Jobs Biographer Walter Isaacson: Apple 'No Longer the Most Innovative Company'

[MH01]

Maybe you should start a site where only positive opinions of Apple are allowed.

Imagine the horror of such a site.....what would people complain about levels of devotion he he
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Even Spotify is beating Apple.

Think about it, Apple the company that revolutionized the world with iPod, can't make a good music app anymore much less innovate.

They are fixing Apple Music, though I was very surprised the state it shipped in. For a company devoted to clean design, use ability and accessabitly , AM was a *********

 

[rikscha]

Amazon makes one tech product which hasnt even been sold nowhere near as much as Apple Watch but sure they are a real innovator, putting 'Siri' in a loudspeaker. Pretty sure my iPhone has been doing this for years. The loudspeaker is smaller though.

 

[macs4nw]

Just going to point out that one of Musk's projects, the Neuralink, is just the ultimate personal assistant. It's the assistant that's so well integrated, you're not sure where you end and it begins (ultimately, it is you, just like your heart and subconsciousness are part of you.) If you haven't read up on it yet, take the rest of the day off and read this: http://waitbutwhy.com/2017/04/neuralink.html

Very heavy reading, but fascinating stuff..... An enlightening, yet scary future awaits us, even Elon alluded to that. This will require a whole new mindset for the masses, and I can't help but wonder if as a species, we can adapt fast enough to accept that coming reality? Iow, the tech will be here before we as a species can adapt our way of thinking and functioning.

Thanks for that link.

 

[maflynn]

Not sure how a moderator can keep his position on MacRumors with such a fundamentally flawed view of Apple and their products.

MacRumors respects that its volunteers can have their own independent opinions. Just because my opinion on its innovation is counter to yours means I forfeit being a moderator. Besides there are plenty of other things about Apple and its products I enjoy.

Edit:
Besides, I like Apple, just not Tim Cook's vision of Apple. I don't think he's the right mean to lead an innovative company such as Apple. He's great at managing numbers and his managing the iPhone is a good example. Apple had a visionary leader under Jobs but now the lack of vision under Cook is evident.

 

[NT1440]

How is apple innovating a FS when they add features that have been present in every other modern file system? You're dismissal of other FS does not change that fact

Don't get me wrong in looking forward to it and it's long overdue but it's not a shining example of innovation

How is creating a filesystem that will scale from the watch all the way to macs from scratch innovative? Really?

Honestly I just don't get your view of technology. I really don't, what Apple did here is massively impressive.

 

[adnbek]

Apple pencil Tablets have had styli for years and now that apple has one its innovation. The same with the apple watch, yes its nice but but its a smart watch that doesn't run apps that well (though Apple was hoping to see an influx of apps that just hasn't happened).


You mean a thumbprint reader - its not like we've never seen any of those.


You mean NFC

Others have had stepped batteries before apple.


You mean the ARM processors? Yes its fast

What's is innovative about these, please detail it?


Nothing really hugely amazing about that, A new file system was long overdue and it has features that have been in other FS for many many years.

So while Apple has had some nice products, I wouldn't qualify all of them as true innovation

Your logic is flawed. All of Apple's products were in categories that already existed prior to them entering these markets. They weren't first at making PCs but they made them intuitive. They weren't first with MP3 players but made them easier to use. They weren't first with smartphones or tablets... well you get the idea. Same can be said for all those things you are dismissive about above. They were never first with anything, they just made them more intuitive, better and/or easier to use. (and in the case of their custom designed ARM chips, the best performing mobile processors every generation)

So unless you are willing to say Apple has never been innovative, I'd have a look again at what constitutes "innovation" since the Mac, the iPod, the iPhone, the iPad and everything else technically "existed" before in other forms already.

 

[tech4all]

Imagine the horror of such a site.....what would people complain about levels of devotion he he
[doublepost=1494573241][/doublepost]

They are fixing Apple Music, though I was very surprised the state it shipped in. For a company devoted to clean design, use ability and accessabitly , AM was a *********

That actually made me laugh, cause it's probably true!

 

[Ulenspiegel]

MacRumors respects that its volunteers can have their own independent opinions. Just because my opinion on its innovation is counter to yours means I forfeit being a moderator. Besides there are plenty of other things about Apple and its products I enjoy.

Edit:
Besides, I like Apple, just not Tim Cook's vision of Apple. I don't think he's the right mean to lead an innovative company such as Apple. He's great at managing numbers and his managing the iPhone is a good example. Apple had a visionary leader under Jobs but now the lack of vision under Cook is evident.

+1.
Mike, you dare have an opinion of your own? OMG!
I guess as a moderator you have to become blind and deaf as well as buy all the Apple products and praise them 5 times a day. /s

 

[MH01]

+1.
Mike, you dare have an opinion of your own? OMG!
I guess as a moderator you have to become blind and deaf as well as buy all the Apple products and praise them 5 times a day. /s

Well, I'm sure I've seen him around in the forums..... good luck conviencing him it's just a consumer product /s

Happy weekend !!!

