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Jay-Z and Apple to Launch Record Label at Macworld?

thegman1234 said:
What bothers me, is people can take bad rock, bad pop, bad jazz, bad anything and put it to the side. But most people will not do that with rap. Granted I don't listen to rap that much anymore, my tastes have changed, but there is GOOD rap, and BAD rap just like in every other genre. It's a common misconception that all rap is about degrading women and killing people, it's not.
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There is that, and there is a clear delineation of Rap and Hip Hop. Most cultural absent people don't understand that at all. I am not a big rap fan, I am African American, and I am a HUGE rock and metal fan, and I understand this.

And you are very correct in saying that there are bad forms of all music. Personally I think Modest Mouse is AWFUL, and I have heard a lot of their music. I just don't like how the lead singer sounds, as is the case with a lot of alternative music of that type. But if Apple had them playing at a conference or made a deal with them it would be no difference for me.

It escapes me how someone could say that they wouldn't want to make Jay-Z head of anything related to Apple because he is a rapper/hip hop artist/African American, and that he wouldn't do a good job because he is not European and doesn't know European music. That is the ignorance that went into hiding after the 1950's and is peeking its head back out. If those that have a distaste for hip hop, rap, jazz, and other forms of music don't like it FINE, but don't discredit someone and their ability to run a company because they have built their fortune off of it.
 
Digital Skunk said:
There is that, and there is a clear delineation of Rap and Hip Hop. Most cultural absent people don't understand that at all. I am not a big rap fan, I am African American, and I am a HUGE rock and metal fan, and I understand this.

And you are very correct in saying that there are bad forms of all music. Personally I think Modest Mouse is AWFUL, and I have heard a lot of their music. I just don't like how the lead singer sounds, as is the case with a lot of alternative music of that type. But if Apple had them playing at a conference or made a deal with them it would be no difference for me.

It escapes me how someone could say that they wouldn't want to make Jay-Z head of anything related to Apple because he is a rapper/hip hop artist/African American, and that he wouldn't do a good job because he is not European and doesn't know European music. That is the ignorance that went into hiding after the 1950's and is peeking its head back out. If those that have a distaste for hip hop, rap, jazz, and other forms of music don't like it FINE, but don't discredit someone and their ability to run a company because they have built their fortune off of it.
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If this was true, and Apple made a record label with Jay-Z running it or being affiliated with it, it would be just as successful, if not more successful than Rocafella Records. Jay-Z is not only a brilliant business man, but a great music connoisseur, and this would not be just a rap label which is I think another common misconception.

To be honest, my first thoughts on the topic were ill as well. But as I thought about it a little more, my ill thoughts changed, because I know that this situation isn't what my, and almost everyones first impression was.

The first impression on this is "Apple is associating with rap this is bad, they're ruining their image." And that's understandable because of the common image that rap tends to take. But after that first impression, it's time to open up and think outside of the box. If you don't, you wind up taking an ignorant stand on a topic like this.

When you start to think about how real rap isn't about guns and killing and slapping women, and you start to think about how brilliant Jay-Z is and how great his music is, you realize that this isn't about Apple and Bad Rap. It's about business and genius.

Unfortunately, not everyone can see this, and this will bring about much bad press for Apple, which is why I am STILL against this idea. Like I said, "Apple Partners with Rapper" is not a good headline. And honestly, I hate to play the race card, but a lot of ignorant people aren't going to like the fact that Apple is partnering with a black rapper.

Apple will most likely ruin their image with this move, which isn't right.
 
the reAL TRUTH

This is a rumor !! I have seen and heard from various other sources that jay z is tied in with www.wyplanet.com a digitial distribution site that says they are launching january 15,2008. They are the first site that will pay artists and users just to promote the site. They say in the music circles that jay z and a unnamed big country star are funding the site. either way the site sounds cool because all the music will be for free download. i i knew the apple and jay z was just a rumor
 
Mindflux said:
The decline of intelligent human beings since 1977 is astounding. Nothing more. Jay-Z has 'as many' platinum albums, sure. How much larger is the population now.. and furthermore how many of them have good taste? How many would consider Jay-Z to be in good taste? Not I.
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1977? The height of Disco, with Saturday Night Fever blowing everything else out of the water? :p The year before Van Halen was released? When "Bohemian Rhapsody" was declared the best single made since 1952? Or are we talking more about Never Mind the Bollocks, Here's the Sex Pistols, which ushered in an era of amateurish and shoddily-recorded (but elitist) music?

