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Everyone wants to harp on him about iOS 7 when in fact iOS runs incredibly well, which is of course the engineers part, but from the UI part it does look and function very well.

I've used every iOS on every iPhone and iOS 7 is the first version that crashes and locks up on a regular basis. The UI is a plain, unimaginative, unintuitive, beginner's html page from the 90s. Somebody or a team should be fired on both sides. Everything that made an iPhone special was stripped away. Less may be better for hardware but not for software.
 
Tell that load of "normal people understanding" rubbish to my mother. She is what is considered normal. We, even though we consider ourselves normal, are just a bunch of nerds who think the whole world is into Apple and PCs as much as we are.
Your mother, like all humans, is dying. However, as a human who's brain was formed before the GUI was invented, she is rapidly becoming a rarity. When she dies, there will be no more users like her. Apple has to consider this in order to survive.

What's happened here is the very goal of UI design has changed. It used to be that good UI was about making it so that people who were adults before the GUI could feel at home. Skeuomorphism helped with that a lot. However, UI design in 2013 is no longer about your Mom. To most people under 40 books and sticky notes and tape players are no more real or comforting than progress views and scroll views. Trying to make the latter look like the former just gets in the way.

Now if you can't wrap your head around this seismic shift in design goals, you will perceive every future device as a step away from the goals of yore. However, Apple no longer has the luxury of accommodating you (or is it your Mom?). If they don't move forward now, somebody else will and that somebody else will eat Apple's lunch.

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Oversimplification is worse than complexity.
Judging by Apple's enormous sales and profits, tens of millions of people disagree. Either that, or Apple's products are not oversimplified. You choose. (The reality is that iOS 7 is actually a more complex and feature filled OS than any prior version by far)
 
Your mother, like all humans, is dying. However, as a human who's brain was formed before the GUI was invented, she is rapidly becoming a rarity. When she dies, there will be no more users like her. Apple has to consider this in order to survive.

What's happened here is the very goal of UI design has changed. It used to be that good UI was about making it so that people who were adults before the GUI could feel at home. Skeuomorphism helped with that a lot. However, UI design in 2013 is no longer about your Mom. To most people under 40 books and sticky notes and tape players are no more real or comforting than progress views and scroll views. Trying to make the latter look like the former just gets in the way.

Now if you can't wrap your head around this seismic shift in design goals, you will perceive every future device as a step away from the goals of yore. However, Apple no longer has the luxury of accommodating you (or is it your Mom?). If they don't move forward now, somebody else will and that somebody else will eat Apple's lunch.

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Judging by Apple's enormous sales and profits, tens of millions of people disagree. Either that, or Apple's products are not oversimplified. You choose. (The reality is that iOS 7 is actually a more complex and feature filled OS than any prior version by far)

You must not seen 2013 abominations like pages, keyword, iMovie, garageband. They went into new level of simple....they just straight cut features out. Now THATS simple!

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Did he tell you himself that they aren't working on improving ios7? I bet you they are. It was just released of course it will have some issues. By ios8 it will be much improved. Same thing that happened with maps.
Forstal went fleeing out of apple for screwing up maps.....will Ive do the same for breaking iOS 7?
 
You must not seen 2013 abominations like pages, keyword, iMovie, garageband. They went into new level of simple....they just straight cut features out. Now THATS simple!

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Forstal went fleeing out of apple for screwing up maps.....will Ive do the same for breaking iOS 7?

They didn't "straight cut" anything. They added substantial new features such as iCloud access from PCs and simultaneous editing. In order to do that, they had to create a common code base between platforms. To get that into your hands ASAP they released it before a few low-priority features were ready, leaving you the option of using the older version in the meantime. Your hyperbole shows the weakness in your argument.

Forestall's departure wasn't really about maps itself. It was about the fact that he was holding Apple back. Ive has shown a willingness to do what is necessary and the sales are there to show it. The 5S, running iOS 7, is by far Apple's best-selling device ever.
 
I would give Ive some time. Everyone wants to harp on him about iOS 7 when in fact iOS runs incredibly well, which is of course the engineers part, but from the UI part it does look and function very well. Keep in mind this is his first crack at designing software UI and he is just getting into the swing of things. Go back and look at his first products that he designed for Apple in comparison to what he designs today. The man is by far one of the best industrial designers of the last three decades but he didn't get there overnight.
What time does he need to get into the swing of things? He does not work as an apprentice at Apple, he is well-paid. So he should be good in his job. IOS 7 is ugly and has the user-friendlyness of Windows.
I like his hardware design (though not so much his latest ideas about what airport and MacPro should look like). But he is not good in ui design. He should stick to his core competence and play at home.
 
Judging by Apple's enormous sales and profits, tens of millions of people disagree. Either that, or Apple's products are not oversimplified. You choose. (The reality is that iOS 7 is actually a more complex and feature filled OS than any prior version by far)

Power users disagree with the masses.
 