 

[bopajuice]

Your logic is flawed. All of Apple's products were in categories that already existed prior to them entering these markets. They weren't first at making PCs but they made them intuitive. They weren't first with MP3 players but made them easier to use. They weren't first with smartphones or tablets... well you get the idea. Same can be said for all those things you are dismissive about above. They were never first with anything, they just made them more intuitive, better and/or easier to use. (and in the case of their custom designed ARM chips, the best performing mobile processors every generation)

So unless you are willing to say Apple has never been innovative, I'd have a look again at what constitutes "innovation" since the Mac, the iPod, the iPhone, the iPad and everything else technically "existed" before in other forms already.

Your response is flawed. There was nothing close to the iPhone when it debuted. Correct me if I am wrong.

There were no square icons, or touch screen, or integrated music players, or integrated web browsers. Not anywhere near what Apple was offering. Please give me examples.

 

[maflynn]

Your logic is flawed. All of Apple's products were in categories that already existed prior to them entering these markets

I think you're reaching on this. Without needing to get into the nitty gritting we can definitely say that In Jobs era, we had some pretty awesome products, in Tim Cooks era we have thinner products.

I'm not a hater on Apple, As I stated before, I think this is more about Tim Cook's vision of Apple vs. Steve Jobs. In the latter we had a visionary who successfully mastered three business sectors. Its an achievement to succeed in one, but Jobs succeeded in pushing the envelope and defining the computer industry (Apple I/Apple II and the Macintosh). The Music business (iPod + iTunes), and the cell phone business (iPhone). In the former we have a manager of products who keeps the existing product line up to date. The problem is Apple's competitors are not complacent or happy to keep their products up to date but are swinging for the fences. Apple needs to keep innovating, giving the customers products it didn't even thing it knew it needed.

Alexa from Amazon is a great example. In my minds eye, I could see Steve Jobs saying they Siri has been put in a brand new device that never existed before and it will make your home life incredible. Instead we had Amazon out of left field do that. Apple was looking at home automation and so this was was already in their wheelhouse and they missed that opportunity.

 

[MacStu09]

Amazon makes one tech product which hasnt even been sold nowhere near as much as Apple Watch but sure they are a real innovator, putting 'Siri' in a loudspeaker. Pretty sure my iPhone has been doing this for years. The loudspeaker is smaller though.

And how long did it take Apple to finally have Siri recognize commands without you having to plug it in/physically activate it? That's part of the point. Amazon did what Apple used to do. They took an existing product/concept, found a market for it, and they made it better.

Clearly you've forgotten about another device Amazon leads Apple in - streaming media devices. Fire TV still leads Apple TV and has so much more to offer.

As for Google with Android, Apple has basically been playing catchup for about 5 years now. Everything Apple is doing has already been done - and already been done better. That's the biggest difference.

The iPhone was incredible in 2007, and even though touch/smartphones existed, they were laggy, lacked intuitive uses for the touch screen, etc. The iPhone + App Store blew away the competition by taking that existing market to a new level.

Now? The iPhone gets larger storage options years later than every other phone, NFC 5+ years after other phones, touch ID long after other phones (still doesn't have the gesture support nicer phones do), camera improvements years behind other phones, decent (1080p) screen resolution 4+ years after other mainstream phones,etc. Heck, even LG had multi-tasking on top of multi-tasking years ago, with dual window + a third object on top of those with transparency settings via Qslide. The best thing the iPhone has going for it is the SoC. If it weren't for that, the iPhone would be a 'mid-range' device. Moving on to their computers...well, I think we all know how royally Apple has dropped the ball on that one for the past several years. Apple has absolutely nothing new and innovative in their current line-up.

Personally? I'd love for that to change, so maybe one day I could have a Mac that competes with my PC workstation. But for now, there isn't a single Mac that exists that even comes close.

 

[huperniketes]

Apple have never been first to market on major product lines.

MP3 players, smartphones, tablets, fingerprint readers, smart watches etc.

Even a casual follower of Apple knows that. And this guy wrote Steve Jobs' biography (and it wasn't very good considering the access he had to the man).

Uh huh. The first GUI OS was Windows, and HP made the first desktop laser printer, right?

 

[Keane16]

Uh huh. The first GUI OS was Windows, and HP made the first desktop laser printer, right?

Exactly. Xerox with Alto/Star (which Apple lifted heavily from) and Laser Printers with the 9700 (or IBM to market with the 3800).

 

[huperniketes]

Exactly. Xerox with Alto/Star (which Apple lifted heavily from) and Laser Printers with the 9700 (or IBM to market with the 3800).

