Judge Grills Tim Cook on App Store Policies as End of of Epic Games v. Apple Trial Approaches

[mihirdelirious]

For most of the case Apple was beating Epic at its own game (literally & figuratively).
But today, to everyone's horror Judge YGR pulled out her xbox controller & went full Doom Eternal against Tim Apple.

 

[now i see it]

I'll choose mobile syrup over frozen syrup every time

 

[blazerunner]

The judge sounded like a lawyer for Epic at the tail end of this.

Would you make this same statement if you weren't a fan of Apple?

 

[rjohnstone]

It certainly seems the judge is anti apple.

Judge Rogers has presided over several Apple cases in the past that were ruled in Apple's favor.
To call her biased would be dismissive of her past.

 

[Kabeyun]

I’m not sure I understand this business about competition within the App Store. It seems to me that the real issue is competition between the Apple ecosystem and the Android ecosystem.

 

[twintin]

That's a judge's job.

I thought it was to interpret the laws and see if any was broken.

 

[alex2792]

Apple should say that they will just disable the App Store if they cannot “make a profit.”

THIS IS CAPITALISM! Apple is not doing charity work for poor developers. Apple PROVIDED A WAY TO MAKE MONEY! They CHOSE to make an app.

And watch iOS market share plunge to 0.000001% (Tim’s immediate family and Apple faithful who ODed on koolaid).

 

[EatinPonies]

Holy crap - where is the obvious mention in court of the fact that nobody is forcing anybody to *anything*. Nobody *has to* buy an iPhone. No developer *has to* develop for this platform. The truth is: the products that Apple makes are quality products that consumers want.

Seriously...
To the consumer: if you're not happy with it, then go buy a different product.
To the developer: if you're not happy with it, then avoid the platform.
To both consumer and developer: if your case/perspective has merit, the consumers will speak with where they put their dollars.

 

[Kkspire]

I was listening. She is incredibly biased. She was literally like “I don’t pay for my Wells Fargo app” he was like, yeah, they aren’t asking you to make a payment for the service. She was like well why would I pay for a game?!?! Tim’s silence was…. Oh dear… then “we’ll, because they are charging for it” lol. Judge said well what options to do I have as a consumer… he basically said, well you can buy something else? Lol!

 

[Kabeyun]

Would you make this same statement if you weren't a fan of Apple?

In other words, you’re saying that it’s not possible to detect bias unless one is also biased. Now do you see how incorrect that sounds?

 

[blazerunner]

That's a judge's job.

It's almost as if people just learned of the word 'judge' LOL

 

[evertjr]

I have a feeling she's gonna rule Apple to allow developers to mention other payment options or maybe even link users to it.

 

[dannyyankou]

I've brought up this example before, but if they're going to come down on Apple for this, then come down on every company that has "walled gardens". Come down on auto manufacturers that only allow you to buy replacement parts directly from them, where buying third party parts could void your warranty. Or really any company with similar policies to that.

I’m not taking sides one way or the other, but I’m saying be consistent.

 

[Wildkraut]

It certainly seems the judge is anti apple.

Nope she is just pro consumer. ❤️

 

[Scipster]

Same as some others said. Why would a judge be allowed to ask a lot of questions?

It's just the way it works, especially in a bench trial. In this case, the judge is doing her job as the sole decider of fact and law. She grilled Epic just a few weeks ago, and before that at the preliminary hearings. She has to get all the facts from all sides. It doesn't mean she will rule one way or the other.

"The authority of the judge to question witnesses is also well established. McCormick §8, pp. 12–13; Maguire, Weinstein, et al., Cases on Evidence 737–739 (5th ed. 1965); 3 Wigmore §784."

Rule 614. Court’s Calling or Examining a Witness

www.law.cornell.edu

"During bench trials, a judge may stop an attorney mid-examination of a witness to ask the witness a question. A judge may even direct you to move on from a point that you had every intention of emphasizing with a little theatricality. Again, if the judge requests that you move on, listen to the judge."

