be punched in the face.

You have a front yard, it's privately owned but publicly accessible property (like Twitter). Your argument can easily be used to say that I should be allowed to put signs in your front yard even if you don't like them there, or what I have to say on them.

If you edit the narrative or others, or censor stories that don't fit in your companies point of view, you are a Publisher and the social media giants should be subject to those restrictions and scrutiny (or something similar).

In Myanmar for example, Facebook IS the internet and the only online source of information - nothing else exists, so by extension, it's true.

 

[Eriden]

What responsibilty? Can you point to a law that requires Twitter to provide equal access to anyone who wants it and removes their right to free expression? Not just that you think they should, but that they're required to?

If Twitter, Facebook, Apple, and others want to act as Publishers, they can. They should then be treated as publishers and lose the liability shield that Section 230 provides. Then they can and should be sued for every tweet or post that calls for the death of someone or defames someone.

 

[deevey]

I don't know what version of Windows 10 you are installing, but Windows 10 I downloaded from Microsoft is only Windows 10.

Windows 10 ISO build 2004 downloaded a couple weeks back from MS

I'm not the only one

How to Stop Windows from Installing Apps Without Permission

If you're frustrated about the bloatware you don't need, here you will learn how to stop Windows 10 from installing apps without permission.

windowsreport.com

 

[deevey]

If Twitter, Facebook, Apple, and others want to act as Publishers, they can. They should then be treated as publishers and lose the liability shield that Section 230 provides. Then they can and should be sued for every tweet or post that calls for the death of someone or defames someone.

I can't say I agree that they should be held responsible for every persons posts, thats a very deep rabbit hole that would impact free speech across every forum and blog site and social network across the globe. Should posts calling for the harm of others (in any way) be removed ASAP? Of course, no question.

However they should be held responsible for blatantly removing non-illegal material that is not inflammatory.

Trial by social media e.g. Should be censored. Many people have had their entire lives destroyed over a viral video of them simply having an extremely bad day. If it's something illegal, forward the damn video to the authorities. I'm sure they will release it to the "real" press if its actually newsworthy. Posting "This guy refused to wear a mask in starbucks" is the type of petty crap that has society in the mess it's in.

Bottom line though, there does need to be massive revisions to the laws governing search engines, forums and social media.

 

[mdriftmeyer]

Level the playing field in a well-regulated system of Capitalism. In the end, Apple will do equal or better than they are now and keep moving the ease-of-use and consistent performance, across the board with quality hardware/software and if you're a third party OEM you'd be a fool not to partner with them.

 

[SurferPup]

Governments are becoming scared of monolithic technology organisations as they are everything Governments are not. These private companies are progressive by creating real jobs that provide products and services that consumers want. Governments create artificial job markets by spending tax payers money plus their regulation creates a need for more staff resulting in a larger Government. I cannot understand anyone who criticises a company that provides a conduit connecting developers and users in an effortless and real time marketplace. The benefits that Apple directly and indirectly provides by their ethos and business practices to many people worldwide is immense: renewable energy generation; mercury free created products; recycling materials; better work conditions in factories; job creation in many industries even to the extent of transportation; safety and welfare of their staff on a global basis. Governments encourage a society feudal regression by imposing various taxes: fuel excises, GST, income tax, corporation taxes, capital gains tax and in return the majority of us receive services that we do not want. The consumer protection regulation is extreme in Australia - Apple has to provide Australians and other people living here a two year warranty. Because of Government regulation in Australia we still have no access to ECG monitoring on our Apple watches and the price we pay for products is exorbitant. $1699, this is the cost of an iPhone 12 Pro here. I PAID this price before trading in my iPhone XS as MY Government's tax and regulation costs ME this much so I can buy this PRODUCT. Whatever rules a Government enforces on any private enterprise will cost them money and who pays for Government regulation? The consumer - I am a consumer.

 

[Analog Kid]

You have the right to punch people in the face but those people have the right to put you in jail and seek civil restitution for it because you infringed on their right to not be punched in the face.

You do not have the right to punch people in the face as evidenced by the fact you can be jailed for it. The people being punched don’t have a right to imprison you, the government does. The people being punched may have a right to defend themselves by punching you back, however.

Having a right to do something explicitly means you don’t need to fear the state taking punitive measures against you. I think you're confusing having the ability to do something and the right to do it.

 

[subi257]

That would require the Govt. to respect your right to privacy, and your right to choose.