Those Xerox products weren't consumer grade machines. Back in the day, Apple was willing to introduce revolutionary innovations to their market segment. Before they lost their way.

They've now lost it again.

 

[huperniketes]

Water is wet, Ice is cold, Fire is hot.

No, no! It's, "Wind blows. Rain falls. Fire burns…"

No mooltee pass for you!

 

[Keane16]

They've now lost it again.

You're wearing some lovely rose tinted glasses. As I mentioned in the original comment you replied to, a quick list off the top of my head:

- TouchID
- Apple Pay
- Stepped batteries in the MacBook
- The A series of SoCs
- ResearchKit
- Swift
- AFPS
- AirPods (in particular the magic of the W1 chip)

All useful, all innovative, all recent.

And much like Apple's innovations in their early years (Xerox GUI, Canon printer tech) they built on the work of others for parts of this too - LG batteries, AuthenTec for fingerprint scanning etc.

 

[huperniketes]

You're wearing some lovely rose tinted glasses.

Clearly, you don't know how those work!

As I mentioned in the original comment you replied to, a quick list off the top of my head:

- TouchID

Biometrics? Are you joking? Not an Apple innovation. It's been available for years, and TouchID in particular is technology developed by others that Apple purchased.

- Apple Pay

Not an Apple innovation. NFC payment systems were dominant in Asia for years before Apple added NFC to their phones.

- Stepped batteries in the MacBook

The kind that Apple bought from LG and other battery suppliers. Of course that's an Apple innovation!

- The A series of SoCs

Using IP licensed from ARM, AMD, Imagination Technologies, etc. Apple's innovation is what? Integrating them into a SoC? Wow! Nobody's ever made SoCs before!

I'm somewhat unimpressed by this feat by Apple's engineers, given the semiconductor industry's historical accomplishments with Moore's Law, and Apple failing to take advantage of the energy savings to give their mobile devices incredible charge times because they can't innovate.

- ResearchKit

Right. Because Google didn't have Google Health since 2006. Microsoft shortly thereafter. Google Health might not have survived, but they were innovating in this space before Apple came along.

- Swift

Inventing yet another programming language with an ALGOL-like syntax is innovation in your book? Not in mine.

Learning a new programming language while trying to learn updated or new APIs. Innovation! Courage!

Changing the syntax repeatedly so code which was recently written must be re-written in order to maintain compatibility with Apple's toolchain. Innovation! Useful!

Losing months of productivity learning new tools, language, and runtime environment that don't improve programmer productivity one iota. Well, no wonder you're such an Apple fanboi. Innovation!

- AFPS

A file system with no perceived benefit. Wonderful.

- AirPods (in particular the magic of the W1 chip)

All useful, all innovative, all recent.

No, no, and no.

I'd point out that you've got rose-colored glasses, but you don't understand how they work. I guess that explains why you don't understand innovation either.

And much like Apple's innovations in their early years (Xerox GUI, Canon printer tech) they built on the work of others for parts of this too - LG batteries, AuthenTec for fingerprint scanning etc.

There's a substantial difference in how Apple changed the face of computing with its innovations from the ego-stroking bells and whistles you picked here.

 

[Keane16]

Biometrics? Are you joking? Not an Apple innovation. It's been available for years, and TouchID in particular is technology developed by others that Apple purchased.

Ah found the issue. You follow your own made up definition of innovation. Silly me, I follow the dictionary definition. To recap for you, Merriam-Webster:

“a new idea, method, or device”

Key bit emphasised for your convenience.

Nobody (in their right mind) is claiming Apple invented biometrics as you seem to be trying to imply.

While you may have seen fingerprint readers - they sucked in UX and reliability (I had one on my work issued Compaq laptop - you know the type with the metal strip). The new method for Apple was bringing a sensor that uses capacitive touch to detect the user's fingerprint. It was excellent and blew away every other type of fingerprint scanner on a consumer device I’ve ever used.

That goes for a lot of your dismissive examples (e.g. APFS having no benefit - the multiple encryption options alone are a big win). Sadly you think if something has been done in some form - then that’s the book closed on innovation. Sadly your views remind me of a wide slice of the social media using youth of today and their dismissive, negative attitudes.

I’m no “fanboi” (nice spelling of that derogatory term BTW), I use what’s best for my needs that includes big companies like Microsoft (especially in the workplace), Google, Samsung and Apple tech amongst smaller ones like Odroid.

 

[decafjava]

A file system with no perceived benefit. Wonderful.

What in ignorant post - just look at this point without answering the others.


https://arstechnica.com/apple/2016/...-good-and-bad-in-apples-new-apfs-file-system/

If you can read this article and still stand by your opinion, well I don't want trouble with the mods but ...

