Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Jony Ive On iWatch: Switzerland is in Trouble

Interesting data, worth reading: http://www.statisticbrain.com/wrist-watch-industry-statistics/.
Last but not least I would be very much interested in having an answer to beanbaguk's question as it would/could show the extent AW got "Switzerland in trouble".
I can't help smiling visiting this thread.
This trouble caused by AW is as big as the existence of iWatch mentioned in the thread title.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: George Dawes and beanbaguk
Ulenspiegel said:
Interesting data, worth reading: http://www.statisticbrain.com/wrist-watch-industry-statistics/.
Last but not least I would be very much interested in having an answer to beanbaguk's question as it would/could show the extent AW got "Switzerland in trouble".
I can't help smiling visiting this thread.
This trouble caused by AW is as big as the existence of iWatch mentioned in the thread title.
Click to expand...

I strongly believe the Apple Watch is a fad at the moment. Many on this forum will know I'm no fan of the Apple Watch and in the 2 weeks I wore one, I realised for 95% of people, it serves no useful purpose other than supposed bragging rights.

My Apple Watch sits in a drawer. I offered it to my brother in law for Christmas and he politely declined telling me he didn't see a reason to have one. Instead, he uses a smart mechanical dress watch day to day and wears a Garmin fitness watch when training.

I'm very curious as to what AW2 will bring but frankly, unless the power lasts longer than a week, it'll never get anywhere.

Until then, the mechanical watch market will wear the crown and they will see very little impact on their industry long term.
 
  • Like
Reactions: George Dawes and Ulenspiegel
Source

I think year/year results for :apple: watch in November will be pretty impressive ;)

I can also admire classical watches - the beauty and craftsmanship, but as I said much earlier in this thread, with each new version of smart watches their features will push classical watches to the side more and more. I think it's a bleak future for them.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
TouchMint.com said:
Didn't know there was a watch market to begin with :)

For real I can see this though I mean now that we have cellphones how many people really have home phones...
Click to expand...

There isn't a watch market. Not anymore, thanks to pagers and cell phones and smartphones being ubiquitous.

A(n attempt at a) new market is being created, by conditioning the audience with these types of marketing campaigns. To drum up artificial interest, artificial demand, artificial scarcity to jack up the prices... makes for a great bread and circus, doesn't it? :)

philipk said:
Traditional watch makers are already hurting. Have you seen the prices of used Rolexes or Omega's?

I own one of each and while I don't regret buying them some 16 and 20 years ago, I wouldn't buy them today. (I am 57).

People under 30 don't wear watches as they use their phones. So if Apple or Samsung gets them wearing watches again it will be a NEW market that wouldn't change the current watch market that was already hurting.
Click to expand...

I'm glad I'm not an environmentalist, because these new watches have to be tethered to the phones to be anything more useful than a basic time telling piece. Battery life is bad enough on phones, a constant tether to a watch will make it worse, never mind that lithium ion isn't recyclable as such or might cost too much to do and our current economy doesn't place value on re-use, just use and ditch. So why am I not an environmentalist? Look to those selling the concepts and how true they are once they're done selling the books and speeches. The concerns may be real but the pundits only got rich by selling us the ideas then coming up with con scheme and schmooze to hide their outlandish hypocrisy.

And it's a shame Dick Tracy's creator didn't patent all these ideas Apple, Samsung, et al, are all (arguably) stealing...

PocketSand11 said:
Yeah, I think it was meant as a joke. He just means that Apple's iWatch is going to rival or surpass Swiss watches in terms of looks, not that people are going to stop buying Swiss watches.
Click to expand...

So Apple is going to steal the look? Where've we heard that before, in articles of Android copying Apple, Samsung copying Apple, Microsoft copying Apple, Apple copying Xerox, Apple copying Android... man, how do people keep up reading news articles over the decades and remain sane in what is an obviously insane excuse of a culture?? Just curious...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: George Dawes
iPhilPHX said:
Haven't checked this thread in a long time. Is Switzerland still OK????
Click to expand...

Yes.

Think when this came out and still today people don't understand why classic watches sell.

Mid to higher end always had tighter markets, apple didn't change that really. Some spent the couple hundred up and (way) more in the old days. Some bought whatever at the counter of the store for 19.99. Not knocking it....don't have 500+, need a watch, timex did the trick as well.

Not even digital killed them off. Hell even digital copied classic as many over the years have had big hand little hand in digital format lol.
 
  • Like
Reactions: George Dawes
Pistol Peto said:
Swiss Watch Industry: "A recovery had been expected in the fourth quarter, but watch industry exports in fact reported their steepest fall of the year in October."

Apple: "Apple Watch sales to consumers set record in holiday week, says Apple's Cook"
Click to expand...



A record during the holiday week doesn't say much. How come you're not citing this one?

https://www.macrumors.com/2016/12/05/apple-watch-vs-wearables-idc-3q16/


Also, there are many reasons why Swiss exports are ailing, none of them involve the Apple Watch: the Swiss Franc is very strong, making Swiss products expensive abroad. The Chinese economy is down the drain, diminishing one of the watch industry's main market. And last but not least, not the entire watch industry is in trouble. Swatch Group is the main issue - mainly because other manufacturers (both Swiss and foreign) have moved towards producing their own movements or other alternatives, leaving SG sitting on a huge pile of ETA movements, which, traditionally, were one of their most lucrative products.

So please: do your research before you post next time.
 