The Ins and Outs of a Bench Trial: Tips for Success

Although every case presents its own set of unique facts and challenges, there are ways to ensure that you have positioned yourself for victory.

www.americanbar.org

 

[alex2792]

Holy crap - where is the obvious mention of the fact that nobody is forcing anybody to *anything*. Nobody *has to* buy an iPhone. No developer *has to* develop for this platform. The truth is: the products that Apple makes are quality products that consumers want.

Seriously...
To the consumer: if you're not happy with it, then go buy a different product.
To the developer: if you're not happy with it, then avoid the platform.
To both consumer and developer: if your case/perspective has merit, the consumers will speak with where they put their dollars.

What rock have you been living under bro? Smartphones are pretty much essential to a modern society and Apple commands at least a 50% market share in the US and other developed nations. Try launching a tech startup without an iPhone app and you’ll get laughed out of the room by investors.

 

[jonblatho]

I did not know the Judge could take sides?

It’s a bench trial. Her job is to, at the end of the trial, take a side.

 

[no_idea]

I thought this was a jury trial…since when are judges allowed to act as plaintiff lawyers?

 

[alex2792]

I've brought up this example before, but if they're going to come down on Apple for this, then come down on every company that has "walled gardens". Come down on auto manufacturers that only allow you to buy replacement parts directly from them, where buying third party parts could void your warranty. Or really any company with similar policies to that.

Which would benefit consumers so I’m all for it.

 

[EatinPonies]

What rock have you been living under bro? Smartphones are pretty much essential to a modern society and Apple commands at least a 50% market share in the US and other developed nations. Try launching a tech startup without an iPhone app and you’ll get laughed out of the room by investors.

So iPhones are the only game in town, then? /s

Vote with your wallet.

 

[Ebarella]

Holy crap - where is the obvious mention in court of the fact that nobody is forcing anybody to *anything*. Nobody *has to* buy an iPhone. No developer *has to* develop for this platform. The truth is: the products that Apple makes are quality products that consumers want.

Seriously...
To the consumer: if you're not happy with it, then go buy a different product.
To the developer: if you're not happy with it, then avoid the platform.
To both consumer and developer: if your case/perspective has merit, the consumers will speak with where they put their dollars.

Nobody had to install Windows in the 90's too, you know, you could buy a Mac.

 

[RedTheReader]

I did not know the Judge could take sides?

How can you miss the fact that a judge’s job is to come to a conclusion in favor of one side and then rule on it? It’s literally in the title: they judge. No, really.

 

[mihirdelirious]

Yeah, the whole argument is pointless... If there was no App Store, where would Epic and the other Whiners be at this time?

Without Apple's App Store, Epic would still be one of the greatest & most successful video game developers. They've made some of the most iconic game franchises including Unreal Tournament, Gears of War, BulletStorm, etc.
Epic would still have Unreal Engine which is probably the best game engines available & used by games like Bioshock, Senua, Batman Arkham, Mass Effect, Borderlands etc.
Tim Sweeney would still be known as one of the top visionaries & programmers in the industry along the likes of John Carmack.

 

[EatinPonies]

Nobody had to install Windows in the 90's too, you know, you could buy a Mac.

You're absolutely right, but Windows market share soared because it was the better product. I'm not sure which argument you're making...? Once Apple improved their product, they started gaining adoption, which drove demand, which drove platform adoption, which drove developers to recognize it as a viable direction, which further drove consumers to consider the platform... It's a cycle.

 

[RedTheReader]

It certainly seems the judge is anti apple.

It’s amazing… this is the same crowd who was laughing at Epic when this same judge denied their requests in the fall of 2020. But now, after 3 weeks of actually listening to everyone’s arguments, she must be “bIaSeD,” right? She couldn’t have, you know, come to an educated conclusion that just so happens to conflict with yours?

Edit: Accidentally wrote “2021” instead of “2020”