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Shirasaki

macrumors P6
May 16, 2015
15,710
11,012
After reading the article my mind smh reads developers receiving $25m out of $100m settlement fee. Weird.
On a more serious note tho, judges in America is so rich, no wonder there are so many lawyers. Big money.
 

Shirasaki

macrumors P6
May 16, 2015
15,710
11,012
This is the biggest sign that Apple wanted to eliminate the number of developers who can complain in the future. It's really a muzzle in disguise.
All for a pocket Change of meager $100mil. Talking about cost efficiency. The more developer sue, the lower chance they can sue Apple in the future, eventually losing the right to sue Apple under any circumstances.
 

ethanwa79

macrumors 6502
Sep 13, 2014
428
1,657
$27m is a ridiculous fee for $100m payout. I don’t care what your opinion is on the lawsuit… lawyers fees like this are just insane.

I can promise you $27m worth of work was not completed here. I mean the case didn’t even go to trial!!

I’m siding with the judge on this nonsense.
 

bluespark

macrumors 68040
Jul 11, 2009
3,112
4,037
Chicago
So, Apple can't charge 30%. Which was known and agreed too for some time. However, lawyers can charge 25%?
Is anyone else not seeing this? 27 is too high, she wants 25.
"how much less each class member would receive if she awarded $25 million in attorney fees instead of $27 million."

No issues with that??? Just going to let that walk.
Why not? A ton of legal work goes into achieving a class action settlement, and while Apple's lawyers bill by the hour, plaintiffs' attorneys typically are paid on a contingency basis, meaning they take nothing at all if they lose. The advantage to the system is that class members do not have to pay up front for legal counsel, which of course greatly increases their ability to bring suits such as this one. Various courts considering the amount of legal hours spent have determined that a contingent fee of 25-40% may be appropriate, depending on circumstances. California courts have set that typical fee at 25%.
 

Scoob Redux

macrumors 6502a
Sep 25, 2020
580
891
Yep. The best is a medical malpractice lawsuit. The defending health care worker is going against a lay jury and lawyers that know nothing about medicine, and “expert witnesses” that accept payment to bend the truth to the plaintiff’s narrative. The American justice system is a joke.
No, our system is the last place that citizens have any power to hold companies (or doctors) accountable. The idea that this is "a joke" is simply big business/elite propaganda to trick Americans into giving up their rights and agreeing to jury award limits, forced arbitration, and other anti-consumer measures. Corporations HATE that there is a venue where citizens can level the playing field. They prefer simply paying congress to enact laws that further their interests without having to answer to courts.
 
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pdaholic

macrumors 68000
Jun 22, 2011
1,849
2,577
No, our system is the last place that citizens have any power to hold companies (or doctors) accountable. The idea that this is "a joke" is simply big business/elite propaganda to trick Americans into giving up their rights and agreeing to jury award limits, forced arbitration, and other anti-consumer measures. Corporations HATE that there is a venue where citizens can level the playing field. They prefer simply paying congress to enact laws that further their interests without having to answer to courts.
Had absolutely nothing to do with my post.
 

Statcoder

macrumors member
Dec 8, 2013
33
48
I’m a small developer but have been out of the business for at least five years. If you can verify that you were a paid by the App Store the website gives you an estimate of how much you might get from the settlement. I couldn’t give much of an estimate of how much I earned from the App Store during the period in question but the estimate they gave for my claim was around $2K. Given that I didn’t do anything to file the suit and didn’t even know there was one, I’m going to accept the settlement.
 

gsurf123

macrumors 6502
Jun 1, 2017
474
849
I missed the claim date by 3 days, still emailed them my claim but never heard a response.

The whole processes was such BS that if you miss the date you can never sue or have access to claims. The lawyers were supposed to be working for us but instead of automatically becoming eligible like every other class action they made a weird process where you had to opt in.

