Jony Ive's Involvement at Apple Reportedly Tapered After the Original Apple Watch Launched in 2015

P-DogNC

macrumors newbie
Sep 8, 2016
20
16
North Carolina
Ah, when I saw the title of this article I thought to myself, “I can’t wait to see how all of the predictable MR hate bags will come out to slam Apple and Ive, etc.”. The tired old complaints about “thinness” and “lack of innovation” are, laughably, right on cue (not Eddie), as one would expect from the MR forums.

It’s part of the show that the rest of the Apple blogosphere anticipates from MR.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mainsail

Rogifan

macrumors Core
Nov 14, 2011
20,654
22,336
I actually find this encouraging because the Apple Watch series 4 design is very good. If this is true, Ive had little input on that design.
This Gurman piece didn’t really say much other than Ive wasn’t driving to Cupertino ever day. From what has been reported on in the past, the time between when Apple starts designing something and when it gets released is sometimes several years. For all we know employees at Apple were already working on the series 4 design when the original Watch launched.
 

Mainsail

macrumors 65816
Sep 19, 2010
1,138
980
“Tiredness” is code for ‘had enough with fighting office politics’.
You don’t have a clue and neither do I. How could we possibly know the medical, emotional, or personal details of this man’s life? Sometimes, it isn’t even that deep. Sometimes, people just need/want a change in their lives.

I worked at the same place for 33 years, but every 5 years or so, I wanted to change roles and take on different assignments and challenges. Sometimes, these were promotions. Sometimes, these were lateral changes. In almost every case, the change did me and the organization some good.
 

Glockworkorange

macrumors 68000
Feb 10, 2015
1,985
3,139
Chicago, Illinois
They've have products in the pipeline still touched by Ive, but ultimately and in the long run, this is going to hurt Apple. They're going to be run by a committee. Running things by committee is just an awful idea. It's a shame there won't be one person with a design background who can look and say "yes" or "no."

Does Steve Job's son Reed want anything to do with Apple? If his design tastes match his dad's, seems like maybe someone they'd want working there ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

Mainsail

macrumors 65816
Sep 19, 2010
1,138
980
Ah, when I saw the title of this article I thought to myself, “I can’t wait to see how all of the predictable MR hate bags will come out to slam Apple and Ive, etc.”. The tired old complaints about “thinness” and “lack of innovation” are, laughably, right on cue (not Eddie), as one would expect from the MR forums.

It’s part of the show that the rest of the Apple blogosphere anticipates from MR.
Agreed. As predicted, just a bunch of negative and judgmental posts about a guy who made enormous contributions to Apple!
 

Zdigital2015

macrumors 68000
Jul 14, 2015
1,689
1,738
East Coast, United States
I respect Ive's passion for design, however it led to a lot of issues with repairability for Apple's products. I'm looking forward to the change. I'm hoping this will do away with the butterfly keyboard and bring back "common sense" to product design.
I agree wholeheartedly and I think this is the crux of the issues for many people, myself included.

Without waxing philosophical about design, the 2009-2011 iMac contrasted with the 2012-2019 iMac is a prime example.

Anyone who has had to work on both can tell you that neither is a picnic to deal with the internals, but while the 2012 version helped to reduce a lot of bulk and weight, it did nothing to make it better for the end user.

  • Tapering the edge - Logically, it was time for the SuperDrive to go...downloads was how the vast majority of software was acquired and installed on computers by 2012. Eliminating saved bulk and reduced a failure point within the semi-sealed box. The side effect was that the SD Card slot got moved to the back, and much cursing and lamenting could be heard around the world, and for good reason. The extreme tapering of the entire chassis also reduced the amount of volume of air that could flow through the chassis as well, reducing the choice of components that the hardware engineers could propose and had to work with, which meant soldering RAM in the 21.5" iMac, only being able to accommodate 2.5" drives in the 21.5" along with being restricted to mobile GPUs.
  • Laminated screen - While the 2009-2011 iMac was (is) a complete mess on the inside, at least it was easier to remover the glass and consequently, the LCD. Instead of the elegant magnets or a similar solution for the 2012-present model, we got sticky tape. And an industry of plastic pizza wheels and replacement sticky strips was born. Hardly an elegant design solution.
  • Heat - At the time the 2012 was launched, SSD storage was extraordinarily expensive and PCIe-based storage was still in it nascent form, leaving Apple to fit a confined box with a 3.5" HDD, causing all sorts of undue heat related issues that persist to this day. Here we are in the year 2019 and still dealing with the same chassis and still dealing with mechanical storage.
  • Ease of repairability - While the 2009-2011 iMac had an easy solution to remove the front panel glass, once you got past it and removed the LCD, you were still greeted by a rather messy array of components and wires, no central cooling solution, metal frames and haphazard layout. Source: https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/TLfSqZEZWnTwKylR.huge - on the flip side, the 2012-2019 iMac is a real PITA to get the LCD off, yet has a very tidy and improved internal layout. Source: https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/EAasL3saVmxoLrQT.full - Imagine a tidy layout like the Late 2013 inside the 2009-2011 chassis, with better airflow, better access to components and more thermal headroom.
While I appreciate elegant designs, I still feel that compromises for schedules get made and lead to things like superstring adhesives and glue being used, where better or at least longer term solutions are warranted for a variety of reasons.