Not Orwellian enough for 2020.

That would require the Govt. to respect your right to privacy, and your right to choose....Agreed, that would be a very good thing, but a lot of the people that are complaining about the government putting their nose in your/our lives (the people in general) sadly, these will be the same people that are constantly trying to impose their values and opinions on everybody too....sadly. "We" seem to have an issue with live "your own life" and leave everyone else be. 🙏

 

[IIGS User]

This thread is an interesting read on the subject.

I've seen some people express the sentiment in regards to the NY Post article that the post is "garbage" and not worthy of having their reporting disseminated.

I'll say this. If you think the Post is garbage, this is EXACTLY WHY you should advocate for the Post's reporting to be disseminated.

First, if you think it's garbage, let people see it and call it out for the garbage it is. If it smells like garbage, and it tastes like garbage, then people will see it for what it is.

Second, if you think it's garbage, and you don't agree with it, you should be the one fighting for it's right to be heard! As a member of human society that believes in free expression and the free exchange of ideas, you should be the one making sure everyone hears and sees this "garbage". That people have the opportunity to take in the information they see and assess it for themselves.

If not, then you're really just an advocate for YOUR position, and not for freedom of expression or information. At that point, you're your own little minister of propaganda, and you've surrendered any intellectual honesty on the subject...

 

[Darth Tulhu]

Sorry sir, but I have to call you out on this one.

Every country has "shenanigans" in their past. Every last one. Every religion, every race, every ethnicity.

That being said. Japanese "shenanigans" during WWII put them in a league all their own.

I mean they DID align themselves with Nazi Germany. Just for starters. I think you're fighting an uphill battle on this one...

Except Japan aligned with Nazi Germany: ~1940-1945

United States ~1776-today:

The OP I responded to called Japan out.

So again: I wouldn't throw stones in glass houses.

 

[boss.king]

Governments are becoming scared of monolithic technology organisations as they are everything Governments are not. These private companies are progressive by creating real jobs that provide products and services that consumers want. Governments create artificial job markets by spending tax payers money plus their regulation creates a need for more staff resulting in a larger Government. I cannot understand anyone who criticises a company that provides a conduit connecting developers and users in an effortless and real time marketplace. The benefits that Apple directly and indirectly provides by their ethos and business practices to many people worldwide is immense: renewable energy generation; mercury free created products; recycling materials; better work conditions in factories; job creation in many industries even to the extent of transportation; safety and welfare of their staff on a global basis. Governments encourage a society feudal regression by imposing various taxes: fuel excises, GST, income tax, corporation taxes, capital gains tax and in return the majority of us receive services that we do not want. The consumer protection regulation is extreme in Australia - Apple has to provide Australians and other people living here a two year warranty. Because of Government regulation in Australia we still have no access to ECG monitoring on our Apple watches and the price we pay for products is exorbitant. $1699, this is the cost of an iPhone 12 Pro here. I PAID this price before trading in my iPhone XS as MY Government's tax and regulation costs ME this much so I can buy this PRODUCT. Whatever rules a Government enforces on any private enterprise will cost them money and who pays for Government regulation? The consumer - I am a consumer.

Just to add some context to the complaint about price:

An iPhone 12 Pro 128 GB is USD 999, but that excludes tax. This makes it hard to calculate, but taking 5% as sales tax (Google tells me this a rough average of sales tax for the States) that number is now USD 1050.

Then there's the second year of warranty that you get, which at 9.99/month (Apple doesn't seem to sell a single year of AC) gets you to USD 1170

That converts to AUD 1645.

That leaves AUD 54 unaccounted for. Not exactly an exorbitant price hike. In fact, at times it might not even fully account for changes in currency conversion.

EDIT: You can disagree all you want, but the numbers don't lie.

 

[ackmondual]

The likes of Apple, Google, Microsoft, and Amazon have about as much money as the US government, if not more. They need extra oversight IMO.

 

[IIGS User]

Except Japan aligned with Nazi Germany: ~1940-1945

United States ~1776-today:

The OP I responded to called Japan out.

So again: I wouldn't throw stones in glass houses.

What a terrible self serving attempt at moral equivalency. So in response to such atrocities as:

The Nanking Massacre

Banka Island Massacre

The Bataan Death March

The Sandakan Death March

Kokoda Track (including cannibalism)

Sexual enslavement of "comfort women"

War crimes deaths ranging from 3 to 14 million due to human experimentation, starvation, forced labor, the use of mustard gas on Chinese troops, torturing enemy prisoners of war, attacks on hospital ships, AND formal apologies issued by the Japanese government.