Please. Sales have never been about good taste, and many of the most successful artists of past generations are generally considered to be crap by people without their head jammed firmly up their own sphincters. The Billboard number one single of 1963, the Beatles' big debut year, was "Sugar Shack" by Jimmy Gilmer. Big artists in the 1960's included Tommy Roe, the Archies, Gary Puckett, Paul Revere and the Raiders, the Shangri-Las, and Brian "Yellow Polka-dot Bikini" Hyland. The 1950's? Two words: Ricky and Nelson. The 80's, with Cinderella and Poison and Bon Jovi and Motley Crue and Flock of Frickin' Seagulls?

Popular music has never, ever, ever been about good taste. It's popular if it's catchy, concise, and superficial. Good stuff occasionally breaks through: Dark Side of the Moon, for instance. But more often, the most successful albums are, well, Thriller. And Abba über alles. Remember Abba, for they are the reason that no intelligent life in the universe has yet tried to contact us.

As much as I'd like it if the music industry were run by Brian Eno, Richard D. James, a hybridized clone of David Gilmour and Roger Waters, David Bowie, the ghost of Miles Davis, Tom Waits, Nick Cave, and Richie Hawtin, it's not going to happen. None of these folks are businessmen, whatever their talents.
 
Project said:
Jay-Zs musical contribution to the world far exceeds Beyonces. Reasonable Doubt and the Blueprint alone does this.
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Ask the average person who Beyonce is and they will know. Reasonable Doubt and the Blueprint won't register to anyone but hard core fans. And Beyonce has more talent in her little pinky than all the hip hoppers combined.
 
takao said:
and talent as musician is entirely a matter of taste
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Talent is not a matter of taste. It is a simple matter of technical ability.
i.e.
can you sing the notes in tune, or play your instrument with skill and dexterity.
What someones creates with their talent is a matter of taste.
If you are a musician you can see that there is no comparison between a rapper or hip hop artist and true skilled talents;
like The Beatles, or Floyd, Clapton, or Motown or a singer like Aguilera or Beyonce. You may not like their choices but
these guys had/have chops, not Bling.
 
I understand you're a troll, so I won't get all enraged, but I will kindly address your points.

megfilmworks said:
And Beyonce has more talent in her little pinky than all the hip hoppers combined.
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Beyoncé is very talented, but this statement is just not true. I think that you misconstrue talent with the type of music that you like to hear.

megfilmworks said:
Talent is not a matter of taste. It is a simple matter of technical ability.
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Agreed.


If you are a musician you can see that there is no comparison between a rapper or hip hop artist and true skilled talents;
like The Beatles, or Floyd, Clapton, or Motown or a singer like Aguilera or Beyonce. You may not like their choices but
these guys had/have chops, not Bling.
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If you are a musician with a closed mind, then you will see exactly what you want to see. But if you look at hip hop artists such as Jay-Z, Eminem, or even Tupac (not nearly my favorite), they produce great music. Sure, it may not be sung to your favorite guitar riffs, but instead of discarding it as talentless, why don't you evaluate what they are doing? So when Jay-Z creates a song about street life or about becoming successful but still not being fulfilled, take it as a poem or a piece of literature spoken with near-perfect timing and rhythm over a beat. It's quite pleasant, and if you try understand the lyrics, internal rhyming, the wordplay, the double meaning, and the metaphors you won't be so ignorant as to say that "hip hoppers" in general are not as talented as some of your favorite musicians.


EDIT: The more people that badmouth hip-hop as being talentless, the more ignorant they seem in the eyes of the people who actually know what they're talking about. I don't hate rock at all. In fact, Stairway to Heaven, to me, is the best song of all time. The progression, lyrics, technical ability, and his voice, are all flawless to me.

