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The app flow is even worse. Have you ever used Apple Pay in an app? You enter all your shipping and billing info and select shipping options on the Apple Pay sheet, to get denied and then you have to go back into their proprietary flow and enter the same billing and shipping addresses again. 2/3s of your customers will have to deal with this double entry.

I've used Apple Pay in apps, and the experience has ranged from awesome (no entry needed of anything whatsoever) to awful (lots of double entry and failures, as you describe). How well or how poorly it works likely is completely on the head of the app designer.
 
Too late they closed ours due to poor decisions.
[doublepost=1561686008][/doublepost]Anytime your ready Walmart.
 
Slowly but surely it’s getting to be everywhere we buy things. The only places left are our grocery stores (mainly HEB) and the small mom and pop shops. Even my local gas station now supports cardless transactions at the pump.
 
That's awesome. I am waiting for Publix to do the same thing. They made a mistake on Twitter few weeks back.

I am also eagerly awaiting Publix to join the modern retail world and accept Apple Pay. What exactly was their Twitter mistake?

ALDI and Food Lion accept Apple Pay, and they do it the right way, i.e. no on-screen buttons to press and no signature requirements. When I check out at ALDI and use my Apple Watch, others look at me in amazement and say “That’s so cool!” or “How did you do that?”, even though they are sporting Apple Watches & iPhones themselves.

Our devices are more than just Snapchat, Instagram, YouTube, or iMessage machines. As I always tell my high school students, “Tools, not toys!”.
 
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I am also eagerly awaiting Publix to join the modern retail world and accept Apple Pay. What exactly was their Twitter mistake?

They gave us false hope! I really hope they don't roll out a "Publix Pay".

https://www.macrumors.com/2019/05/30/publix-apple-pay/

ALDI and Food Lion accept Apple Pay, and they do it the right way, i.e. no on-screen buttons to press and no signature requirements. When I check out at ALDI and use my Apple Watch, others look at me in amazement and say “That’s so cool!” or “How did you do that?”, even though they are sporting Apple Watches & iPhones themselves.

Happens to me a lot also!
 
I don't understand this. They had to support contactless payments and so the suspended the places that already accepted it? That still doesn't really explain why they pulled it from their App.
I think, and I said so here in these forums back in its day, that JCPenney removed Apple Pay from their app and website out of ignorance and nothing else, since Apple Pay online and in apps has little, if anything, to do with NFC. And that ignorance is partly Apple's fault because they refuse to acknowledge openly that there are other forms of NFC contactless payment besides Apple Pay, and that confuses those not familiar with how Apple Pay works (which is also why several US retailers such as Walmart or Publix that don't want to accept Apple Pay disable NFC at all their stores: they ignorantly think they are only blocking Apple Pay by doing that, when in reality they are also blocking a ton of other forms of payment that also use NFC all the way down to contactless cards). Now the question is: Now that JCPenney has reinstated contactless payment, and therefore once again accepts Apple Pay, at all their stores. did they also reinstate Apple Pay in their app and website?
 
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We were in Europe for a few weeks back in May and pretty much everywhere supported Apple Pay, with only two exceptions: someplace in Spain and one place said that you were limited to 30 GBP using Apple Pay which was crazy.
Just a clarification: Apple Pay doesn't require specific support. All those businesses in Europe could accept apple pay because they support NFC contactless payment, and they support NFC contactless payment because contactless cards have been in use in Europe for years, nearly a decade, so when Apple Pay came out more recently using the exact same technology as the contactless cards, businesses in Europe were able to accept it immediately without needing to make any change to their checkout systems (that's why some stores still impose the 30 pound or 30 Euro limit: they have older software that cannot distinguish Apple Pay from a contactless card).

I make this clarification because Americans usually don't know that, and I hate how Apple takes advantage of it to make Americans think that NFC=Apple Pay and only Apple Pay. They go so far as to keep NFC disabled at their apple stores located in Apple Pay unsupported countries where every single other merchant already accepts contactless payment, as was the case, until a few days ago, of Apple Stores located in any of the 13 countries that got Apple Pay this week.
[doublepost=1561753318][/doublepost]
It sounds like you are saying it still worked with the exception of Visa. So why would they disable it for all cards without having a replacement ready? From a customer perspective running non-visa cards as contactless but not visa would only serve to make Visa look like bad. JCP would look modern because they have contactless available, and they would still be able to accept visa via other means so it wouldn't cost them visa only customers.
He's saying JCPenney could've left NFC on for the other card networks that did not require to migrate to EMV contactless, but they didn't do it. They turned off NFC altogether and ran all cards through chip or mag stripe until today. What I don't get is why they also removed Apple Pay from their app and website. That was completely unrelated to NFC.
 