You post pictures of a couple rednecks at a political rally with a couple of flags? THAT's your argument? THAT's your rebuttal? To MILLIONS OF DEAD INNOCENTS. That's all you got?

Dude, that's like. Beyond weak. Try harder.....

 

[boss.king]

What a terrible self serving attempt at moral equivalency. So in response to such atrocities as:

The Nanking Massacre

Banka Island Massacre

The Bataan Death March

The Sandakan Death March

Kokoda Track (including cannibalism)

Sexual enslavement of "comfort women"

War crimes deaths ranging from 3 to 14 million due to human experimentation, starvation, forced labor, the use of mustard gas on Chinese troops, torturing enemy prisoners of war, attacks on hospital ships, AND formal apologies issued by the Japanese government.

You post pictures of a couple rednecks at a political rally with a couple of flags? THAT's your argument? THAT's your rebuttal? To MILLIONS OF DEAD INNOCENTS. That's all you got?

Dude, that's like. Beyond weak. Try harder.....

I’m not picking sides here, both countries clearly have some atrocities in their closets, but I think his point was about the ideologies and associated acts that those flags represent - the 400 years of slavery and the continued existence of white supremacy in America. This also ignores genocide of countless tribes of indigenous people. I wouldn’t be surprised if America’s tally of slaughtered innocents was right up there alongside Japans.

 

[Analog Kid]

This thread is an interesting read on the subject.

I've seen some people express the sentiment in regards to the NY Post article that the post is "garbage" and not worthy of having their reporting disseminated.

I'll say this. If you think the Post is garbage, this is EXACTLY WHY you should advocate for the Post's reporting to be disseminated.

First, if you think it's garbage, let people see it and call it out for the garbage it is. If it smells like garbage, and it tastes like garbage, then people will see it for what it is.

Second, if you think it's garbage, and you don't agree with it, you should be the one fighting for it's right to be heard! As a member of human society that believes in free expression and the free exchange of ideas, you should be the one making sure everyone hears and sees this "garbage". That people have the opportunity to take in the information they see and assess it for themselves.

If not, then you're really just an advocate for YOUR position, and not for freedom of expression or information. At that point, you're your own little minister of propaganda, and you've surrendered any intellectual honesty on the subject...

I'm not going to use the NY Post as an example here because I don't know much about it as a news source other than the fact that's it's generated some controversy this past week in the latest US election cycle-- so it's almost impossible to use it as a neutral example right now.


In general though, I think what you're highlighting is the conflict between the ideal of free expression and enlightened debate and the reality that a lie can travel around the world before the truth finishes tying its shoes.

I generally believe that the best response to bad speech is more speech. As someone who tries to be data driven in my decision making, I prefer to take in as much information as I can, weight it appropriately, make a decision based on what I know and assign a probability that my decision could be wrong either because I have incomplete information, I've weighted the information incorrectly, or my capacity to make a good decision even with good information is limited.

The fundamental problem is that people don't have time or energy to look at all the information or have the background to weight it correctly. There's also a growing industry in misinformation intended specifically to exploit peoples desire to take a balanced approach to their thinking and their human tendency to be swayed by passions and fears.


So, with that in mind, I distinguish between "garbage" and opinions I disagree with. I can learn from opinions I disagree with, and better understanding those viewpoints makes it more possible to find reasonable compromise positions. What I would call garbage is data that is simply factually wrong, manufactured without basis, or intentionally distorted to try and skew people's weighting of that information through obfuscation or FUD.

We can't learn from garbage-- it contains no information value. It's either just pushing noise into the decision making process, or it's an attempt to subvert the decision making process. Either way, it has no place in a rational discussion. Step 1 of any information processing system is data preparation, and garbage data should be filtered out.


Knowing that I can learn from opinions I disagree with, what are my responsibilities when they arise? Should I be advocating to have them more widely distributed? I think the answer to that is, no. It's a zero sum game. People have limited capacity to consume information and I don't see a need to go out of my way to make sure those people put additional attention on the views I disagree with at the expese of the ones I agree with. Among other reasons, I can't expect reciprocity from those holding opinions different from mine in ensuring that my views reach a broader audience.