What time does he need to get into the swing of things? He does not work as an apprentice at Apple, he is well-paid. So he should be good in his job. IOS 7 is ugly and has the user-friendlyness of Windows.
I like his hardware design (though not so much his latest ideas about what airport and MacPro should look like). But he is not good in ui design. He should stick to his core competence and play at home.
Airport is designed the way it is to maximize the antenna range. That's right- Ive puts function before form. Or in the words of Jobs, design IS how it works.

As for user-friendliness, anyone who can use a computer can use ios 7. User friendliness is now about making a phone that phone users can use efficiently. It is no longer about catering to the needs of those who pre-date the GUI.

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Power users disagree with the masses.
Apple has NEVER been about stroking the egos of self-styled designers or self-styled power users. If that's what you're waiting for, it's going to be a long time.

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Cause Jon Ive is not God. He is a gift from God to brighten all of our lives.
Indeed. What bitter, angry, haters cannot understand is that one can pursue perfection in spite of one's failures. You'll never actually be perfect, but you'll come a lot closer than those who strive for merely OK (check out Samsung's smart watch for an example).
 
They didn't "straight cut" anything. They added substantial new features such as iCloud access from PCs and simultaneous editing. In order to do that, they had to create a common code base between platforms. To get that into your hands ASAP they released it before a few low-priority features were ready, leaving you the option of using the older version in the meantime. Your hyperbole shows the weakness in your argument.

Forestall's departure wasn't really about maps itself. It was about the fact that he was holding Apple back. Ive has shown a willingness to do what is necessary and the sales are there to show it. The 5S, running iOS 7, is by far Apple's best-selling device ever.

Did you even try new software?

Forestall was holding Apple back? His software WAS iPhone! He built momentum and Ive is riding that wave at the moment. Never were there so many negative critics about iOS than right now.
 
Apple has NEVER been about stroking the egos of self-styled designers or self-styled power users. If that's what you're waiting for, it's going to be a long time.

I don't even know what you mean by 'self-styled'. In any case many people who think they are power users aren't really.

But the truth is Apple does stupid things like removing arrow buttons from scrollbars and dumb down their productivity applications.

And iOS devices cannot even take a memory card.

Now they push wimpy ultrabooks, so I'm stopping buying Macs.
 
They didn't "straight cut" anything. They added substantial new features such as iCloud access from PCs and simultaneous editing. In order to do that, they had to create a common code base between platforms. To get that into your hands ASAP they released it before a few low-priority features were ready, leaving you the option of using the older version in the meantime. Your hyperbole shows the weakness in your argument.

Forestall's departure wasn't really about maps itself. It was about the fact that he was holding Apple back. Ive has shown a willingness to do what is necessary and the sales are there to show it. The 5S, running iOS 7, is by far Apple's best-selling device ever.

Forstall wasn't holding Apple back. He was Steve Jobs pick as a successor because he came off as a bit of a maverick. The skeuomorphism was annoying, but not the core issue. I actually have a feeling Apple has been taken over by the same entities who run all the other big companies.
 
Forstall wasn't holding Apple back. He was Steve Jobs pick as a successor because he came off as a bit of a maverick. The skeuomorphism was annoying, but not the core issue. I actually have a feeling Apple has been taken over by the same entities who run all the other big companies.
Apple is run by Tim Cook, who was hand picked by Steve, and increasingly by Ive, also hand picked by Steve. If Steve wanted Forestall running loose with the company, he would have set it up that way.

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I don't even know what you mean by 'self-styled'. In any case many people who think they are power users aren't really.

But the truth is Apple does stupid things like removing arrow buttons from scrollbars and dumb down their productivity applications.

And iOS devices cannot even take a memory card.

Now they push wimpy ultrabooks, so I'm stopping buying Macs.
There is no such thing as a 'power user'. Nobody ever calls anyone else that. The people who style themselves as such usually take themselves too serious in other respects as well. Every user is different and has different needs, but there is no category of users whose needs and insights trump those of anyone else.

I applaud your choice not to buy Apple hardware. Apple will never make the kind of machines that you want, if what you want is a 2 inch think 'power' laptop or memory slots on iOS (you know the i is for internet, right? Learn to use iCloud or Dropbox). Now since you will never buy anything Apple, go visit some Android websites instead.

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Did you even try new software?

Forestall was holding Apple back? His software WAS iPhone! He built momentum and Ive is riding that wave at the moment. Never were there so many negative critics about iOS than right now.
Was is past tense. The question Steve often asked when he first took over at Apple is "have you done any work in the last 5 years?". Forestall past contributions will be remembered long after he dies, but he has iOS stuck in a holding pattern that was on the brink of bringing Apple down.
 
