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I don't have much sympathy with Psystar. If you're serious about business, you take proper legal advice before embarking on a venture such as this, especially when it concerns the business of a multi-billion company like Apple, which already has a substantial legal history of protecting its interests.

I thought one of the comments from Psystar was that they did have legal advice prior to starting this mess.

Might have been free from the same people who were for their defense, but with free legal advice, you do get what you pay for.

Unless it comes directly from a lawyer in their office, which clouds the issue ...
 
My dream would be to no longer have to use Apple's overpriced, under-specced, overheating products to run their excellent OS. But this lawsuit was stupid and destined to fail. I really don't think there's any fair legal route to force Apple to open its OS. But knowing our courts, ridiculous things can happen by activist judges. Regardless, the only truly fair thing is for Apple to choose to open its OS.

If its such a dream, have you bought a Pystar yet?
Of course not.

My dream would be to no longer have to read posts by people who hate the Apple platform so badly.

And who is opening it's OS fair to, you?
Don't Apple have any say in this?
 
with a Mac, you buy the OS with the machine, leaving you no other choice of what OS you want to initially put on your machine.
Except that the point of buying a Mac is to get OS X. There are manufacturers of specialty computers geared toward aesthetic appeal if you want an attractive machine, and if you don't want to use OS X but do want a Mac specifically, you can sell your copy of OS X to a Mac user who needs the restore disc (or keep it for when you resell the Mac, as it will increase resale value).

There's some merit to having Apple make Macs available without an OS installed, but it wouldn't reduce the retail price and there's no significant demand for it, so there's little point.
As always, I appreciate the patience and clarity. Thanks for showing up. What kept you?
Court, actually. It's been busy lately as the end of the year approaches and everyone tries to clear their pending calendars.
Can you explain why?
Because the case was dismissed.

While Psystar has 20 days to try again, revising their definition of market to get past the dismissal would basically eliminate the possibility of establishing market power. They can come up with a second, shall we say "creative", definition, but it will cost them thousands and gain them nothing when they're dismissed again, having wasted the court's time twice in the process. They could then file an appeal, but it won't be taken. There is effectively no chance of this case being litigated to a verdict.
 
Unfortunately I don't have an armchair lawyer's degree, but it seems that Apple is entirely within their rights to bar other companies from profiting with Apple's product.

That's Microsoft's business model; Microsoft chose to do it that way, and they are also totally within their rights.

When you create a product, you can do stuff like that. When you don't create a product a la Psystar, you can't say that not being allowed to profit from someone else' product is anti-competitive.
 
Yes. But what of Apple's case against Psystar? What actually happens next? Is that case heard? Does the judge make a ruling? Arbitration? Or settle out of court?

Unless there is a settlement, the case will go on as it normally would. This dismissal was a separate matter that Psystar brought against Apple in hopes of creating a valid defense. Apple basically said "No, that argument is not valid" and responded to the suit by pointing out that the suit has no basis in fact and should be dismissed. It has no real bearing on the status of Apple's case since its a separate legal matter. The only difference is that now, Psystar is not going to be able to legitimately argue that Apple's OS is being illegally sold.
 
Unless there is a settlement, the case will go on as it normally would. This dismissal was a separate matter that Psystar brought against Apple in hopes of creating a valid defense. Apple basically said "No, that argument is not valid" and responded to the suit by pointing out that the suit has no basis in fact and should be dismissed. It has no real bearing on the status of Apple's case since its a separate legal matter. The only difference is that now, Psystar is not going to be able to legitimately argue that Apple's OS is being illegally sold.

I'd expect Apple to ask for a summary judgement, since Psystar's defense has already been effectively demolished.
 
I'm surprised so many people voted positive. I just don't see that we're all better off with the pants sued off Psystar. It all seems rather immature and frivolous. Worst case scenario is they fade into oblivion all on their own, best case scenario they bring more people into the Mac fold.

