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NO. You need context for his statement. In the early 90's Apple pursued revenues, in the manner of most companies, not making great products. Jobs saw this as their strategic downfall and applied his theory to his return.

He believed great products would bring the revenues and, looking at the fourteen years he ran the company the second time around, he was absolutely correct.

Apple passes up revenue opportunities other business would follow all the time. Think of when it skipped the netbook fad, for example, or not releasing more phone variants or killing off what had been its biggest iPod seller, the iPod mini.

There's no xMac, they don't license Mac OS X or iOS, the XServe was axed because it was a distraction relative to the few customers it got. People whine but these are choices that represent the thinking Ive's talking about. It's about being focused on trying to build great products.

If you think Apple's strategy was as simple as "let's not focus on money, let's focus on making great products" which made them successful, then you are dreaming.
You're simply agreeing with their marketing (which they are amazing at), and what you see at face value.
There's way more to Apple's strategy than that. Nobody except the executives at Apple know their strategy.


Nonsense.

Read about how publicly traded companies work.

I'm still a child, and the only thing I might come remotely close to knowing is that I don't know anything. For every single thing I once thought I knew, there always turned out to be counter-examples that proved I didn't quite know what I thought what I did. Lucky for me, this experience was a humbling one. When I see hubris as expressed in these words, I cringe for the speaker.

I will excuse your comments as you have said that you are still a child. I was cringing at them before.

You should know that I never said that I know everything. I simply said that I know, what I know.
If you study business in school then you will also learn that Apple is not fundamentally different than any other for-profit company. And there is nothing wrong in pointing out a lie.

When you have to make liars of so many of us in order to square your world view with our words, I think it's time to start asking yourself if you world view needs revision. Please do tell us why you think Ive would lie in this regard? What goal or motive might he have to do so? Let me guess, money?

Those who only look through the world in pink tinted glasses will only see a pink world. What's scary is when they forget they have the glasses on. Based on your posts, I'd conjecture you have an infatuation with money. For many of us, and the business' we are a part of, money is the last thing on our minds.

PR, Advertising, Marketing and more. You'll learn all that in school.

Again, i'll excuse your posts as you're a child.
Pointing out a lie in an article, and telling the truth has nothing to do with being infatuated with money.

"For many of us, and the business' we are apart of, money is the last thing on our minds"?
Who do you speak for? Even the child who sells lemonade on the street tries to make the best lemonade so that the person can sell it for a great price, and earn more.
I feel sorry for any business, these like-minded people you speak of, are apart of.

One day you'll grow up, and you'll see how the real world works.

You speak as if you know a lot. Here's a tip, get fine knowledge about a topic if you are going to argue about it.
 
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Well aren't you the clever one? We can see by your icon how far your head is up... never mind. The reality is that Apple products provide much greater value to consumers than say, oh, I don't know, Wintel products. Isn't it funny that those products struggle to eke out pennies of profit? Why is that? Could it be because they are faceless commodities that all do the same thing, and not all that easily or well? Whereas Apple has built an incredible ecosystem that brilliantly manages our digital lives through truly unique offerings that generate the highest consumer satisfaction levels in all the markets in which they serve. Its not just the hardware, its the total experience around service, support and platform.

Cute, you see a logo and you think you know me. I grew up with Apple and Microsoft products all my life, my first smartphone was an iPhone. I know exactly what the benefits of Apple products are, and I know their weaknesses. In my life, the weaknesses outweigh the benefits. I also pointed out what I meant with the comment you chose to reply to, but sadly you didn't read that far before trying to add a 'clever' quip about my avatar choice. Maybe you could have gotten that far your head wasn't so far up your own... never mind.
 
Cute, you see a logo and you think you know me. I grew up with Apple and Microsoft products all my life, my first smartphone was an iPhone. I know exactly what the benefits of Apple products are, and I know their weaknesses. In my life, the weaknesses outweigh the benefits. I also pointed out what I meant with the comment you chose to reply to, but sadly you didn't read that far before trying to add a 'clever' quip about my avatar choice. Maybe you could have gotten that far your head wasn't so far up your own... never mind.