I still admire what Ive created during his tenure, but it gets very hard to deny that form over function needs aa serious reset and that he had been phoning it in for quite a while. I certainly hope that the next round of hardware from Apple begins incorporating better repairability (top case replacement for a laptop keyboard might be a good place to start reworking things) and user upgradeability where it makes sense (sorry, no m.2 NVMe slots, though, users will shoot their eyes out), a clear differentiation between Pro and Consumer grade products (not just higher prices for the Pro moniker).

I wish Ive a bon voyage in his new venture, and I hope that Apple can now move past the stasis that existed and the work of moving industrial design forward on all Apple products can begin anew.
 

orangehand

macrumors newbie
Oct 23, 2006
19
6
Yet, Ive still found time to make those lousy product introduction voiceovers that I love to make fun of. You know, those "magical" ones with "al-loo-minium"!
Are you trying to suggest the Al-You-MinIUM is not the correct way to pronounce it? I think you will find that you are mistaken!!
 

ksec

macrumors 6502a
Dec 23, 2015
945
899
I think Ive is tired years prior to Apple Watch because there has been less motivation. Steve would used to motivate people, challenge the status quo. These genius were pushed to their utter limit, and we saw the best of Apple from it.

Lacking the cheer leader is what causes problem. These people are leaving, quickly as well. If you count the executive left before Steve Jobs and after Steve Jobs died, you can see the turn over is few times more, ( Way below industry average, but still a lot higher in Apple's term. ) Angela Ahrendts said this in one of her interview, everywhere she go she will hear people say Steve Jobs said this and Steve Jobs wanted this. A lot of Steve Jobs vision is still in Apple, but the "Why", they question of Why were these in here the first place seems to be a little lost.

I think Gruber's pieces is very well written [1], and points out the fundamental issues with current Apple. As well as not having a CDO, and placing Design under COO.

Finally, it would be nice if they could bring back Scott Forstall.

[1] https://daringfireball.net/2019/06/jony_ive_leaves_apple
 

Zdigital2015

macrumors 68000
Jul 14, 2015
1,689
1,738
East Coast, United States
Oh I don't know......

The Magic Mouse charging port was pure cheaping out on doing anything more than the bare minimum hardware engineering necessary, but it is a horrible design considering I can still use my Magic Keyboard and Trackpad connected via USB to my iMac for charging, but my mouse now resembles a dead opossum on the side of the highway.

The Apple Pencil recharging is ugly and dangerous, but it does work, but it is just fraught with peril...I always use the female-female adapter and a Lightning cable to charge my Pencil.

The current Apple Pencil wireless charging is great, until you realize it the only way to charge the Pencil, made doubly worse by the cancellation of the AirPower Mat.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Huck

jeyf

macrumors 65816
Jan 20, 2009
1,187
540
i really got burnt on the 2017 MBP keyboard
my other apple products; iMac & iPhone7 behave odd for one reason or another too.

sounds like Sir Jonathan Paul Ive was not doing a full days work at Apple for some time.
 

supercoolmanchu

macrumors 6502
Mar 5, 2012
261
431
Hollywood
This Gurman piece didn’t really say much other than Ive wasn’t driving to Cupertino ever day. From what has been reported on in the past, the time between when Apple starts designing something and when it gets released is sometimes several years. For all we know employees at Apple were already working on the series 4 design when the original Watch launched.
Hasn’t Ive been working for the company that makes FaceTime?

It would be really handy if there was some technology he helped develop at Apple that might avoid burning 2-3 hours a day in traffic.

If Jony Ive can’t beat the typical workday drudgeries through technology he designs, what hope is there for any of you humans?

But these types of thoughts don’t occur to the typical Starbucks cough-weight reporter class.
 

supercoolmanchu

macrumors 6502
Mar 5, 2012
261
431
Hollywood
i really got burnt on the 2017 MBP keyboard
my other apple products; iMac & iPhone7 behave odd for one reason or another too.

sounds like Sir Jonathan Paul Ive was not doing a full days work at Apple for some time.
Sounds like a user problem honestly. All three different devices behaving erratically, each with its own software and components. The only constant between the three is the user, and since it’s difficult to ascertain the quality of the beta or dev cycle there, guessing that’s the most likely issue across all three.
 