However, if Apple no longer had a monopoly on hardware, their software prices would go way up. At the moment, the software is way cheaper than anything decent you'd get for PC. Jobs' math is stretching it, but it's still true to some extent. That's because Apple makes its ridiculous profits (which I would have hoped would have been passed along to the consumer in lower prices) off hardware sales. That, and sales of their $30 earphones when a shuffle with earphones costs $55. I'm sorry, there's no way those cost $30 to make. Apple is probably looking at at least a 1000% profit margin on those. Same goes for the adapters and so forth.

That's Microsoft's business model; Microsoft chose to do it that way, and they are also totally within their rights.

How so? Their operating system runs natively on every computer out there, except for PowerPC Macs and some specialized hardware like routers and so forth that run stripped-down Linux distros. Even PowerPC Macs can emulate Intel/Windows with no legal repercussions from Microsoft. Yes Vista is 5x the price, but it comes with no strings attached.
 
My dream would be to no longer have to use Apple's overpriced, under-specced, overheating products to run their excellent OS. But this lawsuit was stupid and destined to fail. I really don't think there's any fair legal route to force Apple to open its OS. But knowing our courts, ridiculous things can happen by activist judges. Regardless, the only truly fair thing is for Apple to choose to open its OS.

If I hear the term "activist judge" one more time, I'm going to puke.
 
Regardless, moving on.

I have a pile of hardware, I bought this piece of software in the Apple store, legally. Why shouldn't I be allowed to install it on the pile of hardware I have? Because it doesn't have an Apple sticker?

And performing such an installation would make me a moral heathen?

I don't think Psystar has a right to sell faux Macs, but I don't think Apple has a right to micromanage where I install software I legally purchased.

Nope, never said anything about morals... It is against the law. Fact. Done. End.

Oh, and when you bought the software -- you forget to mention that actually, if you intended to install it on non-Apple hardware, then NO you didn't buy it legally. As Apple has already stated that is for upgrade and / or replacement purposes only.

If you want to break the law, that is who you are. Good luck with that. Some of us have a greater respect for democracy than to just live by the laws we agree with and screw the others... This goes back to my original point, it is very selfish of you to pick and choose your laws, while the rest of us support the rights and decisions of others and the governments that protect them.

Since you bought it, you can do with it as you please?

Hmmmm, Suck on an aerosol can and when you wake up -- let me know if that breaks the law... After all, how can they micromanage how you use a product you bought and paid for.

Go buy the ingredients for meth-amphetamines, high yield explosives or anything else illicit and let us know if that's okay... because it's behind closed doors in the privacy of your home.

Just because the product is digital and it doesn't feel wrong, doesn't make it right.

Another example if you still don't get it.

Go buy some blank DVD's and duplicate a movie a few hundred times (in the privacy of your home). Hmmm... yeah, maybe you are right, nobody would care about that... lol
 
Oh, Matticus. How you love to not read entire sentences before commenting on them.

Once again, I said: if Apple was subject to anti-competition laws and Psystar was able to pass the argument that Apple's hardware is equivalent to generic hardware (and subsequently is irrelevant to the bundle) they might have a chance. I wasn't implying that there was any reliable probability of this happening, simply making a statement.

And regarding the legal implications of installing OS X on generic hardware in my own home, not being sold to anyone else, not damaging the Apple brand... it was an illustration of how "legal boundaries" set controversial standards for what is "right" and "wrong."

We've talked about this before. I know you're well-acquainted with the justice system... do you agree with every law and legal decision as ethically right?

Of course I'm aware that I'm violating the license agreement. I just don't feel like I'm doing anything ethically wrong. You may disagree and you have every right to consider me to be the scum of the Earth. Just see my point. I don't think I'm an unreasonable guy.

Apple's software impresses me, their hardware does not. I bought the software because Apple earned that sale. I bought the 3rd party hardware I did because those individual vendors deserved their sales. I believe this is the way a free market should work. The legal hoopla that you and your kind defend restrict genuine free markets and preserve entities and products that don't cater best to the customers' interests... just like these federal bail-outs preserve companies who can't survive and compete with the thriving companies who better address the markets' needs.

-Clive
 
Lower prices = less margin/revenue = less motivation to risk and innovate = decreased quality = complaints about price.

