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IrishVixen

macrumors 68020
Jun 20, 2010
2,497
104
Is Day One's features worth $50/year? (Or $24.99/year for those of us who actually use Day One 2 currently).

As a daily Day One 2.0 user...this is the heart of the issue for me.

Yes, I agree with nearly everyone here that subscriptions suck. I've successfully avoided all of them so far...1Password has come closest to snaring me and eventually it probably will, but for now, I still use the apps I paid for from them and not their cloud based service.

That said, I would consider paying a reasonable amount on a sub basis for Day One to guarantee it remained supported. I like it a lot, it's become an important part of my daily routines. I just don't find $25 a year reasonable for this app, not when compared to the value of other software as a service subs, and especially not when weighed against their closest competitors (other journal apps, none of which I've found have subs more than $5/yr) or even alternatives such as Bear at $15. It's simply not versatile enough to justify the kind of pricing they're asking for, even at the "discounted" rate. And judging by the backlash so far, I can't see how they'll grow their customer base in a sustainable way going forward with the even more expensive $34.99 subs for newcomers, which makes me wonder just how long they'll be around going forward.

Then on top of that, they mismanged this whole introduction. The time to do this was when you actually had new services/features to offer. If you already have Day One 2.0, as near as I can tell you gained nothing by subscribing this week...yes, eventually you'll get unlimited journals and photos, but according to the Twitter responses, it doesn't look like that's actually happened yet (and the photos aren't stored in full resolution...ick). The advertised new subscription-only features like audio recording have no set release date, and judging by the length of time it took the devs to get encryption done + the still missing Publish function that hasn't been restored yet to 2.0, I'm not willing to subscribe based on their promises alone that new features I don't even care about are "coming soon".

I honestly don't want to switch. With the exception of having customizable templates within the app, and a running word count (neither of which is apparently planned), Day One provides all I need from a journaling app, wrapped in an elegant UI. But I'm going to be experimenting with alternatives over the coming weeks while hoping they come to their senses soon on pricing.
 

Ssjsjdifififkdkdk

macrumors newbie
Jul 1, 2017
3
12
As a daily Day One 2.0 user...this is the heart of the issue for me.

Yes, I agree with nearly everyone here that subscriptions suck. I've successfully avoided all of them so far...1Password has come closest to snaring me and eventually it probably will, but for now, I still use the apps I paid for from them and not their cloud based service.

That said, I would consider paying a reasonable amount on a sub basis for Day One to guarantee it remained supported. I like it a lot, it's become an important part of my daily routines. I just don't find $25 a year reasonable for this app, not when compared to the value of other software as a service subs, and especially not when weighed against their closest competitors (other journal apps, none of which I've found have subs more than $5/yr) or even alternatives such as Bear at $15. It's simply not versatile enough to justify the kind of pricing they're asking for, even at the "discounted" rate. And judging by the backlash so far, I can't see how they'll grow their customer base in a sustainable way going forward with the even more expensive $34.99 subs for newcomers, which makes me wonder just how long they'll be around going forward.

Then on top of that, they mismanged this whole introduction. The time to do this was when you actually had new services/features to offer. If you already have Day One 2.0, as near as I can tell you gained nothing by subscribing this week...yes, eventually you'll get unlimited journals and photos, but according to the Twitter responses, it doesn't look like that's actually happened yet (and the photos aren't stored in full resolution...ick). The advertised new subscription-only features like audio recording have no set release date, and judging by the length of time it took the devs to get encryption done + the still missing Publish function that hasn't been restored yet to 2.0, I'm not willing to subscribe based on their promises alone that new features I don't even care about are "coming soon".

I honestly don't want to switch. With the exception of having customizable templates within the app, and a running word count (neither of which is apparently planned), Day One provides all I need from a journaling app, wrapped in an elegant UI. But I'm going to be experimenting with alternatives over the coming weeks while hoping they come to their senses soon on pricing.

I really wanted them to succeed. I bought 2.0 because I really loved 1.0 and wanted to support them. 2.0 didn't bring anything except for multiple journals and multiple photos. I didn't use any of those features and actually found 2.0 much slower. I really hated the loss of Dropbox support since that meant all of my custom scripts broke.