I don't use Nickelback as a justification for disliking the entirety of your favorite genre of music, so you shouldn't be so quick to use Lil' Jon and Soulja Boy as a legitimate argument to discredit another entire genre of music.
 
SthrnCmfrtr said:
...Thriller....
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HEY YOU!! THRILLER WAS GREAT!!

Haha lol. No seriously though I do like Thriller.

The fact of the matter is, the best written and best composed music, isn't always the best to listen to. And if you don't play catchy music on the radio, no one will listen. Popular music isn't about being good from a musical standpoint, it's about being catchy and easy or fun to listen to.

There's a lot of well written music that never gains popularity, which is unfortunate, but it's not all the great to listen to, and honestly, what's a good song without any listeners.

What bothers me is when songs that are not only catchy and touching, but are actually well written pieces of music never get recognition.

Take modern rock band Saosin for example. They have all the right pieces to be a great band, and then some. Not only is their singer great, but the lyrics are beautiful. Their drummer is nothing short of amazing, and the bassist and guitarists are great at well. And to top it off, the music sounds great. But, because they're a heavier rock band, they get no recognition.

Another great example from the rock genre is The Red Jumpsuit Apparatus. Not the best band, but hey they're a pretty good band. But you wouldn't know it because their most popular song is nowhere near their best. But it's their easiest to play on the radio because it's more pop and less rock.

The quality of music on the radio is deteriorating rapidly. I wish they would put the Goo Goo Dolls and Third Eye Blind back on the radio, I wanna hear Semi Charmed Life on Z100 again.

And I absolutely HATE it when people my age refuse to listen to the music from their parents eras. I'm almost 20, (hoping for a good birthday present from Macworld lol) and I love music from the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, and of course the 90's that I grew up with. That's more than double my own age in years of music.

Don't get me wrong I like a lot of modern music as well, but;
I still think that Bohemian Rhapsody is the best song ever written.
Don't Stop Me Now is the best driving song.
The only good version of Mack The Knife is Bobby Darin's.
Axl Rose has the most distinct (DISTINCT) voice of all time.
Slash might be a god.
Pete Townshend is the ultimate guitar smasher.
Richie Valens had more talent as a high schooler than any high school band.
Guess Who still has the most confusing name ever.
And The Tokens had voices that could put a lion to sleep.

Check my iPod, the only music you won't find on there is Death Metal, Jazz, and Disco.
 
Badandy said:
...So when Jay-Z creates a song about street life or about becoming successful but still not being fulfilled, take it as a poem or a piece of literature spoken with near-perfect timing and rhythm over a beat. It's quite pleasant, and if you try understand the lyrics, internal rhyming, the wordplay, the double meaning, and the metaphors you won't be so ignorant as to say that "hip hoppers" in general are not as talented as some of your favorite musicians.
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I remember the first time I broke down Encore and analyzed it. "On the low but the yacht got a triple deck. But when you young what the **** you expect?" That's genius, it has so many meanings, especially because one of Jay-Z's nicknames is Young.

I always thought instead of saying, "After me there should be no more..." he should have said "After me there WILL be no more...". He's really one of a kind.

Sorry for the double post.
 
Digital Skunk said:
What if Apple partnered with Eminem? Or the Beastie Boys?

Any comments?
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i would say the exact same thing that it is too narrow minded (and i own 2 Beastie Boys albums from back in the day when i was a teenager)

Digital Skunk said:
Do the Europeans know about those two artists? I bet Apple would get all the praise. :rolleyes:
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yeah those two have been more on the popular side ... but in general the market has changed a lot in the last years ... it has become more and more popular and successful to rap in your own language(like german) than listening to imported hip hop... in germany especially since Berlin actually got a more aggressive scene which made a lot of imported aggressive hip hop (which has been a weak point for years) not that needed anymore

it would make much more sense to come out with multiple different artists/entrepreneur each heading their own group in a label.. otherwise you would be betting all on one number

but no i forgot ... i'm stupid and a racist too (i found the multiple playing of the race card rather shameful for MR)
 
takao said:
(i found the multiple playing of the race card rather shameful for MR)
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Sorry you feel that way, but I found the multiple Jay Z bashings when he is one of the biggest and most powerful names in the music industry of all time to be shameful, and still contend that it would not have happened if he was white, and I'm not black.
 