And let's not forget that tons of new customers at lower prices means much higher support costs which will only further erode margins. With higher margins and slow/steady customer growth, Apple can afford to offer better support. I'd much rather deal with AppleCare or the Apple Store any day over the support department at Best Buy or some ghastly PC telephone support outsourced to who the heck knows where. If Apple suddenly came out with a dirt cheap Mac aimed purely at gaining market share, it would prove a costly - and stupid - move.

I also said that I can see where they could gain from selling OS X separately, and was leading to where they could sell a Mac barebones. If other PC Clones could do that, Apple could do that as well.

I also said that I can see where they could gain from selling OS X separately, and was leading to where they could sell a Mac barebones. If other PC Clones could do that, Apple could do that as well.

Apple will NOT gain.

Apple makes money selling hardware. Clones = fewer hardware sales. You might argue that these clones will bring new customers to Apple. But just who do you think is going to SUPPORT the MacOS running on these machines? The clone makers? Yeah right. And what happens when the clone buyers come to the Apple Store for help? Is Apple obligated to assist them despite their not having purchased an Apple computer?

Apple doesn't want to sell a barebones product. Geez. They are BMW, not Tata. What incentive could Apple possibly have for selling a no-margin product? Grow market share for the sake of growing it? Again, it goes back to SUPPORT. A good customer experience is all part of the package. Apple does a great job, all things considered, with their stores. A barebones Mac would only deplete resources. There's no win in it for Apple. Never will be.

Get over it. You want a Mac, PAY FOR A MAC. Or got the Hackintosh route. Apple couldn't care less about homebrew Macs, so long as you're not making a business out of it.
 
Nope, never said anything about morals... It is against the law. Fact. Done. End.

Oh, and when you bought the software -- you forget to mention that actually, if you intended to install it on non-Apple hardware, then NO you didn't buy it legally. As Apple has already stated that is for upgrade and / or replacement purposes only.

If you want to break the law, that is who you are. Good luck with that. Some of us have a greater respect for democracy than to just live by the laws we agree with and screw the others... This goes back to my original point, it is very selfish of you to pick and choose your laws, while the rest of us support the rights and decisions of others and the governments that protect them.

Since you bought it, you can do with it as you please?

Hmmmm, Suck on an aerosol can and when you wake up -- let me know if that breaks the law... After all, how can they micromanage how you use a product you bought and paid for.

Go buy the ingredients for meth-amphetamines, high yield explosives or anything else illicit and let us know if that's okay... because it's behind closed doors in the privacy of your home.

Just because the product is digital and it doesn't feel wrong, doesn't make it right.

Another example if you still don't get it.

Go buy some blank DVD's and duplicate a movie a few hundred times (in the privacy of your home). Hmmm... yeah, maybe you are right, nobody would care about that... lol

There's a difference between building a weapon and using it... There's a difference between making drugs and using/selling drugs... There's a difference between duplicating a DVD once for personal use, and multiple times to sell them on eBay.

By the way, duplicating DVDs for personal backups has been deemed LEGAL under fair use so long as all duplicate copies are destroyed if the original disc is ever transferred to a new owner. The illegality is breaking the encryption found on movies. Copying the data that the encryption protects is legal, however. Screwiest system ever...

Anyway, so long as you fail to see the point I'm trying to raise, there's no purpose in me arguing. In your world, as long as something is a law, it's ethically right, and if it's not, it's wrong. I suppose that means if you had lived before the US Civil War you would've thought owning slaves was ethically right too... Alas, these are the side-effects of always agreeing with what "law" dictates.

So which is it? Do you believe that slavery was at one point ethically right, or is there the slightest possibility that there might be some errors in our current system?

Building a hackintosh might not be legal, but that doesn't make it ethically wrong, which your original rant was implying.

-Clive
 
Windows systems are cheaper, and are terrible.

Apple systems are better and more expensive.

Do you really not see the correlation? You get what you pay for!