The point that really makes me mad is that many of the features they announced as a roadmap for 2.0 were never released, and some of them are now "premium" features. Features like audio, publishing, and more.

Source: (2016 January) http://dayoneapp.com/2016/01/introducing-day-one-2/
 

macjunk(ie)

macrumors 6502a
Aug 12, 2009
939
563
...

The point that really makes me mad is that many of the features they announced as a roadmap for 2.0 were never released, and some of them are now "premium" features. Features like audio, publishing, and more.

Source: (2016 January) http://dayoneapp.com/2016/01/introducing-day-one-2/

This is interesting! So a lot of those features never made it to v2.
I think this subscription model will just encourage them to be even more nonchalant.
 

Nilhum

macrumors regular
Dec 20, 2016
210
309
I just use Pages and my journal is encrypted. It's free and it works quite well.

What features does Day One give you that you can't get from Microsoft Word or Pages?
 

IrishVixen

macrumors 68020
Jun 20, 2010
2,497
104
I really wanted them to succeed. I bought 2.0 because I really loved 1.0 and wanted to support them. 2.0 didn't bring anything except for multiple journals and multiple photos. I didn't use any of those features and actually found 2.0 much slower. I really hated the loss of Dropbox support since that meant all of my custom scripts broke.

The point that really makes me mad is that many of the features they announced as a roadmap for 2.0 were never released, and some of them are now "premium" features. Features like audio, publishing, and more.

Source: (2016 January) http://dayoneapp.com/2016/01/introducing-day-one-2/

Ugh. I hadn't paid attention to just how many things had been promised for 2.0 that still haven't happened. I jumped to 2.0 for the multiple photos/multiple journals and didn't pay attention to much else at the time. And then there's this, from the same source (emphasis mine):

Our new sync engine is blazingly fast, secure, and free

Well, it's sure not free anymore unless you were grandfathered in. And people questioned the security of it until end-to-end encryption finally came out.
 

windowpain

macrumors 6502a
Apr 19, 2008
590
100
Japan
I just use Pages and my journal is encrypted. It's free and it works quite well.

What features does Day One give you that you can't get from Microsoft Word or Pages?

I prefer it as it handles the combination of photos and written entries better.
I can attach 10 pictures to each post and they are geotagged..I then have a map of places I have been to and entries attached with them. The search function works well and it is a well designed app.

Saying that, I am not a massive user of day one, maybe an entry or two a week..but it does the job well.
If you are just journaling thoughts or written entries then probably something else will suffice.

I don't have $50 bucks worth a year out of it, as this is more than I pay for Amazon prime (tv shows, movies, music and fast deliveries.) (¥3900 in Japan about $45 amazing value for money.)

For my use, I feel $1 a month would be reasonable. That's $12 a year.
If I was a heavier user than I would probably pay more, but I would guess that the majority of users (and potential users) are not hardcore fans.
 

Abazigal

Contributor
Jul 18, 2011
19,551
21,997
Singapore
Is there a reason why so many services seem to be increasingly using their own cloud services to sync? What's wrong with tapping on existing infrastructure such as iCloud or Dropbox? They make it sound like a plus, but I am not sure exactly what the value add is.
 

afinelion

macrumors newbie
May 20, 2014
10
7
This might not be the most popular post on the forum, but has it occurred to anyone that in order to develop and grow an application, you need a real company with real people? These people might happen to eat lunch, might want an apartment of their own, and they might even want a family and their own retirement one day. Imagine that. Every app might not just be some garage hobby.

It's not just the 401(k) "take the paved path" variety who enjoy an air of stability.

Developing, designing, and maintaining an application is arduous. And there are people who stay up in the middle of the night working on this just to make their user base happy. The App Store was a concept that allows people to focus on their own ideas and a core group of users. So many go in, try, fail, and flop.

Yes, I understand that it's annoying that everyone charges as much as Netflix does, but these companies—very often small and relatively lean—contribute a lot to the greater technology economy. Buying an app isn't just paying for the app; it's paying for the entire environment around and keeping the progress of our own user experiences moving forward. It's humans investing their labor into their own virtual experience. You can't be a crappy app in the App Store these days to survive, which means you need people who have talent to produce things.