Yes, it's funny how an avatar can set some people off.

Never mind - the filters destroyed a joke I tried to make. Apparently some synonyms for "kitty" are not allowed here on MR.
 
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It was a change in tax policy under the Clinton administration before the Republicans gained the majority that facilitated globalization and thus job exports.

Look at it from his perspective for a moment. Because China and other Asian countries do more commerce they are self-sufficient which lowers our war and aid and clandestine costs. It was not a major consideration or expectation or whatever the Asians would become better capitalists than us because they dispensed with the regulations, restrictions and banking liquidity limits.

Water under the bridge. Now they have the factories and cash and the ready low cost workers, and just enough worker safety and hazmat control to say they know what it is and nothing more.

The Democrat led Congress brought us this. The subsequent administrations and congresses were constantly focused on other issues. When Obama became President he regained a total D dominant House and Senate. He didn't fix it then either.

So it is what it is. Deal.

Apple is a company working in this environment. Considering the massive tax and economic and political drag in this world right now I would say they are doing a pretty good job overall. And Clinton's VP is on the board, so they are in sync.

Technically, Samsung, too, but they really are copycats and proud of it.

Rocketman
 
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Read about how publicly traded companies work.

I thought you were making a legal point, one would think you'd easily show us the laws you were referring to.

I simply said that I know, what I know.

And in this case you are claiming to know things for which you have no reliable source of knowledge. Yaya, I know, your school professor told you so, so it must be true.

If you study business in school then you will also learn that Apple is not fundamentally different than any other for-profit company. And there is nothing wrong in pointing out a lie.

But there is something wrong in claiming something is a lie when you don't have an iota of evidence to back that assertion up, other than "but my school theories told me so".

Who do you speak for?

I'll not give details, but I'm part of an Academic institution, where our primary focus is not financial, but one of public service. Yes, money is needed in order to have the business run, but money is the least important thing. The most important thing is to provide a high quality product, your education.

I feel sorry for any business, these like-minded people you speak of, are apart of.

Shame.

One day you'll grow up, and you'll see how the real world works.

I sure hope not.
 
Well aren't you the clever one? We can see by your icon how far your head is up... never mind. The reality is that Apple products provide much greater value to consumers than say, oh, I don't know, Wintel products. Isn't it funny that those products struggle to eke out pennies of profit? Why is that? Could it be because they are faceless commodities that all do the same thing, and not all that easily or well? Whereas Apple has built an incredible ecosystem that brilliantly manages our digital lives through truly unique offerings that generate the highest consumer satisfaction levels in all the markets in which they serve. Its not just the hardware, its the total experience around service, support and platform.

Reminds me of what John Dvorak recently said about Microsoft.

"It explains why Microsoft cannot really innovate. It's like a blind painter."

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2389437,00.asp
 
Ive is right, he's always been motivated by design. Combined with Cook's supply chain genius, they've generated industry-crushing profit margins + selling millions of units and now they sit on $117 billion cash.
 
How exactly does assembling the iPhone in American make it a greater product when Steve mentioned in the past its nearly impossible to mass produce such a phone in the States due an industry that no longer exists as well as Unions that make it impossible.
Yea, right, "Steve mentioned". Does the "industry exists" in Brazil, which is another Apple's cheap place of assembly? America has much more "industry" then Barzil and China combined.

All these components Apple can get in America: Corning glass, Micron flash memory, Qualcomm 4G/LTE chip, Broadcom Bluetooth/FM/WLAN modules, baseboard by TriQuint, audio by Texas Instr, Kingston and Crusial RAM, CMOS and WiFi chips by Micron. There are also plenty of processor manufacturers in America, including Intel, INVIDIA and even Samsung's new plant in Texas.

No major mobile components manufactured in China nor Brazil, so all tech components have to be imported. These two countries just provide cheap mechanical assemply labor contributing to Apple's fat profits which sit in Asian banks and probably never come back to US.
 