This is not true, especially if you build your own system, you can get high quality parts and build a nice mid to high range Windows system. I am a lifelong Mac head, but I have also built my own PC for gaming, and I know that you can build yourself a very nice system. Windows itself, on the other hand, can be difficult to use.
 
Market share is obviously growing....

....just look at the VARIETY of Mac users we have posting here!

Some comments, if I may:

Psystar might be a front - but if so, they shoulda hired a better legal team.

If a guy or gal wants to buy OSX and install it quietly, in his/her own home, on a stack of PC parts, should we really be offended?
It might be 'illegal', but its hardly immoral. He/she might come up with a new hybrid system that could change the world - Darwin rules on this one, I feel.

Overpriced is a nonsense - everybody knows that. The market, warts and all, rules this one.

Do Apple need a 'shake-up'? Sure they do - we ALL do.
Just dont hold your breath waiting for it to actually happen...

If you think Apple are too pricey, get a Mac mini, or buy a used box, and quit yer whinin'.
Or join the OS X hacker crowd, if you can stand the pressure of being an OUTLAW. Gasp!

An entertaining thread.
Post of the day was obviously Matticus008's legal slash job.

There's a difference between building a weapon and using it... There's a difference between making drugs and using/selling drugs... There's a difference between duplicating a DVD once for personal use, and multiple times to sell them on eBay.

By the way, duplicating DVDs for personal backups has been deemed LEGAL under fair use so long as all duplicate copies are destroyed if the original disc is ever transferred to a new owner. The illegality is breaking the encryption found on movies. Copying the data that the encryption protects is legal, however. Screwiest system ever...

Anyway, so long as you fail to see the point I'm trying to raise, there's no purpose in me arguing. In your world, as long as something is a law, it's ethically right, and if it's not, it's wrong. I suppose that means if you had lived before the US Civil War you would've thought owning slaves was ethically right too... Alas, these are the side-effects of always agreeing with what "law" dictates.

So which is it? Do you believe that slavery was at one point ethically right, or is there the slightest possibility that there might be some errors in our current system?

Building a hackintosh might not be legal, but that doesn't make it ethically wrong, which your original rant was implying.

-Clive

Agreed. The Law is NOT moral or ethical, its mostly there to protect property.

I cant see Apple being bothered about a few guys building a Hackintosh.
They just didnt like a company setting up to make a profit from it.
 
Yet my question still stands. Name me one machine/architecture outside of Macs, that OS X runs on. I can run Linux on an XBox. I can run Linux on a PS2, and PS3. I can run Linux on a Symbian type device. As you said, I can run Linux on a Mac. I can bloody well run Linux on my Apple II. I can run another OS on another machine if I choose to - and legally. Can you run OS X on something else outside of a Mac?

I'm still waiting for an answer.

XBOX/OS is a proprietary OS. PS3 /OS is a proprietary OS. i5/OS is a proprietary OS. This is not about installing Linux which is not proprietary IP. My point is that if you believe you should be able to install OSX on any hardware you want, then you should then be venting anger at the other packaged-system vendors I just mentioned above that tie their OS to their hardware. For some reason, everyone considers Apple a separate player than everyone else.

Go ahead and install the XBOX/OS on commodity hardware, open a business to sell that machine and see if Microsoft doesn't drop a hammer right on your shop. It's not any different.

My apologies though for implying a personal attack on your opinion. No disrespect was intended.
 
Yes. But what of Apple's case against Psystar? What actually happens next? Is that case heard? Does the judge make a ruling? Arbitration? Or settle out of court?
As someone else said, it continues. Settlement at this point would not be characteristic of Apple, especially given how uppity Psystar has been about the whole thing.
I'd expect Apple to ask for a summary judgement, since Psystar's defense has already been effectively demolished.
Not yet. Procedurally, given the more complex and extensive nature of Apple's direct and contributory claims, summary judgment is premature. PSJ is an option, but Apple's case does not end here if they want to prevail on all claims. I have no doubt that Apple will eventually file an MSJ, but the next move is probably some post-decision discovery.
Oh, Matticus. How you love to not read entire sentences before commenting on them.
On the contrary: "Well, the counterclaim was completely misdirected. If they are to have any chance at having a case at all, they need to pursue anticompetitive "tying" arguments."