Relentless Power

macrumors Nehalem
Jul 12, 2016
30,357
30,609
It Must be really easy to knock Jony Ive on the internet, because you know... everyone in here is a design engineer by trade for one of the largest tech companies in the world. The reality is, not everyone’s going to agree with all his design aspect/cues with his products over the years, but it doesn’t change that Apple still has some of the most unique designs on the market, that hold sophistication and elegance in my opinion.
 

neutralguy

macrumors 6502a
Jun 5, 2015
765
879
He gets paid THAT MUCH only to show up twice a week? With minimal effort he had put into Apple design recent years, this is straight up stealing LOL.:rolleyes:
I think most of the Bay area workers show up 2-3 days a week to work because of traffic. So that's not some thing unnatural.
 

Zdigital2015

macrumors 68000
Jul 14, 2015
1,689
1,738
East Coast, United States
I'm going to indulge in a bit of role-play here, hope you don't mind. Now, most of these are Captain Obvious items, so don't shoot the messenger. They may also be in the process of changeover as well, so it may be moot.

Were I the Chief Design Officer, these would be my top five (5) priorities walking in the door -

1) Fix the MacBook Pro butterfly keyboard situation - like it or hate it, believe the hype or not, the situation is still a PR mess that Apple has not handled in a stellar manner. First thing would be to figure out the next evolution of the MacBook Pro and design a chassis that can accommodate a different mechanism.

2) Carry that fix over to the MacBook Air and MacBook lines - cannot have one without the other two.

3) iMac redesign - the current iteration is essentially two revs and 10 years old, it's time. Also, the XDR Display ID would be the logical place to start iterating from for a variety of reason. Love it or hate it, it has its merits.

4.1) Reintroduce a bit more dimension back into iOS and macOS icon, UI and UX design - iOS 7 was harsh and so far opposite that even Apple has pulled back little by little over the years. No, I don't mean go back to Aqua, its day is done, but there needs to be a system-wide rethink of textures, patterns, details and implementation.

4.2) Harmonize the UI styles for Apple's applications to build a better consistency for users to retain and discover the functions inside of applications. Inconsistent toolbar/sidebar icons from app to app reminds me of Windows...among other things that Jony phoned in over the years. He really didn't care once the initial iOS 7 work was done, because he is an Industrial Designer not a software UI/UX guy. Otherwise, we wouldn't have a + button at the bottom of the Reminders app on iPhone, which drove me mad as I tried to discover how to add a Reminder since the bottom make no ****ing sense when its hidden off-****ing-screen!!!

5) iPhone design - the triple camera bump is ugly to say the least, if it comes to reality, the iPhone is slippery as hell compared to the chamfered iPhone 4, 4s, 5, 5s and SE. These are beautiful designs that have stood the test of time and there is gold there to mine for the next iPhone designs, IMHO.

That's it...well, not really, but Jony didn't get to make hardware decisions, I think he did the rough drafts, had others finish it and then he said, build it, and must have had veto power over most, if not all, design changes requested by the Hardware division. Their job was to make it work...that is all. I can tell you, there are some who won't be sorry to see him go, that's for sure.
 

nexusrule

macrumors 6502
Aug 11, 2012
468
397
Ooooh poor thing...the money bag was too heavy I guess. And what exactly made him tired? The years and years of same design for the iPhone and Mac lineup? Or changing the colour theme in iOS? Without someone like Steve Jobs pushing him he's just overrated as hell right now.
Sure, instead I am sure you are a misunderstood genius and master of your craft... what a sad show envy is...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mainsail

Rogifan

macrumors Core
Nov 14, 2011
20,654
22,336
The Magic Mouse charging port was pure cheaping out on doing anything more than the bare minimum hardware engineering necessary, but it is a horrible design considering I can still use my Magic Keyboard and Trackpad connected via USB to my iMac for charging, but my mouse now resembles a dead opossum on the side of the highway.

The Apple Pencil recharging is ugly and dangerous, but it does work, but it is just fraught with peril...I always use the female-female adapter and a Lightning cable to charge my Pencil.

The current Apple Pencil wireless charging is great, until you realize it the only way to charge the Pencil, made doubly worse by the cancellation of the AirPower Mat.
Apple never touted the pencil charging via iPads as anything other than for quick top offs. I used it frequently and it worked well. The solution they have now is much better but that obviously wasn’t ready for gen 1.
 
  • Like
Reactions: J.J. Sefton

GrumpyMom

macrumors G3
Sep 11, 2014
8,333
11,492
Ooooh poor thing...the money bag was too heavy I guess. And what exactly made him tired? The years and years of same design for the iPhone and Mac lineup? Or changing the colour theme in iOS? Without someone like Steve Jobs pushing him he's just overrated as hell right now.
I had to admit to wondering that myself. He’s about the same age as my husband and our friends who show up to work every single day through nightmare commutes and deal with crap all day long and don’t have even a fraction of the luxuries and recognition this man has. And they all still dive in and do things for their children when they are home.

The only thing I can think of, is that the creative nature of his work suffers under the usual business pressures.

Oh well, I wish him the best. At least now I understand why my Xr was allowed to be thicker than my older iPhones.
 
  • Like
Reactions: arkitect