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As someone pointed out, depending on your conceptual scheme you can reduce everything within it to one single thing if you want. Everything is ashes and dust at the end of the day. Well, great for you. My world involves far more distinction than that, and it is precisely because of those many distinctions that I can appreciate the subtle and not so subtle differences between various objects. I find the experience much richer than the reductionistic world-views. There are many companies that value their product, and pursue perfection first and foremost, many that don't. In many ways Apple is exceptional, in other ways, not so much.

Certainly not, nor did I ever insinuate otherwise. What I did say is that Apple is striving to change the world, and the way they are attempting to do so is by bringing utter simplicity and elegance to the tech industry. Technology's potential is almost limitless, and so far as I can see, no other company has made the experience of interacting with that technology nearly so fun and efficient as has Apple. I'm quite grateful for what their products have allowed me to accomplish, and I see few products that I find as innovative and of comparable quality. I'd love to see a real Apple competitor, another company or two that produces the same total package. Sadly, none has emerged yet.
So do you disagree with the premise that companies, in general (excluding NGOs of course), are in business for the money? Because you claim that "there are many companies that value their product, and pursue perfection first and foremost".

If you do, besides Apple, list a few. Is this only a technology company thing? Hardware or software? If you disagree with the original premise then it becomes an economic debate.

Do you have any hard data to back this up? The interesting thing many of you always fail to appreciate is that if the company does not live up to that image, the public trust collapses and it is incredibly hard to restore. You can't lie to the public forever without them noticing. Interestingly enough, Apple has a history of producing products that make it borderline absurd to think they don't care about the supreme quality of their product. So far as I can see, most of the complaints aren't that they don't live up to the standards, but that the standards are too high and that prevents Apple from introducing more diversity into their product lines.

Apple's history makes their words credible. They've always backed up their words in deeds. So again, I ask, why would they need to lie to the public to boost their image, when that image was already established on the basis of truly remarkable products, and when that imagine is already very positive. Unless you think Ive and the rest of the people at Apple are idiots, it seems to me it would be extreme foolishness and arrogance to resort to lying when its not needed.


Do I need hard evidence when I have logic? If Apple can single itself out as the only company that doesn't have profits as its first priority, then people will be more happy buying from them. I will admit that sales skyrocketing is perhaps an overstatement of the benefits. Or are you suggesting Apple's image doesn't consist of quality, good customer service, innovation, and ease of use?

That's right, which is why the next couple of years will be important to watch. A lot of people were disappointed that Apple dropped the ball with their up to date program, and perhaps the next few iPhone iterations will shatter Apple's image of being at the forefront of innovation.

I agree that they make quality products. What I disagree is the inevitable "why". When you ask whoever constitutes the embodiment of Apple as a company (board of directors, all shareholders, however you want to define it), their honest answer is not going to be "because I/we want to change the world", it's going to be because they want to make money. That's the reason Apple formed as a business in the first place. Granted, they may/will/have changed the world in the process of operating, but if changing the world was Apple's primary objective, they would be a NGO, not a for-profit company.

Steve Jobs is known to have contradicted his words with his actions. Apple says whatever is convenient for them at a specific point in time.
 
what an incorrect statement. Every competitive company's goal is to maximize profits. Their goal is to make money.
Jonny is trying to make it look like Apple is different than any other company, when in it's definition it's the same as Samsung, RIM, Google etc, ... their goal is to make money.
Apple makes great products to get money, but money is still the main driving force.

Also, if a two-toned iPhone is their 'best work yet'.. then i'm unpleasantly surprised.

Yes, in the long term you are correct, but there are two ways to go about it. Most people concentrate on a gross profit target and work back from there. As Ive states, Apple has predominantly worked on the basis that if the product is great enough the profits will come regardless, assuming they go about handling the logistics in a competent and logical manner. Needless to say, at the point at which they are designing a great product, they have also already determined if the market is there and the market potential. Sounds simple, but tell all those that fail that.... ;)
 
I worked as a caterer for many years. I was damn good and made a lot of money doing it.