Kis- I've done my research. I think you should do yours too. :)
  • I presented facts from the Swiss watch industry and a quote from Tim Cook, who is bound to making true statements as the CEO of a public company
  • You counter with an IDC report, the same IDC that said Windows phones were going to overtake the iPhone by 2015. They are guessing... and they're often wrong. This report was widely criticized.
  • You site many reasons for this loss, as if it was expected, but I linked to a report done by the actual Swiss watch industry. They expected a recovery. It's the first line in the report! I guess you know better though.
  • The Swiss Franc has been as strong in the past - without this dire result. That's a poor excuse and isn't what's happening here.
  • Chinese sales are actually up for the month. Hong Kong, US, Japan and Italy are all way down.
  • Watch sales are not down due to only movement issues - they are down (in double digits) across every price point the report measures.
  • While units of movements fell slightly more than the units of watches - the value of watches fell more than twice that of movements.
Apple released version 2 earlier this year. Waterproofing, GPS, faster processor, brighter display and they are selling it in record numbers. What about version 3, 4, 5 etc.?

Look at the graph in the report again Kis. It only goes one way and it's very UGLY.
 
Pistol Peto said:
Kis- I've done my research. I think you should do yours too. :)
  • I presented facts from the Swiss watch industry and a quote from Tim Cook, who is bound to making true statements as the CEO of a public company
  • You counter with an IDC report, the same IDC that said Windows phones were going to overtake the iPhone by 2015. They are guessing... and they're often wrong. This report was widely criticized.
  • You site many reasons for this loss, as if it was expected, but I linked to a report done by the actual Swiss watch industry. They expected a recovery. It's the first line in the report! I guess you know better though.
  • The Swiss Franc has been as strong in the past - without this dire result. That's a poor excuse and isn't what's happening here.
  • Chinese sales are actually up for the month. Hong Kong, US, Japan and Italy are all way down.
  • Watch sales are not down due to only movement issues - they are down (in double digits) across every price point the report measures.
  • While units of movements fell slightly more than the units of watches - the value of watches fell more than twice that of movements.
Apple released version 2 earlier this year. Waterproofing, GPS, faster processor, brighter display and they are selling it in record numbers. What about version 3, 4, 5 etc.?

Look at the graph in the report again Kis. It only goes one way and it's very UGLY.
Click to expand...
The last quarter doesn't make good reading but in the previous quarter the sales of Swiss watches in the same price ranges occupied by the Apple Watch and other smartwatches had actually increased.

Wristwatch-sales-by-price-segments-categories-August-2016-FH-aBlogtoWatch-2.jpg


While the sales of smartwatches and wearables is one of the factors affecting the Swiss watch industry, there are many other reasons why they are in trouble and they would still be facing this crisis even if Apple had not entered the smartwatch market. Some of these factors also help explain why Apple quietly dropped the solid gold Edition models from the range in September's updates.

http://www.ablogtowatch.com/demand-platinum-gold-watches-plummets/
 
  • Like
Reactions: George Dawes and kdarling
Thanks Olly.

The quarter after this report reversed this short uptick as you said. If the high end falls faster it's an added problem. The industry as a whole makes the lions share of profit off of the 3,000+ market. Here's the corresponding October graph:

592032-41a6e06524e3479d45a2cdf2978e1b0f.jpg


Agreed they would be facing a crisis anyway - and I don't have much hope for a good future.
 
This news today...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...oogle-apple-with-operating-system-for-watches

I give them somewhere between 'zero' and 'no chance' that this will pay off for them. Develop a new operating system? Out-design Apple or Google's manufacturing partners? Not bloody likely.

"Swatch also forecast a rebound in U.S. and European markets as it published its annual report Thursday. Hayek said revenue may increase about 7 percent to 9 percent this year."

Could happen - but it goes against the a negative trend that has lasted a full year.
 
Pistol Peto said:
This news today...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...oogle-apple-with-operating-system-for-watches

I give them somewhere between 'zero' and 'no chance' that this will pay off for them. Develop a new operating system? Out-design Apple or Google's manufacturing partners? Not bloody likely.

"Swatch also forecast a rebound in U.S. and European markets as it published its annual report Thursday. Hayek said revenue may increase about 7 percent to 9 percent this year."

Could happen - but it goes against the a negative trend that has lasted a full year.
Click to expand...


"The company’s Tissot brand will introduce a model around the end of 2018"

Apple will be on their Gen 3 or 4 model by this point.
 
The problem for swatch is a smart watch is really like a tiny phone. Screen, processor, battery, send/receive radios, and various sensors + software to make it run and connect to other things.

It's as if a company that makes mechanical pocket watches think they can compete with Apple and Google - when companies like Palm, HP, Microsoft, Blackberry, Nokia have failed miserably at it).

The fact that their product also goes on your wrist doesn't matter in the least. They may as well just say we're making a phone. There chances of success would be similar!

The fact that their stock rose after this announcement shows how irrational the stock market can be in a small timeframe.
 
atmenterprises said:
Well, not because of Apple but they do have something to worry about:

http://www.barrons.com/articles/swiss-watch-demand-slows-in-a-sign-of-the-times-1459486907
Click to expand...

They are awash in inventory because they aren't selling. Markets have been begging them to slow down shipments for a couple years because they already had too much inventory.

The entire Swiss watch industry sold $5.2 billion in Q4 - down 10% from the previous year.

Apple Watch sold an estimated $2.9 billion in the same period with only their second kick at the smart watch cat.

Must be a coincidence.
 
I wish Jony would pay more attention to the Mac line up and not a freaking wrist watch.
 
Pistol Peto said:
They are awash in inventory because they aren't selling. Markets have been begging them to slow down shipments for a couple years because they already had too much inventory.

The entire Swiss watch industry sold $5.2 billion in Q4 - down 10% from the previous year.

Apple Watch sold an estimated $2.9 billion in the same period with only their second kick at the smart watch cat.

Must be a coincidence.
Click to expand...

We will see.

I predict 2017 to be the year the Apple Watch takes off and gets mainstream adoption.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back