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OK I am old (same age as Job), but the analogy works...

Way back when, I asked my mother to buy me the first Beatles album, Meet the Beatles. I remember being home, sick in bed, home from school and she came home with the bag. I was so excited. I ripped it open (ripped meant something very different in 1964) and out I pulled : The Buggs: The Beetle Beat (note spelling)........my friends laughed at me... my mother is now dead.

So it is Christmas 2006. Some kid wants an iPod and his parents gives him a ZUNE. And it's a brown one.:D

Hey just saw one on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4832274825&category=306
 
balamw said:
You killed your mother because your friends laughed at you :eek: :confused: :p

B

NO, She died of natural causes BUT (TRUE STORY) on August 29th, 1966 a friend showed up at my house at 6PM with two tickets to see the Beatles at Candlestick Park in San Francisco. My mother said I could not go becuase I had a drum lesson at 7PM and unless it was cancelled a day in advance, we'd have to pay. So I missed what became the last official concert the Beatles ever played.

I no longer play the drums :confused: AND my mother is dead. :(

see not everyone here is 23...
 
Recent Interview...The keyword is Squirt!!???

Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer says his company will not lose money on the sale of its Zune digital media players this holiday shopping season, but admits it won't make much money either.

Ballmer said his company's upcoming Zune player fits into the hardware model because the value, if its successful, is all in the software. "It's in community [the ability to share music and pictures with other Zune users]," he said. "I want to squirt you a picture of my kids. You want to squirt me back a video of your vacation. That's a software experience."


...now think of this when you share your zune with the girl sitting next to you...:p
 
nemaslov said:
Ballmer said his company's upcoming Zune player fits into the hardware model because the value, if its successful, is all in the software. "It's in community [the ability to share music and pictures with other Zune users]," he said. "I want to squirt you a picture of my kids. You want to squirt me back a video of your vacation. That's a software experience."

"....Oh, she's hot. I wonder if she squirts?" :D


OK, mods can delete that one.
 
no I do not

n00bst3r said:
Personally the Zune is looking fairly attrective right now. Ever since the 5th Gen iPod came out everyone has complained that it needed to be widescreen and have a bigger screen. I don't care for the WiFi sharing really but you have to admit the interface looks pretty nice.
I don't have to admit any such thing..
 
Talk about understanding your market...

Jobs' brilliance shines through in this interview. Keep the hits coming Steve!

He's so good, he makes their "killer" feature, wireless sharing, sound dork-tastic!

All the while making listenign together sexy as hell.

You go girl!
 
Trying Way. Too. Hard.

nemaslov said:
Yes they can BUT that is what he actually said. Unusual word choice?

Yes. Unusual and uncool.
Ballmer's blatant over-use of the word "squirt," is nothing more than MS' marketing "genius" at work... going with the say-a-weird-word-so-much-that-it-will-catch-on-and-work-it's-way-into-our-vernacular, strategy. Feels so contrived. I can almost see the goof balls at MS sitting in some Redmond boardroom, watching a PowerPoint presentation on why "squirt" will help take down the iPod and finally make MS seem cool, pie charts and all.

And that's the thing about cool - you can't fabricate it (or, it most certainly can't feel fabricated). It has to feel natural, not contrived. Basically, either something is cool or it is not. In this case, Zune and MS are not cool.

Sure, there is more to market share than cool, to which MS can well attest.
That said, market share is overrated - if not, uncool.
 
NewSc2 said:
We heard something really similar to that when every other company released video-playing mp3 players before Apple did, and Jobs said he didn't see anybody wanting to have portable video. Well, Apple bit its tongue and released it, calling it "innovation".

You know what, Steve never said Apple would NEVER do a video iPod. What he said was that video just didn't make sense at the time. For one thing, he said that there was practically zero demand from iPod users for video. Then he qualified his statement by saying that the situation might be different in the future, but the media being what it is, his comment was reduced to the overly simplistic (but easy to report), "APPLE WILL NEVER MAKE A VIDEO IPOD."

And for your information, the release of the video iPod was innovative because Apple launched it in conjunction with $1.99 music videos and TV shows on the iTunes Store. Less than a year later, there are like 250 TV shows you can buy on iTunes, from the latest hits like Grey's Anatomy to old classics like Knight Rider.

I always get a little peeved that people are so easily dismissive of the iTunes piece of the iPod pie. iPod wouldn't be where it is today without iTunes and the iTunes Store. If it took Apple 18 months to convince the music companies to sell their music for $0.99 on iTunes, then don't you think Apple made the right decision by waiting to launch the video iPod simultaneously with iTunes video offerings? iPod is nothing without content and Steve clearly believes that iPod should never lack for legal music/video content, ever.