I'm not merely an information processor myself-- I'm a source of speech and am free to express my own views. That is how societal norms are established-- over time some views grow in prominence in the discussion and others fade away. I don't have an obligation to resurrect ideas that have faded away and even less obligation for those that I disagree with.

 

[Darth Tulhu]

What a terrible self serving attempt at moral equivalency. So in response to such atrocities as:

The Nanking Massacre

Banka Island Massacre

The Bataan Death March

The Sandakan Death March

Kokoda Track (including cannibalism)

Sexual enslavement of "comfort women"

War crimes deaths ranging from 3 to 14 million due to human experimentation, starvation, forced labor, the use of mustard gas on Chinese troops, torturing enemy prisoners of war, attacks on hospital ships, AND formal apologies issued by the Japanese government.

You post pictures of a couple rednecks at a political rally with a couple of flags? THAT's your argument? THAT's your rebuttal? To MILLIONS OF DEAD INNOCENTS. That's all you got?

Dude, that's like. Beyond weak. Try harder.....

For starters, I never defended Japan's attitude or crimes back then. One evil act does not justify another.

I responded to someone bringing Japan's past into question when obviously America's past is just as bad, if not worse, AND the attitudes that cause them continue to this day, hence the few pics of "a couple" but-enough-to-put-a-white-supremacist-in-the-White-House "rednecks".

But your white, what-aboutist American trigger got squeezed and instead of looking at the plank in your own eye you choose to complain about the spec in your neighbor's, so here we go:

The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor Death toll: 2,403 mostly military
The American attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki Death Toll: ~200,000+ mostly civilian

American genocide of indigenous people: ~130 million
American funded human trafficking ring (North American Slave Trade): ~12 million
Death toll of American war to end said human trafficking: ~750,000+ (and the North lost more than the South, including the President of the United States)
1890: Wounded Knee Massacre
1896: Polk County Massacre
1898: Wilmington, North Carolina Massacre
1908: Springfield, Illinois Massacre
1910: Slocum, Texas Massacre
1914: Ludlow, Colorado Massacre
1918: Porvenir Massacre in Texas
1919: Elaine, Arkansas Massacre
1920: The Ocoee, Florida Massacre
1921 Tulsa Race Massacre
1923: Rosewood, Florida Massacre
1968: Orangeburg, South Carolina Massacre
1973: UpStairs Lounge (New Orleans) Massacre
1979: Greensboro, North Carolina Massacre
2012: The Sikh Temple of Wisconsin Massacre
2015: Charleston Church Massacre

And that's just a quick Google search.

Here's a bit more from Wikipedia:

Mass racial violence in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The US has a consistent, enduring, and prevalent history of violence and disregard of (non-white, straight, or so-called "Christian") human life, while preaching freedom and equality for all.

So spare me the comparisons. The US has it's hands as dirty if not more than any other.

 

[kaycrystal626]

More censorship coming!

 

[calzon65]

Windows 10 ISO build 2004 downloaded a couple weeks back from MS

I'm not the only one

How to Stop Windows from Installing Apps Without Permission

If you're frustrated about the bloatware you don't need, here you will learn how to stop Windows 10 from installing apps without permission.

windowsreport.com

Thanks for the heads up, that is very disturbing to know.

I realize manufacturers like Dell, HP and others preload applications when you buy one of their devices, I never liked it but I understand the practice ... however ... Microsoft bundling non-Microsoft applications with a clean (golden master) version of Windows is disgusting.

 

[IIGS User]

Want to encourage reading? Get a show with Levar Burton. That, my friend is quality, and a wholesome way of getting people to read.

For starters, I never defended Japan's attitude or crimes back then. One evil act does not justify another.

I responded to someone bringing Japan's past into question when obviously America's past is just as bad, if not worse, AND the attitudes that cause them continue to this day, hence the few pics of "a couple" but-enough-to-put-a-white-supremacist-in-the-White-House "rednecks".