I was damn good because I liked making the party as near perfect as possible. I liked creating garnishes for trays and plates that hadn't been seen before, cooking each item perfectly, and so on and on. I was working for money but that wasn't what I was about when I was doing the work.

It would have been soul crushing to have money as the focus. I did learn techniques for maximizing my tips. Being able to bring in big bucks was a consequence of doing the superior job that was my focus. If my focus had been making money I would not have been able to say "Thank you" and have people reach for money to convince me that they meant their compliment.
 
I worked as a caterer for many years. I was damn good and made a lot of money doing it.

I was damn good because I liked making the party as near perfect as possible. I liked creating garnishes for trays and plates that hadn't been seen before, cooking each item perfectly, and so on and on. I was working for money but that wasn't what I was about when I was doing the work.

It would have been soul crushing to have money as the focus. I did learn techniques for maximizing my tips. Being able to bring in big bucks was a consequence of doing the superior job that was my focus. If my focus had been making money I would not have been able to say "Thank you" and have people reach for money to convince me that they meant their compliment.
Good for you. I am sure, you did not use sweatshop labor to maximize your profits and you did not keep your profits in foreign banks.
 
So do you disagree with the premise that companies, in general (excluding NGOs of course), are in business for the money? Because you claim that "there are many companies that value their product, and pursue perfection first and foremost".

Excluding NGOs and non-profits, would I still disagree with that premise? Yes. But as I've tried to make clear, it is a matter of degrees. Just like individuals, companies can have multiple incentives, motivations, intentions, etc. all at the same time, and sometimes even in conflict with one another. So the issue strikes me as figuring out what are the primary, and what are the auxiliary, motives. Every non-profit and non-ngo is in it for the money, at least in part, but I see no reason to think that all businesses are primarily concerned with making money first and foremost.

If you do, besides Apple, list a few. Is this only a technology company thing? Hardware or software? If you disagree with the original premise then it becomes an economic debate.

I don't think it's isolated to technology. Think of the specialty organic supermarkets that are now showing up. I don't know about your city, but we have a few here that are happy not to keep expanding, and whose sole motivation is to setup a place where you can be guaranteed that all the products in that shop adhere to very strict standards that are clearly listed on the webpage. The primary goal here is to provide the locals with high quality food that they otherwise wouldn't be able to obtain. Yes they need to remain profitable in order to remain in the marketplace, but I see no reason to think the primary motivation for setting up that shop is financial.

Another example? A close friend of mine owns a bike shop. He doesn't make much money, some years he makes a little profit, other years he breaks even, and some years he lost a little money. He loves owning the shop and helping people get into the sport of cycling. He loves being part of a community that resolves around his shop's group rides, etc. He couldn't care less about being rich, all he cares about is one thing. Cycling as much as possible, owning nice new rides, and being part of a vibrant and fun community.

Now another software one. There are plenty of little developers who put together a product not to hit it big, in fact they know their product is a niche product and will not appeal to the masses, in fact they would be happy to have one of the major corporations take up the slap, but in the mean time they need their computers to fulfill a very specific task, so they setup a business to provide that ability to others, including themselves.

I can give you specific names, but they are not really needed. The point is the grand sweeping claims are not what holds true for everyone out there. Apple struck it big, there is no doubt. What is in doubt is whether or not they started from humble aspirations and managed to keeps those goals along the way.

Do I need hard evidence when I have logic? If Apple can single itself out as the only company that doesn't have profits as its first priority, then people will be more happy buying from them. I will admit that sales skyrocketing is perhaps an overstatement of the benefits. Or are you suggesting Apple's image doesn't consist of quality, good customer service, innovation, and ease of use?

Logic would be fine if it worked, but the problem is you are making a claim that Apple would be unique in this regard when there are easily generated counter-examples that make it clear Apple wouldn't be unique in this regard if their claims held true. So, in light of the logic breaking down, I'd hope one would have some data as a safety net.