I, for one, know from an Apple iPod engineer that Apple had a working video iPod in the labs more than 2 years ago, but it's quite clear that Steve had the patience and foresight to wait until the time was right for video, instead of launching a product into a vacuum. History is full of products that - while technical marvels - utterly failed because they were before their time. Newton was one. The Tucker automobile was another.

NewSc2 said:
I'm a big iPod fan (i've purchased 3) but wireless capabilities is the way of the future. I don't see ourselves in 10 years still being limited by wired headphones and such. Maybe it'll be easier than the Zune (haven't seen the demo) but the idea of beaming a song for somebody else to download/hear is pretty cool to me.

Glad you are such a big fan of the iPod. :) I own 4 iPods myself. :p

Your prediction about wireless isn't necessarily wrong, but what Steve understands is 1) timing is important and 2) technology in context is even more important. Microsoft never understood this - they're all about feature bullet points and will enthusiastically push out new tech that ends up being poorly implemented and doesn't even end up solving the problems that consumers face in using technology.

Zune is wireless for the sake of wireless. It's wireless crap. Having wireless will not make Zune a better device - in fact, I think most people will soon come to the conclusion that it's crap because there will be no other Zune users within 100 miles to "squirt" each other with.

What people seem to forget is that Apple isn't stupid. It's like all the bruhala that erupted last year when geeks of every stripe claimed iPod would finally be killed because the music cell phone would be the killer product. What's funny is how these people assume Apple suddenly sent all its engineers home and decided, "Well, we've sold 50 million iPods. Time to call it day. No new iPods, ever."

As is now all but certain, Apple has been working on an iPod phone for a while. So much for music phones killing the iPod - maybe this year's iPod, but Apple is not a company to stand still.

Same thing with wireless. What people seem to forget is that Apple already has shown the way in terms of wireless. I'm talking about the broadcasting features already built in to iTunes via Bonjour networking. If you go to any college dorm or library, you'll notice a few to a dozen iTunes music libraries that will show up in your iTunes. People are already streaming their music for free, direct from iTunes, over 802.11. iTunes Sharing has already been doing the "music community" thing for a long time now.

So it seems quite obvious to me that a wireless iPod will be able to pick up these local iTunes streams like a Mac or PC running iTunes can already do.

If Apple wanted to push the technology a bit, then iPods would be able to stream music iPod-to-Mac(s), iPod-to-PC(s), and iPod-to-iPod(s). None of these limited point-to-point crap like Zune. No slow, time-bomb file transfers. Instead, we'll see live streaming from one iPod to many iPods, PCs, or Macs. No music file will actually be transferred, just as in iTunes sharing, which allows Apple to avoid the messiness of wrapping files in DRM like with Zune. A wireless iPod could tune in simultaneously with many different streams at the same time, and it'd be instantaneous because no transfers actually occur.

Sure, you won't be able to take the streams with you, but wireless iPod with iTunes Sharing would be infinitely more usable and fun than some geeky, slow, unworkable Zune model.

So I say just wait. I mean, can you imagine how badly Zune will blow up after Microsoft has launched the product (when they've committed to expensive manufacturing and the R&D is finished) and Apple launches a wireless iPod that actually works like a wireless device is supposed to?

Remember - just think "iPod with iTunes Sharing" and compare that to Zune, and realize with a smile that Microsoft is rushing forward into one of the biggest trainwrecks in music history. Apple's just waiting for them to build up momentum so the spectacle will be spectacular when the tracks get cut out from under them! ;)
 
aaronious said:
Jobs' brilliance shines through in this interview. Keep the hits coming Steve!

He's so good, he makes their "killer" feature, wireless sharing, sound dork-tastic!

All the while making listenign together sexy as hell.

You go girl!
Yeah, after I read it, I was like "that man is a marketing genius!".
 
vitaboy said:
You know what, Steve never said Apple would NEVER do a video iPod. What he said was that video just didn't make sense at the time. For one thing, he said that there was practically zero demand from iPod users for video. Then he qualified his statement by saying that the situation might be different in the future, but the media being what it is, his comment was reduced to the overly simplistic (but easy to report), "APPLE WILL NEVER MAKE A VIDEO IPOD."

He didn't really say that either.

http://www.alwayson-network.com/comments.php?id=11002_0_1_0_C

"You're always fighting things that are opposed to each other. As an example, take the PlayStation 3. It's a great game machine, but it's not such a great music player. There are many reasons for that, but the biggest reason is that it doesn't fit in your pocket, does it? Games need nice big screens. Music players need to fit in your pocket. So you have to pick one and optimize for it, and the second thing you do will certainly be suboptimal. Maybe you can do it, but it will be suboptimal.

