Japanese Entrepreneur Sues Apple Over Key Flicks and 3D Touch on iPhones and iPads

[ersatzplanet]

I'm all for the concept of patents to protect inventors and inventions. BUT... IMO... this isn't an invention. It's an idea / concept. I would love to see real patent reform such that (1) ideas and processes are not generally patentable, (2) patents have specific implementation requirements, (3) multiple approaches to the same problem don't infringe.

I could be wrong about these, but regardless... something has to change.

I would love it to be that the CODE that implements the idea become the thing that is copyrighted/patented, but I guess that would just mean that a subtle change in the code would allow somebody else to implement it. I manufacture electronics and this has been the problem in circuit design for years. You can copyright a schematic drawing of a circuit and the layout of a PCB itself, but you can't the circuit itself. Change a couple of resistor values and it is a different circuit.

 

[neutralguy]

Reminds me of the (in)famous Jobs quote..."good artists copy, great artists steal".

And in my corporate experience, the bigger they are, the more devious, immoral and arrogant they are about stealing and these kind of things.

I don't think you take on Apple lightly and so if there's merits in his claim, I hope he gets what he deserves.

Or the famous response by Bill Gates to Jobs As Walter Isaacson reported in his Steve Jobs biography: "Well, Steve, I think there's more than one way of looking at it. I think it's more like we both had this rich neighbor named Xerox and I broke into his house to steal the TV set and found out that you had already stolen it."

 

[chucker23n1]

Someone patented the modifier key?
[doublepost=1529517415][/doublepost]

People of various ethnic backgrounds can and do live in other locations. It's a novel concept but one that's been around for thousands of years.

And yet we don't call Steve Jobs Syrian-German, or Donald Trump German.

 

[konqerror]

It seems like a lot of people get hung up on whether the patent is being 'used' or not. There's a car in my garage that I haven't driven in a year; there's no question about whether I own and control it or not.

No comparison. A patent is a monopoly granted by Congress over an idea. It is not merely property. It is like if your neighborhood was allotted one car, and you claimed the car because you woke up early and stood in line first, then parked it and never drove it. Meanwhile your neighbors who want to drive to work, can't.

 

[chucker23n1]

Also, it's hilarious that anyone would feel sorry for poor little Apple on a topic like this. Remember when they started selling something called the 'iPhone' despite Cisco clearly owning the trademark for that name?

That makes the biggest song writers, novelists, screen writers trolls.

A fairly unknown Dolly Parton song became one of the biggest song of all times, thanks to Whitney Houston. Dolly made an estimated 20 million dollars for royalties for a song she hasn't touched since the 70s (which barely made a dent back then). what a troll

James Cameron had zero involvements with any of the terminator movies since 1992, but got millions of dollars in royalties for characters he last used in 1991. for all purposes he's a troll too.

And don't get me started with George Lucas, and dozens others who license rights for movies, characters and songs they created. They all haven't been 'using' their creations, yet somehow got royalties for them. How dare they! Trolls

Except that trademarks, copyright, and patents are three different things.

 

[ani4ani]

And Star Trek! They portrayed a lot of cool "technology" that has or may become real some day.

But they didn’t patent the ideas so your point is moot

 

[CarlJ]

US patent law doesn't require them to use it. but in this case his base description is super broad. I mean it essentially is the definition of any touch screen device. of which there are massive amounts of prior art.

I see two problems with patents these days, especially as they relate to software: one, the length of time they cover was fine for a century ago, but in this field, innovation happens so much faster. The 20 year span on technological ideas can lock an entire avenue of design away for a dozen lifetimes of relevant products, if the patent holder decides to keep it exclusive. And, two, the patent office keeps handing out patents on overly broad ideas (like buttons on a touch screen), and on ideas that totally break the non-obvious clause - in many cases, if you presented a bunch of developers with the same circumstances and goal, half of them would quickly come up with the same solution, but now you can't use that obvious solution because somebody already patented it. But if so many would have devised the same solution, it isn't non-obvious. Instead of patents being used to foster innovation, in many cases they've been weaponized in order to prevent innovation, keeping developers from taking an obvious solution and improving upon it.

The groundwork for patents, as presented in the constitution, was designed to improve and strengthen our society by fostering innovation - by giving people exclusive control of their novel and non-obvious ideas (exciting new inventions) in exchange for handing those ideas over for the benefit of society after a suitable period of time. I have no problem with the concept and goal of patents. I do have problems with the current implementation of patents, at least in some fields.

 

[Elyzien]

Trolls always reminds me of Harry Potter...... "There is a Trooooll.... a ... tr.. tro.... TROLLLL in the dungeon!"

 

[CarlJ]

I bet current patent laws would likely allow the estate of Gene Roddenberry to sue over patent infringement rights to voice control of computers ...

And Star Trek! They portrayed a lot of cool "technology" that has or may become real some day.

Uh, you know that Gene Roddenberry is the creator of Star Trek, right?

Please turn in your nerd badge at the front desk on the way out.

 

[69650]

Good luck to him. I’m all for the little guy against the big bad corporation.

 

[Bacillus]

I’m tired of these patent trolls that don’t even use their patents.

Agree.
But beware that - contrary of what most people think - Apple is the biggest of them in terms of number of unused patents. They pile them up mainly to close out the competition - even buying patents from others without developing them (until the moment they decide the market is ready, which is delayed as much as possible)
All this to ptotect current business and their prominence in it.