Even a one or two person development team might have a really hard time stretching out a huge wave of single-app sales. You might make a million bucks, but chances are, when you do, you're likely starting to think about how you're going to use that money to immediately reinvest in your product and its future versions. These people aren't immediately striking gold as much as it seems. The payout needs to be WORTH THE RISK.

I think a cool model would be where we pay for usage (e.g. per pack of notes or journal entries) would tie more closely into the actual worth of the product. The monthly model has become trite, and I find much more value in the in-app purchase model.

Either way, people need to stop griping about paying regularly for apps. The app can't exist without the people who take the chance and who make it happen. Some apps suck; some apps are worth WAY more than they charge, and they depend on mass market sales. When an app only has a small core user base, they're incited to instead do a subscription model so they can experience some vague notion of revenue stability and predictability over time.
 

macintoshmac

Suspended
May 13, 2010
6,089
6,991
Is there a reason why so many services seem to be increasingly using their own cloud services to sync? What's wrong with tapping on existing infrastructure such as iCloud or Dropbox? They make it sound like a plus, but I am not sure exactly what the value add is.

The value addition is not to you. It is to the developer, in the sense that now your data resides in one more place - and not your place - his place, and this can often serve to discourage people from kissing the app goodbye when they decide they have had enough. Just another deterrent is a value addition that has great power over simple task users of apps who know just to use the app for the purpose, not to manage the devices and such.

I can erase my iPhone anytime because I know that my contacts, bookmarks and such are always in iCloud and synced. Here, the moment I stop paying, I have to look at export options, import options in another software, and what not, and instead of all that, I would only then think to keep the subscription rolling, if I did not know better.

Subscriptions work for software that is very actively developed and that has reached a certain scale of complexity. Now, everyone wants to have a subscription service. I'd like to know, being developers themselves and deciding to charge a hefty subscription, how many subscriptions do these DO guys have currently, and how many are they willing to add on to their lives? Let's see if they will love sacrificing so many coffees a month that they cannot drink one a day anymore without someone sacrificing his coffee for these guys to drink theirs. This coffee example is a pathetic example. They should be able to command what they ask, not just demand citing such low examples. They are not beggars, why ask people to skip a coffee and subscribe? Just give them enough value to keep paying. Not easily done, I get it, I know it, but that is the level I would hold myself to if I was in commercial app development, as I am in content writing. The comparison to coffee, or anything else, is fundamentally incorrect. It only always shows lack of confidence in your own product/ service.

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When an app only has a small core user base, they're incited to instead do a subscription model so they can experience some vague notion of revenue stability and predictability over time.

And they should behave responsibly at that time, and stick to focusing on creating the best possible user experience with the best possible feature set that users demand and that they can conceive, bring it out next version and charge, bring out another great feature set and charge again, maybe yearly.

Underlying thing is that you have to have a very solid base, not user base, but base of your service, and you have to have a very clear vision into the future direction of your service. You cannot cite MS or Adobe and say that hey, what's another coffee or two?

I paid for version 1. I have a lot of paid apps on iOS and on Mac and never did I think that hey, this developer just changed version number and charged me the full price again. Why? Because all the apps I use, they offered serious advantages over the previous version and I saw that price is justified if I want those new enhancements.

Why do I pay roughly $12-14 for MS per month? Because I do not want to get stuck with a hefty tag right now, and when it spreads out over 5 years, at the end of that term I still have the version and feature set I bought, while if I had subscribed and spread my payment across the term, it would not only be friendlier on the wallet but also allow me to remain up to date with the apps. Win-win situation. Definitely NOT with DayOne.

Adobe has decided that there are apps that you can use forever, and we will have another set of apps that are in active development with constant fixes and feature-additions every few months, and charge a subscription. Fair enough for those who need to use it, who see value. Why? Because they are offering constant developmental front-end changes. I do not need it, so I have not taken it.