Honestly... I am not screaming racism or anything that harsh. In the circle of the knowledgeable it IS racism but it's one that many won't understand. To make it easy for those that are covered by the veil, I will let you know that it's just ignorance. The fact that Eminem and Elvis Presley made their livings on African American music and people love them, but consider their original Black counterparts inferior only because it's a slightly different and RAW version of the genre is what is really going on.

There are rappers in other countries, there is a Jewish rapper, and there are plenty of German rappers and I guarantee that they won't get as much flak as Jay-Z, NOT only because they are of a different race, but because they are rapping to their own culture and their culture understands them. When those same people look towards the culture that created the music to begin with, and hear what the RAW form of it sounds like they turn a deaf ear, and end up making themselves very ignorant to where that form of music comes from, and under what pretenses it was made.

Years pass and all of a sudden their children pick it up as a form of rebellion of their parents and their culture, and as a fad and it picks up momentum once again. Their parents put a negative label on it and WAMO! you have this thread on this site bad mouthing a talented African American who brought himself out of a life of crime and into a very successful life. Not praising the guy, but he earned his place.

Jay-Z is a Hip-Hop artist, NOT A RAPPER! Wu-Tang Clan is a Rap band, just like Snoop Dog is a rapper. Tupac was a Rapper, and Common is a Hip-Hop artist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_and_roll

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_metal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hip_hop

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kora_(instrument)

http://www.leeds.ac.uk/collections/string.htm

If you can tolerate the amount of African American music watch Dreamsgirls which mimics the real life of Diana Ross and the Supremes.
 
I think people keep mistaking taste for musical ability.
I love some rap, most sucks.IMHO (misogynistic, materialistic)
But that is an opinion based on taste.
Don't confuse rap with music.
Hip Hop does have some musicality in it.
In musical ability there is no controversy. You can either play an instrument to a certain level or sing in tune or you can't.

JayZ may be a great poet and a great artist but a musical talent he is not.
Miles Davis must be rolling over in his grave at that thought.
 
megfilmworks said:
I think people keep mistaking taste for musical ability.
I love some rap, most sucks.IMHO (misogynistic, materialistic)
But that is an opinion based on taste.
Don't confuse rap with music.
Hip Hop does have some musicality in it.
In musical ability there is no controversy. You can either play an instrument to a certain level or sing in tune or you can't.

JayZ may be a great poet and a great artist but a musical talent he is not.
Miles Davis must be rolling over in his grave at that thought.
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Wow, I can't believe you are trying to define what music is for the rest of us. Get a clue man.
 
megfilmworks said:
I think people keep mistaking taste for musical ability.
I love some rap, most sucks.IMHO (misogynistic, materialistic)
But that is an opinion based on taste.
Don't confuse rap with music.
Hip Hop does have some musicality in it.
In musical ability there is no controversy. You can either play an instrument to a certain level or sing in tune or you can't.

JayZ may be a great poet and a great artist but a musical talent he is not.
Miles Davis must be rolling over in his grave at that thought.
Click to expand...

I can tell by this statement that you don't listen to too much music. I don't listen to a lot of rap and hip hop NOW, because I have listened to a LOT of it in the early 80's and 90's up til the addition of gangster rap which is where a majority of the angst from other cultures comes from. In reality, there isn't much misogynistic and materialistic undertones in hip hop and rap. A lot of it describes the struggle of African American's in a society that doesn't understand them and wishes to have nothing to do with them.

Crap... if I keep on talking people on this forum may hear a lot of things they won't understand.
 
megfilmworks said:
Ask the average person who Beyonce is and they will know. Reasonable Doubt and the Blueprint won't register to anyone but hard core fans. And Beyonce has more talent in her little pinky than all the hip hoppers combined.
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Rubbish.