So you can do video on these devices if you want to, but the things that are suboptimal about it are the screen size and the battery life—things like that. The fundamental problem here is...Headphones are a miraculous thing. You put on a pair of headphones and you get the same experience as with a great pair of speakers. Well, there's no such thing as headphones for video. There's not something I can carry with me—something I can put on—that will give me the same experience that I get when I'm watching my 50-inch plasma display at home. And until somebody invents that, you're going to have these opposing constraints."

Makes it sound like no video ipod, and yet he released one just a couple months later, even though the big constraints he listed hadn't been eliminated.
 
vitaboy:

I didn't want to write such a long response but you took the words right out of me. THANKS!

I for one think the capability you speak of is on the edge of an announcement and will be the zune spotlight stealer... probably built into this widescreen thing people believe is coming.
 
milo said:
Makes it sound like no video ipod, and yet he released one just a couple months later, even though the big constraints he listed hadn't been eliminated.
The thing is, it still is suboptimal on the current generation. I believe Apple just added it as just another feature while music is the main priority of the player.

And vitaboy, I couldn't agree more, well written, excellent post.
 
Don't share earbuds -- and avoid squirts

Yuck, don't share an earbud. They get a little earwax on 'em, and guess why the earwax is there? To catch bugs, germs, mites, and dust before it gets to your ears. I wouldn't want to share your earbud -- nothing personal -- and you sure ain't welcome to use mine.

You want to share? Bring along some tiny headphones that don't stick into your ear -- remember those? Cheap as chips, so if you sit on 'em, no big loss. Let 'em sit at the bottom of your backpack til you need 'em.

Or let her plug in to your iPod, but then you won't be able to hear at the same time.

About Ballmer's choice of words: he's just trying to sound cool, and not sound like he spends all day in a suit, in an office with Windows machines, muted green cubicle walls, and a stinky fridge in the coffee room. "Squirt" is unintentional poetry -- Mac users share, but Windows users squirt? :D Steve, please, no more squirting on my network.
 
QuarterSwede said:
The thing is, it still is suboptimal on the current generation. I believe Apple just added it as just another feature while music is the main priority of the player.

And vitaboy, I couldn't agree more, well written, excellent post.

First of all, thanks to milo for finding a transcript of that forum where Steve Jobs related his thoughts about a video iPod. My own recollection, it appears, was a bit cloudy. :p

That being said, what QuarterSwede said. Jobs never said, "Never" to the video iPod. He talked instead about limitations, how video on a portable device would never replicate watching video on a 50 inch screen. Video on an iPod would be "suboptimal" but again, he never said it would be something Apple would never do.

Instead, he was really trying to lower people's expectations about video on the iPod. We know now that Apple already had a video iPod in the labs, with the same 4:3 screen ratio and 320x240 resolution. People back then (as today) were talking about widescreen iPods that somehow would be like portable DVD players, with monstrous screens and such. So it seems that Steve knew that a video iPod would still be a while off in terms of a commercial launch, but needed to lower people's expectations. His talk was simply about the pros-and-cons of doing video on an iPod, not a statement that a video ipod was totally out of the possibility.

Notice again his comments about wireless. Steve again couches his comments with talk of pros-and-cons. He is realistic about what wireless will do, but it's also clear he isn't ready to release a wireless iPod just for the sake of wireless. Problems like battery life have to be solved first, i.e. all the pieces have to first fall in place before Apple launches the product.

It just reiterates the point I made before - when a wireless iPod sees the light of day, my guess is that there will be a flood of articles with the phrase "wireless done right."
 
milo said:
He didn't really say that either.

http://www.alwayson-network.com/comments.php?id=11002_0_1_0_C

"You're always fighting things that are opposed to each other. As an example, take the PlayStation 3. It's a great game machine, but it's not such a great music player. There are many reasons for that, but the biggest reason is that it doesn't fit in your pocket, does it? Games need nice big screens. Music players need to fit in your pocket. So you have to pick one and optimize for it, and the second thing you do will certainly be suboptimal. Maybe you can do it, but it will be suboptimal.

So you can do video on these devices if you want to, but the things that are suboptimal about it are the screen size and the battery life—things like that. The fundamental problem here is...Headphones are a miraculous thing. You put on a pair of headphones and you get the same experience as with a great pair of speakers. Well, there's no such thing as headphones for video. There's not something I can carry with me—something I can put on—that will give me the same experience that I get when I'm watching my 50-inch plasma display at home. And until somebody invents that, you're going to have these opposing constraints."