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I just used contactless at JCPenney with a Visa card and it apparently ran as MSD. Combined with removing AP from the app, I'm thinking their "justification" was BS and they got enough backlash that they basically had to reenable NFC.

Question now is, what was their real reason?
 
JCPenney removed Apple Pay from their app and website out of ignorance and nothing else

I'm not sure about that. There are a few possibilities:
  1. They're not happy with the added costs. Maybe this is due to people using other credit cards instead of JCP's store card. Or perhaps more people were selecting the "credit" option when using their debit cards with AP (since that's more expensive for the merchant than choosing "debit" and entering a PIN). Or even just more people using cards in general given that their clientele trends older and typically used electronic payments less often in the past.

  2. Data collection. Maybe this is why the likes of Target blocked it in the past, but I don't think JCP has the resources to do this. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

  3. They wanted to get into the mobile wallet game. Again, I'm not sure they have the resources to do this on their own. They may be able to leverage some other company's solution, but would they achieve the same relative success as e.g. Starbucks and Walmart?

  4. They legitimately didn't want to support something they thought few customers used, likely due to cost reasons (besides certifications, there's IT support, etc. to deal with).
On the other hand, most of the above would likely have discouraged them from offering it in the first place.

since Apple Pay online and in apps has little, if anything, to do with NFC

If JCP had added EMV contactless support, AP support not being in the app would still be kinda weird, but I'd have chalked that up to some technical issue on their end. As it is, it looks an awful lot like they didn't intend on ever reenabling contactless or anything else related to AP.

And that ignorance is partly Apple's fault because they refuse to acknowledge openly that there are other forms of NFC contactless payment besides Apple Pay, and that confuses those not familiar with how Apple Pay works (which is also why several US retailers such as Walmart or Publix that don't want to accept Apple Pay disable NFC at all their stores: they ignorantly think they are only blocking Apple Pay by doing that, when in reality they are also blocking a ton of other forms of payment that also use NFC all the way down to contactless cards).

Why would they want to acknowledge something that arguably competes* with their own solution? If anything, contactless cards are easier for users due to a) not needing batteries and b) not needing any authentication.

Also, I doubt the Walmarts and Publixes of the world are blocking contactless just to block AP. Canada, for instance, has had contactless cards for years before AP but Walmart up there still doesn't support anything other than insert and swipe.

* There's no contactless limit in the US, so one can easily tap physical cards for very large purchases without needing a signature or PIN--just like with AP. AP is more secure due to the separate DAN and fingerprint/Face ID requirement, however.

I make this clarification because Americans usually don't know that, and I hate how Apple takes advantage of it to make Americans think that NFC=Apple Pay and only Apple Pay.

Until very recently, mobile wallets were the only way for most Americans to use contactless payment. Even now, there still aren't all that many contactless cards floating around and might not be for at least another year or two. Considering how many people use iOS vs. Android in the US, is it really a surprise that contactless payment is known as "Apple Pay" here?

They go so far as to keep NFC disabled at their apple stores located in Apple Pay unsupported countries where every single other merchant already accepts contactless payment, as was the case, until a few days ago, of Apple Stores located in any of the 13 countries that got Apple Pay this week.

Most items in Apple Stores are likely more expensive than a particular country's contactless limit. No point in enabling it until AP's available if most people have to insert anyway. Though I will give you that it's kinda unfair for visitors from other countries that have AP to not be able to use it.
 
Why would they want to acknowledge something that arguably competes* with their own solution? If anything, contactless cards are easier for users due to a) not needing batteries and b) not needing any authentication.

Uh, no. Chase is running a promotion right now where they'll give you a $10 statement credit if you use tap to pay with a contactless card three times. Once you're used to the ease/speed of paying with an Apple Watch getting something out of your wallet to pay when you don't need to is annoying. I don't see my self ever using it again once I get those three purchases out of the way.
 
I'm not sure about that. There are a few possibilities:
  1. They're not happy with the added costs. Maybe this is due to people using other credit cards instead of JCP's store card. Or perhaps more people were selecting the "credit" option when using their debit cards with AP (since that's more expensive for the merchant than choosing "debit" and entering a PIN). Or even just more people using cards in general given that their clientele trends older and typically used electronic payments less often in the past.