Honestly I thought it was a scam so ignored the letter they sent and then didn’t realize until I started reading articles about it.
How is your lack of ability to read, understand and execute. A quick search via Google would have given you all you need to know.
 

gsurf123

macrumors 6502
Jun 1, 2017
474
849
Understand, but the part where class members are bound to affirmative statements is troubling. If a developer who never filed a claim makes any public statement in the future contrary to the those statements, they can be sued for breaching the settlement.
Highly unlikely you would be sued.
 

ethanwa79

macrumors 6502
Sep 13, 2014
428
1,657
I’m a small developer but have been out of the business for at least five years. If you can verify that you were a paid by the App Store the website gives you an estimate of how much you might get from the settlement. I couldn’t give much of an estimate of how much I earned from the App Store during the period in question but the estimate they gave for my claim was around $2K. Given that I didn’t do anything to file the suit and didn’t even know there was one, I’m going to accept the settlement.

You filed your claim on time, correct?
 

ss2cire

macrumors 6502
Jun 18, 2008
338
462
Earth?
Great job, judge! 30+ % on contingency fee structure is ridiculous. This case probably did not take that much effort for plaintiff’s attorneys, either, considering it didn’t even get to real litigation stage to begin with.
Wait, what? It was turned into a class action lawsuit... so it got enough to get a decision... I'm unsure of what you're trying to say here. Clarification is much appreciated (and honestly not trying to be dense :) )
How would this need to be structured so that the lawers lose money taking on the case but the developers get less than two figures?
Somehow I don't think the lawyers are going to be starving with _any_ amount awarded for their services... even $20m would be _over paying_ them... but hey, it's America, lawyers make a ton of money (mostly for a good reason, they are able to use the laws to their advantage, or even manipulate it depending on your view). But hey, what do I know, I'm not a lawyer (don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to defend any lawyers!)

Disclaimer: I as a developer, I do qualify for a payment... on one level I wish the judge didn't ask this because I _guarantee_ it will delay the overall payments by at least 1-3 months... on the other hand, if the judge does indeed reward less to the lawyers, I _might_ get a slightly larger payment... but at this point who knows 🤷‍♂️
 
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wanha

macrumors 68000
Oct 30, 2020
1,513
4,383
Apple will always stand beside and support their developer community. Apple recognises the incredible talent we are blessed to have developing unique iOS/iPadOS experiences that we all love.
yeah I'm not sure Apple's actions over the past 10 years are really a testament to what you're saying about their attitude to developers...

Not saying it's all bad - because it's not - but Apple could and should have done so much more.
 
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cosmichobo

macrumors 6502a
May 4, 2006
964
586
How dare a judge try to take money away from lawyers! What right does she have to do that??

I mean - it threatens to disrupt the entire class action system! Why would lawyers choose to continue with class actions if they can't take their huge cut of the prize!?

Sheesh. Someone should go 2A on her. That's what 2A is all about, after all. Down with tyrants. DOWN! DOWN!

/end sarc
 
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thefourthpope

Contributor
Sep 8, 2007
1,397
742
DelMarVa
No, our system is the last place that citizens have any power to hold companies (or doctors) accountable. The idea that this is "a joke" is simply big business/elite propaganda to trick Americans into giving up their rights and agreeing to jury award limits, forced arbitration, and other anti-consumer measures. Corporations HATE that there is a venue where citizens can level the playing field. They prefer simply paying congress to enact laws that further their interests without having to answer to courts.
I think it's a joke that the low threshold on compensations seems to be 25%. Certainly that engenders greater numbers of frivolous class-action suits than would actually be warranted.

I think it's a joke that it would be IMPOSSIBLE for customers or citizens to actually hold companies like this accountable in any way for purchases or practices (besides "not buying from you again) without a swarm of legal experts.

Put those two realities together and we have created a social structure in which corporate accountability means legal experts seeking massive paydays money off of the difficulties of their fellow citizens.
 
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BootsWalking

macrumors 68020
Feb 1, 2014
2,270
14,203
Some lawyers truly want the good while others act always as blood sucking leeches. This case is the about the later and judge knows it and called them out on such a high commission.
Attorneys asking 27% commission for their legal services are blood-sucking leeches yet Apple asking 30% commission to host developers' apps for download is being unfairly targeted by the EU and other countries that hate capitalism?
 