 

[Tapiture]

"The innovation in the virtual assistant space, for example, is coming from Google and Amazon, not Apple.""
Yea thank you google and amazon for not letting my kids out to find REAL people and playing with kids toys like those products

What? Nobody forced you to buy an AI device for your kids to talk to lol

 

[rikscha]

And how long did it take Apple to finally have Siri recognize commands without you having to plug it in/physically activate it? That's part of the point. Amazon did what Apple used to do. They took an existing product/concept, found a market for it, and they made it better.

Clearly you've forgotten about another device Amazon leads Apple in - streaming media devices. Fire TV still leads Apple TV and has so much more to offer.

Wow thats innovation, removing the power requirement to call Siri. Yes you are right, thats not something Apple could have done from day 1 rewriting two lines of code... Sure, this had nothing to do with having battery life in mind. Apple release not everything from day 1 until they are happy with their solution while your mentioned companies happily throw out everything possible to fix the product later i.e. Samsung Bixby button. Great feature that, well doesn't actually work until the end of the year unless you speak Korean! innovation ! innovation innovation !

Apple had the Apple TV for years before Amazon had any hardware on the market.

Today's Apple TV 4th generation is de facto the best media player out - or why else is Amazon announcing full support of the platform next week. Looks like didn't work out so well deliberately holding off support to push Fire sales.

And how long did it take Apple to finally have Siri recognize commands without you having to plug it in/physically activate it? That's part of the point. Amazon did what Apple used to do. They took an existing product/concept, found a market for it, and they made it better.

Clearly you've forgotten about another device Amazon leads Apple in - streaming media devices. Fire TV still leads Apple TV and has so much more to offer.

As for Google with Android, Apple has basically been playing catchup for about 5 years now. Everything Apple is doing has already been done - and already been done better. That's the biggest difference.

The iPhone was incredible in 2007, and even though touch/smartphones existed, they were laggy, lacked intuitive uses for the touch screen, etc. The iPhone + App Store blew away the competition by taking that existing market to a new level.

Now? The iPhone gets larger storage options years later than every other phone, NFC 5+ years after other phones, touch ID long after other phones (still doesn't have the gesture support nicer phones do), camera improvements years behind other phones, decent (1080p) screen resolution 4+ years after other mainstream phones,etc. Heck, even LG had multi-tasking on top of multi-tasking years ago, with dual window + a third object on top of those with transparency settings via Qslide. The best thing the iPhone has going for it is the SoC. If it weren't for that, the iPhone would be a 'mid-range' device. Moving on to their computers...well, I think we all know how royally Apple has dropped the ball on that one for the past several years. Apple has absolutely nothing new and innovative in their current line-up.

Personally? I'd love for that to change, so maybe one day I could have a Mac that competes with my PC workstation. But for now, there isn't a single Mac that exists that even comes close.

 

[TechGeek76]

"The innovation in the virtual assistant space, for example, is coming from Google and Amazon, not Apple.""
Yea thank you google and amazon for not letting my kids out to find REAL people and playing with kids toys like those products

Google and Amazon prevent them from going out? No? Be the parent, take the **** away. Simple.
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Really? We (USA) have been doing roughly that with the space program since the 60's. Only real difference is instead of landing in the ocean we put it on a platform. Which with today's technology should be expected. Heck, the Space Shuttle is more innovative than that.

Space travel is hard and while SpaceX is making grounds I'm not sure what innovation he's done. Refinement is more like it.



Don't forget crap quality and questionable long term durability. But even that is nothing new - long strings of little batteries working together in unison is nothing new. I don't think I'd call solar charging stations innovative - need huge expenses in resources and space for little return.

Musk, like Jobs is a great showman but I don't know if much he has done is true innovation. Tesla is losing money hand over fist and is struggling to put out something affordable.

No one has been landing a used solid booster rocket since the 60s on a floating platform in the middle of the ocean, that's just a flat out lie.
[doublepost=1496378902][/doublepost]

I'm no rocket scientist but we were gliding a vehicle down to one of 2 runways from space in the 80's so I'd think with modern GPS and technologies a platform in the ocean should not be crazy.

Yes, we HAD the Space Shuttle but I'm sure if we put our heads together we could come up with it's successor.

Gliding and landing a SRB on a floating barge aren't even close to being the same.

 

[huperniketes]

Nobody (in their right mind) is claiming Apple invented biometrics as you seem to be trying to imply.

Oh? But you left out what I said about TouchID in particular, which wasn't an Apple innovation, but was technology they bought. What an inconvenient truth.

But post-WWDC, I'm happier with some things Apple has come out with. And I'm happy to reverse my stance on APFS's benefits to the user (but I'm wishing for more).

I’m no “fanboi” (nice spelling of that derogatory term BTW)…

Not something I came up with. Just something I copied.