Makes it sound like no video ipod, and yet he released one just a couple months later, even though the big constraints he listed hadn't been eliminated.

Well, battery life jumped dramatically in the 5th gen iPods (and again in 5.5G). And when Steve debuted the video store the iPod was one device to display that video on, not the only one. Contrast paying $9.99 for a video which will play quite well on your iPod as well as on your 23" or 30" Mac screen, to paying a friggin' premium to buy the same movie on UMD (likewise without the extra features) that can only be watched on a little 3" screen in your hand, period.

If the industry hadn't been touting the ability to buy movies just for your portable device, this would be a classic straw man argument: knock down the stupidest possible use for a device in order to tarnish the whole device. But, it wasn't straw-man, because that's exactly what Sony was trying to sell, and what the cell phone makers were trying to sell! Steve's blessed with straw man competitors!

Likewise, you see here Jobs knocking down what you'd think, had you been on a desert island the past three months, to be an obvious straw-man. Obviously trying to pick up chicks by flashing them your music library from across the room is only a half step removed from flashing anonymous strangers on the street. It's just a plain stupid idea, two steps beyond the border into creepytown, and by far not the best use of a wireless connection between two portable devices. And, worse, we know from experience that it'll be clunky as well as creepy because Microsoft's idea of an "easy" connection process typically involves three "simple" 200-word dialogs, a click-through EULA promising you'll only listen to the shared song alone and get the permission of Major League Baseball prior to letting anyone else listen in, and a "minor" virus infection. But, this disaster is what Microsoft has been touting!

IMHO, Steve Jobs is a marketing genius because he's able to see the obvious flaws in other companies' marketing pitches, and likewise able to hide the obvious flaws in his own. All of which is to say that, yes, when Apple adds wireless capabilities to their iPod I have little doubt it will have me drooling. They have a track record of that, which is backed by a rather solid track record of actually delivering on the drool-worthy product. I doubt, however, that Steve will be going around telling lonely geeks that iPod wireless music sharing will get them a date with the hot chick at the club.
 
snakeanthony said:
Yeah, I was with him up until this line:
I think that music faded in importance for a while, and the iPod has helped to bring music back into people's lives in a really meaningful way. Music is so deep within all of us, but it's easy to go for a day or a week or a month or a year without really listening to music. And the iPod has changed that for tens of millions of people, and that makes me really happy, because I think music is good for the soul.​

Umm, yeah, the iPod brought music back into the limelight. Thanks Steve Jobs, in the 90s I was worried music would go away forever, even though it's existed since the dawn of man. :rolleyes:

Actually I understand Jobs' point. I think he was referring to people like me, Gen X-ers (with disposable income) currently in their 30s-40s who accumulated hundreds of CDs throughout college and early careerhood of the 80s and early 90s. Then life got busy with wife, kids, work, mortgage, etc, and throughout the late 90s I rarely ever listened to or purchased music because I could never pick which CD I felt like listening to, and even if I could there just wasn't time to veg around listening to a CD like I used to.

MP3s changed all that as I started ripping my CDs into my computer, and gradually rediscovered all my music in the background while I was doing other things...I just kept thinking "I wish someone would make a portable little thingy I could so I could take these songs wherever I want." I kept watching and bought the first such device I found in 1999, a $499 Creative Nomad Jukebox 6GB (later upgraded to 20GB before the iPod was ever born). I understood the power of 1000 songs in your pocket, and even bought primitive accessories for the Nomad so I could play it on boombox speakers outside, or take it in the car.

Being a lifelong Apple user, I knew I wanted an iPod when it was released but had to wait until it reached 30GB to eclipse my Nomad. I now have 12,000 songs in my iTunes spread over 4 iPods in the family, and the music is always everywhere...in the car, on the computer, in the living room, out by the pool, in the kitchen, while exercising...and I've bought more music in the last 3 years than at any other time in my life. Now I can hear my favorite Tony Orlando song from when I was 5 juxtaposed with a couple Journey tunes from high school, immediately followed by the new Beck CD, all while I make dinner or cut the lawn.

The iPod has helped to bring music back into my life in a really meaningful way.
 
blybug said:
. Now I can hear my favorite Tony Orlando song from when I was 5 juxtaposed with a couple Journey tunes from high school, immediately followed by the new Beck CD, all while I make dinner or cut the lawn.

The iPod has helped to bring music back into my life in a really meaningful way.

Tony Orlando!!????:eek:
 
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