I applaud your choice not to buy Apple hardware. Apple will never make the kind of machines that you want, if what you want is a 2 inch think 'power' laptop

I would actually need a 2-inch thick laptop, but they are not really portable, they are TRANSportable, so I will have to make do with a 1-inch thick mobile workstation.
 
So the rose gold earpods sold for $461K and the aluminum desk went for $1.6M :eek: Not sure who the winning bids were from.

EDIT: Lecia camera went for $1.8M and red Mac Pro for $977K.
 
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So the rose gold earpods sold for $461K and the aluminum desk went for $1.6M :eek: Not sure who the winning bids were from.

EDIT: Lecia camera went for $1.8M and red Mac Pro for $977K.
Nice to see Johnny's designs making millions for those who need it. Of, course that won't stop the hatters. For them, no occasion is a bad time to sit in their basements and criticize people who are actually doing something.
 
The year is 2013. Normal people know how to use a computer and they know the rows of things along the top and the bottom of the screen do stuff. The future has no need for the level of demarcation between content and UI that was previously there. Now if YOU need a button to have a box around it, a drop shadow, a clashing color, and a little arrow pointing to it with a label saying "you can click here" that's fine. Maybe you could make a Linux skin for that? The vast majority of present smartphone users, and all future generations, no longer need ties to the physical world. Apple has always designed for where the puck is going and it bodes very well that they have continued. You can choose to turn your back tot he play and stare at the whole where the puck used to be for as long as you want. Times have changed and the principles of UI design have changed with them.

I "flatly" disagree. There will never be a lack of need for physical representation of objects in a virtual world because (most of us) live and interact with objects in the physical world. You just cannot beat a physical button, knob, etc. At best, you can represent it in the virtual space. How you represent it is what matters. Jony Ive failed here.

The reason iOS was intuitive depended on that physical to virtual connection. You didn't need to know something already, you didn't need to experience it beforehand. For example, if represented in the virtual space as it exists in the physical space properly, I can tell a circular button from a circular knob without thinking. I know one is pressed, the other turned. But with iOS 7, Mr. Ive has given us a plain-text circle instead, and leaving it to us to decipher whether I should push or turn.

My point is, why remove the intuitiveness that was already there? How does this improve the usability of a device? Your attitude appears to be a bit smug: "everyone in 2013 should know how to use an electronic device". That sounds just like every Windows PC fan I've ever encountered, at the height of the Apple vs PC "wars". You just cannot assume that everyone knows how to do something. The idea is to make it so that no one needs to know anything ahead of time before they use your device. And iOS 6, design taste quibbles aside, had this. A very young child could (and do) use it.

This is a troublesome paradigm shift at Apple, where aesthetics and design have completely taken over without regard for the user experience. I mean, they went from a "let's design our products as if the user was new to computing" to "people are used to putting their finger on glass" pretty ***** fast. What. The. Hell.

Apple used to "skate to where the puck was going to be" successfully under Steve Jobs. They are still riding that wave, since Steve had (reportedly) a queue of products lined up well after his death. But it was the supposedly "annoying" skeuomorphic Apple software (specifically iOS) that drove's Apple's success into the stratosphere, where it remains now. To assume that the iPhone's recent sales are attributed to iOS 7 may be a bit premature; Apple's hardware may have more of an impact, as it's always been spectacular. Folks that just wanted to try iOS 7 out (hey, it's new) are screwed and cannot go back even if they wanted to, and many (myself included) do. So all the "iOS adoption rate success" crap is just that, BS.

Looks like Jony Ive is nothing without Steve. He has no one to give him "a million no's for every yes". I also think getting rid of Forstall was a mistake; you just don't get rid of the guy that led the design of the software that pretty much changed the industry.
 
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I've used every iOS on every iPhone and iOS 7 is the first version that crashes and locks up on a regular basis. The UI is a plain, unimaginative, unintuitive, beginner's html page from the 90s. Somebody or a team should be fired on both sides. Everything that made an iPhone special was stripped away. Less may be better for hardware but not for software.

I'll second part of that – only version of iOS I've used that apps have straight up frozen on, having to hard reset before being able to use my phone again.
 
Charlie Rose talks out his rear about Ive's impact to Apple's success.

FWIW: Many of us NeXT engineers and former Apple engineers are growing long in the tooth [behind the scenes] about all the fame being showered on Ives. The pretentious tones these two designers emphasize as if they have a `calling' has reached a point of comically painful. The hubris in this interview is palpable.

Simplicity can be summarized by the Object Model abstraction behind Interfaces.

The Interface is clean, while guts are extremely complex to ensure simplicity.

These two speak and ruin it.
 
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"Apple is run by Tim Cook, who was hand picked by Steve, and increasingly by Ive, also hand picked by Steve. If Steve wanted Forestall running loose with the company, he would have set it up that way."

You ignore the question of who runs Tim Cook.
 
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