Over the years, I have paid for 4 versions of Rapidweaver from Realmac Software, got key to latest version free from them (I had only talked to them about my inability to pay the discounted upgrade price because it was showing full price instead, and due to some last minute time zone issue, they responded with a free key), so I was willing to pay for that version upgrade as well, 2 versions of Art Text from Belight Software, 3 versions of Swift Publisher from Belight and 4th I got free because of a small technical issue to which they decided to give me the key free, I have Transmit 4 and I will py for Transmit 5 if it comes to payment, I have Infuse on my iPhone I have paid for 2 versions of it already. I have a Todoist subscription since 2 years. I pay for Quickbooks subscription since 3 years. I have a Webshots biennial subscription as well. I paid for Things and Things 2. Since I moved to Todoist I did not pay for Things 3 that came out now. I purchased Studiometry 10 and then upgraded to 11 as well when it came out.

So, just like me, people in general are definitely not against payment. They support the developers and understand that major versions are the times when developers will ask for payment again, mostly because they have a substantial betterment to offer. All of the examples above offered significant enough upgrades that I did not feel ONCE that I am being robbed. Swift Publisher, for example, in its latest version 5 does not offer too many differences from version 4, and its price reflects that, just $20. Lowest ever for Swift Publisher. So, I know that the developers are fair and honest as well. They know they need to charge, and they are charging in proportion of what they are offering.

People are against payment when they are not able to see that much upgrade in value to justify the payment asked for it. Resolve that, instead of arguing about one or two coffees and Apple subscription model with new iPhones every year and what not. That is just not only bad taste but bad argument, because of which it is bad taste. Which is what is happening with this backlash with DO. These guys are not offering that value to people for them to have went subscription based.
 
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newellj

macrumors G3
Oct 15, 2014
8,127
3,030
East of Eden
This might not be the most popular post on the forum, but has it occurred to anyone that in order to develop and grow an application, you need a real company with real people? These people might happen to eat lunch, might want an apartment of their own, and they might even want a family and their own retirement one day. Imagine that. Every app might not just be some garage hobby.

Definitely think $25/year is pushing it - $50/year is not going to net a lot of users. But if it keeps the app going... I'd much rather use something that uses the cloud subscription I'm already paying for though ($20/year for 100GB).

Here's the thing: I think there's a very high chance that they've just guaranteed essentially zero new users, for life. Day One is great, but it's not 50% as useful (or as expensive to keep developing) as Office 365. I don't think $50 will keep it going - I suspect that it guarantees that a great app is headed for the grave.
 

sk1wbw

Suspended
May 28, 2011
3,483
1,010
Williamsburg, Virginia
I don't really understand, either. You can use TextEdit or WordPad for free, or even Word or OneNote since most people already have those.



To be fair, a $300 fountain pen might look insane to some people :p

But a Uni-Ball Signo UM-151 or Pilot Juice would be very pleasant for next to nothing.

Yeah, it's a bit pricey for the ordinary person, but a drop in the bucket compared to some other higher end pens. And it writes as smooth as my freshly shaved melon. Unreal, I love it.
 
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Ssjsjdifififkdkdk

macrumors newbie
Jul 1, 2017
3
12
I found some more promised features when DayOne was released. I'm wondering if I should just scratch my itch and make something akin to a slightly more modern Day One 1.0. I don't think it takes much effort with all the competitors that have come out.

Bolded items are one that I can tell as having made it into DayOne 2.0. Correct me if I'm wrong, please.

Q: What’s next from the Day One team?
Lots… and it makes us very happy. Here’s a sampling of our 2016 priorities:

  • Apple ID Login—Day One will use your device’s Apple ID for enabling Day One services, including Day One Sync, Publish, and more.
  • IFTTT—We will support this popular platform for connecting various web-based services and web-enabled devices.
  • Favorite Locations—GPS is only so accurate. We’ll make the location setting for entries more precise.
  • Publish—Similar to what exists in Day One Classic, we will provide the ability to post selected entries to Day One-hosted webpages.
  • Encryption—Day One Sync will include end-to-end encryption, the gold standard for data security.
  • Localization—We will translate the Day One apps into several international languages.
  • Activity Feed—Social media activity and other imported data.
  • Book Printing—We will integrate with a physical book printing service.
  • Android and Web Clients—We will commence work on these platforms.