How is it misdirected of them to have pursued the very strategy you suggest? Your "entire sentences" are mutually exclusive. You then move on with the faulty premise that antitrust laws don't apply to Apple, and to say "just saying that if there was any chance for Psystar to make a case was to use a tying argument"--which is exactly what they did.
And regarding the legal implications of installing OS X on generic hardware in my own home, not being sold to anyone else, not damaging the Apple brand... it was an illustration of how "legal boundaries" set controversial standards for what is "right" and "wrong."
No it isn't. It's an example of someone disregarding the limits of their rights in favor of what they'd rather do and are willing to do because they can rely on not getting caught. What's right is respecting the limits of a work that does not belong to you, even though you don't approve of the limits.

Anything else is simply rationalizing.
do you agree with every law and legal decision as ethically right?
Yes. By definition. That is not to say there aren't cases where the alternative is also ethically right, because there are always competing ethical interests, or that there aren't bad decisions made by judges. What you're talking about, though, is morality, and it's a pointless quagmire because it's entirely individual.

It simply does not matter what you personally believe to be morally justifying your actions. You have no right to OS X, moral, ethical, legal, or otherwise.
Of course I'm aware that I'm violating the license agreement. I just don't feel like I'm doing anything ethically wrong.
I'm sorry, but that's simply not possible. Do you place value on the integrity of your word as a person? On the rule of law? Do you expect to be able to control that which is yours and not to have it taken by someone not entitled to it who thinks they could make better use of it? You are doing many things ethically wrong. It's wrong and you know it's wrong. I'd have more respect if you simply admitted it.

People do things they know are wrong. I don't personally have a problem with the homebrew community, but people who claim they aren't doing anything wrong are simply liars. I exceed the speed limit on a daily basis. I fully admit that it is wrong to do so, and if I get pulled over, I accept the consequences. I don't pretend otherwise or claim that my right to do as I please in my vehicle is being taken. I have no such right on public roads or on private roads belonging to someone else.

It is not yours to take. Period.
Just see my point. I don't think I'm an unreasonable guy.
I see your point. It's just utterly bogus. You have the audacity to claim you're taking the "high road" in a situation involving a consumer product, of all things. It's obscene.
The legal hoopla that you and your kind defend restrict genuine free markets
That's the craziest part of your argument right there. The free market requires that sellers have complete control of what they choose to sell. What you are suggesting is the exact opposite--the non-market-based acquisition of rights and artificial restrictions on the freedom to contract and on the autonomy of ownership.

Edit: For the record, I don't believe the mythical "free market" is a virtue unto itself. But you seem to, all while asking to regulate and restrict a "genuine free market".
 
And regarding the legal implications of installing OS X on generic hardware in my own home, not being sold to anyone else, not damaging the Apple brand... it was an illustration of how "legal boundaries" set controversial standards for what is "right" and "wrong."

We've talked about this before. I know you're well-acquainted with the justice system... do you agree with every law and legal decision as ethically right?

Of course I'm aware that I'm violating the license agreement. I just don't feel like I'm doing anything ethically wrong. You may disagree and you have every right to consider me to be the scum of the Earth. Just see my point. I don't think I'm an unreasonable guy.
-Clive

But you are harming someone. That someone is Apple. You are STEALING from Apple when you install OS X on another system other than an Apple branded machine. Why? Because you didn't buy their hardware, which is a requirement - thus you are a thief and stole anywhere from ~$500 to $5000 or more (I'll let you choose the model you are stealing!).

Again, it doesn't matter if you think the law is ethical or not, it is the law of the land and you abide by it or do something to change it. Breaking the law for what ever reason, is still just that - breaking the law.

If you truly have a problem with the law, jump on Facebook with as many of your kind as you can wrangle up, set a date, grab a picket sign and run around Cupertino...

We don't have to see your point, just like I could care less why some thief steals cars or some scum sells drugs or some suit embezzles a few million.