Take Lauryn Hill. She can sing, write, produce, and play numerous musical instruments. She has had a major part in two classic albums.

Take the recently deceased J Dilla. Pretty much a founder of the neo soul sound in the mid 90s. Played numerous instruments. Major part of numerous classic albums (Labcabincalifornia, Donuts, Like Water for Chocolate, Fantastic vol 2.)

I could go on - Kanye, Common, Q-Tip, Dre, Quik, Timbaland, Just Blaze, Mos Def, ?uestlove. etc etc etc.

Beyonce is.... a good singer.

And my original point about musical contribution has nothing to do with how recognisable Beyonce/Jay-Z are. No Destinys Child album will be held to as much esteem as Blueprint and Reasonable Doubt.

Jay-Z is a Hip-Hop artist, NOT A RAPPER! Wu-Tang Clan is a Rap band, just like Snoop Dog is a rapper. Tupac was a Rapper, and Common is a Hip-Hop artist.
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Come on. I know you are using this to demean "rappers", and that's BS.

HipHop is a lifestyle. A way of life. Rap is a part of it. Jay-Z, Wu, Common, 2Pac were all rappers. They are all Hiphop.
 
Digital Skunk said:
I can tell by this statement that you don't listen to too much music. I don't listen to a lot of rap and hip hop NOW, because I have listened to a LOT of it in the early 80's and 90's up til the addition of gangster rap which is where a majority of the angst from other cultures comes from. In reality, there isn't much misogynistic and materialistic undertones in hip hop and rap. A lot of it describes the struggle of African American's in a society that doesn't understand them and wishes to have nothing to do with them.

Crap... if I keep on talking people on this forum may hear a lot of things they won't understand.
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To tell someone who has worked in the music business their whole life and knows many of the artists we are discussing that they don't listen to much music is laughable. But I digress. Rap and Hip hop are viable art forms. Let's see which ones can play an instrument beyond 1st grade level or sing one note on key. I put some rap in the same position as Britney.
Its all about the money and the "uneducated consumer" as Zappa would say.
 
megfilmworks said:
....Let's see which ones can play an instrument beyond 1st grade level or sing one note on key. I put some rap in the same position as Britney.
Its all about the money and the "uneducated consumer" as Zappa would say.
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Some rap belongs in the same position as Britney. Some rock does, some jazz does, some disco does, some r&b does, some blues does, some rock and roll does, some of every genre stinks. You're generalizing rap and only rap, and that's why people are calling you ignorant.

The dictionary widget defines musician in two ways. One of them is they way you're defining it; "a person who plays a musical instrument, esp. professionally: aspiring rock and pop musicians."

The other way it's defined as is, and I also quote, "a person who is talented or skilled in music: your father was a fine musician."

According to the dictionary, good rappers would be musicians. You can't argue with the dictionary.
 
megfilmworks said:
Rap and Hip hop are viable art forms. Let's see which ones can play an instrument beyond 1st grade level or sing one note on key.
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Slice already addressed this well, many hip hop artists play a multitude of instruments. But in response to your quote, let's see how well some of your favorite musicians can rap...


I put some rap in the same position as Britney.
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Did any of us disagree with that? I'll put some of your favorite genre of music in the same position as Britney.
 
megfilmworks said:
To tell someone who has worked in the music business their whole life and knows many of the artists we are discussing that they don't listen to much music is laughable. But I digress. Rap and Hip hop are viable art forms. Let's see which ones can play an instrument beyond 1st grade level or sing one note on key. I put some rap in the same position as Britney.
Its all about the money and the "uneducated consumer" as Zappa would say.
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HA! Yeah... on the Internet we can be whatever we want to be... :rolleyes: If you did work in the music industry you probably wouldn't have such a distaste and crass opinion about an genre that is making billions and effecting suburban American more than the rest of the nation.

Either way... let's hear some of your favorite genres and artists so we can bash them and bring out the fact that many of them can't play that well either. Not to mention that many vocalists can't play instruments either, and a hip hop artists is a vocalist.

p.s. I do want to thank you for keeping things civil.
 
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