Source: http://web.archive.org/web/20170113112515/http://help.dayoneapp.com/day-one-2-0-faq/
 
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IrishVixen

macrumors 68020
Jun 20, 2010
2,497
104
I found some more promised features when DayOne was released. I'm wondering if I should just scratch my itch and make something akin to a slightly more modern Day One 1.0. I don't think it takes much effort with all the competitors that have come out.

Bolded items are one that I can tell as having made it into DayOne 2.0. Correct me if I'm wrong, please.

Q: What’s next from the Day One team?
Lots… and it makes us very happy. Here’s a sampling of our 2016 priorities:

  • Apple ID Login—Day One will use your device’s Apple ID for enabling Day One services, including Day One Sync, Publish, and more.
  • IFTTT—We will support this popular platform for connecting various web-based services and web-enabled devices.
  • Favorite Locations—GPS is only so accurate. We’ll make the location setting for entries more precise.
  • Publish—Similar to what exists in Day One Classic, we will provide the ability to post selected entries to Day One-hosted webpages.
  • Encryption—Day One Sync will include end-to-end encryption, the gold standard for data security.
  • Localization—We will translate the Day One apps into several international languages.
  • Activity Feed—Social media activity and other imported data.
  • Book Printing—We will integrate with a physical book printing service.
  • Android and Web Clients—We will commence work on these platforms.

Source: http://web.archive.org/web/20170113112515/http://help.dayoneapp.com/day-one-2-0-faq/

Book printing started a month or so ago. I believe Activity Feed is also active, though I don't use it, so hopefully someone can confirm if it actually works. Favorite locations is in there, and my understanding is that you can use your Apple ID to sign into sync...that's caused people to think they were still syncing to iCloud.
 

LDNA

macrumors newbie
Jul 2, 2017
27
23
IMG_9360.PNG

The CEO of Day One/Bloom Built.

Not a smart decision, but we keep receipts. Hold them responsible.

Sometimes venturing outside of the tech blogger echo chamber can be a good thing. Maybe it'll prevent you from charging $50/year for a glorified text editor. Maybe it'll allow you to take a five second breather from this d**k measuring contest.

And yes I am a multi-year Day One user who wrote a scathing App Store review. I can provide receipts for both of these claims.

Source: https://twitter.com/paulmayne/status/879473892011659266 (http://archive.is/YUo7F)
 
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BigMcGuire

Cancelled
Jan 10, 2012
9,832
14,025
I don't have Facebook installed but it seems to do a fairly good job with the activity feed - they thought people would want to import stuff that was happening on social media. This doesn't apply to me at all as I don't use it.

Yeah, I use the Day One sync with my Apple ID. I can see how people thought this was iCloud.



Wow a lot of great posts above! Yeah I have spent probably $200-$300 on apps over the last 2 years. I definitely like to "support" developers. I paid 1 year of $24.99 just because I like Day One and I want to "support it" but doesn't negate the fact that I have a bad taste in my mouth (I think it's a lot of $ and I don't like subscriptions). I'd rather just pay $40 up front - but I think people like that are a dying breed. People would rather pay less up front and do "subscriptions" than pay more up front.

Day One definitely hasn't done a great job meeting its goals / priorities. Their communication with their customers is also what I'd consider to be poor. This is coming from a huge Day One fan. Not every company is perfect so I don't hold it against them - it didn't make me not pay the $24.99.

But like @newellj said so perfectly:

Here's the thing: I think there's a very high chance that they've just guaranteed essentially zero new users, for life. Day One is great, but it's not 50% as useful (or as expensive to keep developing) as Office 365. I don't think $50 will keep it going - I suspect that it guarantees that a great app is headed for the grave.

This strikes me as a "let's monetize the **** out of this before it dies off" move. This move, as newellj said, probably helps them remain profitable with their current userbase (those that don't cancel because of this) but it is definitely going to alienate new users.
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View attachment 706924
The CEO of Day One/Bloom Built.

Not a smart decision, but we keep receipts. Hold them responsible.

Unlimited forever makes me laugh. Those of us that were burned by Microsoft going "unlimited" for OneDrive .... then changing their mind just a year later. Makes me frown when companies use "unlimited" - just place a big limit so you don't have to retract the unlimited later on.
 