  2. Data collection. Maybe this is why the likes of Target blocked it in the past, but I don't think JCP has the resources to do this. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

  3. They wanted to get into the mobile wallet game. Again, I'm not sure they have the resources to do this on their own. They may be able to leverage some other company's solution, but would they achieve the same relative success as e.g. Starbucks and Walmart?

  4. They legitimately didn't want to support something they thought few customers used, likely due to cost reasons (besides certifications, there's IT support, etc. to deal with).
On the other hand, most of the above would likely have discouraged them from offering it in the first place.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but none of those possibilities apply. JCPenney clearly stated that they were disabling NFC because they couldn’t meet visa’s deadline to have EMV contactless. That being their reason to stop accepting apple pay, it only applied to physical stores. If they also removed apple pay from their website or app at that time, that was no doubt purely out of ignorance. If they didn’t want to accept apple pay they wouldn’t have invested resources to add it to their website and app in the first place nor would they have enabled NFC at their stores, like other holdouts such as walmart or Publix do (and BTW, Target may have held out of apple pay at their stores, but they have ALWAYS accepted it in their app. Even when they were not taking apple pay at their stores they were taking it in their app, which proves that apple pay in store and in app/on the web are unrelated).
 
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Sorry to burst your bubble, but none of those possibilities apply. JCPenney clearly stated that they were disabling NFC because they couldn’t meet visa’s deadline to have EMV contactless. That being their reason to stop accepting apple pay, it only applied to physical stores. If they also removed apple pay from their website or app at that time, that was no doubt purely out of ignorance. If they didn’t want to accept apple pay they wouldn’t have invested resources to add it to their website and app in the first place nor would they have enabled NFC at their stores, like other holdouts such as walmart or Publix do (and BTW, Target may have held out of apple pay at their stores, but they have ALWAYS accepted it in their app. Even when they were not taking apple pay at their stores they were taking it in their app, which proves that apple pay in store and in app/on the web are unrelated).

Yes, their stated reasoning was the EMV contactless mandate. However, there are two reasons why that was not the truth. First, when they finally reenabled it, contactless with a Visa card ran in MSD mode instead of EMV; if that was the real reason, you'd think they'd have EMV contactless working at the time of contactless being reenabled. Second, they also got rid of support in their app. As you mentioned, it shouldn't matter whether it's in the app if EMV contactless was the reason.

That all said, we can reasonably conclude that the EMV contactless mandate was not the reason. However, we don't know enough to conclude as to their real reason for getting rid of AP support both in-store and in-app. I stated a few possibilities that are likely based on what other holdouts have done, but as I don't have visibility into JCP's management, I can't conclusively state that one is more likely than the other to be the case.
 
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Yes, their stated reasoning was the EMV contactless mandate. However, there are two reasons why that was not the truth. First, when they finally reenabled it, contactless with a Visa card ran in MSD mode instead of EMV; if that was the real reason, you'd think they'd have EMV contactless working at the time of contactless being reenabled. Second, they also got rid of support in their app. As you mentioned, it shouldn't matter whether it's in the app if EMV contactless was the reason.

That all said, we can reasonably conclude that the EMV contactless mandate was not the reason. However, we don't know enough to conclude as to their real reason for getting rid of AP support both in-store and in-app. I stated a few possibilities that are likely based on what other holdouts have done, but as I don't have visibility into JCP's management, I can't conclusively state that one is more likely than the other to be the case.
I see. Just one question, how do we know that JCPenney still has contactless with Visa cards running in MSD mode now that they’ve turned NFC back on?
 
I see. Just one question, how do we know that JCPenney still has contactless with Visa cards running in MSD mode now that they’ve turned NFC back on?

My experience there yesterday:
  1. Tapped a physical Visa credit card.
  2. Terminal asked debit/credit immediately afterward (never happens if EMV's used).
  3. No AID or other EMV related info on the receipt (required by EMV specifications).
I bet if someone taps their Citi Costco card there, it won't work (due to it not supporting MSD mode)--but will if AP is used since that supports both.
 
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It's so much better than it used to be here in the US but still not like that. I was amazed at how many places I could use Apple Pay in Europe.

Yea I'm not sure if it's the payment infrastructure in the US or what but in the UK I'd be hard pressed to find anywhere I can't use Apple pay, at least anywhere I use, even the bus company I work for is rolling out tap on, tap off fares for bus journeys this year which accepts Apple Pay (or any other contactless method).
 
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