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Statcoder

macrumors member
Dec 8, 2013
33
48
You filed your claim on time, correct?
I filed on time. The only notification I got was a post-card sized folded letter with the tear-away edge. It’s the typical class-action notification you get that says you are entitled to 1 free year of credit protection or something. I don’t recall getting any emails. I’m sure I got it because my address has not changed since I was an active developer.
 

djphat2000

macrumors 65816
Jun 30, 2012
1,091
1,130
How would this need to be structured so that the lawyers lose money taking on the case but the developers get less than two figures?
Lawyers should just get a flat fee for this. Not 25% based on the outcome (awarded amount).
But, that's my opinion only here. I think this is hysterical personally.
 

djphat2000

macrumors 65816
Jun 30, 2012
1,091
1,130
Why not? A ton of legal work goes into achieving a class action settlement, and while Apple's lawyers bill by the hour, plaintiffs' attorneys typically are paid on a contingency basis, meaning they take nothing at all if they lose. The advantage to the system is that class members do not have to pay up front for legal counsel, which of course greatly increases their ability to bring suits such as this one. Various courts considering the amount of legal hours spent have determined that a contingent fee of 25-40% may be appropriate, depending on circumstances. California courts have set that typical fee at 25%.
Don't get me wrong. I get how this works. I'm just questioning the premise to begin with. Don't want to pay Apple 30%? Fine, sue and pay 25% to the lawyers.
 
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WWPD

macrumors 6502a
Aug 21, 2015
819
3,114
Ten Forward
Do you seriously prefer lawyers over developers?

Without developers nothing gets, you know, developed...
My contribution to this thread is complete, farewell.
FC2j9GXXMAQiHIF.jpg
 
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Saturn007

macrumors 65816
Jul 18, 2010
1,468
1,348
Well, it IS a class action lawsuit…Generally you do have to opt out of them to be able to make your case outside of the settlement or if you don’t want to be considered part of the aggrieved class for whatever reason.

“Generally“ doesn't make it fair or right!

Huh, a judge who actually cares about class members receiving their payout? Get this woman on the Supreme Court.

Nah! All she's doing is considering a reduction from $27 million to 25 million! It shouldn’t depend on what that makes the payout, but whether the billing was legitimate.

By doing absolutely nothing, you took an affirmative action and state:
"expressly release any claim, contention, argument, or theory that the commissions charged by Apple on paid downloads or in-app purchases of digital content (including subscription) through the App Store are supracompetitive, inflated, or otherwise set at unlawful amounts."

Congratulations. If you ever complain or even theorize about such things, Apple can now sue you for breech.

Apple had the right to dump the settlement if more than 10% of developers choose to exclude themselves from the class. Yet doing nothing put you in the class. This is the biggest sign that Apple wanted to eliminate the number of developers who can complain in the future. It's really a muzzle in disguise.

That is a key problem. The terms are Draconian. “Doing nothing” should never be considered an “affirmative action”. Someone never gets the notice; someone doesn't understand it; etc. People should always retain their right to sue. We need to modify the way class action suits are done. They are an important instrument of justice, but often a joke — such as when you get a coupon for $50 off a future (expensive) airline ticket or dishwasher purchase as compensation for a pattern of malfeasance, overcharging, faulty products, etc. They often lock you in. At least, this is cash!

$27m is a ridiculous fee for $100m payout. I don’t care what your opinion is on the lawsuit… lawyers fees like this are just insane.

I can promise you $27m worth of work was not completed here. I mean the case didn’t even go to trial!!

I’m siding with the judge on this nonsense.

Ah, but the judge is only looking into whether it should be reduced to $25 million. If you can promise $27 million of work wasn't done, and have the needed evidence, I’ll wager that $25 million wasn't done, either.

By the way, to the observer who noted that this didn't even go to trial — much, often most of the work, is done BEFORE trial — so that doesn't undercut the compensation claim, legal payout, or the assertion of weeks and months of work by a team of lawyers.
 
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