I agree that they make quality products. What I disagree is the inevitable "why". When you ask whoever constitutes the embodiment of Apple as a company (board of directors, all shareholders, however you want to define it), their honest answer is not going to be "because I/we want to change the world", it's going to be because they want to make money. That's the reason Apple formed as a business in the first place. Granted, they may/will/have changed the world in the process of operating, but if changing the world was Apple's primary objective, they would be a NGO, not a for-profit company.

I think they just gave you their honest answer, and you responded by calling them liars. I'm simply calling you out on it. If you are going to start questioning people's integrity, you better have good reasons. The response, "but my view of the world dictates that every single business without except is primarily focused upon revenue" is not a good response. In this case, the benefit of the doubt should incline you to re-evaluate your dogmas.

Steve Jobs is known to have contradicted his words with his actions. Apple says whatever is convenient for them at a specific point in time.

Jobs changed his mind a lot, no doubt. But I see no reason to doubt his integrity.
 
what an incorrect statement. Every competitive company's goal is to maximize profits. Their goal is to make money.
Jonny is trying to make it look like Apple is different than any other company, when in it's definition it's the same as Samsung, RIM, Google etc, ... their goal is to make money.
Apple makes great products to get money, but money is still the main driving force.

Also, if a two-toned iPhone is their 'best work yet'.. then i'm unpleasantly surprised.

I'm not fully sure that's a fair comment, I know where you're coming from but as Brand Manager for my company I'm involved in every aspect of product, marketing, sales etc. When I design something I am usually aiming for a certain price point but I don't think at all about how much profit it will make us, I focus purely on making the product as good as I can within the limitations. When I put on my "Sales hat" I worry about the other areas but this only comes after the design process.

I think all good designers are focussed on design first and foremost, if the product ends up great then the sales and profits are an after-effect. I expect this is where Ive is coming from and with him not being directly involved in other areas of the company I think making his designs the best he can really is his main intention.

I agree on the two-tone phone but I really don't expect that's a final design if even Apple at all.
 
- the ultrafocus on iOS devices.
- the iBookstore pricing
- all these lawsuit nonsense with Samsung etc
- etc etc etc etc

And you tell me profit isn't their goal?

Oh and nobody says they don't focus on making great products, but to say money is the last thing on their mind is just... Dontknowifinseriousdenialorjustplaindotdotdot.jpg
 
As are many of the designers at Sony, Samsung, etc. Are you saying THEY are any different than Ives? Or is the difference in the other departments?

I am happy to pay for quality, and I do, but to try and say that Apple has not traditionally milked the crap out of its consumers is blind fanboi-ism. Although it's exactly that that allowed Apple to charge $80 for a keyboard because it was see-through plastic! :)
It is fairly clear if you look at their products, the way Sony, Samsung etc work is they look for a hole in the market and design a product to fill it. Apple have a completely differently starting point, can we make a great product. If Apple were like most other companies, there would be Apple microwaves and Apple Fridges by now.
 
i think what a lot of people missed here is that, he said they are not DRIVEN by profit, but design. He didn't say they don't WANT profit.

So when it comes to decisions, say if they can save $50 per unit on the iMac to go with a inferior design, or save 10 weeks of development time and 100mil dollars to make a crappier designed UI, they won't do it; while a lot of other companies will take the shortcut and push things out as cheap/fast as possible to maximize their profit.
 
"We are really pleased with our revenues but our goal isn't to make money. It sounds a little flippant, but it's the truth. Our goal and what makes us excited is to make great products. If we are successful people will like them and if we are operationally competent, we will make money," he said.

Seems this is how Apple will be.
Ive, Forstall and co will keep making the great hardware and software. And Cook (operational genius in my opinion) will make these products profitable. I see Cook having less constant input with every little design change. Yes Cook trusts his design teams like Jobs did, but Cook is not as well anal perfectionist about it like Jobs was.

A slight shift in the make up of the top part of Apple. And I'm all for it. Let the CEO be the CEO, and let the design teams design.

******************

I see it like this:

Others: We want to make money and our products are just a means to this money making end.

Apple: We want to make the best products and hopefully Cook and co can keep us in business long enough to do so.
 
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