 

[CarlJ]

Or the famous response by Bill Gates to Jobs As Walter Isaacson reported in his Steve Jobs biography: "Well, Steve, I think there's more than one way of looking at it. I think it's more like we both had this rich neighbor named Xerox and I broke into his house to steal the TV set and found out that you had already stolen it."

Except, Steve Jobs worked out an above-board deal with Xerox to come look at all their toys. Puts Gates' quote in quite a different light.

 

[Gorms]

So basically, he's suing them for using a variation of submenus.

Came here to say exactly this. I’m pretty sure gaming alone can provide many, many, examples of radial menus executed by direct input and of those examples some will include a drag interaction component even. That’s before we even get to radial menus on the web.

 

[Elijen]

I’m tired of these patent trolls that don’t even use their patents.

Why would they need to use it? Researching IP for licensing purposes is a valid business plan.

That said I think nobody should be able to patent a UI feature like "swipe to unlock". It's ridiculous.

 

[fairuz]

People of various ethnic backgrounds can and do live in other locations. It's a novel concept but one that's been around for thousands of years.

It's kinda odd. The bio on his site says he moved to the US after high school. You'd usually refer to such a person as American or Japanese-American here. Also he founded his company in the US.

 

[FreeState]

It's kinda odd. The bio on his site says he moved to the US after high school. You'd usually refer to such a person as "Japanese-American" here. Also he founded his company in the US.

Maybe he's a Japanese national living in the United States. You can legally live in the US and not be a citizen after all.

Edit to add he appears to be a Japanese national, see: https://opas.com/blog/the-story-of-opas-part-1/

 

[fairuz]

Maybe he's a Japanese national living in the United States. You can legally live in the US and not be a citizen after all.

Edit to add he appears to be a Japanese national, see: https://opas.com/blog/the-story-of-opas-part-1/

You're right, I missed the part about his residence. Says he resides in other countries too. So yes, not a US citizen.

 

[kdarling]

I’m tired of these patent trolls that don’t even use their patents.

Licensing your patent to someone else to include in their product IS using it. And licensing to anyone who wants to use it, is a benefit to all.

The idea that you must have your own product is utter nonsense. Especially when your invention is just one piece of many in a product.

If you invent a new aircraft wingtip, do you have to build airplanes yourself to use it? Of course not. If you invent something useful in a smartphone, as thousands have, must you build and sell smartphones yourself? Nope.

 

[techwhiz]

Apple Newton (1993), anyone? Multiple buttons, touch (via pen), pop-up menu.

(around 1:40 min into the video)

Yep I owned one. (Actually two). I still have one in my closet. I have a tech museum at home.

 

[gavroche]

But they didn’t patent the ideas so your point is moot

I didn't make a point! Just agreeing that science fiction film and writing are a great breeding ground for future technology.
[doublepost=1529525755][/doublepost]

Uh, you know that Gene Roddenberry is the creator of Star Trek, right?

Please turn in your nerd badge at the front desk on the way out.

haha... will do
[doublepost=1529525981][/doublepost]

Agree.
But beware that - contrary of what most people think - Apple is the biggest of them in terms of number of unused patents. They pile them up mainly to close out the competition - even buying patents from others without developing them (until the moment they decide the market is ready, which is delayed as much as possible)
All this to ptotect current business and their prominence in it.

Seems like they (and any big company) is sort of forced to. They get sued all the time. If they don't take out a patent on everything they work on, they risk getting sued for stuff even if they were working on it first.

 

[fairuz]

Reminds me of the (in)famous Jobs quote..."good artists copy, great artists steal".

And in my corporate experience, the bigger they are, the more devious, immoral and arrogant they are about stealing and these kind of things.

I don't think you take on Apple lightly and so if there's merits in his claim, I hope he gets what he deserves.

I seriously doubt anyone at Apple even looked at this guy's patent. I'm not saying the patent is bogus, cause I haven't read it, but I have no idea how one would find it randomly.

 

[blucable]

Gotta get that cash somehow.

 

[LDN]

Courts will hear none of this. Zero inventions or methods just 'ideas' with nothing so much as a process behind them. He just has the 'idea' of 3D touch but never actually developed anything at all. I've got an idea for a super-weapon that vaporizes nations using big laser beams I hope the DoD doesn't steal my invention.

Patent infringement should be for specifics. When we got to the touch screen, we naturally all thought about more than single-tap inputs, like 3D/long press and flicks. Nobody 'invented' this idea. It is what anyone in the year 2004 would have said if you showed them a touch screen without it, they'd say "Oh nice, I wish I could like push it harder to do something different from a tap."

How could anyone even be granted a patent for this thing?

 

[chucker23n1]

Licensing your patent to someone else to include in their product IS using it. And licensing to anyone who wants to use it, is a benefit to all.

The idea that you must have your own product is utter nonsense.

It's not nonsense. It's the basis for the patent troll argument. If all your company does is make money off questionable lawsuits, that's more hurtful than helpful to society.

If you invent a new aircraft wingtip, do you have to build airplanes yourself to use it? Of course not. If you invent something useful in a smartphone, as thousands have, must you build and sell smartphones yourself? Nope.

If you invent a new aircraft wingtip, then never manufacture it, nor anything related to it, nor anything whatsoever, then proceed to sue one company after another, you deserve mockery.

 

[Bacillus]

Seems like they (and any big company) is sort of forced to. They get sued all the time. If they don't take out a patent on everything they work on, they risk getting sued for stuff even if they were working on it first.

Not if they fail to develop the product.
You're exactly following their brainwashing PR fluff.