Ssjsjdifififkdkdk

macrumors newbie
Jul 1, 2017
3
12
Book printing started a month or so ago. I believe Activity Feed is also active, though I don't use it, so hopefully someone can confirm if it actually works. Favorite locations is in there, and my understanding is that you can use your Apple ID to sign into sync...that's caused people to think they were still syncing to iCloud.

Updated my post. I guess they did make good on the majority of those promises. I just wish they actually provided value to me. I don't want to share my journal entries, and I'm not a big social media fan (no social media accounts). Just wish they would have made it non-laggy and stopped trying to write their own sync solution. If you look at their Twitter, it's gone down multiple times. All that effort spent having 7 devs maintain a sync solution is wasted IMO.
 

Michaelgtrusa

macrumors 604
Oct 13, 2008
7,900
1,821
Updated my post. I guess they did make good on the majority of those promises. I just wish they actually provided value to me. I don't want to share my journal entries, and I'm not a big social media fan (no social media accounts). Just wish they would have made it non-laggy and stopped trying to write their own sync solution. If you look at their Twitter, it's gone down multiple times. All that effort spent having 7 devs maintain a sync solution is wasted IMO.
This may be costing them more money.
 

Honeymoon

macrumors newbie
Dec 23, 2016
13
3
Jersey Shore, NJ
This is just ridiculous. I'll be finding a new journaling app. I'm not giving DayOne $50 a year for a journal app.

After giving this some more thought... My feeling is that DayOne should really consider the original supporters of their app (those of us who have purchased DayOne "Classic" when it was in its first release and early stages of being new to the app store... And even more so, those of us who have continued to support DayOne by upgrading to the new DayOne 2.0 app after its release).

Why not recognize it's early supporters and somehow grandfather them into their new business model by rewarding them for their loyalty over the years?
 

sk1wbw

Suspended
May 28, 2011
3,483
1,010
Williamsburg, Virginia
After giving this some more thought... My feeling is that DayOne should really consider the original supporters of their app (those of us who have purchased DayOne "Classic" when it was in its first release and early stages of being new to the app store... And even more so, those of us who have continued to support DayOne by upgrading to the new DayOne 2.0 app after its release).

Why not recognize it's early supporters and somehow grandfather them into their new business model by rewarding them for their loyalty over the years?

Come on now, there ain't no money in that.
 

Abazigal

Contributor
Jul 18, 2011
19,551
21,997
Singapore
Yeah, this is what bakes my noodle too.

It's a journal for goodness sake. You can do that in a basic text editor or word processor or Scrivener or WordPress blog etc
Dayone has an interface optimised for mobile and quick input and access. You are essentially paying for "niceness", even if it doesn't necessarily result in any new features or functionality.
 

macintoshmac

Suspended
May 13, 2010
6,089
6,991
Why not recognize it's early supporters and somehow grandfather them into their new business model by rewarding them for their loyalty over the years?

Grandfathers of the world? I don't think so. Sounds a little extreme.

Just because you've been using electricity in your house for all these years, should they stop increasing tariff and give it to their loyal paying customers for free now? Charge only the new customers?

Put anything in place of electricity. This is truly the most condescending argument I have come across. Loyal users getting a lifetime pass after 2 version payments, that's it? They are considering our age and giving is 50% off. I am one of them with that standing offer.

The issue here is DO choosing to go subscription model when they were doing so good regardless and people paid to upgrade to version 2, those who felt the new one brought more value to their use case.
 

Osty

macrumors 6502a
Jul 15, 2008
561
518
Melbourne, AU
Dayone has an interface optimised for mobile and quick input and access. You are essentially paying for "niceness", even if it doesn't necessarily result in any new features or functionality.

Yeah, I get that. Nice UI wrapping a journaling workflow that jells with some people. If it works then I don't begrudge anyone rolling with it.

Thing is, I don't see why anyone couldn't replace it with an app that lets you build your own workflow. Scrivener, Editorial, Ulysses, Drafts and IA Writer all come to mind as alternatives that are great on mobile, offer free syncing and are malleable.
 
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