But your white, what-aboutist American trigger got squeezed and instead of looking at the plank in your own eye you choose to complain about the spec in your neighbor's, so here we go:

The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor Death toll: 2,403 mostly military
The American attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki Death Toll: ~200,000+ mostly civilian

American genocide of indigenous people: ~130 million
American funded human trafficking ring (North American Slave Trade): ~12 million
Death toll of American war to end said human trafficking: ~750,000+ (and the North lost more than the South, including the President of the United States)
1890: Wounded Knee Massacre
1896: Polk County Massacre
1898: Wilmington, North Carolina Massacre
1908: Springfield, Illinois Massacre
1910: Slocum, Texas Massacre
1914: Ludlow, Colorado Massacre
1918: Porvenir Massacre in Texas
1919: Elaine, Arkansas Massacre
1920: The Ocoee, Florida Massacre
1921 Tulsa Race Massacre
1923: Rosewood, Florida Massacre
1968: Orangeburg, South Carolina Massacre
1973: UpStairs Lounge (New Orleans) Massacre
1979: Greensboro, North Carolina Massacre
2012: The Sikh Temple of Wisconsin Massacre
2015: Charleston Church Massacre

And that's just a quick Google search.

Here's a bit more from Wikipedia:

Mass racial violence in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The US has a consistent, enduring, and prevalent history of violence and disregard of (non-white, straight, or so-called "Christian") human life, while preaching freedom and equality for all.

So spare me the comparisons. The US has it's hands as dirty if not more than any other.

Call me when the death toll hits 10 million...

 

[amartinez1660]

This is a good thing.

When companies become so monopolized that they stifle innovation, expression, and the free exchange of ideas, that's the point where it is acceptable to endure the entry of government regulation into the arena.

To be honest, the tipping point occurred for me the past few weeks. Regardless of your leanings on US politics, when Twitter and Facebook felt they had the right to censor the free exchange of information by one of the most largely circulated newspapers in the country, and do so with impunity, they pierced the veil of protection provided by Section 230.

They decided they were the editor, and not simply a re publisher of third party content.

These platforms that were once considered de facto monopolies are now prima facia monopolies with agenda driving filtering of content no different than other mass media like radio and TV, and quite simply should be regulated in the same fashion.

As far as Amazon, Apple, and Google? IMHO they're a different animal from the above listed social media platforms. Amazon, like Apple will eventually get too big for it's britches and fall down. Even Jeff Bezos has said he expects some disruptive technology to come along and bankrupt Amazon some day. Some shark will come along and eat the pieces and leave the chum for the rest. It will continue to exist in some form, but not the form it does now.

Apple will have the same sort of "short pantsing" that MSFT did. They will have to agree to some fines and concessions on their app store and access to software platforms, but like MSFT will continue to be a mega company much as they are today.

Google, I don't know. It's just so huge with so many subsets. I don't know what happens to it. I just have to admit I'm at a loss on that one and move on.

But I DO believe we are beyond AT&T territory here. Beyond ALCOA. Beyond DuPont/GM.

Given the legal precedent, it's only a matter of time before the government takes action as they have in the past. And often, the results were positive. Particularly in the breakup of AT&T....

Wow, great comment, big thumbs up overall.

Potential drawback, what if for example, I’m the owner of an Nth start up tryout and finally a huge offer is placed by one of these big companies, I would be set for life, the researched ideas would get in hands more capable both financially and technically... except that the government might just block that? That would make many entrepreneurs sad.

This editor/publisher/journalism status is definitely a gray area on many fronts. A bit of a stretch but on the latest Joe Rogan-Edward Snowden podcast, Snowden explains how Julian Assange is charged under espionage crimes and not like a journalist or publisher that received the leaks and moved them forward (whatever the personal moral stance maybe be regarding this guy). For the curious, “charged under espionage” is a certain lost game, many of the rights, defense rules and others do not apply to that individual... many life sentences have been applied like that and it’s scary how the prosecuted persons have no means to defend themselves at all.

Nevertheless, very curious for however these conglomerates may end up shapes years down the line.

 

[deevey]

The consumer - I am a consumer.

Except when you use Facebook, Google or Twitter, then you are simply a product.

 

[lowendlinux]

Before I start clutching pearls or jumping down my favorite slippery slope I want to see what the regulations look like.

 

[mailman199]

The process of regulating these companies needs to start. Will be a mixed bag I'm sure, but it cannot be the Wild West forever.

 

[I7guy]

The process of regulating these companies needs to start. Will be a mixed bag I'm sure, but it cannot be the Wild West forever.

Sure. Let's kill innovation and regulate the heck out of Big Tech. Let's split Amazon into shipping services and AWS and make them two separate companies. Likewise for all the big tech. Foreign competitors will rush in an fill the void.

Cell service in the US lags the rest world and is expensive. Hasn't the AT&T breakup showed us anything?

 

[ericwn]

"the United States, Australia, and numerous countries"

numerous countries = Europe ?

Which then would be numerous indeed.