I’ve seen it and it’s still crap. It’s lipstick on a pig.
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Joanna Stern and John Gruber Discuss Apple M1 Transition and 'Craptastic' 720p FaceTime Cameras
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While it's not a HUGE difference, the 1080 from Stern did look better, which makes me think that 1080p plus the new ISP on the M1 would have looked really good. I get people wanting to give Apple a pass on this, but they've been lagging on the internal camera for years. It's way past time to upgrade them.
720p resolution is not the problem. A bump to 1080p would be appreciated, but it won't solve the majority of the problems people have with the cam. They need to update the actual specs themselves to deal with low light performance, noise etc.
To be honest though, these two are hardly experts about anything.
These new M1 Macs are like the plastic MacBooks and Mac Pro models that were first released with Intel, they were limited and worked fair.
It’ll get a lot better and these fair M1 computers you’re buying today will look like junk in a few years.
It’ll get a lot better and these fair M1 computers you’re buying today will look like junk in a few years.
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They’re literally the same build quality as other Macs. Not sure what planet you’re on.These new M1 Macs are like the plastic MacBooks and Mac Pro models that were first released with Intel, they were limited and worked fair.
It’ll get a lot better and these fair M1 computers your buying today will look like junk in a few years.
Well there had been a shortage of good ones with Covid and all (don't know if that's still the case). But yeah, looking around there are plenty available (at least the cheap ones like in the 20-50Eur range)
The only reason I see you need high-end vid is for clients that care. For example I present to execs of major global firms so have a Logi C-920 (which are being price-gouged at 179-250Eur here in Europe) that gives me a nice wide angle and 1080p (and get all dolled up for those calls).
*However*, in that case I also care about lighting, camera position, etc and any built-in cam, 720p, 1080, 4k isn't going to cut it... I need it mounted, with an LED ring light, etc.
Anyway, if Nilay @ The Verge decided that's the reason the M1 MBs don't deserve a 10 then it's just a confirmation point that he's a bit of a douchy, wannabe-princess.
A real reason to knock this a point or two was they could have delivered this MBA 13 into the package of a MB12 (though maybe a few less hours of battery)... That's the "dream" ultra-portable IMO
that would have also differentiated the low-end MBP a bit more.
I don't get it . Everyone looks like crap in 1080 unless they have a trainer, a makeup person and a set designer.
Ahh. Good to know the lay of the land.There just isn't really any option while having a display lid so thin, camera modules are pretty bulky components (relatively speaking) and it's why we're even seeing the likes of the iPhone and other flagships getting thicker or with camera bumps just to fit improved cameras.
It's the same across most of the industry, especially when it comes to thin and lights and pretty much everyone is still using 720p webcams on all of their machines where space is a consideration, just look how thick the front facing camera on an iPhone is and compare that with a MacBook lid.
The Dell XPS series still runs 720p, Thinkpad X1 series, HP (ENVY, OMEN, Elite and ZBook series), Surface Laptop, Razer Blade, Razer Book, etc. all of these continue to use 720p cameras and are the higher end competitors with the MacBook.
They won't upgrade the camera until they can develop one in a thinner form factor that supports FaceID.
In terms of resolution?
Certainly not the Zenbook 13, the Dell XPS 13. the Microsoft Surface Laptop 13 - i.e. the obvious competitors to the Air and lowest-end MacBook Pro - which all have 720p cameras (...and are also limited to 16GB RAM BTW).
Its not as if there is any point to having any higher resolution in a camera that is almost exclusively used for videoconferencing where the image is going to have the living daylights compressed out of it so you can have a dozen video streams running over a bit of damp string.
Maybe there is a software glitch in these Macs that messes up the picture - or, maybe, the image enhancement makes everybody look as if they have been rotoscoped - but the 720p thing is a ridiculous complaint.
Yup. And significantly faster and with longer batter life.
Looking forward to the delivery of my M1 MBA (16GB, 1TB storage) in a couple weeks! Better all around than my current 2017 13" MBP.
yeah.... I'm confused. 🤔 I didn't see enough of a difference to make an argument. She almost turned in into a presidential debate. "And thats why I look so much better..."
I've designed image sensors for both cell-phone applications and "bezel" applications.
The geometry of the sensors is far different. In terms of X and Y dimensions, the bezel sensor is long and wide, and the "z" dimension is very constrained by the need for thin display lids or thin tablets, especially on the edge.
That means the required associated digital circuitry PROBABLY can't sit behind the image sensor like it can in a "stacked chip" cell-phone application, but it must be to the side of the pixel array. The IO must hook up on the narrow edge of the chip, reducing I/O pins available. This makes getting all the signals you would like, and all the power you NEED (many different supply levels are needed, at least INSIDE the chip) a pain.
Then you need to drive all that data down to the motherboard, but the thin bezel limits heat dispersion. AND, any heat dispersion OR noise imparted by high-speed drive circuits can impact the performance of the analog pixel array. (Human eyes can pick up amazingly small disparities.)
So (speculation here, I'm an engineer not a market specialist) this makes bezel-application imaging chips - and high-quality implementations - more rare than cell-phone imaging chips.
That's uncalled for. Both Stern and Gruber have a lot of background in the tech industry, and a LOT more to say than those TV knuckleheads' - let them answer the questions and follow up if you want more information.
Part of it is lighting (highly underrated). Gruber had a nice daylight coming through his window, while Joanna didn't.
Frankly, proper lighting and bandwidth is probably the main issues with any webcam. I have a telehealth with my doctor over zoom in a few hours. I have a camera stand with a ring light and my iPhone ready to go.
Someone must have her "big" camera configured incorrectly because the quality (minus any compression) looks like crap for a "big camera" kind of setup. Where's the eye tracking, focus, and bokeh? If by big camera, I think she meant a $10 "1080p" web cam price gouged off of Amazon for $500 during the pandemic.
Do you want MacBook's display panel to become thicker? Or camera bump? While I would like a better camera on my MacBook Pro and MacBook Air, neither compromises appeal to me.
Now, if there's a better and pricier camera that can fit into Mac's thin display frame, Apple should use it on MacBook Pros. Until then, better image processing is an acceptable compromise for me. At the same time, Apple should work with camera makers to develop better camera suitable for MacBooks.
Thank you! It's great hearing from an engineer with direct knowledge and experience with laptop sensor/camera technology!