I personally think there is way too much tolerance in this world. I'd love to go back 25 years when we didn't have to be so sensitive to all of these whiners.

Software pirates always have some lame reason and they just miff me off to no end. Mostly cause they are just cheap little rats grabbing at anything they can get their little mitts on.
 
There's a difference between building a weapon and using it... There's a difference between making drugs and using/selling drugs... There's a difference between duplicating a DVD once for personal use, and multiple times to sell them on eBay.

I suppose that means if you had lived before the US Civil War you would've thought owning slaves was ethically right too... Alas, these are the side-effects of always agreeing with what "law" dictates.

So which is it? Do you believe that slavery was at one point ethically right, or is there the slightest possibility that there might be some errors in our current system?

-Clive

I just get a kick out of the spin... it's great!

I never said anything about selling, distributing or using those items. The simple fact was that your little comment on doing things in the privacy of your own home is completely absurd.

Oh my friend, you are so out of touch here. Last time I grabbed a history book, it wasn't a requirement or a law enforcing me to own a slave.

a) I wouldn't have owned a slave.
b) I would have been proud to stand against the idea of slavery.
c) There are errors in our current system, and there are ways to change them -- other than just selfishly breaking them.
d) You can hardly compare the era of slavery to our "current system"

I (not sure where everyone else is) live in a democracy where people have the right to be stupid, and I see Psystar as being a bunch of rather silly people for even attempting this craziness. They've learned their lesson.
 
The whole "apple is a monopoly" argument (along with similar "anticompetitive" arguments) has always been idiotic, and it just looks that much more idiotic now.

What was even more idiotic was how Psystar tried to support its "apple is a monopoly" argument. They claimed that Apple's huge advertising campaign proves that Apple is a monopoly. Judge Alsup noted that if Apple were actually a monopoly, then such an advertising campaign would be wasted money, and it smelled more like an attempt to "lure customers away from competitors" :rolleyes:

So Psystar was even beaten by their own arguments. And since this all happened before any discovery in the court case, there are very few factual arguments that the judge can use, but he _can_ use anything the lawyers claim, like this gem.

Once again, I said: if Apple was subject to anti-competition laws and Psystar was able to pass the argument that Apple's hardware is equivalent to generic hardware (and subsequently is irrelevant to the bundle) they might have a chance. I wasn't implying that there was any reliable probability of this happening, simply making a statement.

The fact that Apple's hardware is reasonably compatible to a generic PC works actually against Psystar. If Psystar had a computer that could _only_ run MacOS X and nothing else, they could have tried to make claims similar to the Digidyne case (although I think it wouldn't fly anymore; today a judge would likely rule that building a computer that needs a competitor's OS that the competitor doesn't want to sell is just a stupid thing to do), but since those Psystar machines can run Windows or Linux or could be made to run them, that point is lost.

That's interesting though. Apple is not considered anti-competitive because of their relatively small market share, but what if they reach over 50% market share one day (which they will)? Will they have to open up their OS for everyone?

Not sure. In one of its filings Apple quoted a case against Xerox that Xerox won. Xerox invented the xerox photocopying process (there's a proper name for it, but you know what I mean) and patented it, and that process did beat everything else in the market, turning Xerox into a monopoly in the photocopier market. A company sued to force Xerox to license its patents. The court decided that it was up to Xerox to license or not license their patents, even though those patents helped them to uphold a monopoly. And in the Xerox case we are not talking about just 50%.

In other words, the judge gave the typical American legal ********, protecting the interests of a big corporation instead of the interests of consumers and an OPEN market.

Those Psystar people should relocate to Europe if they want a fair trial.

Please check out the article about "Vertragsfreiheit" on the german wikipedia. What you claim is a nasty american streak protecting big corporations is a central point in German contract law as well. The same case in Germany would have ended up in exactly the same way. Relevant here is "Abschlussfreiheit" (the right to decide whether to enter into a contract or not) and "Partnerwahlfreiheit" (the right to decide with which partner to enter a contract). So not only could Apple not be forced to license MacOS X to anyone, they could most definitely not be forced to license it to Psystar in particular.

In addition, how many "gebührenpflichtige Abmahnungen" at 100 Euro a shot do you think Psystar would have received in Germany?

There certainly are enough countries where this specific paragraph of the Apple EULA ("only on an Apple-labeled computer") actually violates laws and where Apple wouldn't stand a chance with their claims and would not be "entitled to do so".

Tell me one such country.

In Germany, for example, Psystar would have long been closed down because what it does constitutes "unfair competition" (unlauterer Wettbewerb).

There is a contradiction in Apple's position on this, in that they encourage the installation of non-Apple OS's on their computers, they even created Boot Camp to make it easy. So on the one hand they want everyone to be able to install non-Apple OS's on their computers but on the other they don't want anyone to install their OS on a non-Apple computer.

Apple came to the conclusion (and you would come to the same conclusion if you thought about it for a bit), that allowing other operating systems to be installed on Macs is beneficial for Apple's business, while allowing MacOS X to be installed on computers that are not Macs is bad for Apple's business. So Apple chose what is most profitable for the company, as one would expect. And unless you can point out that Microsoft or the various Linux distributors don't want you to install their software on a Macintosh, there is nothing wrong with this.

it may be perfectly legal for Apple to tie OS X to its hardware, but is it fair? Without the open source community, OS X would not be what it is today, yet Apple only used the community for as much as they could without opening the OS.

What has open source got to do with this? Psystar is even ripping off the x86 community by illegally using their EFI emulation. MacOS X is the result of paying $400,000,000 for NeXT and seven years of massive software development inside Apple.

The biggest example how "open source" Apple is is the fact that Nokia uses huge amounts of Apple-written source code for the mobile phone browsers, available under an open source license. So Apple is actually supporting direct competitors because sometimes that is what "open source" implies.

I can't understand how you can throw a bunch of rip-off merchants and the open source community into one pot. The Open Source community takes copyright laws very serious; that is what Open Source is based on.
 
Of course I'm aware that I'm violating the license agreement. I just don't feel like I'm doing anything ethically wrong.




I'm sorry, but that's simply not possible. Do you place value on the integrity of your word as a person? On the rule of law? Do you expect to be able to control that which is yours and not to have it taken by someone not entitled to it who thinks they could make better use of it? You are doing many things ethically wrong. It's wrong and you know it's wrong. I'd have more respect if you simply admitted it.

People do things they know are wrong. I don't personally have a problem with the homebrew community, but people who claim they aren't doing anything wrong are simply liars. I exceed the speed limit on a daily basis. I fully admit that it is wrong to do so, and if I get pulled over, I accept the consequences. I don't pretend otherwise or claim that my right to do as I please in my vehicle is being taken. I have no such right on public roads or on private roads belonging to someone else.

It is not yours to take. Period.

It seems to me that you have no problem with people doing 'wrong' e.g. your speeding, but that it's ok if the person admits that it's wrong / not moral.

Which is a bit of a paradox - you're saying it's ok to do wrong, AS LONG as you realise you are doing so, and are happy to be punished for it.

But the point here is that the OP doesn't think he's doing wrong, but you're looking at it in a black and white "It's the law so it MUST be wrong and you MUST admit it or you're a liar and I have no respect for you".

Not every law is a good law or right or wrong because it is the law.

Having said that, I'm personally happy that Psystar are struggling because I personally like things how they are - OS X on nothing but nice shiny Apple hardware.

This argument always seems to come back to price, but different brands charge different prices and always will do. I don't expect Louis Vitton to start selling cheap clothes just because I can get a similar garmant for a quarter of the price elsewhere.
 
It means that all the screwballs who posted in these forums about how Psystar had a case and how Apple was a monopoly unto itself (go figure) and how they wished Psystar would win... it means that all these "experts" now have so much egg on their faces that they look like omlets.:D:p;)

I think one thing that Apple might ask for in discovery would be a complete list of all Psystar employees who have accounts on sites like MacRumors and a complete list of the screen names being used. Obviously the same thing for Apple employees, to be fair.
 
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